What the HECK is going on???!!

[keishashadow]

Just my 2 cents...

Have noticed a few 2-tiered pricing of points on rental boards ($11 for rentals & $10 for DVC members) - think this is a grea idea.

Seems as though members are afraid to test the water with increased rental rates. Truthfully, if I was stuck w/a lot of points that I knew I wasn't going to use, I'm not sure how long I'd hold out either. Probably have good-hearted DVC'ers getting swayed by the heart-wrenching, hard-luck postings scrounging near-comped points. Although they seem as believable as the scamming emails I get daily.

Other than fire-sale points, renting points for less than average rate devalues their overall worth. Point prices keep rising but, rental rates are stagnet. Once you pass it, ROFR is a good thing for the members.

I wanted to buy into DVC many years ago but, life got in the way. Finally figured out a way to make it happen (thanks to what I discovered onthis board - thank-you very much!).

As for DVC being elitist, that's absurd. An educated buyer on a budget can ease into the market w/a small resale well under the $5 K range and add on as their financial circumstances allow. Primarily, because of the "buy where you want to stay mantra" we recently bought resale, then an add-on but, still need more points. No offense, still not interested in SSR; waiting for the next best thing. Until then I'll have to rent points or do a small add-on @ one of my existing resorts. Hesitant though, don't want to be in the position of holding the point bag & needing to go into the DVC rental business.

As for the folks who cherry pick the "hot" weeks with the intent of making a killing on eBay or rental boards (effectively, lessening the chances that actual members will have a chance to use the resorts during prime-time)...there's a special place for you on a continuous loop of It's a Small World!

 

[DizWacko]

i'm a little confused.....are we still in America?

i only ask b/c i was under the impression that here - in America....a free capitalistic society - that we were all free to do with our property what we want - within legal boundaries, of course! i mean, with respect...if i wish to rent my points for $12, $10, or $7, what is it to anyone else? they're mine, right?

obviously, everyone is entitled to their opinion. if you think those who rent for less than $xx are crazy, fine....but how are the folks who do so doing any of us a "disservice" by renting cheaper than you think they should? do you HONESTLY think that the few people renting below the "accepted threshold" are skewing the market THAT much? are there scores of DVC owners trying to rent for $10/pt now that simply can't do it b/c every renter in the civilized world is holding out for a rock-bottom deal?? i may be wrong - but i would find this very hard to believe.

and what i find VERY interesting - if not funny - are the posts like "well...i am not looking to rent my points, but....." or "i've never rented any of my points out before, but....", then proceed to tell us about all of the "problems" they're seeing on the Rent/Trade board. really??? you DO know that you don't HAVE to go and read the posts on the Rent/Trade board, don't you? if you don't like what's going on in the rental world, then maybe you should stop peeking behind the curtain.

Excellent post .. right on the mark.

I think there are too many people with too much time on their hands. Certainly you have better things to worry about rather than what others are doing with THEIR own (not yours) points.

 

[krdisneybound]

Then I am not sure why one would support a system that allows this kind of abuse. I am totally perplexed.

I use my points for myself, family members and friends. I feel everyone should use their points the way they feel like it. They paid for them and it is theirs to use however. If it isn't against the regulations/contract, let them do what they want. If the regulations/contract changes down the road, then sobeit. The language would have to be very BROAD.

I feel this thread will divert others from buying into DVC if they pay attention to the whole contents of it. (Look at Stuart D's post) All of us have pretty much learned the ins and outs ONLY after we bought into DVC. Of course, the mass majority of DVC'ers doesn't even know about the DIS Board and I am glad they don't.

Just let people do with their points what they want. If it doesn't hurt you or draw blood, leave it alone.

I also agree that it is TOTALLY WRONG for a DVC member to think that they have something over someone else just because they own. TOO BAD the CM involved in a squabble can't tell them where to go and put them in their place. If it has in fact happened in the past, then the cast member should get a "gold star" or even a pay raise for doing so.

 

[krdisneybound]

Excellent post .. right on the mark.

I think there are too many people with too much time on their hands. Certainly you have better things to worry about rather than what others are doing with THEIR own (not yours) points.

I TOTALLY agree with this post........................

 

[drakethib]

I dunno - we've never rented out our points and don't know if we ever will. But as far as I'm concerned, they're your (meaning owners in general) points and you can do what you want with 'em. Rent them for $1 a point or $20 a point. That's up to you.

I think the important part is that both sides do their research well - and remember that it's a private transaction.

DisFlan

Well Said.

I have rented my points out @ $5 per point (we had extra when we bought). I wasn't despearte for money or anything. I knew someone who could put them to use so it made all of us happy.

 

[drakethib]

I don't know that I will ever rent my points out, but I know that I want the option of doing so. People who lowball the value of their rental points are doing everybody, including themselves, a disservice. If we all agree to the (dare I say it) consensus of $10/point, then we all benefit. Why is the concept of being "stronger together" so difficult for people to understand?

How am I doing anyone a disservice by renting points out at whatever dollar amount that I want?


Stronger together ????? WTH..When I bought my DVC, the payment came out of my savings account, not a DVC trust or Stronger Together fund that people donated.

Let me ask a question, when you buy a car, do you just pay what is on the sticker price or do you haggle?

If someone is looking for a deal (leech or not), what does it matter what $$ they are asking?

I really don't see where this is an issue to anyone. If you don't want to rent your points out for less then $10, then don't.

 

[drakethib]

Well, let's see there was the man who was PHYSICALLY threatening a CM because the specific villa he wanted at OKW was not given to him. He wanted the current occupants ejected... The statement "I PAID $25,000 and I deserve that VILLA" was repeated SEVERAL times. (Like no one else in the resort paid any money, we were just freeloaders?) .... (The police were called when he told the CM and the manager that he planned to follow them out of the resort and attack them....and the IDIOT shut up before he got to go to jail However, I later heard he did not get ANY room at OKW he was asked to leave and his wife drug him out!)

There was the AP holder at AK last Saturday night BERATING a clerk at the the pin cart becasue the clerk did not have the AP pin for EE (which was never sold there and if you have a concern over avaialbity, this child was not the responsible party)

I saw an AP holder at the front desk the day a hurricane closed the parks SCREAMING at the CM because she could not get a lunch reservation in the hotel. The resturants were full.. "I have an AP and for all the money I spend here some of these other folks can wait!"

I saw a DVC member (at least someone with a tote) attempting to use the FP line, because "since I own DVC I should'nt have to stand in that standby line, that's for "regular" folks"

I wish these were isolated, but I am afraid from what I have heard they aren't. So NO, these are NOT fanatics who think Disney should live up to the agreement. These people think they entitled to abuse CMs and other guests..... This is above and beyond expecting Disney to live up to thier end of the deal.

You must admit that there are also Non-DVC and AP guest who scream and act like idiots because they are staying at so & so place and have driven or travled from wherever.

People who act like this are idiots period. I really don't think it has anything to do if they own Dvc, AP, or just making a one time trip.

They will gripe and try to use any leverage they can.

BTW, I vote that anyone who threatens harm to a CM or anyone else @ WDW should be barred from entering any Disney property. This is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Hopefully the jerk spent a few days in jail.

 

[drakethib]

I really don't think you understand the circumstances I am talking about, or perhaps you are one of the owners who abuses the system. I'm talking about the rule that transferred points maintain their home resort and use year. I think it is very problematic that you have commercial renters out there who are able to take advantage of a system that allows them to get points transferred to their account that are expiring (e.g., they have an April use year at BCV, and get points transferred in mid-May from a June use year at HH for example) for a rock bottom price, convert them to their own home resort and use year (or in some cases their choice of home resort or use year) thereby having the points change both use years and resorts (and increasing the value of the points in the process) and rent them out for an increase of $5 or more per point in a profit making endeavor. I want to make this clear that this is not a situation that is in my imagination. It is very real and has, indeed, happened with points of mine. The system is the problem in this case. If I transferred my points and they retained my home resort and use year, I agree that it is really none of my business what is done with the points after that (except as an owner in general who expects compliance with the prohibiition on commercial renting which is spelled out in our documents and includes the example of ongoing and repeated and recurring patterns of heavy rental activity). Transfers, as implemented, have created a relatively risk free profit making opportunity that, in my opinion, should be closed off.

Doc. I agree with you on the home resort issue but I don't think we should do away with transfers (or did I misread your post)

 

[Doctor P]

Definitely misread my post. I don't want to do away with transfers. Just have them proceed as (correctly) provided for in our documents (i.e., maintain the use year and home resort of the transferred points).

 

[Doctor P]

I use my points for myself, family members and friends. I feel everyone should use their points the way they feel like it. They paid for them and it is theirs to use however. If it isn't against the regulations/contract, let them do what they want.

I agree--as long as the use is in conformance with the regulations/contract, which the case that I am having a problem with is not. If they don't close this loophole, lack of enforcement, or whatever you want to call it, it could result in great (and unfair) imbalances in demand for resorts at the 11 month mark by converting points to home resort status that are not home resort points.

 

[jim and meesie]

I'm sure someone has looked into this so please educate me. It seems to me that WDW intends to have DVC running at near capacity all the time.

I know that people use their points for many things other than WDW (Vero Beach, HH, Cruises, trades etc.) I'm sure my numbers are wrong but help me correct them. Something is clearly way out of wack

DVC has 90,000+ members each owning on average 150 pts= roughly 5 nights= 450,000 nights total needed

DVC at WDW has roughly 3000 rooms x 52 weeks in the year = 156,000 nights

With this kind of inequity it would seem that it would be very difficult to get your first choice of vacation at WDW each and every year.

What are the real numbers involved without getting too detailed. I know many members have way more than 150 pts so the average could be far more disproportionate.

At another timeshare (Marriott as an example) they can only sell the number of rooms x the number of weeks in the year (less 2 weeks for maintenance). I know apples and oranges, Marriott generally restricts you to more or less the same week or season each year. What types of restrictions does DVC have in place for this? I know they have the ability to bring new resorts online pretty much as needed, is their solution "if DVC sells it we will build" so they can always control DVC occupancy at super high levels. I would think that with the varying costs of the resorts along with the ability to use the points at any of them it would be exceptionally hard to book at the most popular resorts.

Huge respect here for the DVC members who have booked rentals for me!!!!!

 

[CarolMN]

I'm sure someone has looked into this so please educate me. It seems to me that WDW intends to have DVC running at near capacity all the time.

I know that people use their points for many things other than WDW (Vero Beach, HH, Cruises, trades etc.) I'm sure my numbers are wrong but help me correct them. Something is clearly way out of wack

DVC has 90,000+ members each owning on average 150 pts= roughly 5 nights= 450,000 nights total needed

DVC at WDW has roughly 3000 rooms x 52 weeks in the year = 156,000 nights

With this kind of inequity it would seem that it would be very difficult to get your first choice of vacation at WDW each and every year.

What are the real numbers involved without getting too detailed. I know many members have way more than 150 pts so the average could be far more disproportionate.

At another timeshare (Marriott as an example) they can only sell the number of rooms x the number of weeks in the year (less 2 weeks for maintenance). I know apples and oranges, Marriott generally restricts you to more or less the same week or season each year. What types of restrictions does DVC have in place for this? I know they have the ability to bring new resorts online pretty much as needed, is their solution "if DVC sells it we will build" so they can always control DVC occupancy at super high levels. I would think that with the varying costs of the resorts along with the ability to use the points at any of them it would be exceptionally hard to book at the most popular resorts.

Huge respect here for the DVC members who have booked rentals for me!!!!!

Disney cannot (and I feel safe in saying has not) sold more capacity than it has available. The flaw is in your analysis - you've made many assumptions that are not correct.

For example, not all units cost the same number of points per night. It varies by size of unit, by day of the week and by season.

If you added up the total number of points it took to reserve every room every night for a year, I'm positive that you would find that Disney did not sell more points than that total.

Best wishes -

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

Well Said.

I have rented my points out @ $5 per point (we had extra when we bought). I wasn't despearte for money or anything. I knew someone who could put them to use so it made all of us happy.

I think this is wonderful. As I mentioned in previous posts...my only beef are the people that buy points at bargain prices ($8 or less and sometimes under false pretenses) and turn around and relist them for $12-$15. I know it's nothing more than good old fashioned capitalism and it's petty to feel this way.

I almost wish there was a way to limit transfered points to ressies that are only in the name of the DVC owner that had them transfered in. But, of course, this in unrealistic for DVC owners that are trying to secure ressies for friends or family member.

I guess the bottomline is that people can do whatever they want with their points...I just hope they use some scrutiny on who they rent/transfer to.

I would also like to point out once again to the renters that are perusing this thread: these statements are not directly to any of you personally, so please don't be offended or think DVC owners are mean and nasty. Most of us are all really nice people and appreciate that fact that we can find a good home for unused points.

 

[ScarletFire]

DVC has 90,000+ members each owning on average 150 pts= roughly 5 nights= 450,000 nights total needed

DVC at WDW has roughly 3000 rooms x 52 weeks in the year = 156,000 nights

should be X 365 days not 52 weeks so the answer is 1,095,000 nights

 

[jim and meesie]

Disney cannot (and I feel safe in saying has not) sold more capacity than it has available. The flaw is in your analysis - you've made many assumptions that are not correct.

For example, not all units cost the same number of points per night. It varies by size of unit, by day of the week and by season.

If you added up the total number of points it took to reserve every room every night for a year, I'm positive that you would find that Disney did not sell more points than that total.

Best wishes -

Oh I agree that they can't sell more than capacity, what I'm getting at is how close to capacity do they sell? ie; How difficult is it to get just what you want if you are considering a very popular resort. If your interest is only 2-3 months a year in a 1 bedroom at 1-2 resorts (and you don't plan vacations 11 months in advance). I'm sure the capacity exists but is it only relatively easy to get low demand months at low demand resorts. The more I look at it the more it looks as difficult as trying to use my frequent flyer points.

 

[jim and meesie]

should be X 365 days not 52 weeks so the answer is 1,095,000 nights

Thank you, I knew I had to be missing some key point, that makes me feel less concerned that booking a room would be a "needle in a haystack" situation!

 

[CarolMN]

Oh I agree that they can't sell more than capacity, what I'm getting at is how close to capacity do they sell? ie; How difficult is it to get just what you want if you are considering a very popular resort. If your interest is only 2-3 months a year in a 1 bedroom at 1-2 resorts (and you don't plan vacations 11 months in advance). I'm sure the capacity exists but is it only relatively easy to get low demand months at low demand resorts. The more I look at it the more it looks as difficult as trying to use my frequent flyer points.

IMHO, DVC would not be a good choice for you - you may want to try renting points for a few years first to see if you are successful in getting what you want.

To me, since you are only interested in 1 or 2 of the resorts and don't plan very far in advance, you could be setting yourself up for disappointment if you buy. Low demand months for the parks are not necessarily low demand months for DVC accomodations. If the 1 or 2 resorts include the smaller resorts (BCV, VWL or BWV), you definitely could have porblems more often than not.

Best wishes -

 

[greenban]

I think this is wonderful. As I mentioned in previous posts...my only beef are the people that buy points at bargain prices ($8 or less and sometimes under false pretenses) and turn around and relist them for $12-$15. I know it's nothing more than good old fashioned capitalism and it's petty to feel this way.

I almost wish there was a way to limit transfered points to ressies that are only in the name of the DVC owner that had them transfered in. But, of course, this in unrealistic for DVC owners that are trying to secure ressies for friends or family member.

I guess the bottomline is that people can do whatever they want with their points...I just hope they use some scrutiny on who they rent/transfer to.

I would also like to point out once again to the renters that are perusing this thread: these statements are not directly to any of you personally, so please don't be offended or think DVC owners are mean and nasty. Most of us are all really nice people and appreciate that fact that we can find a good home for unused points.

Uh Oh....

I just rented to Dog the Bounty Hunter........


-Tony

But you ARE right Calypso!

 

[newfamilyman]

I really don't see where this is an issue to anyone. If you don't want to rent your points out for less then $10, then don't.

I disagree completely with your view. If you were the only DVC owner, then I guess it wouldn't matter how little you decided to charge. Those who rent below market value, though, do a disservice to all those who do rent or may want to rent out their points at some time in the future. If you can't understand that concept, I'm not sure how else I can enlighten you.

 

[Dean]

Oh I agree that they can't sell more than capacity, what I'm getting at is how close to capacity do they sell? ie; How difficult is it to get just what you want if you are considering a very popular resort. If your interest is only 2-3 months a year in a 1 bedroom at 1-2 resorts (and you don't plan vacations 11 months in advance). I'm sure the capacity exists but is it only relatively easy to get low demand months at low demand resorts. The more I look at it the more it looks as difficult as trying to use my frequent flyer points.

No one knows for certain but it appears that DVC sells points to the level of about 96-98% of the max points for that year are available. I think they hold a week per unit back for rehab. And any points or days given up by a member translates to usage so does not mean available rooms. Since the resorts do not run at this level occupancy year round, this suggests that someone is losing points along the way. You can bet it's not me or most of those on DIS.

Smaller higher demand resorts are harder to book and harder still if you don't have the home resort priority, the rest is not difficult if you plan ahead. It's not as bad a FF miles but it is the same idea in that the planning early bird gets the worm.