Angry lifting block out dates

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I'm really not sure why people think Disney is responsible for keeping things fair. They're a business, and they'll do what's good for business.

They are a business. They don't have to be "fair". People can be annoyed when they think that one of their calls impacts them negatively. All true statements.

Hope ya'll don't get mad about the fact that they lifted the August CM guest pass block out dates for DAK.

Is this true? If true, this is bordering on hysterical at this point.

• They cut MK hours drastically for Aug as compared to last year (2.5 hrs less PER DAY during my trip), with no actual evidence I've seen that crowds went down (TP data suggests they've gone up slightly in Jul 2017 compared to Jul 2016).
• They cut AK hours as compared to last Aug, adding back in EMH with only 2 open attractions. Waits for FoP are longer than the EMH period itself every night.
• So the logical move now: lift a blackout and increase AK crowds in Aug -- however small an increase.

Wonder what's next for Aug this year?? LOL!! *insert gif of me throwing my hands up in the air*

I am REALLY loving Disney for my August trip this year!!

 

[mjr0483]

Yes and thats the point, crowds now will be heavier than normal. Maybe people won't notice them, maybe they will, but the fact is, people paid to be able to go on those dates and other people didn't and its not an insignificant amount of money.

Ok

 

[HopperFan]

It affects 5 out of your 7 days. Crowds will already be big. With this brief lift you won't even notice a difference

And I honestly think Disney is doing this to try to lift crowds TO the "budgeted" level because "actual" attendance has been down. In that scenario those upset may still get lower crowds than expected because this summer like last is off.

 

[HopperFan]

Yes and thats the point, crowds now will be heavier than normal. Maybe people won't notice them, maybe they will, but the fact is, people paid to be able to go on those dates and other people didn't and its not an insignificant amount of money.

I disagree. Disney can spin a PR gift to ride two rides but Disney gifts nothing of scale. This was done for Disney's benefit. When I can get POP during that week just a few weeks out with over 30% discount - it's slow.

Attendance is down just like last summer, this is to boost it to expected level not inflate it. Even with this last minute offer - that many can't use due to school, work, heat etc - I doubt it will be any more than they expected pre-lull.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

Perhaps the poster is concerned it will make a busy season busier. That does make logical sense.

Until you consider that the blockout dates were lifted because it isn't estimated to be nearly as busy as previously thought. It might "add onto the crowds" but you weren't expecting low crowds anyway. (and it won't "add onto the crowds" very much.)

No the crowds won't be "as normal." They haven't been normal all summer. No, it's not just to give a gift to seasonal passholders who want to say goodbye to two rides. that's just PR to let the passholders know they can do so.

What you have to remember, if you're worried that this will put crowds over the edge on your trip, is that it's not normal to lift blockout dates for seasonal passes. They only do it if they need to make up lower attendance. I still think this year is different because the Orlando parks are losing foreign visitors, a lot of foreign visitors.

Once that is understood, if anybody is still upset, it's because they probably feel the seasonal passholders are getting something they didn't pay for and don't deserve.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I disagree. Disney can spin a PR gift to ride two rides but Disney gifts nothing of scale. This was done for Disney's benefit. When I can get POP during that week just a few weeks out with over 30% discount - it's slow.

Attendance is down just like last summer, this is to boost it to expected level not inflate it. Even with this last minute offer - that many can't use due to school, work, heat etc - I doubt it will be any more than they expected.

The one thing this ignores is that per TP crowds appear up slightly from last year, but they have DRASTICALLY reduced MK hours (as I've said 2.5hrs less per day during my Aug trip). Then there's the Pandora EMH fiasco with only 2 rides open but them drawing EVERYONE they can there -- in part by closing everything else! This all impacts the guest experience.

So they're now packing more people than last year into fewer hours deliberately by removing the blackout. I can see being annoyed by this.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

No the crowds won't be "as normal." They haven't been normal all summer.

Curious where this is coming from? Is this from some sort of data, or what some are just saying/repeating? That one article that doesn't appear to be based on any data beyond their personal experience?

The only data I know of is TP, and they are showing crowds up from last summer. Lower than years ago I'm sure, but up from last summer. And hours are drastically down.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

The one thing this ignores is that per TP crowds appear up slightly from last year, but they have DRASTICALLY reduced MK hours (as I've said 2.5hrs less per day during my Aug trip). Then there's the Pandora EMH fiasco with only 2 rides open but them drawing EVERYONE they can there -- in part by closing everything else! This all impacts the guest experience.

This would occur whether they lifted the blockout dates or not. MK is the most popular park and AK has something new and interesting. From what I am hearing Epcot and DHS are WAY down in attendance. you're also talking about a relatively small number of additional people. there's plenty of room in the parks to absorb them.

Really this is nothing to panic about. Although now some are going to go on their vacation and spend most of it looking for proof that it's more crowded than it would have been otherwise, to the point that it damages their experience.

 

[HopperFan]

The one thing this ignores is that per TP crowds appear up slightly from last year, but they have DRASTICALLY reduced MK hours (as I've said 2.5hrs less per day during my Aug trip). Then there's the Pandora EMH fiasco with only 2 rides open but them drawing EVERYONE they can there -- in part by closing everything else! This all impacts the guest experience.

So they're now packing more people than last year into fewer hours deliberately by removing the blackout.

Well without looking at calendar ... I wasn't surprised at some shorter hours this summer based on last summer attendance. And without night parade I don't think that will change.

I don't think it's fair to compare last year AK to this year. Last year AK hours were way up from normal due to "ROL/JBA" which started the park into new territory. I don't think the EMH now are pure EMH, they are only for Pandora demand. Even so park is still open later than past.

I also think part of the closing times are to encourage longer trips AND send folks to Disney Springs.

PS I'm one who takes no stock in crowd calendars, I pay more attention to actual reporting, wait times and crowd pictures.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

This would occur whether they lifted the blockout dates or not. MK is the most popular park and AK has something new and interesting. From what I am hearing Epcot and DHS are WAY down in attendance. you're also talking about a relatively small number of additional people. there's plenty of room in the parks to absorb them.

I agree it's a small number of additional people - yes. I think that what might be getting to some people is the WHOLE PICTURE of this summer... all those things I mentioned. This feels like piling on, even though I don't think the impact of this one change will be felt.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Well without looking at calendar ... I wasn't surprised at some shorter hours this summer based on last summer attendance. And without night parade I don't think that will change.

I don't think it's fair to compare last year AK to this year. Last year AK hours were way up from normal due to "ROL/JBA" which started the park into new territory. I don't think the EMH now are pure EMH, they are only for Pandora demand. Even so park still open later.

I also think part of the closing times are to encourage longer trips AND send folks to Disney Springs.

PS I'm one who takes no stock in crowd calendars, I pay more attention to actual reporting, wait times and crowd pictures.

Gotcha! Re: crowd calendars, I agree to an extent re their FORECASTING value.

But if you look at TP ACTUAL CROWD LEVELS 2016 and 2017 for July, they are UP. They are basing that on ride wait times at key attractions.

That seems substantive to me. These assumptions about "crowds are down this summer" -- including that one article that seems to have gone around -- seem based entirely on some anecdotal experiences. Not too reliable. TP data isn't perfect, but it's better than anecdotal accounts for ACTUALS, if based properly on attraction waits.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

If they're really cutting that much time at MK, could be an issue. As for AK, I've been there a few times since Pandora opened, and they apparently don't need to keep the rest of the park open at the EMH because most of the guests are there for Pandora. Lines at the other attractions were pretty shockingly minimal during the day. (ALL the other attractions.)

Average wait times at key attractions are not always a good measure of how many people are actually in the park.

And yes, crowds are down this summer.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

If they're really cutting that much time at MK, could be an issue. As for AK, I've been there a few times since Pandora opened, and they apparently don't need to keep the rest of the park open at the EMH because most of the guests are there for Pandora. Lines at the other attractions were pretty shockingly minimal during the day. (ALL the other attractions.)

Yes, per MK -- I think you feel me.

But the lines in Pandora are just ridiculous. I've been tracking... the wait is nearly 2-3 hours all the way through EMH. That's nuts. If they opened the rest of AK maybe they could get those down some...

 

[HopperFan]

Gotcha! Re: crowd calendars, I agree to an extent re their FORECASTING value.

But if you look at TP ACTUAL CROWD LEVELS 2016 and 2017 for July, they are UP. They are basing that on ride wait times at key attractions.

That seems substantive to me. These assumptions about "crowds are down this summer" -- including that one article that seems to have gone around -- seem based entirely on some anecdotal experiences. Not too reliable. TP data isn't perfect, but it's better than anecdotal accounts for ACTUALS, if based properly on attraction waits.

I think TP is GREAT at hotel and room info. That's their specialty. Found way too much fault with other reporting.

But it's all good.

I think the Disney we knew with long hours and low crowds may be of the past. I see the parks becoming more Epcot style unless they can keep them open with spending profits.

 

[MrsDuck]

I'm really not sure why people think Disney is responsible for keeping things fair. They're a business, and they'll do what's good for business.

Bottom line, block out dates are subject to change. Hope ya'll don't get mad about the fact that they lifted the August CM guest pass block out dates for DAK.

Another AMEN from me!

Disney doesn't owe you squat. Don't like it? Well, you decide the value. And when it's too much, don't go.

 

[DLgal]

TP "crowd level" reports are garbage.

Their way of estimating bases on ride wait times is absurd. First of all, those are not 100% accurate at all times . Second, you can't always assume rides are operating at 100% capacity and there is no way to know that.

Look at the discount offers, park hours, and entertainment calendars. THAT tells the real story.

Crowds are down this summer. They have been down the last few quarters.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Look at the discount offers, park hours, and entertainment calendars. THAT tells the real story.

This tells the story of -- presumably -- what Disney anticipates.

I don't have better data than TP on estimated ACTUAL crowds. We all know ride waits aren't a perfect proxy for actuals. Best we've got -- unless you have something you can share?

Let me ask you this: Do you think crowds are down 12% from Aug16 to Aug17? That's the decrease in MK hours during my 11-day Aug trip from last year (2.5 hrs/day).

Seems a tad much.

 

[Xennia]

i am probably in the minority here. But I am angry that they lifted block out days.

Disney wants it both ways. They charge higher prices to "balance out" crowds for high demand periods. But when attendance is down too much they release these restrictions is crap. What about the people that pay higher prices so they have lower crowds and they are met with this betrayal. They are devaluing thier product.

It's 11 days. They gave us 11 days. I doubt that is anything to get mad over. I call it a perk for having an annual pass. This is silly to be mad over this. I guess the park hopper entrance is annoying to some as well. I don't get the madness.

 

[CT Disney]

​

Hi Everyone! I've been reading this thread with great interest. I don't have any skin in the game...no trip planned and no annual pass. The reason it's been so interesting is because I really can see both sides of the coin. Honestly, I keep changing my mind abut how I feel! If I had a trip planned in August, would this bother me? Should it? What if I'd paid for the more expensive gold pass? Would I feel guilty for not wanting others to get a little pixie dust? It's all very interesting...at least in my own head The whole thing is a fascinating study on human emotion and fairness.

The question of being happy for others has featured prominently in this thread. Can't we just be happy that others got pixie dusted?!? But, I think we all have to admit...we're not always happy for other's fortune. If we see the price of an airline ticket plummet the day after we've bought it for a higher price...not many of us are going to have this first thought: "Boy, I am so happy for the person that's going to score that low-priced airline ticket!!" Most of us are probably going to have a much different first thought.

Anyway, I have two questions that sort of popped into my head today. I was wondering what the Silver Pass holders felt about these:

1. How would you feel if the "Weekday Select Passholders" were suddenly granted weekend access in the fall months...say September and October? I guess this is just a "shoe-on-the-other-foot" question.

2. And, since a bunch of people have mentioned that people shouldn't be all that upset because "blackout dates are subject to change"...how would you feel if Disney came out and said, "Attendance looks like it's going to be way higher than anticipated in December. We are now going to blackout December 7 - 17 for Silver Pass Holders." Would you be OK with that because Disney is a business, they can do what they want and they made it clear that blackouts are subject to change?

Thanks for the interesting thread folks! I've really enjoyed reading it and considering all viewpoints...I love hearing everyone's thoughts and opinions...even the ones I disagree with!

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

​

Hi Everyone! I've been reading this thread with great interest. I don't have any skin in the game...no trip planned and no annual pass. The reason it's been so interesting is because I really can see both sides of the coin. Honestly, I keep changing my mind abut how I feel! If I had a trip planned in August, would this bother me? Should it? What if I'd paid for the more expensive gold pass? Would I feel guilty for not wanting others to get a little pixie dust? It's all very interesting...at least in my own head The whole thing is a fascinating study on human emotion and fairness.

The question of being happy for others has featured prominently in this thread. Can't we just be happy that others got pixie dusted?!? But, I think we all have to admit...we're not always happy for other's fortune. If we see the price of an airline ticket plummet the day after we've bought it for a higher price...not many of us are going to have this first thought: "Boy, I am so happy for the person that's going to score that low-priced airline ticket!!" Most of us are probably going to have a much different first thought.

Anyway, I have two questions that sort of popped into my head today. I was wondering what the Silver Pass holders felt about these:

1. How would you feel if the "Weekday Select Passholders" were suddenly granted weekend access in the fall months...say September and October? I guess this is just a "shoe-on-the-other-foot" question.

2. And, since a bunch of people have mentioned that people shouldn't be all that upset because "blackout dates are subject to change"...how would you feel if Disney came out and said, "Attendance looks like it's going to be way higher than anticipated in December. We are now going to blackout December 7 - 17 for Silver Pass Holders." Would you be OK with that because Disney is a business, they can do what they want and they made it clear that blackouts are subject to change?

Thanks for the interesting thread folks! I've really enjoyed reading it and considering all viewpoints...I love hearing everyone's thoughts and opinions...even the ones I disagree with!

Very good questions...!!!