Latest School Shooting

[luvsJack]

Not everyone used seat belts, until they started passing laws you have to, hard to believe now. What you find is laws do work with most people. I know it is not a 100% solution, nothing ever is. But passing laws requiring guns to be locked if there are under 18 in the house would see most people follow the law. Yes we know not everyone, just like not everyone wears a seat belt but I think you would find most would.

Its common sense laws that do not hurt any legitimate gun owner, why are we blocking those. That is what frustrates everyone. We have the NRA buying off politicians with 60 million an election stopping common sense laws. That is why the existing members in congress will be in for it this election. In California we know its a republican in the mailers if they do not mention what party they represent, funny but true

How are you going to enforce it? Go into people’s homes?

Seat belt laws are a little different. Police can easily see if the law is not being followed. Not the same as in someone’s house. By the time they find out someone isn’t keeping their guns locked up, the deed will be done. And we still haven’t stopped the next school shooting.

I mean I have no problems with guns being locked up. Dh’s are right now. ODS keeps his under lock and key. My bil built a special closet in his house to keep his gun safe in and the closet is locked as well as the safe. I really don’t know anyone who would have an issue with it. I am just not sure it’s an answer to the problem.

OTOH, ods’s step son is an avid hunter. He has his own guns that his grandfather and his dad buy for him. They are kept locked up so they aren’t just out and about if other kids come over but he does have access to them so that he can go hunting with his dad and granddad and when ds is gone to work. More teen boys around here would fall into that same category.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

No one said that, at least I don't remember any poster saying that.

"the absence of a church centered life" is pretty clear.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don’t disagree with you but but I don’t completely disagree with her either. Yeah I know that doesn’t make sense lol.

I can’t help but wonder if we have desensitized our kids of violence. On one hand, my son plays violent video games, has for a long time. So my first answer is that video games aren’t a problem. But then I think about the fact he didnt actually grow up with them. He didn’t grow up with the constant violence being in his face. These kids have literally grown up with violence in their face 24/7.

As for the church centered life, I am not sure what the pp meant but when I think of the whole church every Sunday, going to church functions, etc; it’s about family. Doesn’t matter what faith or if it has anything to do with faith but when people were doing more of that kind of stuff, they were spending time with the family. They went to these things as a family and spent time with other families. A lot of people don’t do any of that anymore.

Add to that the decline in two parent households and it can be a problem. And having one parent not in a child’s life can cause some mental health problems.

I am in no way saying that any of this is what is causing these things to happen but any of it could be a contributing factor.

I was talking about having two parents and the church comment not the rest.

1) Well going to church is of certain faiths. There are synagogues, there are mosques, there are temples and monestaries, etc.

2) Being religious or centering your life around religion does in no way mean you will have a good upbringing and to say that... ETA: and not being religious is in no way mean you will not have a good upbringing.

Now there is a difference in saying valuing families (and including non-blood families too) and saying you need 2 parents and church. The world is vast and comprises of people from all over.

 

[Colleen27]

To the bolded: And its right back to doing something about guns, which is why these debates go round and round and round. Make it harder than just breaking into your dad's gun safe? This kid did not own guns. He didn't buy guns. He used his Dad's guns who very possibly would have had those guns regardless of any new gun laws. So, we would have been right back at square one.

We have got to find a way to 1. protect our kids, 2. find out what is causing these shooters to do what they do and stop it, 3. and yes, more background checks and metal health checks on those that do purchase weapons. But 3 isn't going to do anything without 1 and 2. for the simple reason that for some of these shooters they are NOT gun owners. Their parents are. If their parents can pass the background and mental health checks then there will still be guns in the household. You can hold the parents responsible for what their kid does with their gun but is that going to stop it? Do you really think little Johnny is going to stop and think about whether his parents are gong to get in trouble? He is about to kill every one he knows and possibly himself. Just don't think its going to cross his mind.

Has anyone said anything about a gun safe or even a locked cabinet? I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere, which leads me to think that Dad (like *many* parents of older children) believed that his kid "knew better" than to touch his guns and didn't bother with such precautions. A lot of the gun owners I know, my husband included, think of locking guns up as a stage like baby-proofing rather than as a lifelong habit. Most of the teens I know could very easily get a gun just by walking into their own or a friend's home when no adult is home and taking it, either because there is no lock at all in the way or because the lock on their decorative case is more comparable to the one on my 9yo's diary than that of a gun safe or quality locking case. And that needs to change, IMO. Safe storage should be the norm, not just something you do when the kids are little.

And FWIW, I don't expect that penalties for unsafe storage would deter little Johnny. I expect they'd prompt most adults to think twice about leaving guns laying around or stored without security, making it harder for little Johnny to get the gun in the first place.

I'm kind of in favour of metal detectors - they'd go bleep for guns AND knives. On the other hand, it would require investment and wouldn't be effective against foreign weapons. I fear there is no easy answer.

No, there really isn't.

Metal detectors aren't as easy to implement as they seem, because schools have so many entrances that are used for different purposes. So even if you have a metal detector at the student entrance that is used for the school day, someone could come in a back/side entrance during a sporting event or other after-hours time and stash a weapon in a locker for later use. So now you've got to install metal detectors at those doors as well, and staff them to screen during everything the building is used for - band concerts, sporting events, etc. And you have to account for the delays at entry, lock down classrooms that use direct-access doors (like band rooms or shop classes). None of that is insurmountable, of course, but it is more than just the installation to figure out.

 

[Polybound]

With all due respect people come from all walks of life. It would be ignorant to assume that others need to be just like you and those around you-speaking towards your 2 parents, church comments.

with all due respect, things seem to be going down hill fast without the aforementioned.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

with all due respect, things seem to be going down hill fast without the aforementioned.

That's your perception though you are of course fine to have.

I'm of the more accepting mind-frame, I have friends that I've grown up with and I know individuals of multiple faiths and sexual orientations and upbringings with and without 2 parents to have that sort of opinion.

A strong support system (which is different to different people) means a lot more to me and that support system is a lot more open than in your viewpoint.

 

[luvsJack]

I was talking about having two parents and the church comment not the rest.

1) Well going to church is of certain faiths. There are synagogues, there are mosques, there are temples and monestaries, etc.

2) Being religious or centering your life around religion does in no way mean you will have a good upbringing and to say that... ETA: and not being religious is in no way mean you will not have a good upbringing.

Now there is a difference in saying valuing families (and including non-blood families too) and saying you need 2 parents and church. The world is vast and comprises of people from all over.

Yes, yes, I know there are all those things. Replace “church” with any building.

I was just trying to describe what I think of when I hear the phrase “church centered” life. It doesn’t matter what you call the building you worship in or that you even worship. Just the family aspect of it. The take that day or those days each week and be with family and with other families with similar values, doing whatever wholesome activities of your choice. Eating together as a family— with family, with friends, whatever.

As for the upbringing; there is a certain amount of values and morals missing. It’s not dependent on religion of course.

Many kids have a one parent family but have other people in their lives that replace the missing parent. But many do not. And the ones without that do have a harder time. And a missing parent can cause mental health issues for a child—missing parent type person I guess I should say.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes, yes, I know there are all those things. Replace “church” with any building.

I was just trying to describe what I think of when I hear the phrase “church centered” life. It doesn’t matter what you call the building you worship in or that you even worship. Just the family aspect of it. The take that day or those days each week and be with family and with other families with similar values, doing whatever wholesome activities of your choice. Eating together as a family— with family, with friends, whatever.

As for the upbringing; there is a certain amount of values and morals missing. It’s not dependent on religion of course.

Many kids have a one parent family but have other people in their lives that replace the missing parent. But many do not. And the ones without that do have a harder time. And a missing parent can cause mental health issues for a child—missing parent type person I guess I should say.

Yes but you see now you're expanding on what was a limited viewpoint..that really was my whole point. See my above comment for my thoughts.

 

[longboard55]

How are you going to enforce it? Go into people’s homes?

Seat belt laws are a little different. Police can easily see if the law is not being followed. Not the same as in someone’s house. By the time they find out someone isn’t keeping their guns locked up, the deed will be done. And we still haven’t stopped the next school shooting.

I mean I have no problems with guns being locked up. Dh’s are right now. ODS keeps his under lock and key. My bil built a special closet in his house to keep his gun safe in and the closet is locked as well as the safe. I really don’t know anyone who would have an issue with it. I am just not sure it’s an answer to the problem.

OTOH, ods’s step son is an avid hunter. He has his own guns that his grandfather and his dad buy for him. They are kept locked up so they aren’t just out and about if other kids come over but he does have access to them so that he can go hunting with his dad and granddad and when ds is gone to work. More teen boys around here would fall into that same category.

Is there a single thing you think of to improve on concerning gun safety, we get the same response from every suggestion. At some point we stop asking. Why have any laws if there is always someone who will not follow them

 

[Polybound]

That's your perception though you are of course fine to have.

I'm of the more accepting mind-frame, I have friends that I've grown up with and I know individuals of multiple faiths and sexual orientations and upbringings with and without 2 parents to have that sort of opinion.

A strong support system (which is different to different people) means a lot more to me and that support system is a lot more open than in your viewpoint.

I see my perspective reported nightly on the e

That's your perception though you are of course fine to have.

I'm of the more accepting mind-frame, I have friends that I've grown up with and I know individuals of multiple faiths and sexual orientations and upbringings with and without 2 parents to have that sort of opinion.

A strong support system (which is different to different people) means a lot more to me and that support system is a lot more open than in your viewpoint.

i see my perspective played out on the news every night.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

i see my perspective played out on the news every night.

Well shoot with over 325 million in the U.S. alone I guess you've gotten to know everyone via the news.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Oh no Gumbo! That's terrible .

It really was. .

 

[PollyannaMom]

A strong support system (which is different to different people) means a lot more to me and that support system is a lot more open than in your viewpoint.

I agree with you that the support system doesn't need to be tied to a religion or a particular type of family, but I also think many kids no longer have a support system at all - or they "do" on the surface, but the adults in their lives are so stressed themselves that it isn't effective.

 

[luvsJack]

Is there a single thing you think of to improve on concerning gun safety, we get the same response from every suggestion. At some point we stop asking. Why have any laws if there is always someone who will not follow them

As I said I don’t have a problem with the law, but is it going to even help slow down these events?

It’s not whether someone will follow the law, it’s whether it’s going to help these situations.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

Is there a single thing you think of to improve on concerning gun safety, we get the same response from every suggestion. At some point we stop asking. Why have any laws if there is always someone who will not follow them

I know not addressed to me and not a solution for these mass shootings but I’d start with enforcing the laws on the book, and stop just turning them back out to the streets to prey on other law abiding citizens.
http://www.wkrg.com/news/mobile-cou...-revolving-door-of-repeat-offenders/983390021

 

[CdnCarrie]

SOME parents. Some are good now about locking them up.

Were the guns this boy used locked up or just left out? Do we know?

A lot of boys this one's age hunt with their fathers. They are going to know how to get in to get the guns. So are we going to make a law that says a father cannot tell his teen age son how to get to the guns? Teens hunt, shoot in competitions, etc. We aren't talking about a small child here.

Yes.

 

[luvsJack]

Yes.

Until what age?

Take my grandson. He has hunted his whole life. He has had gun safety courses several times. He has complete respect for a gun and owns a couple. He owns his own hunting dogs. He buys them, he takes care of them, he trains them. He goes hunting. His gun is unloaded when he gets in the truck and loaded when he gets to where he is hunting. He brings it home, unloaded and locks it in the safe until the next time he goes hunting. He is 16. So, in your mind it should be illegal for him to have access to his guns so that he can hunt with his dogs when he is more cautious and more alert to gun safety than most grown men.

 

[declansdad]

with all due respect, things seem to be going down hill fast without the aforementioned.

Religion and churches have been at the center of almost every major conflict in the history of the world. Going to church doesn't guarantee anything.

 

[kamik86]

You’re also opening a can of worms regarding things like kids swiping the car & killing someone. We have a friend whose daughter died in this manner - tboned by a 12 year old girl in a stolen car.

Yeah I can't think of anything else that you would be liable for what someone does with your stolen property. Although I could see liability if it was proven that weapons weren't properly secured as another poster stated (but then we need laws on how they must be secured)

I didn't say that. And you have no idea if that's the case or not. 2 of the mass shooters of recent mass shootings, one being the movie theater shooter, were interviewed by police and both said they played violent video games every day. No I'm not saying these are specifically the only causes, but there are many factors that contribute to mental derangement and there's no doubt in my mind that graphic violence on the internet, video games, movies, TV, the absence of 2 parents, the absence of a church centered life, the absence of mandated mental illness services are all major contributors to the problem.

I always hate this argument. I know many many people that play violent video games and aren't violent people. My husband is one of them. He honestly has one hell of a temper but it has never been unleashed violently on anyone once he was past 10 (I didn't know him then but have heard there were a few incidents before then). Honestly I think the games help him with that.

Me I really violence and honestly can't even play the games at that level (God of War for example... they even have cool stories but are so violent I just can't do it... had another friend tell me the story behind the last one as it was a really cool story involving the norse gods)

Banning violent video games and not the actual weapons is even more of a case of hurting law abiding citizens that just want to play a hobby they enjoy.

 

[kamik86]

I don’t disagree with you but but I don’t completely disagree with her either. Yeah I know that doesn’t make sense lol.

I can’t help but wonder if we have desensitized our kids of violence. On one hand, my son plays violent video games, has for a long time. So my first answer is that video games aren’t a problem. But then I think about the fact he didnt actually grow up with them. He didn’t grow up with the constant violence being in his face. These kids have literally grown up with violence in their face 24/7.

As for the church centered life, I am not sure what the pp meant but when I think of the whole church every Sunday, going to church functions, etc; it’s about family. Doesn’t matter what faith or if it has anything to do with faith but when people were doing more of that kind of stuff, they were spending time with the family. They went to these things as a family and spent time with other families. A lot of people don’t do any of that anymore.

Add to that the decline in two parent households and it can be a problem. And having one parent not in a child’s life can cause some mental health problems.

I am in no way saying that any of this is what is causing these things to happen but any of it could be a contributing factor.

To the bolded, I don't know the age of your son but... I grew up with violent video games. Mortal Kombat was played by my sister and brother in law alot, including with us kids. You could turn on or off the really bad blood but I saw and played with it on several times. It wasn't quite as graphic then, I mean the processors couldn't have it in the level of movie animation that they can now but it was still really violent. There were also guns in my home since I was born. My father hunts. There were several that weren't locked up granted they were so old and uncared for (old ones he hung on the wall) I doubt they would have fired properly. He took the ammo out of his guns and would leave the gun around during hunting season I can picture where it was... as for the ammo... I knew where that was too he didn't tell me but I remember running into it looking for something else becuase it took me a while to realize what it was.

In my area so many people hunt from a young age that many many people grew up with this violence. The number of people that do this are much much lower.