Things not going well with the DDP changes

[kaytieeldr]

No, no, I swear! I tip well for good service! I tip great for great service! And actually, only once have I stooped to tipping fifteen percent to the penny - and really, that server deserved a LOT less, but having several servers/restaurant people in my family, well...

 

[kaytieeldr]

I guess that makes school teachers pay on par with part-time servers at WDW

You know, we're not even generally discussing teacher salaries* in this thread - but if we were, it'd make much more sense to compare the $25,000 that an assistant football coach in Dillon SC (I think - tloft?) earns compared to the $32,000 that a teacher earns in that same district.
*Note that it IS a salary, replete with benefits - a guaranteed annual earning. This is NOT so with most restaurant servers nationwide.

 

[tloft]

I guess that makes school teachers pay on par with part-time servers at WDW. Do you have a vendetta against school teachers? If servers don't get enough hours they can certainly take on another job. I know some of the professions I mentioned do just that.

Obviously you just enjoy a good ole post war - but please tell me where I said anything about what teachers should or shouldn't make. You are the one that is confident you know what WDW servers make, determined that to be unacceptably high, and feel free to lead a rallying cry against them. This whole teachers vs. servers thing is incredibly stupid.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I agree with tloft. Apples to monkeys. Now, if we were comparing Disney servers to Disney teachers; or South Carolina teachers to South Carolina servers - that'd be different. Still invalid, but different.

 

[tloft]

it'd make much more sense to compare the $25,000 that an assistant football coach in Dillon SC (I think - tloft?) earns compared to the $32,000 that a teacher earns in that same district.

I actually did not post the coach salary and have no idea what they actually make and have lost the willpower to google it at this point. I will say that when I was in High School at a public school in SC I was involved in athletics and even back then this coaches are way overpaid stuff reared its head. It has probably changed a lot, but when I was in school (graduated 1992) the high school football coach taught 4 periods a day (biology - including an AP class, so it wasn't just "jock" work), was the schools athletic director, and coached the wrestling team and as far as I could tell worked year round - since I practiced year round. I'm quite sure as AD/Full Time Teacher/Head Coach of Two Sports he was compensated much more highly than any regular teacher. Again- I certainly believe teachers should be paid better but it is awfully simplistic to act like coaches just show up and scream at footaball players a few hours a day for a few months out of the year and get paid extravagant salaries - and that this, and this alone, is what is wrong with education.

 

[godmother923]

I have read about as many replys to this thread as I had time for... So, if I am rehashing what has already been written sorry.. Here are a couple of my observations:

First my family and started planning our trip this past July for this coming April 2008. At the time, I immediately contacted AAA... My Agent was already informed about the new changes to the 2008 dining plan and she relayed them accordingly..

Why are CM's at Disney not aware of such a huge change and Agents from outside Disney are???

(also, I will tell you that every time I contacted Disney during this whole process to get info that maybe my agent couldnt give me, the CM were not nice.. they were rude and seemed very irritated that I was calling them asking them questions...

The other thing that I found to be important i that the average family does save for years to be able to afford to come to Disney. You know, most people want to come and be as stress free as they can.. To save to be able to take your family on a dream vacation and get there and realize that money that you had put aside for spending money is now having to go towards tips is definitely not an easy thing to swallow..

You would think with such a great company like Disney, that they would have figured out how to best roll out such a big change..
I think that most people these days are lucky that it takes some planning to go on a trip to Disney.. that is how I found this board.. Even though this time in April will be my 10th time.. It will be my first with a child.. So, that in itself calls for lots of extra planning. So, I wanted to make sure that I knew the best places to go et cetc.. and that is how I found this board.. I think a lot of people are like me these days and spend the time to find out more information.. However, you can begrudge someone that is angry who only had information from a previous year that was no longer valid..

I am just hoping that all the kinks are out by the time we get there in April.. We are on the delux plan.

 

[tloft]

No, no, I swear! I tip well for good service!

I don't doubt it - you seem to have a healthy perspective. In the restaurant one of the worst things you can have a customer say is any variation of 'i tip well for good service". Invariably this is the customer that runs your a** off, complains about everything, orders/requests something every time you come to the table (like drink requests one at a time rather than having the table order at once) and if you keep up with them perfectly offers some "constructive" criticism and a 10% tip after treating you like trash for an hour. This is the same customer that slides a $5 bill to a bartender for his first beer, says keep the change and expects to be treated like royalty the rest of the night even though you'll never see another penny and they won't hesitate to elbow in front of people or throw change at the bartender if they think they aren't being served fast enough.

 

[tloft]

I have read about as many replys to this thread as I had time for... So, if I am rehashing what has already been written sorry.. Here are a couple of my observations:

First my family and started planning our trip this past July for this coming April 2008. At the time, I immediately contacted AAA... My Agent was already informed about the new changes to the 2008 dining plan and she relayed them accordingly..

Why are CM's at Disney not aware of such a huge change and Agents from outside Disney are???

(also, I will tell you that every time I contacted Disney during this whole process to get info that maybe my agent couldnt give me, the CM were not nice.. they were rude and seemed very irritated that I was calling them asking them questions...

The other thing that I found to be important i that the average family does save for years to be able to afford to come to Disney. You know, most people want to come and be as stress free as they can.. To save to be able to take your family on a dream vacation and get there and realize that money that you had put aside for spending money is now having to go towards tips is definitely not an easy thing to swallow..

You would think with such a great company like Disney, that they would have figured out how to best roll out such a big change..
I think that most people these days are lucky that it takes some planning to go on a trip to Disney.. that is how I found this board.. Even though this time in April will be my 10th time.. It will be my first with a child.. So, that in itself calls for lots of extra planning. So, I wanted to make sure that I knew the best places to go et cetc.. and that is how I found this board.. I think a lot of people are like me these days and spend the time to find out more information.. However, you can begrudge someone that is angry who only had information from a previous year that was no longer valid..

I am just hoping that all the kinks are out by the time we get there in April.. We are on the delux plan.

all great points

it certainly doesn't excuse rudeness, but as I understand it, any changes to AAA reservations have to be done directly with AAA. The commissioned Disney res agents not only can't make changes to your res, but have nothing to gain while on the phone with them - I don't for a second think it excuses rudeness, just a possible explanation.

As far as CMs not being more educated I'm planning my fourth trip in three years and am not even close to figuring out the whys and hows of what the CMs do and do not know. Getting a discount is a game of disney roulette and I usually know more about Dining Plan terms as a result of this board than the average CM. In Jan of 06 I had to speak to 5 different people at my resort front desk, despite having the Dining Plan literature listing Coral Reef as a 1 credit restaurant with me, to have my meal there reduced from 2 credits per person. I think the size of the staff, the amount of turnover, and the number of policies and changes to them makes it very difficult to keep the average CM abrest of the more specific issues that come up. You have to admit that once you get hooked on the Disney thing, it is a world of minutiae.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Why are CM's at Disney not aware of such a huge change and Agents from outside Disney are???

(also, I will tell you that every time I contacted Disney during this whole process to get info that maybe my agent couldnt give me, the CM were not nice.. they were rude and seemed very irritated that I was calling them asking them questions...

If you book through a Travel Agent, the TA "owns" your reservation until you check in to your resort; all contact with the travel vendor - Disney, in this case - has to go through your TA. Cast Members aren't supposed to discuss anything with that Guest, they're supposed to advise you to contact your Travel Agent.

 

[Tricia1972]

New Plan versus old. Old plan wins hands down. New plan is still a good deal. $8 - $10 for Breakfeats, $7 - $10 for lunch, average $22 for dinner entree plus $7 for dessert. works out to $42 per person per day on the low side. Stop crabbing and pay the $38 dollars

Excellent point!

Thanks for the simplified breakdown of the plan, it helps me see/show where I am saving money not doing the plan

Our Family:
Breakfast - In Room
Lunch - $10 - split between two adults
Dinner - $22 - Usually no dessert here
Snack - $4 - Usually split between two adults as dessert

Our Daily Cost per person is closer to $29 per person per day, which is why the plan isn't the best deal for us.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Obviously you just enjoy a good ole post war - but please tell me where I said anything about what teachers should or shouldn't make. You are the one that is confident you know what WDW servers make, determined that to be unacceptably high, and feel free to lead a rallying cry against them. This whole teachers vs. servers thing is incredibly stupid.

There has been salary comparisions on this subject throughout the threads on this board. These have been interjected to bring a little reality on what a "living wage" is. There have been several servers posting on these boards stating they average $150-$250 per shift. The other calculations have come from common sense. I don't begrudge a server a good salary. I do not like to hear the whining about how the servers deserve the sun, moon and the stars...just because. I think it is disingenuous to constantly say they only make $2.13 per hour. I have been in the restaurant business and I'm a heavy tipper as a result. I just don't like the sense of entitlement I hear from some of the posters. I guess, I need to post a disclaimer stating every word in my post doesn't directly pertain to you.

 

[kaytieeldr]

But a server only absolutely makes $3.80 (not $2.13, the minimum wage increases really do affect everyone); the employer is only required to make up the difference between that and actual minimum wage if the server's tips don't provide at least that level.

But, one more time - it is not MY (the diner's) business how much a server makes per hour, week, or year. It is only MY concern that I expect and receive good to excellent service.

 

[TLSnell1981]

But a server only absolutely makes $3.80 (not $2.13, the minimum wage increases really do affect everyone); the employer is only required to make up the difference between that and actual minimum wage if the server's tips don't provide at least that level.

But, one more time - it is not MY (the diner's) business how much a server makes per hour, week, or year. It is only MY concern that I expect and receive good to excellent service.

Don't forget the absolute 3% disney adds. It may not sound like much, but I bet every server wants it. Pennies add up to dollars....every little bit counts.

 

[Cooper520]

Its not like that is the only job they have to work. My sister is a waitress, so I hear a lot of complaining about bad customers who make her do this and that, and then tip her only 10% or whatever. My response to her is always, "If you don't like it, then get a job that doesn't pay a variable wage" And I know I know, this is the only job that some of them can get, or whatever excuse they may offer up. We all make choices, and if you choose to be a waiter/waitress, you also choose to expose yourself to this mess.

Really, I applaud the American restauranteur, they have successfully guilted the American public into subsidizing their labor force. What a brilliant business move.

 

[I Run Long]

Really, I applaud the American restauranteur, they have successfully guilted the American public into subsidizing their labor force. What a brilliant business move.

That's a very good point. Here I only tip between 10-12% but the minimum wage is $8/hr. When I visit there I always tip much higher - but then again should not the restauranteur be paying the servers a decent wage. Honestly, that's a terrible salary.

 

[disneyfan2kids]

Obviously "i can care less" isn't true or you wouldn't feel compelled to comment any time this discussion comes up.

 

[Kurby]

i just wanted to add my 2 cents into the mix here.

i'm a little shocked to say the least that disney in all it's experience would think it a good idea to screw around with something that worked so well for so many

ok they say they are loosing money on it - so what. really. so what.

by keeping their customers happy and on property they are actually going to make more money by people not leaving to visit another park, eat at another restaurant (which in this case doesn't mean much until you consider that they aren't walking around the park or DTD after dinner and window shopping which leads to buying.

when you look at the grand scheme of it - they can certainly afford it.

take Sears for instance.

every month i receive an email that says buy 5 or 6 sheets at xx dollars and any more at yy dollars and the yy dollars usually doesn't go more then 3 bucks.

does disney make money with their photography shop - yes and no - while some people go in and buy the large packages for over $300 others go in and buy the smallest package for $60 and still more (like us) just purchase 8x10's of whatever was shot and that's it.

they don't make any money on the last 2 kinds of people however over all Sears is doing very well money wise. the rest of the store is picking up the slack so to speak.

now turn that around to Disney - while the restaurants may not be the money making adventure it once was it is still not costing them 100% they are making some money and i'll venture a guess that if they are infact loosing money it's not everything - it'll prob be more like loosing 10-20 out of 100 bucks. ok if the restaurant was a sole business that would be a problem but it isn't.

they make hundreds of millions on dvds, cds, concert rights, theme parks, hotels, internet shopping, retail shopping, those vendors throughout the park and yes food (not everyone purchases the ddp), tv stations - (commercials) etc... over all Disney is not operating in the Red - far from it.

suck it up, take a small loss on the food side and off set it with the millions in profit you're making with everything else.

 

[creativeamanda]

But a server only absolutely makes $3.80 (not $2.13, the minimum wage increases really do affect everyone); the employer is only required to make up the difference between that and actual minimum wage if the server's tips don't provide at least that level.

But, one more time - it is not MY (the diner's) business how much a server makes per hour, week, or year. It is only MY concern that I expect and receive good to excellent service.

I asked my sister-in-law about this today. She put herself through college as a server. I asked her if she reported all of her tips as a server. Her answer was no. Now, there, I do have a problem and think it is absolutely my business if a person is not paying the income taxes and FICA she should be. There needs to be a better handle on this. I don't know if this has changed since she waited tables (5 years ago), but my guess is it hasn't. She called tips over minimum wage gifts. My mother in law did the same thing.

 

[sandym718]

i just wanted to add my 2 cents into the mix here.

i'm a little shocked to say the least that disney in all it's experience would think it a good idea to screw around with something that worked so well for so many

ok they say they are loosing money on it - so what. really. so what.

by keeping their customers happy and on property they are actually going to make more money by people not leaving to visit another park, eat at another restaurant (which in this case doesn't mean much until you consider that they aren't walking around the park or DTD after dinner and window shopping which leads to buying.

when you look at the grand scheme of it - they can certainly afford it.

take Sears for instance.

every month i receive an email that says buy 5 or 6 sheets at xx dollars and any more at yy dollars and the yy dollars usually doesn't go more then 3 bucks.

does disney make money with their photography shop - yes and no - while some people go in and buy the large packages for over $300 others go in and buy the smallest package for $60 and still more (like us) just purchase 8x10's of whatever was shot and that's it.

they don't make any money on the last 2 kinds of people however over all Sears is doing very well money wise. the rest of the store is picking up the slack so to speak.

now turn that around to Disney - while the restaurants may not be the money making adventure it once was it is still not costing them 100% they are making some money and i'll venture a guess that if they are infact loosing money it's not everything - it'll prob be more like loosing 10-20 out of 100 bucks. ok if the restaurant was a sole business that would be a problem but it isn't.

they make hundreds of millions on dvds, cds, concert rights, theme parks, hotels, internet shopping, retail shopping, those vendors throughout the park and yes food (not everyone purchases the ddp), tv stations - (commercials) etc... over all Disney is not operating in the Red - far from it.

suck it up, take a small loss on the food side and off set it with the millions in profit you're making with everything else.

I'm guessing the argument to that would be (from a business sense) that Disney obviously feels that this change will NOT affect business very much. That people will still stay, eat and shop on property in numbers very close to before. They must feel that the "market can bear" this change which is the basic standard for business pricing, right?

That said - I prefer the old plan, too, who wouldn't right? If the plan is still this new way in 2009, though, I'll still buy it - it still works out to a decent savings for us, plus I love the convenience!

 

[kaytieeldr]

My sister is a waitress, so I hear a lot of complaining about bad customers who make her do this and that, and then tip her only 10% or whatever. My response to her is always, "If you don't like it, then get a job that doesn't pay a variable wage"

Well, now, I don't disagree with you - how does your sister respond?

Really, I applaud the American restauranteur, they have successfully guilted the American public into subsidizing their labor force. What a brilliant business move.

I don't remember if this is the thread where I linked this http://www.restaurantnewsresource.com/article26225.html study, but it's worth repeating.

ok they say they are losing money on it - so what. really. so what.

I don't think Disney ever claimed they were losing money with the Dining Plan; it's just that this way, they increase their profits. BIG difference.

I asked my sister-in-law about this today. She put herself through college as a server. I asked her if she reported all of her tips as a server. Her answer was no. Now, there, I do have a problem and think it is absolutely my business if a person is not paying the income taxes and FICA she should be.

I agree with you 100%. I'd agree more, but that's mathematically impossible