Looking for Advice....

[SMD]

Did she help out in other ways such as housework or childcare that, while not going directly towards taxes and upkeep also offset things financially? I'd consider at least giving her back what she paid for the addition out of the sale proceeds.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I just want to reply to this sentiment- and I know opinions really vary- but no, I don't expect or want my children to need to care for me for 30 years+. I really hope they visit and help if I have a medical issue, but we specifically plan and save so we aren't overly reliant on our children in our older age.

For my family it's not about the money. It's about family. My grandparents were a huge part in the upbringing of the grandkids. My paternal grandmother watched DD for 5 years while I worked. At 17 and 11 my kids still go to her house (she lives two blocks away) everyday after school to spend time with her (and get gmoms great cooking!). We believe in the whole village to raise a child thing though. I can't imagine just visiting my mom or grandparents once in a while and just helping them when they have a medical issue.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

I think it's shockingly acceptable to cut our elderly parents loose when they need us the most. What goes around comes back around. My father is in his 80's and in quite good health but although he lives across the country from me he knows I will never put him in a nursing home unless he wants to be there and he can come live with my family anytime. And hell, my father can be a PIA but he's still my father and I consider it my duty as his daughter. It's the circle of life.

 

[disykat]

I agree that OP needs to discuss this with her mom and help her sort out choices and take her investment into account, but the sudden turn to nursing homes doesn't fit in this thread IMO. We're talking about a woman in her early 70's living in an apartment here, not a nursing home!

No one ever wants to be in a position where they require 24 hour nursing care - at any age. But residential senior living with concierge help is a far cry from a nursing home! We're not even talking assisted living here, it is an apartment with minimal senior support. I don't see this as dumping mom at all. They are ready to make a change, probably due to an empty nest, upcoming retirement, or whatever. Obviously mom's needs should be taken into account, but OP and her husband don't have to live in a place they don't want to be for the next 20 years to do that.

OP and her family need to discuss this move, they also need to discuss what will happen once mom can no longer live on her own. Those are really two separate issues at this point.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I agree that OP needs to discuss this with her mom and help her sort out choices, but the sudden turn to nursing homes doesn't fit in this thread IMO. We're talking about a woman in her 70's living in an apartment here, not a nursing home!

I feel like telling your 74 year old mom she has to live on her own after never living on her own and living with you for 19 years is the same as telling your kid that upon high school graduation they need to get out. It's just bad in my eyes.

 

[NFLDERS]

Did she help out in other ways such as housework or childcare that, while not going directly towards taxes and upkeep also offset things financially? I'd consider at least giving her back what she paid for the addition out of the sale proceeds.

And, where did she and her husband live before his death. Sale of their home ie?

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

I feel like telling your 74 year old mom she has to live on her own after never living on her own and living with you for 19 years is the same as telling your kid that upon high school graduation they need to get out. It's just bad in my eyes.

Exactly. I mean, we want to tell them to get out. We wish they'd get out but... lol

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I just want to reply to this sentiment- and I know opinions really vary- but no, I don't expect or want my children to need to care for me for 30 years+. I really hope they visit and help if I have a medical issue, but we specifically plan and save so we aren't overly reliant on our children in our older age.

My DH and I do, too, but that's not the case for everyone, and especially not for previous generations.

After you sell the house, I would give Mom some money as a little cushion. Have you worked out the rent and other expenses on her new place? If not, I would lay it all and go over it with her so she can see how much it will cost her each month and how much she will have leftover. Personally, I think a 74-year old lady would enjoy living in a community with people her age and lots of planned activities. If she doesn't enjoy being alone, would she rather have a larger apartment with a roommate? Perhaps another single lady who would also like some company?

The only thing I would consider is her health and how long she will be able to live on her own. If it comes to a point where she can no longer live alone, would you have a room for her in your new home? Would there be money to hire a caregiver to come to her apartment? Does she have long-term care insurance in case she needs a nursing facility? I don't think you're being selfish at all and it's not like you're just kicking mom out to fend for herself. I would, however, look to the future and make sure the "what-ifs" are covered.

I, myself, would enjoy living in that type of community, but my mother definitely would not have. Nor would she have liked a roommate. My mother would've done ok in an apartment, but truth is, she enjoyed being around family, especially her grandkids. She told me recently that one of the best times of her life was when my kids were small and she and a babysitter I hired took them all over the place. Seems strange, I know, that she would prefer that time to when her own kids were little, but that period of her life was filled with hardship and stress, and the period with me was pretty carefree. She could enjoy the fun of caring for kids without the stress of it, basically. That actually made me feel pretty happy for her, that she saw it as a joy rather than an inconvenience. Now it's the other way around, i.e. my kids help care for her, so I agree with the pp who said that things come around full circle. I forgot to say that my mother's been with us for 23 years now so she was only around 69-70 when she came to live with us. There's a world of difference between how she was then, and how she is now.

 

[DisTXMom]

If your DM is going to feel resentful and angry, there isn't a lot you can do to change that. I have family always looking to be hurt and it sucks. I'm sorry. Sounds like you and DH are ready to move forward with a separate life without DM living with you. If that's where you are, it's probably best to just move forward with the decision and not waver in your messaging. Your reasons are wanting to move to this rural area that is not going to be a good option for her. That being said, I think helping her with a contribution toward her savings fund out of the sale proceeds is probably appropriate. Having cared for her these last 19 years is awesome, but if she's hurt and resentful, recognizing that part of what has been sold was paid for by her could help. She is still going to be hurt, but she won't feel like it is "unfair". Good luck.

 

[disykat]

I feel like telling your 74 year old mom she has to live on her own after never living on her own and living with you for 19 years is the same as telling your kid that upon high school graduation they need to get out. It's just bad in my eyes.

Hmm. Maybe so, but since I've encouraged my kids to find ways to work towards independence that involve living elsewhere soon after high school graduation I guess we just disagree that this is bad.

IMO, mom can understand that her DD's family situation has changed now and maybe a different living situation makes sense. I think she needs to be in on the discussion/decisions, but I don't see it as a bad thing. These are pretty prime years for everyone that could be happy for everyone.

My parents are in the "need my help" phase now, but I was really glad I had the relatively short lived "no kids" phase while my parents were still independent. (And I say short lived because my youngest just graduated from college and as soon as I made the last tuition payment I quit working full time to be more available to my parents.)

 

[Marchand63]

I agree that OP needs to discuss this with her mom and help her sort out choices and take her investment into account, but the sudden turn to nursing homes doesn't fit in this thread IMO. We're talking about a woman in her early 70's living in an apartment here, not a nursing home!

No one ever wants to be in a position where they require 24 hour nursing care - at any age. But residential senior living with concierge help is a far cry from a nursing home! We're not even talking assisted living here, it is an apartment with minimal senior support. I don't see this as dumping mom at all. They are ready to make a change, probably due to an empty nest, upcoming retirement, or whatever. Obviously mom's needs should be taken into account, but OP and her husband don't have to live in a place they don't want to be for the next 20 years to do that.

OP and her family need to discuss this move, they also need to discuss what will happen once mom can no longer live on her own. Those are really two separate issues at this point.

Not at this moment but OP & her DH are making unilateral decisions to impact he DMs life. They state her addition adde to the value of the sale, how much? She also implies this will downgrade her DM's lifestyle while upgrading theirs All this with no discussion with her mother, fair, oh heck no!!!!

 

[NHdisneylover]

Not at this moment but OP & her DH are making unilateral decisions to impact he DMs life. They state her addition adde to the value of the sale, how much? She also implies this will downgrade her DM's lifestyle while upgrading theirs All this with no discussion with her mother, fair, oh heck no!!!!

Yeah. I don't even live on the same continent as my parents (my dad lives in Mexico and my mom half and half Mexico and the US). It's not likely either of my parents would move in with us. We have an 800 sq ft condo and it would be hard to get them German resideny permits. And yet, not being someone who plans on having fmaily move in, it still strikes me that the OP and her husband are being controlling and unfair to her mother in making all these plans without any input from her (and in having gone for nearly two decades knowing Mom exepcted the current situation to be permanent and never mentioneing otherwise---most epsecialy when Mom invested in putting an addition onto their home).

I don't think OP has meant to be like this and she probably hasn't seen the other side of the coin until pointed out here (I hope she can look at it now and not be offended that I and others pointed out issues), but the fact remains that OP and her DH are making all sorts of plans for an able minded and able bodied adult, including selling off her investment at no profit to her, without even discussing it with her.

 

[disykat]

Not at this moment but OP & her DH are making unilateral decisions to impact he DMs life. They state her addition adde to the value of the sale, how much? She also implies this will downgrade her DM's lifestyle while upgrading theirs All this with no discussion with her mother, fair, oh heck no!!!!

We agree on that so I'm not sure why you think you're debating me. If you read my posts I've clearly said so. I just don't see it as putting mom in a nursing home.

 

[DisneyDebbie]

Wow, I can understand where some of you are coming from, but not all family dynamics can handle multi-generational living. There are several options for elderly care that don't have to involve moving in with you or bumping them to the curb.

OP, I think you need to have a talk with your Mom, explain your thoughts on a new house and the available space, distance away, etc... Then maybe your Mom can think for herself and figure out what would be best for her (unless you know for a fact she would insist on living with you)

As for the sale of your current home, I probably would give her a percentage of the sale, even though she was living rent free, my guilt would get to me if I didn't, or maybe I would give her money monthly from the proceeds to help with her bills.

I'm going to be completely honest, my MILaw moved her mother in with her when dementia started ( and we live on the same street). It was 5 years of he** for all of us, and I will never do that to my kids, or possible grandkids. Dh and I have discussed when/if his Mom needs help, we will do everything possible to keep her properly cared for. If that means rotating shifts living with her, hiring nurses, etc...

 

[Marchand63]

We agree on that so I'm not sure why you think you're debating me. If you read my posts I've clearly said so. I just don't see it as putting mom in a nursing home.

Sorry if it came off that way, didn't mean it to. Just being close to this type of situation decision I might be a little hyper sensitive. Again sorry

 

[mom2rtk]

What is the home worth? How much did she spend for the upgrades?

Honestly, I can't imagine how what you proposed (without discussing with her) will go over well. Why not at least give her back what she spent on the addition, if for no other reason than to ease her acceptance of this new life you have decided on for her?

 

[Hikergirl]

OP, I agree with the pp who said her living there rent free for 19 years covers her contribution to the upgrade of the house.
I would want to give her something out of the proceeds though.

I think you are in an unfortunate position since you let her be dependent on you for the last 19 years. I don't think there is any way to soften the blow, sorry.
FWIW, I don't see you as tossing her aside. You took care of her for 19 years. She was young when she moved in with you and had 19 years to learn how to become an independent adult. You can't put your life on hold because she didn't take responsibility for herself during that time.
Good luck to you, it sounds like you will definitely need it.

 

[wenrob]

Sorry this is so long......

Looking for opinions and/or advice-My DM moved in with dh and I 19 years ago after the sudden passing of my DF. DM was 54 at the time and had never been on her own. DM paid for the addition of an in-law apartment on our home which included some additional living space for us as well. DH and I have taken care of all maintenance on the exterior of the house for the last 19 years-including DM’s apartment. Paid all of the taxes, homeowners insurance, repairs, water bills, etc.

Our children have now grown and left the nest. DH and I have been considering selling the house for a little while now. Our neighborhood has changed and we live near a busy thoroughfare. We were recently presented with an opportunity to purchase a home that we are in love with in a very quiet, off-the-beaten path, rural area. There will be no room for DM and I don’t think it would be a good move for her anyway-she’s 74 now. Doesn’t drive much and this would be very isolated for her.

Here’s my dilemma. DM will be very angry. The decision was made very quickly for her to move in with us after the death of DF. In hindsight, this was a bad decision that should not have been made so quickly at such a difficult time. DM went from a situation where she was very dependent on DF to where she is very dependent on myself and DH. She has always been very good at manipulating others to get her way. It is time for DH and I to be free to make decisions that are best for our future and while I feel comfortable with this decision, I also have a lot of guilt. There was never any discussion about the what ifs when she moved in. DM has made a lot of assumptions in her own mind that she would be with DH and I until the end. Because of this, she is not prepared neither mentally nor financially to live on her own. My plan is to move her into a 55+ apartment complex where she will be around people her age. This complex also provides regular transportation to the grocery store and other trips and activities. I think she will love it once she accepts it. The biggest problem is financial and this is the part that I’m really torn. We will be selling our home. DH does not feel that DM is entitled to any of the proceeds and I’m not sure. The apartment and additional living space has contributed to the current value of the home, however, DM has never contributed to the upkeep and taxes during the past 19 years and has essentially lived for free during this time with the exception of her utilities. She will be able to afford her rent for the new apartment, but it will drastically impact her standard of living-which will also make her very angry and resentful. I am willing to help her out with some expenses-but do I owe her more than that?? Any thoughts??

The Rule people.

I am not one who would be able to handle multi generational living. Our personalities are way too different and it would not go well. That said, you let mom move in with you, built an add on and she's been there for 19 years. That sounds pretty permanent IMO. Now you're going to just kick her to the curb? The time to have done that was when she was still young and able to build an independent life for herself. Nice apartment aside it's not fair to do to her at this stage without even discussing it with her. And yeah, I think if you're going to put her out and go on your merry way you should help her out financially. Do you owe it to her? Technically, no. But you did help create a situation where she's dependent on you. You should help her create a situation where she can be independent of you.

 

[mom2rtk]

It sort of makes me cringe to see the OP justify giving mom nothing from the proceeds because they paid all the taxes and upkeep. It's the kind of argument you would make with a stranger in court, not with Mom.

OP, it doesn't matter here if you are right or justified. This is Mom. It's a very complicated situation. I think it's going to be hard to keep the peace even if you DO give her something from the proceeds.

 

[mom2rtk]

Did she help out in other ways such as housework or childcare that, while not going directly towards taxes and upkeep also offset things financially? I'd consider at least giving her back what she paid for the addition out of the sale proceeds.

I'd like to know the answer to this as well.