Credits unpooled?

[huey578]

No flaming, I don't feel that accomplishes anything on either side of the issue. I do have a question though, if Disney does not have a problem with it, why the new wording on the online brochure which some are obviously choosing to ignore?

I don't think the wording can be any clearer, but I guess for some strong arm enforcement will have to be next.

I agree with you Sammie

 

[naz022292]

After reading this board for months w/out subscribing - this one got me... It has been said somewhere on this board that even though reciepts don't seperate credits, the resorts can check on it and see the breakdown of what you used- therefore, it appears that they do have some capacity to track what you used. Aren't you afraid that you will go through 1/2 your trip using adult credits for your children - then you will have the bad luck of disney spliting them and you will be left with only child credits for the rest of the trip? You really would have a hard defense since the brochure is so clear??

 

[bstnsprts]

I'd hate to be the store owner anytime you use a self service check out lane. I'd hate to be a store owner who decided they could trust you in their small store when they have to take a bathroom break. By your definition you have permission to help yourself.

You no longer have Disney's permission to use child "entitlements" to obtain adult meals. Just read the the last page of the new brochure. The fact that Disney isn't physically stopping you doesn't mean you have permission.

Yes, you would hate to be that store owner if you did not keep up the maintenance of your POS systems. When items are marked, signed or tagged wrong it is the stores responsibility, not the consumer. You can have all the brochures and signs you want saying item X is $99.95, but when I get to the register and your POS system has the item at $49.95, guess what I'm paying for it. No matter what the new brochure says, Disney's systems are still not separating child and adult credits. The consumer does not have the responsibility to do that themselves. Nobody still pooling credits is walking out of a TS or CS without paying. If I have two "kids credits" left on my last night and I present my card for payment for two adult TS and it is accepted as payment by Disney, they have more than given me permission to use the plan that way. There is no legal responsibility on the consumer as long as Disney continues to pool the credits and redeem them the same way. When DDP receipts start reading 12ATS 12CTS 12ACS 12ATS 12S 12S, I will wholeheartedly agree with you. As I said before, it's up to Disney to fix the "loophole", until then there is nothing illegal in continuing to pool credits.

 

[Sammie]

After reading this board for months w/out subscribing - this one got me... It has been said somewhere on this board that even though reciepts don't seperate credits, the resorts can check on it and see the breakdown of what you used- therefore, it appears that they do have some capacity to track what you used. Aren't you afraid that you will go through 1/2 your trip using adult credits for your children - then you will have the bad luck of disney spliting them and you will be left with only child credits for the rest of the trip? You really would have a hard defense since the brochure is so clear??

Maybe since it seems some have selective amnesia, in that they book a plan for 2 adults and 2 children for 4 nights and suddenly they can't remember they have 8 TS adult entitlements and 8 TS children entitlements and the same for CS meals that when they check out if they have received more than they paid for, Disney can bill them for the rest.

 

[Sammie]

Yes, you would hate to be that store owner if you did not keep up the maintenance of your POS systems. When items are marked, signed or tagged wrong it is the stores responsibility, not the consumer. You can have all the brochures and signs you want saying item X is $99.95, but when I get to the register and your POS system has the item at $49.95, guess what I'm paying for it. No matter what the new brochure says, Disney's systems are still not separating child and adult credits. The consumer does not have the responsibility to do that themselves. Nobody still pooling credits is walking out of a TS or CS without paying. If I have two "kids credits" left on my last night and I present my card for payment for two adult TS and it is accepted as payment by Disney, they have more than given me permission to use the plan that way. There is no legal responsibility on the consumer as long as Disney continues to pool the credits and redeem them the same way. When DDP receipts start reading 12ATS 12CTS 12ACS 12ATS 12S 12S, I will wholeheartedly agree with you. As I said before, it's up to Disney to fix the "loophole", until then there is nothing illegal in continuing to pool credits.

Ok, I finally see where you are coming from. Basically you are saying the consumer has no responsiblity to be honest. I once went to Target to purchase a mini stereo system that was priced at the shelf for $99. When I went to check out and the cashier scanned it, it came up 99 cents for a bag of peanuts, she did it several times.

She said you owe me 99 cents I guess. I said no I am afraid not, I owe you 99 dollars plus tax and if you can't correct the scan I suggest you call your manager, as I am sure he can. Needless to say she asked me not to tell her manager she had offered it to me for 99 cents.

I will take honesty over money anyday.

 

[bstnsprts]

No flaming, I don't feel that accomplishes anything on either side of the issue. I do have a question though, if Disney does not have a problem with it, why the new wording on the online brochure which some are obviously choosing to ignore?

I don't think the wording can be any clearer, but I guess for some strong arm enforcement will have to be next.

My issue isn't with whether or not Disney has a problem with it. Disney can't put one thing in a brochure and then give you pooled credits at check in and show pooled credits on receipts after each use. It's their responsibility to fix the problem and separate the credits. As long as their systems keep accepting these credits as pooled, no one is doing anything wrong using them that way whether Disney is ok with it or not.

 

[naz022292]

We just got back from our trip today (6/22 to 7/2). The card itself distinguishes 2A and 2C (2 adults and 2 children) but the receipts we've gotten only state the number of TS (table service) or CS (counter service) meals left or snack credits left. It is not broken down on the receipt. However, the server can print out your total credits used. I know this because my sister was surprised at her last dinner with not having enough table service credits (her son was 2 years old and not included on the Dining Plan but was charged a "child" table service credit earlier in the week instead of being considered an "infant").

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I don't know how to quote something from a different (thread?). My point was that they may currently be working on a system and now tracking them seperately. They may suddenly update the receipt systems with the correct split - leaving some people with a problem. Isn't anyone worried that they will have to pay for expensive adult meals late in the trip because they took advantage of what they thought to be a "loop hole" and used up their adult credits?

Not that this is an issue that would keep me up at night, but as far as your figuring about a store ringing something up cheaper than it actually should be, that is a matter of integrity. I would not leave the store without addressing the error- it isn't worth the money I save to have the store owner or clerk know that I would intentionally take advantage of a mistake, or their lack of a system to keep me honest, If you left your wallet in the ladies room - wouldn't you want someone to return it to you?

 

[Pedler]

Yes, you would hate to be that store owner if you did not keep up the maintenance of your POS systems. When items are marked, signed or tagged wrong it is the stores responsibility, not the consumer. You can have all the brochures and signs you want saying item X is $99.95, but when I get to the register and your POS system has the item at $49.95, guess what I'm paying for it. No matter what the new brochure says, Disney's systems are still not separating child and adult credits. The consumer does not have the responsibility to do that themselves. Nobody still pooling credits is walking out of a TS or CS without paying. If I have two "kids credits" left on my last night and I present my card for payment for two adult TS and it is accepted as payment by Disney, they have more than given me permission to use the plan that way. There is no legal responsibility on the consumer as long as Disney continues to pool the credits and redeem them the same way. When DDP receipts start reading 12ATS 12CTS 12ACS 12ATS 12S 12S, I will wholeheartedly agree with you. As I said before, it's up to Disney to fix the "loophole", until then there is nothing illegal in continuing to pool credits.

The better analogy would be going to the movies with kids just past the cut off age for kid priced tickets. Under your methodology it would be OK to lie about the kids ages and purchase them kids price tickets if the theater didn't attempt to verify thier age. In essence you are doing the same thing, purchasing an adult meal with a kids credit. In the movie analogy you are paying a kids price for someone that should clearly be an adult.

As FYI prior to the new brochure I honestly felt people should pool credits and use them anyway they want. And people who did that before the new brochure were, in my view, doing nothing wrong. Now the new brochure explicitly in no uncertain terms says that this is not an acceptable use of credits. Just because they do not have an enforcement mechanism or are not going to arrest someone for this type of behavior doesn't make it OK.

It has become clear that there were some people, such as LewisC and myself among others, that honestly felt that under the DDP before the new brochure came out this was an allowable use. Some of us were strong defenders of using the plan in this manner. Then Disney came out and explicitly defined this use of credits as being not allowed. Folk like LewisC and myself (who did use the plan in the manner by the way) updated our view of how the plan should be used based on the change in rules that Disney made. But it is also clear that there were some people looking for any ratinalization they could to scam some money from Disney. Now that Disney has explicitly changed the brochure to say this isn't allowed the line of thinking is that if they don't put in a strong enforcement mechanism then it is OK to do whatever they want. Under this model then anyone with kids just over the cut off age for admission discounts should feel free to lie about thier kids age to get a discount because Disney doesn't check birth certificates. Using refillable mugs from previous trips where it was explicitly stated that they were for the duration only is OK because Disney doesn't have people monitoring the refill stations or doesn't enforce the policy.

I don't have a problem with scofflaws but at least be honest like the people that lie about thier kids ages for discounts or reuse refillable mugs. At least they admit they are breaking the rules but don't care. Here the rationaliztion is that if Disney doesn't enforce the policy or start punative measures then it is allowed. That just doesn't make any sense and just shows that you know what you are doing is wrong but can't stand to admit it.

 

[bstnsprts]

Ok, I finally see where you are coming from. Basically you are saying the consumer has no responsiblity to be honest. I once went to Target to purchase a mini stereo system that was priced at the shelf for $99. When I went to check out and the cashier scanned it, it came up 99 cents for a bag of peanuts, she did it several times.

She said you owe me 99 cents I guess. I said no I am afraid not, I owe you 99 dollars plus tax and if you can't correct the scan I suggest you call your manager, as I am sure he can. Needless to say she asked me not to tell her manager she had offered it to me for 99 cents.

I will take honesty over money anyday.

You made not feel comfortable doing it, but you were well within your rights to take that item for .99. It's the stores responsibility to comply with local and state pricing laws. Many stores in order to reduce state fines have pricing guarantees where on certain price discrepancies the item is free to the consumer. I've seen professional shoppers walk out with a couple of hundred dollars worth of free product because a store got lazy in maintaining price changes and POS maintenance. Disney needs to separate the credits if they don't want them pooled.

 

[huey578]

My issue isn't with whether or not Disney has a problem with it. Disney can't put one thing in a brochure and then give you pooled credits at check in and show pooled credits on receipts after each use. It's their responsibility to fix the problem and separate the credits. As long as their systems keep accepting these credits as pooled, no one is doing anything wrong using them that way whether Disney is ok with it or not.

You're a good role model for your kids, bsntnsprts....NOT!

 

[Pedler]

My issue isn't with whether or not Disney has a problem with it. Disney can't put one thing in a brochure and then give you pooled credits at check in and show pooled credits on receipts after each use. It's their responsibility to fix the problem and separate the credits. As long as their systems keep accepting these credits as pooled, no one is doing anything wrong using them that way whether Disney is ok with it or not.

So let me get this straight. If a rule doesn't have an enforcement mechanism then the rule doesn't exist and people should follow it? Since when was an enforcement mechanism neccessary for a rule to exist. Sounds like some serious rationalization to save some money. under that scenario when I get donuts at the grocery store and use the self check out and it asks how many donuts I have I should put in just one. If they didn't want me to take the extras they would have had someone there to check how many were in the bag.

Like I said I don't expect people to keep detailed track of credits. Some people will make unintentional mistakes. That is far different from the conversations here where people are intentionally planning on scamming the system to save some money.

 

[Sammie]

You made not feel comfortable doing it, but you were well within your rights to take that item for .99. It's the stores responsibility to comply with local and state pricing laws. Many stores in order to reduce state fines have pricing guarantees where on certain price discrepancies the item is free to the consumer. I've seen professional shoppers walk out with a couple of hundred dollars worth of free product because a store got lazy in maintaining price changes and POS maintenance. Disney needs to separate the credits if they don't want them pooled.

You're right I wouldn't feel comfortable taking it, even thought I might have been able to get away with it. I know it happens, but mistakes happen and I am not one to want to profit from another's mistakes. By not taking it I saved the store money, they realized their mistake and fixed it and prevented even further loss which hopefully if enough people do the same thing, costs stay down.

I am interested though since you feel even though Disney spelled out their policy very clearly in the new brochure because they depend on the customer's honesty at this time to enforce this, when you buy a paper at a newstand and it states 75 cents per paper, do you take more than because you can. I mean it's not like the door to the stand is going to snap close after taking one paper.

 

[Pedler]

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Not that this is an issue that would keep me up at night, but as far as your figuring about a store ringing something up cheaper than it actually should be, that is a matter of integrity. I would not leave the store without addressing the error- it isn't worth the money I save to have the store owner or clerk know that I would intentionally take advantage of a mistake, or their lack of a system to keep me honest, If you left your wallet in the ladies room - wouldn't you want someone to return it to you?

It really is a question of integrity. Unfortunately it is the view of many that any scam to save money that doesn't end up with an arrest is acceptable regardless of the rules the vendor lays out. This is a case in point. Disney has clearly stated this is agains the rules but some people don't care. Thier view is that if they can't get caught or thier are not consequences then the rule doesn't exist.

 

[Sammie]

You're a good role model for your kids, bsntnsprts....NOT!

Just as I believe in being honest, I believe in being polite to those I disagree with on policy.

You have made some good arguements on behalf of not scamming the system, but this does not help your cause.

Any chance you would reconsider and remove this, comment.

 

[bstnsprts]

So let me get this straight. If a rule doesn't have an enforcement mechanism then the rule doesn't exist and people should follow it? Since when was an enforcement mechanism neccessary for a rule to exist. Sounds like some serious rationalization to save some money. under that scenario when I get donuts at the grocery store and use the self check out and it asks how many donuts I have I should put in just one. If they didn't want me to take the extras they would have had someone there to check how many were in the bag.

Like I said I don't expect people to keep detailed track of credits. Some people will make unintentional mistakes. That is far different from the conversations here where people are intentionally planning on scamming the system to save some money.

Why is it that people can't debate without trying to get personal. We have a difference of opinion starting mainly with people being called thiefs. My opinion is just that until the credits are seperated, no one is doing anything illegal in using them pooled because Disney is giving them to people that way and accepting them for payment that way. As for all the mugs, ages, poolhooping, movie tickets, I really could care less.

 

[Pedler]

Why is it that people can't debate without trying to get personal. We have a difference of opinion starting mainly with people being called thiefs. My opinion is just that until the credits are seperated, no one is doing anything illegal in using them pooled because Disney is giving them to people that way and accepting them for payment that way. As for all the mugs, ages, poolhooping, movie tickets, I really could care less.

I guess our difference is that my view is a rule is a rule regardless of the enforcement mechanisms or consequences. Your view is that a rule only exists if a vendor has an enforcement mechanism. You still haven't answered two simple questions. First, what do you think of the new brochure on the plan that explicitly says this isn't allowed? Second is it your view that rules should be ignored if there isn't an enforcement mechanism?

 

[bstnsprts]

So let me get this straight. If a rule doesn't have an enforcement mechanism then the rule doesn't exist and people should follow it? Since when was an enforcement mechanism neccessary for a rule to exist. Sounds like some serious rationalization to save some money. under that scenario when I get donuts at the grocery store and use the self check out and it asks how many donuts I have I should put in just one. If they didn't want me to take the extras they would have had someone there to check how many were in the bag.

Like I said I don't expect people to keep detailed track of credits. Some people will make unintentional mistakes. That is far different from the conversations here where people are intentionally planning on scamming the system to save some money.

I don't know about you but I'm getting tired. It's not that there is no enforcement. It's the fact that you are still handed a card with the credits pooled. They are sending mix messages by doing that. If it wasn't for these boards I would never have known about a new brochure. I been on DDP twice and never would have read the new brochure when I arrive in September. I still really believe that you will never see the credits seperated, that this is just an half(you know what ) attempt to please people who complained about it. Anyway I guesse my biggest gripe is using the word thiefs, because I strongly fell, and I deal in these situations daily, that even with the brochure changes, the fact that the credits are in reality still pooled, means nothing illegal is being done. Nothing to due with enforcement, just the legality of the credits still showing up as one on DDP cards and being accepted as such for payment.

 

[ZPT1022]

They gotta make money somehow, there not running a homeless shelter

That's hardly what I'd call a place that costs a minimum of $100/night to stay at and approx $50/day just to go into, and even more when you count food, additional entertainment, souvenirs, etc..... I hardly think that Disney's financial picture is *that* dire

 

[Lisa_Belle]

I can certainly understand why Disney would want to clarify the rules so that people aren't taking children's credits and using them for a night out at V&A.

HOWEVER, Disney must realize that not every child subsists daily on a diet of mac & cheese and PB&J. If Disney is too stupid to offer children an assortment of foods than I think they deserve to have people take advantage of the system. If they get a clue and start offering pizza and fish people would be more honest. I mean, come on, how difficult would it be to have a fish plate with one or two pieces of fish instead of an adult portion, or a smaller hamburger, or a personal pizza for a child. I think this is the point the OP was trying to make - she wasn't using child credits to purchase a meal for herself but rather to purchase a "real" meal for her own child.

 

[Pedler]

I don't know about you but I'm getting tired. It's not that there is no enforcement. It's the fact that you are still handed a card with the credits pooled. They are sending mix messages by doing that.

Until they posted the new brochure I was with you all the way on that thought. Now that they added the FAQ I think it is pretty clear the intent. What you can get away with is another story.