Epcot to get major transformations

[lockedoutlogic]

Most people I know and including myself, when we go to Epcot, we'll do spaceship earth, test track and soarin but then move onto world showcase and I doubt I am alone in maybe having the same experience.

The future world reworking will be pretty drastic and with it being the front of Epcot, is probably going to effect crowd flows more than the expeansions at Hollywood Studios.

I agree and think futureworld Is The problem...

They pooched it 20 years ago and have let it rot since...that was a mistake shared by 2 misguided managers.

This desire to match up the showcase countries with a character from a cartoon and slap something in there...like Wall Street pictionary...isn't what will revitalize Epcot.

And "gotta use some movie IP" isn't the way either...guardians is only being used because marvels prime properties are tied to a contract they don't want to break. Can't have it both ways and not look silly.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I said it on another forum but Epcot is probably the most epic concept for a theme park ever. It's all about celebrating the human spirit and inspiring the future, or you know that was the idea

Epcot is the most brilliantly executed concept/construction of a theme park ever attempted...even the concepts/tech they attempted to encorporate in the planning in 1976 was off the grid.

And look at the build...look at the massive infrastructure and construction that had to be achieved In about 3 years to get that done...

...then look what it took 6 in ak to build for a simulator and a boat ride...

Epcot is the height of "imagineering"...there is very little debate as to this if you know the history and the development story.

And it almost bankrupted them...but they did it RIGHT...and it took awhile to get it established...and it soared...

...but they let it slide because they didn't want to pay the bill. The stockholders are ALWAYS wrong.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Because replicating the magic kingdom 4 times doesn't make sense in the long run...things come and go...

It might shock you to know that princess have NOT always been en vogue...nor will they always be. Same for disney cartoons...the whole point of the wdw complex was to offer things to insulate the business...and the more they pigeon hole everything into low attention span and frivolous retail prices...the worse the future will get in the long run.

I won't live forever (but sadly for all you...I got a ways to go )...but I want the place to be there for others past me. If you want "magic"...then that's it.

Who said anything about princesses?

I understand it's painful for people who have nostalgia for the old Epcot. I totally get that. But it's not coming back

I don't go to Orlando for culture or science or museums or history. I have plenty of that around here and there are other cities I would visit for that if I wanted more. I go to Orlando because it's fun and silly and over-the-top. Movies are fun, fiction is fun, cartoons are fun, characters are fun, superheroes are fun.....

 

[lockedoutlogic]

okay alot has happened in Epcot.

First Permits for Rat in France are filed - per Martin and others at WDWMagic.com - to open Summer of 2020.
UoE - GotG - to open 2021 along with UK ride.
Innoventions update by 2020
RoE to be updated in 2 years so 2019ish.

So by 2021 we will have quite a lot of change in EPCOT

Other than a groundwater announcement for work in France...what of that is actually happening?

I don't get this desire to promote that which isn't set? Why?

Just be patient...don't help strum up business for suggestions and opinions...

 

[umichigan10]

Epcot is the most brilliantly executed concept/construction of a theme park ever attempted...even the concepts/tech they attempted to encorporate in the planning in 1976 was off the grid.

And look at the build...look at the massive infrastructure and construction that had to be achieved In about 3 years to get that done...

...then look what it took 6 in ak to build for a simulator and a boat ride...

Epcot is the height of "imagineering"...there is very little debate as to this if you know the history and the development story.

And it almost bankrupted them...but they did it RIGHT...and it took awhile to get it established...and it soared...

...but they let it slide because they didn't want to pay the bill. The stockholders are ALWAYS wrong.

I think it cost them a billion dollars in 1970-80 dollars which is mind boggling to imagine in today's money.

I love the idea behind it. I'm too young to have visited during that time, but just the concept behind it is intriguing as heck and like you said is incredible they pulled it off. As is digging up a natural lagoon and canals in 1971, but that's another story

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm begging that if they are so determined for Marvel at WDW that it's another phase of Hollywood Studios or part of a 5th gate

Dear god, yes...

They've already strayed over the appropriate line with characters on Project:Norge...

...this would be a shark jump...

You have 11 countries and a planets worth of tech/history to draw from...
...for god's sakes please don't let TV bob do more "hey I bought that!" Shoehorned nonsense on his way out...find something appropriate

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think it cost them a billion dollars in 1970-80 dollars which is mind boggling to imagine in today's money.

I love the idea behind it. I'm too young to have visited during that time, but just the concept behind it is intriguing as heck and like you said is incredible they pulled it off. As is digging up a natural lagoon and canals in 1971, but that's another story

And that is another fantastic story (I can suggest books on it...they're around here somewhere)...the initial "2 phases" of wdw were breathtaking...the Eisner/wells "phase 3" buildout was less impressive but important for changing times....

This "phase 4" has been cruise control with a band of stock buccaneers in comparison.

You want to know why I'm critical? It's because I've done the annoying thing to learn about the details...hard to act like a 6 year old after you do...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Who said anything about princesses?

I understand it's painful for people who have nostalgia for the old Epcot. I totally get that. But it's not coming back

I don't go to Orlando for culture or science or museums or history. I have plenty of that around here and there are other cities I would visit for that if I wanted more. I go to Orlando because it's fun and silly and over-the-top. Movies are fun, fiction is fun, cartoons are fun, characters are fun, superheroes are fun.....

I think you proved my point. If you're ok with silliness...you are gonna have a hard time convincing me you appreciate the quiet elegance of thought that Epcot at least in part tried to tap into.

Even the "disneylands" did that for 30+ years. How bored would the bibbidi bobbity's be if they had to endure Dreamflight now...
...I feel like in effort to escape reality, sometimes we lose sight that learning is a part of life and shouldn't be switched off with a switch.

Parks are more than Mickey Mouse...always have been. Learning is a part of that.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I admitted that I never saw Epcot in its glory days. Did it have a "quiet elegance"? I believe you but I've never seen that version

What I see now?...overhaul is good.

Ok here's a question...what part of the rumored overhaul is bad?

 

[Lee Matthews]

I agree and think futureworld Is The problem...

They pooched it 20 years ago and have let it rot since...that was a mistake shared by 2 misguided managers.

This desire to match up the showcase countries with a character from a cartoon and slap something in there...like Wall Street pictionary...isn't what will revitalize Epcot.

And "gotta use some movie IP" isn't the way either...guardians is only being used because marvels prime properties are tied to a contract they don't want to break. Can't have it both ways and not look silly.

Guardians is an odd one. Disney seem to think it's the next Star Wars which it really isn't. The first film was awesome but I though the 2nd was average at best. I can only imagine they are determined to push on with Guardians is because it's currently the only Marvel IP they can use in WDW.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I admitted that I never saw Epcot in its glory days. Did it have a "quiet elegance"? I believe you but I've never seen that version

What I see now?...overhaul is good.

Ok here's a question...what part of the rumored overhaul is bad?

Of the overhaul rumor posted?

It's really disjointed and doesn't address the decline of future world enough:

1. Imagination needs a complete overhaul...not just an overlay.a
2. Innoventions will still be a problem if they only address half...that's an issue.
3. Guardians of the galaxy in energy is silly...just no way around that.
4. Misssion space might need to go. it just does. Not the kind of thing that's gonna last too long. Can wait on that though.
5.WOL needs to be replaced. Plain and simple...you can't try to accommodate larger crowds on a computerized ride rationing system with less things than 20 years ago.

As far as the showcase goes...why not start in the empty facilities in Germany and Japan? Start there...use what you have and then move on. I don't entirely get that strategy...because I'm not sure they have one. They are proposing pieces without trying to see if they make a puzzle.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Guardians is an odd one. Disney seem to think it's the next Star Wars which it really isn't. The first film was awesome but I though the 2nd was average at best. I can only imagine they are determined to push on with Guardians is because it's currently the only Marvel IP they can use in WDW.

It's thinly veiled...it's just "this is what we can use contractually...so everyone is gonna LOVE it"...but that's not gonna happen.

 

[amberpi]

I said it on another forum but Epcot is probably the most epic concept for a theme park ever. It's all about celebrating the human spirit and inspiring the future, or you know that was the idea

And that's why its my favorite, and probably always will be - unless they bulldoze WS and get rid of the fireworks on the lake. As I said in another thread though - Future World is a hot mess. I'm not even sure where they should go to fix it. I'm afraid we're going to get a UOE and Mission Space refresh and just fill innoventions with characters, which is ok - especially if they'd put them back in their astronaut or something outfits! I do hope they re-consider bringing back the original perspective of Epcot though.

A new pavilion would be amazing. I seriously don't care what it is - Israel, Greece, Spain, Brazil, Russia, India? I love the idea bringing more attractions to WS, but was sad to Maelstrom go. Honestly, they could have brought anything there and I would have been sad. I WISH they'd create some of the original ideas - like the German river ride and the Japanese mountain coaster idea.

Of course, I'm still hoping for some of the original resorts which were supposed to be built long before I was born, so there's that.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Of the overhaul rumor posted?

It's really disjointed and doesn't address the decline of future world enough:

1. Imagination needs a complete overhaul...not just an overlay.a
2. Innoventions will still be a problem if they only address half...that's an issue.
3. Guardians of the galaxy in energy is silly...just no way around that.
4. Misssion space might need to go. it just does. Not the kind of thing that's gonna last too long. Can wait on that though.
5.WOL needs to be replaced. Plain and simple...you can't try to accommodate larger crowds on a computerized ride rationing system with less things than 20 years ago.

As far as the showcase goes...why not start in the empty facilities in Germany and Japan? Start there...use what you have and then move on. I don't entirely get that strategy...because I'm not sure they have one. They are proposing pieces without trying to see if they make a puzzle.

I don't disagree with any of this

I don't mind if they overlay Inside Out in Imagination. Hopefully Figment will get a tribute

I think the Remy ride in France would be neat

I'm ok with overlaying the Mexico ride. I love Donald but it could use something new

I'm whatever about GoTG...but will anyone miss Ellen's Energy Adventure?

Illuminations could use a reboot

I agree that it's all just adding random pieces. I guess I see what's there and it all looks kind of random to me anyway.

 

[jade1]

Turning to EPCOT to now? Loving it.

 

[GaryDis]

I don't go to Orlando for culture or science or museums or history. I have plenty of that around here and there are other cities I would visit for that if I wanted more. I go to Orlando because it's fun and silly and over-the-top. Movies are fun, fiction is fun, cartoons are fun, characters are fun, superheroes are fun.....

, museums are fun, science is fun, culture is fun.

And that's the problem, Museums get plenty of visitors, and kids seem to love science museums. It may not be something to draw you to Orlando, but it should still be possible for you and many others to have fun doing such things as part of a visit to WDW, as long as things are maintained and kept up to date. I remember kids having a blast in the play areas at Imagination and Wonders of Life. Innoventions used to be cool for everyone. Street performers were fun in WS, as were the the double decker buses and the parade.

I wonder if it's just the label of being educational that turns people off the old Epcot, without the reality of how enjoyable it could be at the same time.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

, museums are fun, science is fun, culture is fun.

And that's the problem, Museums get plenty of visitors, and kids seem to love science museums. It may not be something to draw you to Orlando, but it should still be possible for you and many others to have fun doing such things as part of a visit to WDW, as long as things are maintained and kept up to date. I remember kids having a blast in the play areas at Imagination and Wonders of Life. Innoventions used to be cool for everyone. Street performers were fun in WS, as were the the double decker buses and the parade.

I wonder if it's just the label of being educational that turns people off the old Epcot, without the reality of how enjoyable it could be at the same time.

Couldn't agree more.

Part of it is the instant gratification culture...part of it - frankly - Is that the disney designers and managers of the 1970's were just wiser people...

They WANTED to build something different. Inline with original disney thinking...they didn't want 15 clones of Disneyland. It was supposed to be both a different experience and require the customers to try it. That was all by design.

 

[umichigan10]

Of the overhaul rumor posted?

It's really disjointed and doesn't address the decline of future world enough:

1. Imagination needs a complete overhaul...not just an overlay.a
2. Innoventions will still be a problem if they only address half...that's an issue.
3. Guardians of the galaxy in energy is silly...just no way around that.
4. Misssion space might need to go. it just does. Not the kind of thing that's gonna last too long. Can wait on that though.
5.WOL needs to be replaced. Plain and simple...you can't try to accommodate larger crowds on a computerized ride rationing system with less things than 20 years ago.

As far as the showcase goes...why not start in the empty facilities in Germany and Japan? Start there...use what you have and then move on. I don't entirely get that strategy...because I'm not sure they have one. They are proposing pieces without trying to see if they make a puzzle.

I don't even care if they add inside out to figment but they need to totally redo the system.

I like mission space and heard it's getting touched up/story changes which it desperately needs. But if they totally axed it for a good successor I could deal with it.

On board with everything else. As illegal/stupid it was for that guy to break into cranium command (showed his face in the process) I blame Disney for the fact it's still sitting there unused. Can't explore abandoned things if they're not abandoned ya know

 

[lockedoutlogic]

We still haven't gotten anything close to a good reason for closing wonders of life...

Lots of "e" excuses...but nothing resembling what I believe to be the truth: the sponsor went away and they closed it to save a few minimum wage employees costs...

The 3 attractions in wonders - if dated - still represent a lot more interesting experiences than much of what remains.

 

[OSUZorba]

We still haven't gotten anything close to a good reason for closing wonders of life...

Lots of "e" excuses...but nothing resembling what I believe to be the truth: the sponsor went away and they closed it to save a few minimum wage employees costs...

The 3 attractions in wonders - if dated - still represent a lot more interesting experiences than much of what remains.

To me, which I relatively new to WDW, but it seems like a lot of EPCOT's issues stem from Disney refusing the pick up the tap for their park. So sponsor goes away, ride goes away and ticket prices go up. The first time I was at EPCOT was in 2011 and it seems like a lot has left just since then, especially in Innoventions, which I really enjoyed.

I could see a true revenue sharing partnership bringing in some corporate dollars, but Disney would never agree to that, they just want free money.

It also seems like with an update, Wonder of Life could still attract and interest people just fine today. People are far more into health and medicine than they were in the 1990s.