Latest School Shooting

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Ok so he didn't grown up with them only because he didn't have the first few Mortal Kombat games. He is only a few years older then me so they were definitely out before he was an older teen. I wouldn't have choosen those games and I doubt my parents would have bought them for me but well.. I had older siblings with their own houses and I played the games they played.

He may have played them at other people’s house I am not sure. But back then they just didn’t stay on their games 24/7. It seems like now there are so many kids that do nothing else.
 
I'm sure some games can have a less than positive impact on young lives - games like Doom, Marathon and Quake, where you're given a variety of guns, axes and chainsaws and told to fight your way out of a series of levels. Not too wholesome. Perhaps Carmageddon? Where you get in a car and run over innocent people for points? I'm sure they can't be good for young impressionable minds. Whether it pushes them to violent temptations is another matter. But the age restrictions on these games ARE there for good reason.
 
I am just saying why there would be a push back against such a law. Here they have to be under the direct supervision until they are 12, which is a little young imo. For a lot of states 16 seems to be the magic age. The parent/guardian/grandparent having to unlock the gun safe would be all great but once the gun is handed to the kid, he still has it. (just to be clear, my grandson's guns are locked up when not in use, he just has the ability to get them) Have we actually done anything or just made folks feel better?

And yes, the gun safe does keep the gun in the possession of the owner. Honestly the reason most people have them is to stop them from being stolen. I do think all guns should be properly locked up in a home. To keep young children from getting them and to keep them from getting in the hands of criminals. Ours are locked up as is most people's I know. Gone are the days of past when you would walk into a lot of homes and see guns just leaning up against the wall or hanging on the wall. For most people this isn't a reality anymore anyway.

Again, do we know how the boy in Sante Fe obtained the guns? Were they locked up or just laying around?

If someone legally owns a gun, why would they not report the theft?

But presumably when the gun is handed to the child by a responsible parent/adult, he's using it under the supervision of that adult, not just throwing it in the trunk of his car and driving off. Handing a kid a gun at deer camp isn't the same thing as having that gun available to him 24/7 should he choose to use it. Yes, the gun is in his hands either way but one is in a controlled setting meant for shooting while the other is uncontrolled and unsupervised.

I wish the days of wall-mount gun racks and the firearms equivalent of china cabinets were a thing of the past, but around me, they aren't. For some, it is because they feel like a gun that is locked up does them no good (going back to that perception of danger/fear-based ownership thing that was talked about upthread) and for some it is just a matter of how it has always been done being good enough. And honestly, I think there's a $$$$ aspect too - proper gun safes aren't cheap, and a lot of people around here don't have much money to spare.

I haven't seen anything reported about how the Santa Fe shooter's father stored his guns.

And as far as not reporting theft, just because someone can legally purchase a gun doesn't mean they intend to keep it. I'm a cynic when it comes to this because of certain elements I've known through family members, but it really isn't unusual for a criminal to have a significant other purchase a weapon and pass it off, only to later claim it was sold or stolen if it is ever traced back following its use in a crime.
 
This part struck me because it reminded me of a couple of other discussions I've either had or heard lately.

One was about the overscheduled nature of childhood today, and how kids don't have the kind of time to play and daydream that they used to. - I wonder if this is one factor in that "rejection of all that is good or decent in him"? - Are the kids just not figuring out who they are, and what kind of people they want to be, early enough to stop them from even considering these horrible crimes?


The other was about the "pendulum swing" that's happening because of recent efforts to get girls more involved in STEM, etc. We're constantly reminding girls that "you're just as good as the boys" but we're not reminding boys that "you're just as good as the girls" and I really think the self-esteem of boys is taking a hit. I think it's one of the reasons that the typical profile of these shooters is a young male.

Boys don't need to be told they're "just as good as girls" because they still get the message that they're better loud and clear in most aspects of our society. Yes, education has become more serious at earlier ages and developmentally that favors girls, but in terms of actual outcomes, the boys are still "winning". In terms of earning power, in terms of leadership roles, in terms of political representation, in terms of upward mobility. Just not in terms of elementary school grades.

I think a big part of the reason the shooter profile tends to be young, relatively affluent white boys is because they're raised to believe they're owed more than they're getting from life, and are never taught to deal with the slights and rejections that pretty much every other group in our society is expected to just deal with as part of being alive. It isn't that they're falling behind, it is that they're so used to being ahead that equal treatment feels like an insult.
 


But presumably when the gun is handed to the child by a responsible parent/adult, he's using it under the supervision of that adult, not just throwing it in the trunk of his car and driving off. Handing a kid a gun at deer camp isn't the same thing as having that gun available to him 24/7 should he choose to use it. Yes, the gun is in his hands either way but one is in a controlled setting meant for shooting while the other is uncontrolled and unsupervised.

I wish the days of wall-mount gun racks and the firearms equivalent of china cabinets were a thing of the past, but around me, they aren't. For some, it is because they feel like a gun that is locked up does them no good (going back to that perception of danger/fear-based ownership thing that was talked about upthread) and for some it is just a matter of how it has always been done being good enough. And honestly, I think there's a $$$$ aspect too - proper gun safes aren't cheap, and a lot of people around here don't have much money to spare.

I haven't seen anything reported about how the Santa Fe shooter's father stored his guns.

And as far as not reporting theft, just because someone can legally purchase a gun doesn't mean they intend to keep it. I'm a cynic when it comes to this because of certain elements I've known through family members, but it really isn't unusual for a criminal to have a significant other purchase a weapon and pass it off, only to later claim it was sold or stolen if it is ever traced back following its use in a crime.

Very different here then. I haven’t seen a gun rack on a wall in a home in many years. Another difference here is most don’t just go to a camp to hunt. They go on someone’s land or government land in the woods. My grandson goes on his grandfather’s land or his father’s family land.

So for him to have to have an adult retrieve his gun would go something like this: “hey mom, me and Jimmy are going hunting with his cousins tomorrow. I am going to stay with them tonight, I need my gun”. Mom unlocks safe and gets his gun. He takes gun and shells and leaves.
 
Boys don't need to be told they're "just as good as girls" because they still get the message that they're better loud and clear in most aspects of our society. Yes, education has become more serious at earlier ages and developmentally that favors girls, but in terms of actual outcomes, the boys are still "winning". In terms of earning power, in terms of leadership roles, in terms of political representation, in terms of upward mobility. Just not in terms of elementary school grades.

I think a big part of the reason the shooter profile tends to be young, relatively affluent white boys is because they're raised to believe they're owed more than they're getting from life, and are never taught to deal with the slights and rejections that pretty much every other group in our society is expected to just deal with as part of being alive. It isn't that they're falling behind, it is that they're so used to being ahead that equal treatment feels like an insult.

A thousand times yes!
 
Boys don't need to be told they're "just as good as girls" because they still get the message that they're better loud and clear in most aspects of our society. Yes, education has become more serious at earlier ages and developmentally that favors girls, but in terms of actual outcomes, the boys are still "winning". In terms of earning power, in terms of leadership roles, in terms of political representation, in terms of upward mobility. Just not in terms of elementary school grades.

I think a big part of the reason the shooter profile tends to be young, relatively affluent white boys is because they're raised to believe they're owed more than they're getting from life, and are never taught to deal with the slights and rejections that
pretty much every other group in our society is expected to just deal with as part of being alive. It isn't that they're falling behind, it is that they're so used to being ahead that equal treatment feels like an insult.
ing
Yes! And kids are not taught to shake things off and move on. If someone calls you a dummy you don't need your mom to call the school and launch a bullying investigation and tell every teacher that they aren't supervising closely enough and get 5 treats from the store to help you get over it and talk about it ad nauseum for days to make sure your self esteem isn't damaged. Parents are so busy and self absorbed that children get attention from crying or reporting the wrongs that happened to them throughout the day rather than focusing on the 100's of positives. Kids in my class can get awards, praise throughout the day, do great work and be complimented for it, have fun with their friends, eat a wonderful breakfast and lunch, bring 4 snacks and a water bottle so they are never hungry or thirsty, and be given brain breaks and fun times throughout the day to help them "decompress" yet if they are reprimanded for one thing (no punishment, just reminders about appropriate behavior) they go home and tell their parents who spring into action to right the wrong of having someone tell their kid they might have made a mistake or error in judgement.

I just walked up on a parent today who didn't know I could hear and was telling her friend that she talked to me and I told her that I reminded the students to bring their water bottles outside for field day but I must be lying because her son told her I didn't. She then sat there and watched me tell the class to grab their towels and water twice and half still walked off without them. I don't know if she really can't put two and two together and see that maybe her son wasn't listening or forgot or really thinks I would lie about water bottles? She aelso told him to tie his shoes three times and he yelled "I will!" at her but never did it and she didn't blink an eye.

Kids see their parents undermining authority and never learn respect. They have no joy because they don't learn true appreciation for what they have. They feel like someone will always back up their poor choices and believe them when they say untruths to get themselves out of trouble. As they get older this manifests as entitlement and combined with mental illness or instability can lead to the ultimate poor choice. Add that to kids with major behavioral issues who are shuffled through the school system by blaming teachers and peers for their problems and I fear there will be more and more violent incidents.
 


ing
Yes! And kids are not taught to shake things off and move on. If someone calls you a dummy you don't need your mom to call the school and launch a bullying investigation and tell every teacher that they aren't supervising closely enough and get 5 treats from the store to help you get over it and talk about it ad nauseum for days to make sure your self esteem isn't damaged. Parents are so busy and self absorbed that children get attention from crying or reporting the wrongs that happened to them throughout the day rather than focusing on the 100's of positives. Kids in my class can get awards, praise throughout the day, do great work and be complimented for it, have fun with their friends, eat a wonderful breakfast and lunch, bring 4 snacks and a water bottle so they are never hungry or thirsty, and be given brain breaks and fun times throughout the day to help them "decompress" yet if they are reprimanded for one thing (no punishment, just reminders about appropriate behavior) they go home and tell their parents who spring into action to right the wrong of having someone tell their kid they might have made a mistake or error in judgement.

I just walked up on a parent today who didn't know I could hear and was telling her friend that she talked to me and I told her that I reminded the students to bring their water bottles outside for field day but I must be lying because her son told her I didn't. She then sat there and watched me tell the class to grab their towels and water twice and half still walked off without them. I don't know if she really can't put two and two together and see that maybe her son wasn't listening or forgot or really thinks I would lie about water bottles? She aelso told him to tie his shoes three times and he yelled "I will!" at her but never did it and she didn't blink an eye.

Kids see their parents undermining authority and never learn respect. They have no joy because they don't learn true appreciation for what they have. They feel like someone will always back up their poor choices and believe them when they say untruths to get themselves out of trouble. As they get older this manifests as entitlement and combined with mental illness or instability can lead to the ultimate poor choice. Add that to kids with major behavioral issues who are shuffled through the school system by blaming teachers and peers for their problems and I fear there will be more and more violent incidents.

Yet the exact same scenario is played out across other countries and we don't have this violence. There must still be a missing piece of the puzzle.
 
Boys don't need to be told they're "just as good as girls" because they still get the message that they're better loud and clear in most aspects of our society. Yes, education has become more serious at earlier ages and developmentally that favors girls, but in terms of actual outcomes, the boys are still "winning". In terms of earning power, in terms of leadership roles, in terms of political representation, in terms of upward mobility. Just not in terms of elementary school grades.

I think a big part of the reason the shooter profile tends to be young, relatively affluent white boys is because they're raised to believe they're owed more than they're getting from life, and are never taught to deal with the slights and rejections that pretty much every other group in our society is expected to just deal with as part of being alive. It isn't that they're falling behind, it is that they're so used to being ahead that equal treatment feels like an insult.

14-18 year old boys do not look at or care that much about earning power, political representation and upward mobility. That comes a little later than high school.

The PP has a point. If teachers and other adults are told to always build up the girls, where does that leave the boys? We can't say "oh well they are ahead in grammar school so the girls should be fine" but we can't say "well at 35 that boy is going to be earning more so it should be ok" either. Either one could be detrimental to our kids.

Just as in everything, we (society) tries to right a wrong and we tend to go to far. If our boys (as a whole) are suffering form low self esteem, its not because they "are used to being ahead", its because they don't think they are good enough or smart enough or whatever. We need to figure out why.
 
This is the state of this country now and IMO there will be no change until the youth of today who have been through these terrifying times of school shootings are of age to vote and/or run for office. The current crop of voting public and politicians clearly have no intention of doing anything other than arguing about what "won't work".

I've said before...if SANDY HOOK didn't spur change, then nothing will.
 
This time at a middle school :sad:

I'd say I can't even imagine, but I taught middle school today, and I can imagine those poor kids if something like that happened here.

We were doing a whole-class novel, and had "read around the room" time (when they're allowed to spread out into comfortable spots instead of staying at their desks.) Every spot under a counter was taken.
 
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i'm honestly upset. i know i might start sounding annoying posting on this thread constantly, but with today's school shooting, i feel the urge to comment my thoughts. i have an internet friend, and her sister was in the school where today's shooting took place. it was absolutely devastating for her and her sister.

my friends and i are all scared of going to school. we are in high school.
a few months ago my friends and i were planning on what to do/where to hide, if someone came into our school with any kind of weapon and started attacking us students. we shouldn't have to do this, but we feel the need considering our school receives threats and the principal and administration don't care at all.

three months ago, someone from my school allegedly threatened to shoot up my school. the principal knew about it and did not notify any form of authority. we have about 15 doors to our school, some of which are unlocked. in the morning, we have more than 3 entrances into the school. how are we supposed to sit in class and focus when there could be a suspect around us.

any loud bang or noise frightens us, if the fire alarm is pulled-- we all freeze. this is not a very healthy way to live.
 
i'm honestly upset. i know i might start sounding annoying posting on this thread constantly, but with today's school shooting, i feel the urge to comment my thoughts. i have an internet friend, and her sister was in the school where today's shooting took place. it was absolutely devastating for her and her sister.

my friends and i are all scared of going to school. we are in high school.
a few months ago my friends and i were planning on what to do/where to hide, if someone came into our school with any kind of weapon and started attacking us students. we shouldn't have to do this, but we feel the need considering our school receives threats and the principal and administration don't care at all.

three months ago, someone from my school allegedly threatened to shoot up my school. the principal knew about it and did not notify any form of authority. we have about 15 doors to our school, some of which are unlocked. in the morning, we have more than 3 entrances into the school. how are we supposed to sit in class and focus when there could be a suspect around us.

any loud bang or noise frightens us, if the fire alarm is pulled-- we all freeze. this is not a very healthy way to live.

I feel for you, I really do and you are right you shouldn’t have to feel this way.

Your school has a procedure in place don’t they? That’s where you go or what you do. Exactly what they tell you.

Don’t assume your principal doesn’t care. You don’t know everything that is going on with administration. It could be that the threat was found to be completely nothing to worry about.

And lastly, try not to think about this so much. I know it seems like there are so many shootings happen but just as a poster said upthread, statistically it’s not likely to happen. But if you and your friends are really this afraid, talk to a teacher or your school counselor about it and what is in place to protect you. You may discover that it would not be as easy to attack your school as you think it is.
 
It's Friday. Time for another school shoot

It's Friday. Time for another school shooting.

This is a multifaceted problem. There are many factors that play into WHY this is going on. I'm going to address one of them (my opinion may or may not apply to any specific scenario as I don't know any of the perpetrators). I think that parenting plays a major role here. We have a problem in our country of parents and children being disconnected from one another. We use technology as baby sitters for our little ones. We allow tweens and younger to have their own social media accounts. We put no restrictions on internet access for our teenagers. We also allow ourselves (the parents) these indulgences. But, this is not the only issue pulling us apart.

Our kids are over scheduled. We taxi them from one activity to another with our only time together being the time spent in the car. Over time, our kids develop the impression that the way to please the parents is to be successful in activity after activity.

I also think that some parents spend more time being their child's friend than being the parent. This has created a generation of over-indulged kids who cannot deal with disappointment. In some cases, kids have rarely, if ever, been told no or had their behavior corrected.

But, I may be biased. I have 4 nephews who are all young adults ages 21-26. They have been raised with every advantage possible in our culture. of the 4, only one of them is positively contributing to society. The other 3 live at home with their parents (different parents). Two of them have "jobs" but are working fast food less than 20 hours a week. They all spend their time sitting on their duffs, playing video games all night, then sleeping all day. They indulge in alcohol, weed and who know what else. I don't think any of the 3 could pass a drug test, even if they ever had the desire to better themselves. 2 of them have failed out of college, the other never had the gumption to try. These are men who were never required to lift a finger at home, not even so much as to feed the pets, pick up their own dirty laundry, make their beds, cook a meal for themselves, or even get themselves up and fed before school...hired help for all the household tasks. Plus, they always have had every toy or electronic available as soon as it was released. To this day, they don't have to pay their own way for anything. Any money they earn is spent on drugs and alcohol. While their parents continue to provide for them.

Anyway, after that long story, my nephews did not get their parents love and attention (they still don't). What they got was their parents money. And I think there is a lot of this kind of problem in the wealthy communities that are now being overrun with drugs and violence.
 
I feel for you, I really do and you are right you shouldn’t have to feel this way.

Your school has a procedure in place don’t they? That’s where you go or what you do. Exactly what they tell you.

Don’t assume your principal doesn’t care. You don’t know everything that is going on with administration. It could be that the threat was found to be completely nothing to worry about.

And lastly, try not to think about this so much. I know it seems like there are so many shootings happen but just as a poster said upthread, statistically it’s not likely to happen. But if you and your friends are really this afraid, talk to a teacher or your school counselor about it and what is in place to protect you. You may discover that it would not be as easy to attack your school as you think it is.

our school has no procedure besides hiding.

my principal genuinely does not care. there's an article all about the situation at my school where my principal notified no one about it. after the threat happened, a girl in the grade below me asked my principal what he is doing to ensure our safety-- he completely ignored her and walked away.

i've felt like i have to worry about this because the day of the parkland shooting, i was nervously waiting for the victim's list, hoping that it wasn't one of my friends. fortunately they did not pass away, but they are friends with some of the people who did unfortunately.

i don't know, at the moment, my school just seems like a mess.
 
our school has no procedure besides hiding.

my principal genuinely does not care. there's an article all about the situation at my school where my principal notified no one about it. after the threat happened, a girl in the grade below me asked my principal what he is doing to ensure our safety-- he completely ignored her and walked away.

i've felt like i have to worry about this because the day of the parkland shooting, i was nervously waiting for the victim's list, hoping that it wasn't one of my friends. fortunately they did not pass away, but they are friends with some of the people who did unfortunately.

i don't know, at the moment, my school just seems like a mess.

Today's shooting did not result in any deaths. Your previous post referenced today's shooting. What event are you referring to here that had deaths?
 
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