Looking for Advice....

How much did she give you for the addition? Did you claim the amount on your taxes as a gift? Or was this a loan. Was the amount over the allowable gift amount. And if it was, did you pay taxes on it? I am guessing the amount of money to add on a MIL apartment and some additional living space for yourselves might possibly exceed the allowable gift amount. So many variables here, no one can give you a good answer without knowing the background on how you handled the gift or loan.

I am not an accountant, but emotions aside, I would be contacting a good lawyer to see what legal obligations you might have to your mother regarding the loan or gift. Even if your mother doesn't stand up to you, you can bet there are going to be plenty of savvy people in that 55+ community that may come to her aid if they think you fleeced her out of some money that she may be entitled to.
 
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Did she help out in other ways such as housework or childcare that, while not going directly towards taxes and upkeep also offset things financially? I'd consider at least giving her back what she paid for the addition out of the sale proceeds.

I also would like to know. Is it just a coincident that after 19 years, when the children have left home, you suddenly realize you want to be alone and that it was a mistake not to discuss how long the arrangement would last? Seriously? After 19 years and a permanent addition to the house? It all sounds strange to me.

And I think that if she paid for the addition, and paid for her utilities, she wasn't living "for free"
 
I also would like to know. Is it just a coincident that after 19 years, when the children have left home, you suddenly realize you want to be alone and that it was a mistake not to discuss how long the arrangement would last? Seriously? After 19 years and a permanent addition to the house? It all sounds strange to me.

And I think that if she paid for the addition, and paid for her utilities, she wasn't living "for free"
I agree. It sounds like she paid cash for her residence. Not having a monthly payment doesn't necessarily mean you haven't paid for your domicile.
 
Ok I"ll be blunt. This is how I, as an outsider, see the situation and I am fully aware I might be totally wrong. You took your DM in 19 years ago and accepted her money for an extension to your home. Over the years that has given you a substantial increase in the home's value. She paid all her own utilities so in effect did not cost you anymore money than what you would have paid anyways on taxes, insurance etc. Even if you paid a bit more you now have the home's value to offset that. Your children were probably very little or not yet born. How much help did you receive from her and free babysitting over 19 years. If she was the typical grandmother I would say the help was substantial in childcare, cleaning, cooking etc. If the house is sold she should AT LEAST get back the amount it cost her for the extension and you get to keep the increase in value that investment gave you over 19 years.


Now that your kids are grown she is not needed and perhaps not even wanted. You want to sell your house but in the process will be selling her home. Irregardless if you now say it was the wrong decision to allow her to stay for so long, that is exactly what you and your dh did for whatever benefit you got out of it. You cannot and should not, at her age, pull the rug out from under her without her having a say in it. Of course she will be angry. You and dh have it all set up for your future but you have not even spoken to her about it. And to even consider not giving her any money out of the sale to help her with the financial burden your decision will cause her is unfathomable. Sorry op but your post sounds rather callous as if you are talking about a random tenant, not your mother.

As an afterthought, how far away would you be living from her if you purchased this new house and she moved into the 55+ apartment? Also, does she have other children to help her out or are you the only one?
 
Ok I"ll be blunt. This is how I, as an outsider, see the situation and I am fully aware I might be totally wrong. You took your DM in 19 years ago and accepted her money for an extension to your home. Over the years that has given you a substantial increase in the home's value. She paid all her own utilities so in effect did not cost you anymore money than what you would have paid anyways on taxes, insurance etc. Even if you paid a bit more you now have the home's value to offset that. Your children were probably very little or not yet born. How much help did you receive from her and free babysitting over 19 years. If she was the typical grandmother I would say the help was substantial in childcare, cleaning, cooking etc. If the house is sold she should AT LEAST get back the amount it cost her for the extension and you get to keep the increase in value that investment gave you over 19 years.


Now that your kids are grown she is not needed and perhaps not even wanted. You want to sell your house but in the process will be selling her home. Irregardless if you now say it was the wrong decision to allow her to stay for so long, that is exactly what you and your dh did for whatever benefit you got out of it. You cannot and should not, at her age, pull the rug out from under her without her having a say in it. Of course she will be angry. You and dh have it all set up for your future but you have not even spoken to her about it. And to even consider not giving her any money out of the sale to help her with the financial burden your decision will cause her is unfathomable. Sorry op but your post sounds rather callous as if you are talking about a random tenant, not your mother.

As an afterthought, how far away would you be living from her if you purchased this new house and she moved into the 55+ apartment? Also, does she have other children to help her out or are you the only one?
If OP is 51 as her profile indicates, her mother has been living with them since she was 32. I'm guessing that's since her kids were very young. I really want to know how much Mom did to help out with the kids all those years, how many dinners she cooked, etc.

OP, you should think long and hard about the example you set for your own kids on caring for elderly parents.
 
...As far as her being angry, quite honestly, I cannot blame her. Reading this, it appears you and your DH have realized for a long time that she thought the living arrangements were permanent and never spoke to her about your differeing wants/needs so that she could plan accordingly and save, etc
And NOW you've found a home you want to move into and planned where she, an apparently able minded person, will move (or at least what type of situation) without so much as talking to her about it at all.
Even if she is often manipulative or difficult, your behaviour is also underhanded, controlling and not fair or a mature, adult way of handling things.

I hope you can all actualy sit down and talk and ask what she wants/plans/expects and listen to her and try to work with her before laying out your "this is what we have planned for oursleves and you as well"

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Question, do you guys think that the OP is obligated to always share a home with her mom?
I don't.

But I have 3 issues with the situation laid out by the OP:

1) They seem to have devised a plan without consulting Mom at all. I don't get that. Why wasn't she involved in the discussions?

2) They let her stay there for 19 years with no discussion of an end game (at least not one mentioned in the OP). It probably felt permanent by year 5 or 10 anyway. But maybe the OP will chime in with more details. Maybe they have been discussing it all along? I sure hope so.

3) Wanting to sell the house with Mom's addition without paying Mom anything for that added value.
 
Ok-lot's to clarify. I did not include a lot of details to my original post because it was already lengthy and I wasn't really asking if I was making the right decision for my mom-but here goes. I did not have a good relationship with my mother growing up. Once I got married, moved out of the house and had children, we became much closer. My dad died suddenly at a young age. My husband and I had young children and hectic jobs. My siblings were younger, single and not at a point in their lives that they would interested in helping out with my mother. My husband and I decided that it would be easier to have my mother live with us then to have to help take care of another residence. I also thought that was what my dad would have wanted me to do. Once suggested to my mother, she jumped on it and we jumped through many hoops to be able to add the apartment on to our existing house. The apartment itself does not add value to the home since it is only approved for the time that my mother resides in it. It cannot be sold as a 2-family residence and the kitchen will most likely have to be dismantled. The reason it adds value to the home is due to the additional square footage. Anyway, it became apparent very quickly after she moved in with us that it was not a good situation-there were reasons we butt heads when I was growing up and they hadn't disappeared. My mom went from one dependent situation to another. She was demanding and difficult. I was young and did not set boundaries and had trouble standing up to a parent. That being said there was nothing that could be done at that point. She had paid for her living space and I was not going to put her out. I had accepted that it was a permanent situation. Through the years this has caused me much stress and anxiety. Your home should be your sanctuary. As mom got older she has become even more difficult. I have learned to limit my time with her for my own sanity. This has caused me much guilt and sadness. Guilt for feeling the way I do about my own mother and sadness that I do not have the relationship with my mom that I would like. Never the less, I have never let my feelings be shown to her. Every demand is met and she lives like a queen. My siblings each live within an hour, but my family and I take the brunt because she's with me. She has a better relationship with my siblings because it's pretty much long distance.

This arrangement was always intended to be permanent. I had accepted that many years ago. This was our forever home. When we bought this home, the area was fairly quiet, with little traffic, but still convenient to everything. That has changed in recent years. Commercial development came that included heavy traffic and crime. It is very possible that I will have a parking lot right outside my backyard in the very near future. So while it was never our intention to move, we have talked about selling the house on a few occasions in the past year thinking that it might be time to get out. Never to the point of being ready to take any action on it. The opportunity for this other house just came up and might not even come to fruition. The house could be modified to come up with a living space for my mother, but it would not be equivalent to what she has now. The location is a little more secluded with not much activity going on around-especially with my husband and I at work during the day. For this reason, and more, I thought my mother would actually be happier in a 55+ community as that's where she has probably belonged since the beginning. As I mentioned earlier, my mother has gotten more difficult to deal with in recent years and some of that may be due to depression from being alone so much. Now that the kids have grown, there is not a lot of activity around this house.

My mother does not drive much-maybe a 1 mile radius from our current home. The senior community is in the general vicinity and will allow her to get to the same places she does now and also be there when/if she gives up driving altogether. The suggestion that she move into the senior community was going to come up in the near future even if we weren't going to sell the home.

The reasons we haven't yet discussed this with her were two-fold. One because it was just a thought until recently and two because we don't have that kind of relationship. If she doesn't like what's being said-she throws a tantrum.

People asked about how much she helped out with kids, house, etc. My children were 4 and 7 when she moved in. She helped occasionally, but not as much as one would think.

She has been treated like a queen by my husband, my children and myself-and she would and does say that if asked. We have been right there with her through everything. I am extremely proud of the way my children and I have treated her and have nothing to be ashamed of. I have often been told that there is a special place in heaven for me. She is my mom and I love her. So I have to admit, I asked for opinions and I truly want them as I always feel that there are two sides to a story and sometimes your just two close to see it-but I know that I have done far and above to be called callous and greedy.

What I was asking opinions about was what I owed her for her original investment. I probably used the wrong terminology to say she lived for "free". What I was trying to say is that she had the benefit of home ownership without the responsibilities. She paid for the addition of her living space. She has not paid taxes, insurance and maintenance. This has allowed her to winter elsewhere and live a very comfortable, if not lavish, lifestyle. She was never asked to contribute and she never offered. We would not have taken anything, even if offered. There were times when this caused some resentment. Because her lifestyle, she never saved for the future and never anticipated having to pay to live somewhere else.

I know this a very long rambling-but hoping it will clear up some of the assumptions.
 
Here is the problem, obviously you and DH have been thinking about moving for awhile but failed to let her know this and now you have found something and want to sell the house and STILL have not talked to her about it. How about quit asking strangers what to do and talk to your mother and see what she says. Who knows it may go better then you think or worse, BUT it will now be out there.
 
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@mom2rtk - I swore I quoted you.

I can see making a decision as a couple and then talking to mom about it after.
I do think it is strange that 19 years went by without any discussion about mom living on her own at some point. If she was 54/55 when she moved in that is pretty young. Definitely young enough to be able to move on as an independent woman.
The OP said she was willing to help with her mom's expenses so I think that kind of counts as paying mom. I do think she should offer her something from the proceeds though, not sure what a fair amount would be.

Just saw the OP's update, that explains why there was no talk about moving out at some point.
 
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Here is the problem, obviously you and DH have been thinking about moving for awhile but failed to let her know this and now you have found something and want to sell the house and STILL have not talked to her about it. How about quit asking strangers what to do and talk to your mother and see what she says. Who knows it may go better then you think or worse, BUT it will now be out there.
I agree, as long as family includes parents.
 
Ok-lot's to clarify. I did not include a lot of details to my original post because it was already lengthy and I wasn't really asking if I was making the right decision for my mom-but here goes. I did not have a good relationship with my mother growing up. Once I got married, moved out of the house and had children, we became much closer. My dad died suddenly at a young age. My husband and I had young children and hectic jobs. My siblings were younger, single and not at a point in their lives that they would interested in helping out with my mother. My husband and I decided that it would be easier to have my mother live with us then to have to help take care of another residence. I also thought that was what my dad would have wanted me to do. Once suggested to my mother, she jumped on it and we jumped through many hoops to be able to add the apartment on to our existing house. The apartment itself does not add value to the home since it is only approved for the time that my mother resides in it. It cannot be sold as a 2-family residence and the kitchen will most likely have to be dismantled. The reason it adds value to the home is due to the additional square footage. Anyway, it became apparent very quickly after she moved in with us that it was not a good situation-there were reasons we butt heads when I was growing up and they hadn't disappeared. My mom went from one dependent situation to another. She was demanding and difficult. I was young and did not set boundaries and had trouble standing up to a parent. That being said there was nothing that could be done at that point. She had paid for her living space and I was not going to put her out. I had accepted that it was a permanent situation. Through the years this has caused me much stress and anxiety. Your home should be your sanctuary. As mom got older she has become even more difficult. I have learned to limit my time with her for my own sanity. This has caused me much guilt and sadness. Guilt for feeling the way I do about my own mother and sadness that I do not have the relationship with my mom that I would like. Never the less, I have never let my feelings be shown to her. Every demand is met and she lives like a queen. My siblings each live within an hour, but my family and I take the brunt because she's with me. She has a better relationship with my siblings because it's pretty much long distance.

This arrangement was always intended to be permanent. I had accepted that many years ago. This was our forever home. When we bought this home, the area was fairly quiet, with little traffic, but still convenient to everything. That has changed in recent years. Commercial development came that included heavy traffic and crime. It is very possible that I will have a parking lot right outside my backyard in the very near future. So while it was never our intention to move, we have talked about selling the house on a few occasions in the past year thinking that it might be time to get out. Never to the point of being ready to take any action on it. The opportunity for this other house just came up and might not even come to fruition. The house could be modified to come up with a living space for my mother, but it would not be equivalent to what she has now. The location is a little more secluded with not much activity going on around-especially with my husband and I at work during the day. For this reason, and more, I thought my mother would actually be happier in a 55+ community as that's where she has probably belonged since the beginning. As I mentioned earlier, my mother has gotten more difficult to deal with in recent years and some of that may be due to depression from being alone so much. Now that the kids have grown, there is not a lot of activity around this house.

My mother does not drive much-maybe a 1 mile radius from our current home. The senior community is in the general vicinity and will allow her to get to the same places she does now and also be there when/if she gives up driving altogether. The suggestion that she move into the senior community was going to come up in the near future even if we weren't going to sell the home.

The reasons we haven't yet discussed this with her were two-fold. One because it was just a thought until recently and two because we don't have that kind of relationship. If she doesn't like what's being said-she throws a tantrum.

People asked about how much she helped out with kids, house, etc. My children were 4 and 7 when she moved in. She helped occasionally, but not as much as one would think.

She has been treated like a queen by my husband, my children and myself-and she would and does say that if asked. We have been right there with her through everything. I am extremely proud of the way my children and I have treated her and have nothing to be ashamed of. I have often been told that there is a special place in heaven for me. She is my mom and I love her. So I have to admit, I asked for opinions and I truly want them as I always feel that there are two sides to a story and sometimes your just two close to see it-but I know that I have done far and above to be called callous and greedy.

What I was asking opinions about was what I owed her for her original investment. I probably used the wrong terminology to say she lived for "free". What I was trying to say is that she had the benefit of home ownership without the responsibilities. She paid for the addition of her living space. She has not paid taxes, insurance and maintenance. This has allowed her to winter elsewhere and live a very comfortable, if not lavish, lifestyle. She was never asked to contribute and she never offered. We would not have taken anything, even if offered. There were times when this caused some resentment. Because her lifestyle, she never saved for the future and never anticipated having to pay to live somewhere else.

I know this a very long rambling-but hoping it will clear up some of the assumptions.
You need to speak with her.
 
Ok so I'll chime in now that you've given us an update. For the record I'm not one who says you have to let your parents move in with you because you have to but...your situation falls under a different scenario for me. So here goes some of my comments:

Anyway, it became apparent very quickly after she moved in with us that it was not a good situation
Sooooooooooo 19 years later and she's still living with you even though you knew from the beginning it was not a good situation? Sounds like it's 19 years too late here.

I did not have a good relationship with my mother growing up.
Honestly this probably has a lot more to do with how you're feeling than you may realize.

This arrangement was always intended to be permanent.
Okay......so first it wasn't a good situation from the beginning and it was always intended to be permanent so there really shouldn't be a huge question about whether she goes with you or not if you move. IDK sorta sounds like permanent means permanent regardless of the location of the house or not. Of course there may come that day where medically speaking you are unable to give the care your mother needs and honestly that to me is different than what is going on.

One because it was just a thought until recently and two because we don't have that kind of relationship.
You really don't need to have a fantastic relationship with some to you know be honest with them. I would hope that you are able to be the bigger person here and step up and have that frank conversation with the person living with you rather than seeing as having a discussion with the mother you didn't have the best relationship with-she deserves that honest conversation.

Because her lifestyle, she never saved for the future and never anticipated having to pay to live somewhere else.
So here's the thing though I get what you mean by lifestyle but truth is unless she knew that eventually she would need to move out and live somewhere else I can't blame her for not necessarily saving for that time..you yourself said it was always meant to be permanent and she did pay for the addition.

_________________________________________
So personal opinion here with what you've initially said and what you've updated with I would honestly look for a place where she can be with you as well. I really am not trying to be mean here at all but you set up the expectation and so to speak made the bed you lie in instead of having these conversations over time at the very least so you all were prepared and on the same page. I do get moving because the location is not what it used to be but it's the exclusion of your mom that I'm not for given your situation.
 
I think op and dh need to talk to mom. If mom is angry or throws a tantrum (op's words), then so be it. It has to be put out there.

If mom paid for the extension, then she should be given that amount.

Op, it sounds to me that you've tried to do the right thing, also sounds like mom can be difficult. So talk to her, and hope for the best.
 
I haven't read all the replies here, and would want to just add my thought without any other influences.

First, no, I do not think that she has the right or entitlement to any proceeds.
She has had her accommodations and living expenses paid for many years now.

Now, does this mean that she should get NO financial consideration at all...
That is a totally different matter, and a very personal judgement call.

You mention that no future possibilities or options were discussed or decided upon prior to her moving in to your home.
(a quick and major action, based on emotion, with a lack of reasonable consideration or any written expectations or financial contracts)
Prior to the money that she invested into the renovations.
So, officially and legally... Since there were no financial contracts or personal contracts involved....
The home is in your name and your DH's name only...
She really has no claim. No leg to stand on.

OP, you seem to have your heart set on moving to this new home and new environment, for you and your spouse.
And, I agree that this is okay!!!!
I will support you on that, 110%

I will say that it seems very obvious that you harbor your resentment for all the sacrifices that you have made, and your DH has made, to have her in your home for all of these years.
Your resentment might be very understandable!!!!!
Especially since you seem to describe your morther as entitled and as a manipulator.
However, as you move forward, you might need to work thru some of that, and make important decisions based on objective and reasonable and rational financial and personal factors.
NOT on any negative emotions.
This might be very hard... And you really don't have the luxury of time, if this is an opportunity that requires some immediate actions.

I guess what I am saying that I see the possibility of taking permanent decisions based on raw, heightened, emotion...
Both on the side of your mother, and this opportunity to buy this new property that you are just 'in love with'.
Which would be similar to the decision that was made for her to move into your home.

Sorry I can't offer any more than that!!!
But, this is a complex and personal kind of thing that I don't think posters on a chat-board can really give you a simple answer.
 
Okay, having seen that you did post an update.... and this was not a positive relationship or situation from the get-go....
I agree....
You need to be strong enough to place your and your husband's needs and wishes ahead of a parents.

Because she is your mother, and a precedent has been set... I would want to do as much for her as possible.
But, no, I would not feel any obligation to hand her any proceeds from the sale of your home...
I would make certain that she was not even privy to any information about how much the property sales for, and how much, if any, money is left over after paying the necessary expenses to get her set up in her new accommodations... buying your new home... and getting set up in your new home.

These are financial and private matters between a husband and a wife....
Three is a crowd.
 
I appreciate the update, OP.

I still find myself sad that you weren't clear with her up front. I don't understand why you are not happy with her spending habits through the years if this was supposed to be a permanent solution. You didn't do her any favors letting things drag on up until now like it was permanent.

I don't think anyone is obligated to have their parent live with them. But this situation was muddied up by the investment she made in the upgrades to your home and the fact that she's lived for some time under the impression that it was going to be permanent.

You need to have an open conversation with her about this yesterday.
 
I also would like to know. Is it just a coincident that after 19 years, when the children have left home, you suddenly realize you want to be alone and that it was a mistake not to discuss how long the arrangement would last? Seriously? After 19 years and a permanent addition to the house? It all sounds strange to me.

And I think that if she paid for the addition, and paid for her utilities, she wasn't living "for free"


My thoughts exactly. How much did maintenance cost on HER addition (forget about the maintenance on your part of the house)? And, taxes on the addition? She PAID for the place she's living in. And, she is deserving of some back, minus a modest deduction for the maintenance and taxes. It's doubtful to me that the appreciated value of the addition is LESS than the amount you actually paid in maintenance and taxes. It's the only "right" thing to do. We bought my MIL a house to live in, and I would NEVER (and I do mean NEVER) sell it out from under her. That would be just plain wrong. Wrong. My husband and her fight like cats and dogs sometimes, but she is his MOTHER and that means something. At least to me.
 

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