Looking for Advice....

[appleplie]

Sorry this is so long......

Looking for opinions and/or advice-My DM moved in with dh and I 19 years ago after the sudden passing of my DF. DM was 54 at the time and had never been on her own. DM paid for the addition of an in-law apartment on our home which included some additional living space for us as well. DH and I have taken care of all maintenance on the exterior of the house for the last 19 years-including DM’s apartment. Paid all of the taxes, homeowners insurance, repairs, water bills, etc.

Our children have now grown and left the nest. DH and I have been considering selling the house for a little while now. Our neighborhood has changed and we live near a busy thoroughfare. We were recently presented with an opportunity to purchase a home that we are in love with in a very quiet, off-the-beaten path, rural area. There will be no room for DM and I don’t think it would be a good move for her anyway-she’s 74 now. Doesn’t drive much and this would be very isolated for her.

Here’s my dilemma. DM will be very angry. The decision was made very quickly for her to move in with us after the death of DF. In hindsight, this was a bad decision that should not have been made so quickly at such a difficult time. DM went from a situation where she was very dependent on DF to where she is very dependent on myself and DH. She has always been very good at manipulating others to get her way. It is time for DH and I to be free to make decisions that are best for our future and while I feel comfortable with this decision, I also have a lot of guilt. There was never any discussion about the what ifs when she moved in. DM has made a lot of assumptions in her own mind that she would be with DH and I until the end. Because of this, she is not prepared neither mentally nor financially to live on her own. My plan is to move her into a 55+ apartment complex where she will be around people her age. This complex also provides regular transportation to the grocery store and other trips and activities. I think she will love it once she accepts it. The biggest problem is financial and this is the part that I’m really torn. We will be selling our home. DH does not feel that DM is entitled to any of the proceeds and I’m not sure. The apartment and additional living space has contributed to the current value of the home, however, DM has never contributed to the upkeep and taxes during the past 19 years and has essentially lived for free during this time with the exception of her utilities. She will be able to afford her rent for the new apartment, but it will drastically impact her standard of living-which will also make her very angry and resentful. I am willing to help her out with some expenses-but do I owe her more than that?? Any thoughts??

 

[Marchand63]

Who paid for the upgrades to your home?

 

[mi*vida*loca]

If she hasn't paid any bills in 19 years she should have a lot of money saved up.

I think her paying for the upgrades but not paying any bills for 19 years evens itself out. But I would give her something after the house is sold. Just because I would feel crappy sending her to be alone at that age. This is really difficult. She's 74 and never been on her own. Maybe having a little cushion money wise will soften the blow.

 

[Marchand63]

If she hasn't paid any bills in 19 years she should have a lot of money saved up.

I think her paying for the upgrades but not paying any bills for 19 years evens itself out. But I would give her something after the house is sold. Just because I would feel crappy sending her to be alone at that age. This is really difficult. She's 74 and never been on her own. Maybe having a little cushion money wise will soften the blow.

She's your mom, she changed your diapers, your scraped knees, my feeling now is your turn to take care of her. Just think do you want your children to cut you loose.

 

[gotomu212]

I personally don't think she's entitled to the proceeds from the sale. Your names are on the deed/mortgage. She may have put money into the house almost 20 years ago to make it more comfortable but I wouldn't feel like it gave her any ownership stake. She's lived free for 2 decades; that seems like enough.

That being said I would expect that I might need to help my mom out if the new apartment really cuts into her standard of living. I don't know what that means for your mom- it could mean no vacation every year or it could mean can't ever go out to eat and can't afford normal everyday things. If it was the latter I'd expect to help a little more.

 

[gotomu212]

She's your mom, she changed your diapers, your scraped knees, my feeling now is your turn to take care of her. Just think do you want your children to cut you loose.

I just want to reply to this sentiment- and I know opinions really vary- but no, I don't expect or want my children to need to care for me for 30 years+. I really hope they visit and help if I have a medical issue, but we specifically plan and save so we aren't overly reliant on our children in our older age.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

After you sell the house, I would give Mom some money as a little cushion. Have you worked out the rent and other expenses on her new place? If not, I would lay it all and go over it with her so she can see how much it will cost her each month and how much she will have leftover. Personally, I think a 74-year old lady would enjoy living in a community with people her age and lots of planned activities. If she doesn't enjoy being alone, would she rather have a larger apartment with a roommate? Perhaps another single lady who would also like some company?

The only thing I would consider is her health and how long she will be able to live on her own. If it comes to a point where she can no longer live alone, would you have a room for her in your new home? Would there be money to hire a caregiver to come to her apartment? Does she have long-term care insurance in case she needs a nursing facility? I don't think you're being selfish at all and it's not like you're just kicking mom out to fend for herself. I would, however, look to the future and make sure the "what-ifs" are covered.

 

[loves to dive]

I completely supported my parents toward the end of their lives. For my Daddy it was only about 5 years that I completely supported him but I partially supported him for about 5 years before that. My Mom lived about 10 years after my Daddy died and I completely supported her during those years. I paid the mortgage on the house they were living in and she continued to live there until about 3 months before she died when I had to move her into a nursing home which I paid for. I didn't blink an eye about supporting either one of them even though I have 5 older brothers who contributed nothing financially. For a few years a couple of them lived with them to help out. I just figured it was my turn to take care of them since they raised me and were always there when I needed help. While it's totally up to each person to make that decision and I don't think anyone should feel obligated as to what to do, I do think maybe you should discuss it with her first and maybe offer to help pay some of her bills.

 

[Marchand63]

I just want to reply to this sentiment- and I know opinions really vary- but no, I don't expect or want my children to need to care for me for 30 years+. I really hope they visit and help if I have a medical issue, but we specifically plan and save so we aren't overly reliant on our children in our older age.

Good for you but as a couple caring for one parent with altzheimers & another with COPD, different sides of marriage. The money we spend is all good. My parents & DH's scacrified for their children so the least we can do is take care of them. Guess we just have a closer family dynamic than cut them loose who cares

We have planned for nursing home care but in our parents day was not an option.

 

[Marchand63]

I completely supported my parents toward the end of their lives. For my Daddy it was only about 5 years that I completely supported him but I partially supported him for about 5 years before that. My Mom lived about 10 years after my Daddy died and I completely supported her during those years. I paid the mortgage on the house they were living in and she continued to live there until about 3 months before she died when I had to move her into a nursing home which I paid for. I didn't blink an eye about supporting either one of them even though I have 5 older brothers who contributed nothing financially. For a few years a couple of them lived with them to help out. I just figured it was my turn to take care of them since they raised me and were always there when I needed help. While it's totally up to each person to make that decision and I don't think anyone should feel obligated as to what to do, I do think maybe you should discuss it with her first and maybe offer to help pay some of her bills.

Ok just want to say I love you say Daddy, not Df.

 

[loves to dive]

Ok just want to say I love you say Daddy, not Df.

Daddy's girl and southern. I'm not fond of the abbreviations for things, doesn't take me any longer to type the word. I actually type Mom but I called her Mama.

 

[Marchand63]

Daddy's girl and southern. I'm not fond of the abbreviations for things, doesn't take me any longer to type the word. I actually type Mom but I called her Mama.

Yup speaking as Mema, said like BBT Sheldon, loved it. Not southern but MA

 

[NHdisneylover]

Sorry this is so long......

Looking for opinions and/or advice-My DM moved in with dh and I 19 years ago after the sudden passing of my DF. DM was 54 at the time and had never been on her own. DM paid for the addition of an in-law apartment on our home which included some additional living space for us as well. DH and I have taken care of all maintenance on the exterior of the house for the last 19 years-including DM’s apartment. Paid all of the taxes, homeowners insurance, repairs, water bills, etc.

Our children have now grown and left the nest. DH and I have been considering selling the house for a little while now. Our neighborhood has changed and we live near a busy thoroughfare. We were recently presented with an opportunity to purchase a home that we are in love with in a very quiet, off-the-beaten path, rural area. There will be no room for DM and I don’t think it would be a good move for her anyway-she’s 74 now. Doesn’t drive much and this would be very isolated for her.

Here’s my dilemma. DM will be very angry. The decision was made very quickly for her to move in with us after the death of DF. In hindsight, this was a bad decision that should not have been made so quickly at such a difficult time. DM went from a situation where she was very dependent on DF to where she is very dependent on myself and DH. She has always been very good at manipulating others to get her way. It is time for DH and I to be free to make decisions that are best for our future and while I feel comfortable with this decision, I also have a lot of guilt. There was never any discussion about the what ifs when she moved in. DM has made a lot of assumptions in her own mind that she would be with DH and I until the end. Because of this, she is not prepared neither mentally nor financially to live on her own. My plan is to move her into a 55+ apartment complex where she will be around people her age. This complex also provides regular transportation to the grocery store and other trips and activities. I think she will love it once she accepts it. The biggest problem is financial and this is the part that I’m really torn. We will be selling our home. DH does not feel that DM is entitled to any of the proceeds and I’m not sure. The apartment and additional living space has contributed to the current value of the home, however, DM has never contributed to the upkeep and taxes during the past 19 years and has essentially lived for free during this time with the exception of her utilities. She will be able to afford her rent for the new apartment, but it will drastically impact her standard of living-which will also make her very angry and resentful. I am willing to help her out with some expenses-but do I owe her more than that?? Any thoughts??

Oh I don't envy you at all--this situation sounds like a complete mess with no really good outcome for anyone. I have to say I am a bit amazed that there was no conversation about how long the situation would last, or what to do if you eventually sold the house when the addition was put on---adding an addition cannot be done overnight with no planning and it's a sizeable investment, how is it that none of the three of you brought this up?

Anyway---the best I can think of to do now is to ask your realtor to appraise what the house would be worth with and without the addition. Is the mother in law suite a desireable feature in your area that substantially raises the value of your home? Or is it just the locaiton and main home layout that is really selling it and the apartment adds very little?
In the latter case, I think is is fair to only give your mom a bit for her contribution
If the former, OK maybe subtract 20% for maintenence and taxes, but her investment shouldn't go fully to you.
She did pay her utilities it sounds like. How much did the addition really add to your taxes and upkeep beyond what you would have paid anyway? Did she contribute in other ways? Was she ever babysitting or there to give a safety net for tweens staying home "alone"? Etc?

As far as her being angry, quite honestly, I cannot blame her. Reading this, it appears you and your DH have realized for a long time that she thought the living arrangements were permanent and never spoke to her about your differeing wants/needs so that she could plan accordingly and save, etc
And NOW you've found a home you want to move into and planned where she, an apparently able minded person, will move (or at least what type of situation) without so much as talking to her about it at all. Even if she is often manipulative or difficult, your behaviour is also underhanded, controlling and not fair or a mature, adult way of handling things.

I hope you can all actualy sit down and talk and ask what she wants/plans/expects and listen to her and try to work with her before laying out your "this is what we have planned for oursleves and you as well"

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

Sorry but there's no way I could cut my parent loose at this stage of their life without help. Do you owe your mother? I mean if you have to ask...

I'm always surprised at how easily our society, in general, throws away the old especially for financial gain.

 

[Marchand63]

Oh I don't envy you at all--this situation sounds like a complete mess with no really good outcome for anyone. I have to say I am a bit amazed that there was no conversation about how long the situation would last, or what to do if you eventually sold the house when the addition was put on---adding an addition cannot be done overnight with no planning and it's a sizeable investment, how is it that none of the three of you brought this up?

Anyway---the best I can think of to do now is to ask your realtor to appraise what the house would be worth with and without the addition. Is the mother in law suite a desireable feature in your area that substantially riases the value of your home? Or is it jsut the locaiton and main homelayout that is really sellign it and the apartment adds very little?
In the latter case, I think is is fair to only give your mom a bit for her contribution
If the former, OK maybe subtract 20% for maintenence, but her investment shouldn'T go fully to you.

As far as her being angry, quite honestly, I cannot blame her. Reading this, it appears you and your DH have realized for a long time that she thought the living arrangements were permanent and never spoke to her about your difereing wants/needs so that she could plan accordingly and save, etc
And NOW you've found a home you want to move into and planned where she, an apparently able minded person, will move (or at least what type of situation) without so much as talking to her about it at all. Even if she is often manipulative or difficult, your behavious is also underhanded and not fair or a mature, adult way of handling things.

I hope you can all actualy sit down and talk and ask what she wants/plans/expects and listen to her and try to work with her before laying out your "this is what we have planned for oursleves and you as well"

Sorry but there's no way I could cut my parent loose at this stage of their life without help. Do you owe your mother? I mean if you have to ask...

I'm always surprised at how easily our society, in general, throw away the old especially for financial gain.

Can you guys adopt us?!?!

 

[Lynne M]

After my dad passed away last year, I more or less moved in with my 84 year old mom for 8 or 9 months. Mostly to help her find another place to live, move there, and get the house ready to sell. But also to keep her company, since she lived in a very isolated rural area, and you have to drive some distance to get to "civilization."

She's a fiercely independent sort and in decent shape physically, but she's 84, and taking care of a house and property was just too much for her. Just worrying about maintenance, what needed to be fixed, who to call to fix it, etc, was massively stressful for her. And she drives, some, but not great distances or in busy areas.

She's now living in a continuing care community. Right now, she's in the "independent living" apartment building. She has a lovely 2-bedroom apartment, dinner is included and served in the dining room nightly, there are a TON of activities and transportation around the campus (and town) to get to them. Twice-a-month housecleaning is included, the trash room is right down the hall, the mail room is also down the hall. Cable, utilities, maintenance and wi-fi are included. The overall cost is quite reasonable.

I call it independence with a safety net. She drives to the grocery store and senior center and lunch with her friends, goes about her day and does what she wants, but she no longer has to worry about who to call if the refrigerator stops working, or doing heavy cleaning like scrubbing floors. Her place has those medical alert buttons in the bathrooms, and they gave her a wristband to wear around the campus, so she feels safe and knows someone will be right there if she needs help, day or night.

A place like that sounds ideal for your mom.

 

[Marchand63]

After my dad passed away last year, I more or less moved in with my 84 year old mom for 8 or 9 months. Mostly to help her find another place to live, move there, and get the house ready to sell. But also to keep her company, since she lived in a very isolated rural area, and you have to drive some distance to get to "civilization."

She's a fiercely independent sort and in decent shape physically, but she's 84, and taking care of a house and property was just too much for her. Just worrying about maintenance, what needed to be fixed, who to call to fix it, etc, was massively stressful for her. And she drives, some, but not great distances or in busy areas.

She's now living in a continuing care community. Right now, she's in the "independent living" apartment building. She has a lovely 2-bedroom apartment, dinner is included and served in the dining room nightly, there are a TON of activities and transportation around the campus (and town) to get to them. Twice-a-month housecleaning is included, the trash room is right down the hall, the mail room is also down the hall. Cable, utilities, maintenance and wi-fi are included. The overall cost is quite reasonable.

I call it independence with a safety net. She drives to the grocery store and senior center and lunch with her friends, goes about her day and does what she wants, but she no longer has to worry about who to call if the refrigerator stops working, or doing heavy cleaning like scrubbing floors. Her place has those medical alert buttons in the bathrooms, and they gave her a wristband to wear around the campus, so she feels safe and knows someone will be right there if she needs help, day or night.

A place like that sounds ideal for your mom.

Sounds awesome but did you have a discussion or just drop a bomb lik OP is implying? DM"will be very angry".

 

[Pea-n-Me]

You may have the right to do it, but I'm not sure it's the right thing to do. At least not without talking to your mother about it first, and coming to an agreement together. It doesn't seem like she's being given much choice. And if you want this to go smoothly, it would ideally be a mutual decision.

I am in a very similar situation with my mother. We outgrew our home once our children were born, but stayed, in large part, because of the in-law set up we had for her. It was easy for her to get to the store and take walks, and it was also easier for me to help her from home given my work schedule and having young children, etc. We just made it work. And I agree, things do "even out" after, say, 20 years, for sure. But it was more than that. It became her home, too. She is 92 soon.

Did she help with your four children when they were growing up? My mother did. She's been here for their whole lives. Part of the reason we did the in-law in the first place is because my DH had grown up with his grandmother as part of the household and it was very special for him. It hasn't been all roses with my mother (not sure it ever is with any inter-generational family living together), but it is what it is, and I think, overall, it's been good for my kids. I would not have dreamed of kicking her out. Things get more difficult as parents age. Right now we all have to help her a bit. I like seeing my kids give of themselves. My DD's work with her has helped solidify her choice of career as a nurse. Nothing like practical experience! (Although my mother is still mostly independent, her mobility is greatly decreased and we have to help her with things and take her everywhere, etc.)

Again, I think, if that's what you want to do, you have the right to do it. But you will need to go about it the right way. I have the feeling your mother will not only be angry, but hurt. I think, even if you didn't discuss it (which I have a hard time believing), she had a reasonable expectation that she'd be there for the long haul. These are the types of things that need to be very well planned out, on both sides, before going into a situation like this. It's not for everybody. Have you considered finding a different place that does have an in-law apt on it? Or do you just want to be on your own now?

 

[mi*vida*loca]

She's your mom, she changed your diapers, your scraped knees, my feeling now is your turn to take care of her. Just think do you want your children to cut you loose.

I agree. In my culture we don't do nursing homes. The elders live with someone. I grew up in a neighborhood where most homes had a grandparent living in the house. Multigenerational households are the norm for me.

My mother will live with either my brother or myself. My grandma has 6 daughters and right now lives with my mom even though she's self sufficient (drives, takes two vacations a year, works VERY PT). My mom and aunts just prefer she spend her limited income on traveling and living life since she spent her whole life raising them. My other grandma lives alone because she's stubborn and refuses to live with my uncle.

 

[Marchand63]

I agree. In my culture we don't do nursing homes. The elders live with someone. My mother will live with either my brother or myself. My grandma has 6 daughters and right now lives with my mom even though she's self sufficient (drives, takes two vacations a year, works VERY PT). My mom and aunts just prefer she spend her limited income on traveling and living life since she spent her whole life raising them. My other grandma lives alone because she's stubborn and refuses to live with my uncle.

Same here. My brother moved in as well as my nephew, my DS & DIL(sahm) pitch in with my parent with altzheimers. My DMIL, copd, has DH, DD, DBIl & another DS. No one will ever be cut loose or NH bound.