E-Ticket Nights- Just a Replacement for Late Hours or a Real Deal

[Testtrack321]

From our very own DVC-Landbarron....

“Wait!!” they say. “I’ll tell you what. Such a deal, I have for you!! You can buy back a very small portion of what used to be included, for only $12.00 (without tax)!! How can you go wrong!! An eighth of the park opened (just a guess) for way less hours than before and only 12 bucks over the initial cost (which rises like clockwork, no matter what anyway!!) WOW!! Talk about magic!!”

My question is this. Was E-Ticket night set up so we had to pay for the last 3 hours the park is open, including regular admission, to ride just 11 of the many rides at the MK? Or was it set up to fully have a new feature that is like EE only for laterisers?

My oppinion is that E-Ticket STARTED out as the second. They wanted to add more options. And that's what it looked like. The "good ole' days" of the park closing at 11 or 12 were still there, plus the extra 3 hours the park was open for E-Ticket. We were there once till 2:30am. But that has somewhat morphed, after EE left, it seemed more like we were paying for one fourth a park for $12, which we used to get for free (with admission).

So, what do you think?

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

My vote's in!!

In case you're wondering...

SEE ABOVE!!!

 

[raidermatt]

I have to agree with the Baron guy on this one.

If hours stay the same, and three more are tacked on for an enight, fine.

I understand the economics of it, but its still frustrating to have to choose between paying $12 or skipping something that used to be included with your admission. AND the whole park was open.

That's why I don't consider it much of a cut when enights are cancelled. The cut was made when closing time was cut back.

I'd take one hour of full park operation included with my ticket over 3 hours of enight ANY day.

 

[airlarry!]

My one experience with E-night was this:

June '99. EARLY June. Like the first week of June.

Closing time at MK that night? 10 pm...but e*night was from 10-1 a.m.

We stayed until 12:30 am. My wife and the babies gave up. My only gripe was the very few food stands opened.

I thought it was great from the perspective that about 3500 tix were sold that night and we rode the big 7 as much as we wanted. Over and over. No lines at all.

Knowing this, we did attractions all day that we might have overlooked before. Timekeeper (which now we never skip if it is open). The Treehouse. Watching the steel drum players. All the little things that are in opposite to Disney Commando. It made it nice. I see why Baron likes the idea of late hours so much. It just seems to be an inherent part of The Magic.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Started out as something great. I, too, remember the days of E-night until 2 am. Back before the kids arrived we were the Baron and Baronesse. We'd do Epcot until Illuminations and closing, hot foot it over to the MK and see the fireworks and parade there, and then, this wonderful new option appeared - for $10 bucks we could stay till 2 am. Come on Baron - you couldn't have had a problem with that.

Alas, all that changed and E-night is currently the sad situation the Baron describes.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Started out as something great.

I beg to differ, Mr. Kidds! Scoop isn’t the only one with an inside ‘scoop’. I have it on VERY good authority (former VP Greg Emmer, see I’m not afraid to name names!!) that it was started as a cost cutting measure brought on by fears that the rampant wild fires in Florida would keep the tourists away in the summer of 1997 or 98 (I can’t recall, at the moment, which year it was). Anyway, the hours were cut by one hour for the first time EVER that year. E-Tickets were installed to recoup some of the lost revenue. It’s just that simple!!!

We'd do Epcot until Illuminations and closing, hot foot it over to the MK and see the fireworks and parade there, and then, this wonderful new option appeared - for $10 bucks we could stay till 2 am. Come on Baron - you couldn't have had a problem with that.

But I do!! I really do!! Because…

I, too, remember the days of E-night until 2 am. Back before the kids arrived we were the Baron and Baronesse.

I, too, remember a time when we stayed in the MK until two, EVERY NIGHT OF THE WEEK!! Two, that’s right count ‘em, TWO parades every night!! The MK closed at one o’clock in the morning!!! Main Street, the ENTIRE Main Street, stayed opened until 2:00!!! And there wasn’t a vacuum cleaner in sight (or sound) five minutes after the second parade!!! All included in the basic ticket price!!!

Ahhhh! Now that was MAGIC!!!!

Sir Larry! You sized it up nicely:

I see why Baron likes the idea of late hours so much. It just seems to be an inherent part of The Magic.

’nuff said!!

Now, Scoop!!

we're willing to pay to get rid of crowds. I guess that sounds kind of conceited or whatever but we plain and simple hate being around the large crowds.

And you think we summer people like crowds!!! More than half of my Disney thought goes into avoiding them! And I have to work hard at it. Harder than the 'off-season' folks, I'll wager! And I was good at it!! Very good!! Before 1998 I prided myself, with no such thing as an e-ticket night, of NEVER waiting more that fifteen or twenty minutes (tops) in a line. EVER!!! NO MATTER WHAT THE RIDE!!! That has changed now. It is simply IMPOSSIBLE. Unless, of course, you fork over the twelve bucks (before tax) for the privilege!!

 

[DisneyKidds]

I, too, remember a time when we stayed in the MK until two, EVERY NIGHT OF THE WEEK!! Two, that’s right count ‘em, TWO parades every night!! The MK closed at one o’clock in the morning!!! Main Street, the ENTIRE Main Street, stayed opened until 2:00!!!

This was during the 80's? I don't believe it was during the 90's - not EVERY NIGHT OF THE WEEK!! Most of our early 90's trips involved driving back to Tampa after MK closing - and that was always midnight on the days we were there. Of course you probably have evidence to prove me wrong - but sometimes things are remembered as better than they really were after they are gone. Maybe the memories get a little fuzzy? In that summer of 97 or 98 you state hours were cut by 1 for the first time ever. I distinctly remember E-night from 11 to 2. That implies that the hours pre E-night were until midnight - that magic hour that everyone is pining away for. While you are correct about the two parades, as to hours EVERY NIGHT till 1 am - I'm gonna need that proof. Regardless - losing 1 hour to get 3 back for $10 was a great thing for us. By that point in the night all we really wanted to do was more of the E ticket attractions anyway. It extended the night without lines. Ok, maybe it wasn't the 80's. Do you still listen to Devo ? Calling Mr. Morrow, Mr. Tom Morrow - it's time to leave yesterday and join us Mr. Baron . Sadly, now E-night only gets you to where the hours used to be, unlike in its early days. So, maybe the motivation was not strictly guest driven - but they made a very good situation out of what they saw as a necessary change. Then they ruined it.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

This was during the 80's?

Actually it was just before EPCOT’s opening.

Of course you probably have evidence to prove me wrong - but sometimes things are remembered as better than they really were after they are gone.

No. The memories are quite clear. Sometimes the writing isn’t. And sometime the reading isn’t. I never gave any dates as to when the MK was opened until 1:00. All I said was that I remembered when it was. I guess you filled in the dates that I omitted!!

Regardless - losing 1 hour to get 3 back for $10 was a great thing for us.

I couldn’t disagree more and not come to blows!! We lost an hour – EVERY NIGHT!!! We gained three hours for one night only. And it was the whole park that we lost in that hour a night. Only to pay for an eighth of it! Not very equitable in my book! And that was only the start. Now we lose two hours a night for a purchase of three. Even more inequitable! E-tickets would only be “such a deal” if they hadn’t messed with the hours in the first place. As it is I’m buying back much less time than they took, for WAY less park!

Do you still listen to Devo?

Never did!! Beatles, Moody Blues, Pink Floyd, Zepplin, Queen, Beethoven, Mozart, Wagner, Liszt and it all started with the Dave Clark Five!! How’s that for being “back in the day”!!!???

Maybe the motivation was not strictly guest driven - but they made a very good situation out of what they saw as a necessary change.

NO!!! It was wild fire driven!!! And what they made was a very good profit!!! Didn’t you read my first paragraph!?!?!

 

[BRERALEX]

well aside for being charged for what used to be free i also IMO notcied that when enight first stared theie weren't alot of people. this could be because of lack of people knowing about enight or to me that now they raised the number of guests allowed into enight. I remember there used to be a certain number of people allowed. But it seems even enight has a wait sometimes which wasnt the case when it first started.

 

[d-r]

We typically go in off-season.

It doesn't surprise me that e-nights are something that wdw planned to increase revenue - of course it is. So is selling tickets to get in to the parks in the first place. It takes money to operate the parks. Of course they should make money off of an e-night - and the guest should get something for their money. I think it is well worth it to pay a small extra amount to be able to visit the magic kingdom with a limited crowd size. We have been to probably 4 or 5 e-nights, I don't really remember. I remember one that we too crowded and sort of a pain, with gazillions of toddlers sleeping in their strollers, and tomorrowland sounding like WWII nursary in London with all the crying from the over-tired toddlers in there. But besides that one experience, I love e-night. It has a special feel to it, quiet, calm, magical. It is more than worth 12 or 15 dollars or whatever it is - by the time we pay to fly to wdw and for the resort, that is a small cost, heck that is what a movie would cost if we just stayed home for the weekend. I love the limited nature of e-night, it feels special and cool.

But then, too, we often go for a long weekend, and not a three week stint, so the extra time and lower crowds are well worth it to us. I think it is a real bargain.

I see the economic side of it like this. I honestly believe that they keep the park hours set to maximize profits based on the number of guests who are in the park at that time - I think they try to balance the guests' experience with the economics of it. They may be cutting it too short now, but I am hopeful that they will get it right. I think that if there aren't enough people in the park to make it worth it to keep it open they should close it - think about it. Why do people want the parks open later? Because the crowds are lower. Guess what. The crowds are lower so it isn't as economical to keep the park open. We'd all love for them to keep the MK open just for us for free, but it can't work like that. If most of the people have gone back to the resort to wind down by the pool and put the kids to bed by 10, it doesn't make a lot of sense to keep the park open until 12 or 1 am on a week night for the benefit of a few guests. The trick is to balance the economic necessities with guest satisfaction. That balance isn't where it should be right now, they have to tweak it some to get it right.

But I think that e-nights are well worth it. My biggest disapointment is that they seem to have abandoned e-nights during the off-season and include them only during the high season. That seems like a bad way to do it to me - again, though, I recognize that there may be an economic necessity. I think that e-nights are a great solution in the off-season; there aren't enough guests to justify keeping three parks open late, and they want to keep the studios and epcot open for the illuminations and fastamic. So, e-nights give the economic ability to keep the magic kingdom open later a few nights. I have no problem with that at all - I just think that it is a shame they have moved the model of what should work for off-season to using it for high-season, and not using it at all for short season. Again, I see that as an economic decision. My hope is that they can get a balance between guest satisfaction and economics with the hours.

DR

 

[raidermatt]

But then, too, we often go for a long weekend, and not a three week stint, so the extra time and lower crowds are well worth it to us. I think it is a real bargain.

Sure, its still a bargain for some people. That's like saying even though WDW has made cuts, its still a bargain. But the fact is, its not as good a bargain as it was when those hours were included with your original admission.

Maybe that's just the way its going to be. But that doesn't change the fact that its not as good as the prior situation for the majority of guests.

That balance isn't where it should be right now, they have to tweak it some to get it right.

With the posting of September and especially October hours, its becoming painfully clear that they ARE tweaking...but in the other direction.

At the current rate, we maybe seeing enights from 6pm-9pm next summer...

I think that e-nights are a great solution in the off-season; there aren't enough guests to justify keeping three parks open late

Problem with that is, there are also less people to pay for enights in the off-season. Since enights don't generate enough of a profit on these nights, they are not held. And hours stay in their shortened version.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Hey Baron - get out of here - you aren't supposed to crawl out of your cave during the day . I was beginning to think 'Baron' was more significant than I thought and perhaps you were from Transylvania or something and you were a vampire . You never seem to play with us until the wee hours, and you have a documented penchant for the evening .

So it was the 80's - and sorry to fill in the dates. However, you paint a picture that the MK hours were till 1 am right up until 97/98 when they were cut for the very first time and they suckered us into paying for E-nights. Not the case.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here (and I know you are waiting with the saw ) but I bet you weren't in car #3 back in 1990 when the MK hours were ONLY until midnight. There was still MHB, and chocolates with the bill, etc., etc. Sure, you didn't care for the GF and were probably alone on that one. All was generally good with the world and the nibbling had not really begun. A good majority of that was maintained and then you could have a good, IMHO, E-night option.

I couldn’t disagree more and not come to blows!! We lost an hour – EVERY NIGHT!!! We gained three hours for one night only. And it was the whole park that we lost in that hour a night. Only to pay for an eighth of it! Not very equitable in my book!

I didn't say it was equitable - I said it was good for us. Back into that 'I like' neverland. However, not everyone went to the MK EVERY NIGHT!!! I think for most the E-nights initially were a very good thing - for everyone except the vampires that is . Yes, they made it worse and now it is a travesty. But initially E-nights felt like a Magical thing. The whole park to wander, the best rides to ride, all to yourself as the tickets were limited. It was Magic - screw the motivation. Maybe if all I was listening to was my best of the 80's album I might have felt differently. Sadly, it isn't Magic anymore.

And what they made was a very good profit!!!

OMG - you mean WDW makes a profit off of guests. Here I thought it was a not-for-profit organization .

All silly music references to you being stuck in the 80's aside, I know and completely agree with your Zeppelinesque taste in music. I bet you are an Emerson, Lake, and Palmer guy too - Trilogy is a great album. However, listen to 'From the Beginning' a few more times and apply it to your relationship with WDW .

 

[Don Karnage]

going along with what BRERALEX said....

I just got back last week and did two e-nights during the stay. The second time (a Tuesday night) had 35 minute waits for Space, Splash and Thunder. I know this is less than what you would wait during the day, but it is much more than what I expect from e-night.

What is the number they supposedly limit the crowd to? Has anyone ever been told "Sorry, all the e-night tickets are gone for tonight." Come to think of it, I am not sure I have ever read anything official saying 'attendance is limited to x people.' Is this just a misunderstanding on my part?

OK, I was never completely thrilled with the idea of paying extra for something that I perceived as formerly free BUT I still though it was worth it for the limited crowds and insignificant waits (under 10 minutes.) I don't always get the same value anymore.

 

[Tik Tok]

As long as people are willing to pay for this little "bonus", Disney's never going to do away with it. That's just how they are - anything to make a bigger profit -- even if it means ripping people off. It's really sad when you think of all the wonderful perks you used to get for just the price of admission.

But I guess that's the price we have to pay for the rapid and uncontrolled expansion of the Disney theme park empire. That's what happens when one resort has to support 4 theme parks - especially when some of them aren't performing very well...

 

[BRERALEX]

I thought there was a limited number thats what i thought i read but this could turn into refillable mug thing were noone knows for sure. but hey im glad Don Karnage noticed lines on enight which wasnt the case the first time i did it but the last time which was last august even buzz had a long line. The park was packed with people with wrist bands.

enight drives me crazy either way cause i remember being in the park for free til midnight alot and a couple of times in august. I always go in august.

(INSERT BEATING DEAD HORSE HERE)
nothing we can do

I also remember telling my friends "yeah DW is great they do fireworks EVERY night" owell.

Call me crazy but i think years and years from now from competition i beleive the parks wil be open till crazy late hours. but i mean years from now decade or two. After we've revovered from this economy and horrible management i think because of competition all around parks will be open later.

 

[BRERALEX]

just so you know there saying on the theme parks board (bucnch of freaks J/K) that now august 26 (only) has extended hours till a big ol 7. and two enights that week there were non before.

they threw me abone and im biting.

why just august 26th? Its like some geek at the disney website said "let me try this and see how many emails we get in response!!!"

 

[raidermatt]

Here's an interesting question...

Why aren't enights promoted more heavily? There is very little info on them available through Disney promotional material.

Now, before somebody says its because there are a limited number of spots and they don't want to disapoint guests, remember that enights are being canceled during slower periods. Wouldn't it make more sense to promote them a little more

Sure it would. IF you wanted all of your guests to know you were offering them. So clearly, Disney does NOT want everyone to know about them. So much so, that they'd rather not have them than promote them. They just want to have them if "word of mouth" is enough to generate interest...

What does that mean?

Maybe they get significant amounts of flak from guests who are angry that the reason they can't stay at MK as late is because of Enights? Maybe they don't want enights showing up in press articles, since its unlikely the press would give them favorable treatment for the move? So Disney lets the word of mouth get to those who are interested, and tries to minimize the number of guests who are more likely to be upset.

Just a theory, of course, but if there is some truth to it, what does that say about the wisdom of offering a product that you don't want too many customers to find out about for fear of offending them?

 

[YoHo]

My first E-night was a pretty magical expireance, but then it was me and my Girlfriend (now wife) strolling through the park hand in hand. Had little to do with anything Disney was or wasn't doing for me.

 

[airlarry!]

I think I see where Sir Baron is going...check me if I am wrong, LB.

What E*night started as, was a replacement for late hours. In other words, my first experience there with it was hours from 11-1 a.m....or roughly what would have been open anyway but sans second parade, 75% of attractions, and all but a handful of shops and eateries. It was just a way to cut hours and staff, and still make money, and seemingly not upset loyal people by not advertising this 'secret' little deal. I know that is the way I felt that night...wow! I have the MK to myself!

I had forgotten that I used to get it that way almost every night anyway.

Right LB? It upset you that they charged for something you were getting anyway. And now to add injury to insult, they've cut the hours even more!

 

[BRERALEX]

thats sweet.

I remember the same stroll but free.

and now like some else said the next enight will be like 7-10 or 9. so now what we used to used to get free were even getting charged for. sounds great.