Is Toy Story Land underperforming?

[nkosiek]

well, "won't count" by the third party statistics, but I would think Disney had their own internal metrics and can track park hopping as well, so even if not in the official count Disney would know if this increased "hops" to DHS as well

I will give you that they probably have their own metrics, but outsiders will be looking at the big list put out every year, and that's what I based my statement on.

Our last trip (before Toy Story Land, but also before Great Movie Ride closed) my family (which has 3 young ones) spend an entire day at DHS and didn't even get to everything we want (didn't get to BatB or to RnRC) - I know we might be the exception but there is still stuff do to there and now with Toy Story Land I think more people will at least give it part of a day or a full day if they had been skipping it

Ahhh, fair enough, but again, kids love rides in addition to everything else, and for my kid, there was not a single ride he could do that day (was too scared to do Star Tours). Even at Animal Kingdom (where people complain there isn't enough to do) there was a safari, Navi River, and Triceretops Spin, on top of all the shows and whatnot.

I am excited about the land. Can't wait to go back. Actually upset at our traveling companions for forcing an early summer trip which caused us to miss it (we normally travel this week). I am sure my kid(s) will love it as will the adults but I don't know that it will bring in too many people even with the push. Some, sure, but I think others are just gonna wait until Star Wars.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I will give you that they probably have their own metrics, but outsiders will be looking at the big list put out every year, and that's what I based my statement on.

Ahhh, fair enough, but again, kids love rides in addition to everything else, and for my kid, there was not a single ride he could do that day (was too scared to do Star Tours). Even at Animal Kingdom (where people complain there isn't enough to do) there was a safari, Navi River, and Triceretops Spin, on top of all the shows and whatnot.

I am excited about the land. Can't wait to go back. Actually upset at our traveling companions for forcing an early summer trip which caused us to miss it (we normally travel this week). I am sure my kid(s) will love it as will the adults but I don't know that it will bring in too many people even with the push. Some, sure, but I think others are just gonna wait until Star Wars.

ah, ok - yeah my kids loved Star Wars in general and we rode Star Tours twice also saw the show and did the dessert party and fireworks and met Chewie, etc. - so that was a good chunk of the day. They are also still into Disney Jr so we saw that show and did all those character meets, so that took time. Also did Frozen Singalong and I just spent time watching the Citizens of Hollywood while the youngest napped in the stroller ...

... definitely a great part of WDW is how many different ways you can vacation there and do the parks

 

[mrcase77]

I think there’s likely a critical mass for things to do they’ll have to hit for people with kids and no park hoppers. Toy story land helps, but maybe isn’t enough. Kind of wonder if Disney didn’t know that. Maybe thats why they added 2 lands instead of just one. Adding 3 rides helps, but it’s still not enough to fill a day for a family with young kids. When they have those plus Star Wars, THEN it’s enough to justify a day. Pandora was added to a park that had tons of stuff already much less magic kingdom with SDMT.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I think there’s likely a critical mass for things to do they’ll have to hit for people with kids and no park hoppers. Toy story land helps, but maybe isn’t enough. Kind of wonder if Disney didn’t know that. Maybe thats why they added 2 lands instead of just one. Adding 3 rides helps, but it’s still not enough to fill a day for a family with young kids. When they have those plus Star Wars, THEN it’s enough to justify a day. Pandora was added to a park that had tons of stuff already much less magic kingdom with SDMT.

also having Great Movie Ride down - while it wasn't the most popular it was another attraction that all ages could do. Once Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railroad opens that should help as well give things to do for the full day - as while some people I am sure could spend all day in Galaxy's Edge, I bet there are a lot of families where some members are gaga over Star Wars and others less so, so having other options will be key to keep entire families in DHS all day

 

[jsbowl16]

One other thing I find interesting is that RnRC has had huge wait times over the last few days. Sometimes twice as long as SDD and TSMM. So there are obviously people in DHS.

 

[jknezek]

We are going in January. No hoppers. I'm assuming we won't spend a full day in DHS. My kids don't love the shows. We'll do as many rides as we can and then split back to the campsite for some rest and bike riding. If I can, I'll get FPs for SDD, RnRC and Star Tours. Of the rest of the rides, that really only leaves TSMM and maybe ToT if the kids are feeling brave that will be interesting. AS2 won't hold their attention. They've done Jedi Training and aren't real fired up to do it again. It's just still not a great park from our point of view. We go to all the parks, and I'm looking forward to seeing TSL since it's new, but I'm betting we are gone just after lunch. Pandora, on the other hand, I'm fired up about. We'll definitely be there at dark, and planned a full day in AK, whether we take a mid-day break depends on what we can get on.

But yeah, even with what will be 7 and 9 year old kids, TSL just isn't really enough to get us to think of DHS as anything but the least park. That doesn't mean I'm not excited to see it. I am. But it's not enough for our interests. Does that make it an under performing expansion? I don't think so, I think that park, as a whole, is still in a waiting pattern. And no amount of marketing was going to fix that.

 

[Phicinfan]

well, "won't count" by the third party statistics, but I would think Disney had their own internal metrics and can track park hopping as well, so even if not in the official count Disney would know if this increased "hops" to DHS as well

Our last trip (before Toy Story Land, but also before Great Movie Ride closed) my family (which has 3 young ones) spend an entire day at DHS and didn't even get to everything we want (didn't get to BatB or to RnRC) - I know we might be the exception but there is still stuff do to there and now with Toy Story Land I think more people will at least give it part of a day or a full day if they had been skipping it

count us in this as well, I have three kids - 2 in college one in HS, and we always plan a full day in DHS, again this was before the closures. Our fear is once SW opens, this will be a 2 day park to get into all you want to do.

DHS was and will always be one of my top favorite parks

 

[TheMaxRebo]

One other thing I find interesting is that RnRC has had huge wait times over the last few days. Sometimes twice as long as SDD and TSMM. So there are obviously people in DHS.

Tower of Terror too is having long waits - longer than SDD at least some times when I have been checking

Only other thing I can think of is that the tiering has changed with just Toy Story Land rides being Tier 1 and the rest Tier 2 ... not exactly sure why that would drive increased waits, but only other difference I can think of

 

[TheMaxRebo]

count us in this as well, I have three kids - 2 in college one in HS, and we always plan a full day in DHS, again this was before the closures. Our fear is once SW opens, this will be a 2 day park to get into all you want to do.

DHS was and will always be one of my top favorite parks

same here - I love all the details, just wandering around and seeing the shop windows and watching the Citizens of Hollywood, etc. ... I hope that Old Hollywood feel to part of the park remains even after Galaxy's Edge opens

 

[TheMaxRebo]

We are going in January. No hoppers. I'm assuming we won't spend a full day in DHS. My kids don't love the shows. We'll do as many rides as we can and then split back to the campsite for some rest and bike riding. If I can, I'll get FPs for SDD, RnRC and Star Tours. Of the rest of the rides, that really only leaves TSMM and maybe ToT if the kids are feeling brave that will be interesting. AS2 won't hold their attention. They've done Jedi Training and aren't real fired up to do it again. It's just still not a great park from our point of view. We go to all the parks, and I'm looking forward to seeing TSL since it's new, but I'm betting we are gone just after lunch. Pandora, on the other hand, I'm fired up about. We'll definitely be there at dark, and planned a full day in AK, whether we take a mid-day break depends on what we can get on.

But yeah, even with what will be 7 and 9 year old kids, TSL just isn't really enough to get us to think of DHS as anything but the least park. That doesn't mean I'm not excited to see it. I am. But it's not enough for our interests. Does that make it an under performing expansion? I don't think so, I think that park, as a whole, is still in a waiting pattern. And no amount of marketing was going to fix that.

It does seems like Toy Story Land looks and feels a lot different at night than during the day - so our plan is to rope drop to get to SDD (we are staying off site and have a group of 11 so figuring we won't be able to get FP for it) and want to try breakfast at Andy's Lunchbox and then will take a mid day break and then head back to check it out at night and probably grab dinner at Andy's Lunchbox

(though my kids also want to do Jedi training so not sure how we will do both that and rope drop SDD, but we shall see)

 

[Nancyg56]

I think the extending of free dining booking and addition of a ticket option are telling that attendance is a bit soft for the upcoming months. That said I wonder if DHS has seen any increases.

I think that the free dining boking extension might have more to do with Disney miscalculating the number of rooms that folks were holding to "apply" FD when it dropped. Also, the rooms included were so narrow that I bet many who wanted the offer walked away, so the boking deadline was moved.

I bet that DHS has seen more people however it is still not considered to be a full day park by a lot of folks, so if one park is skipped this is it. DAK's new land has a different appeal, and to a larger number of generations. I admit I am excited to see this new land, however if I was forced to choose DAK would be my park, and this one would wait. No shade, no seating, and hot as Hades, with the perception right or wrong, of a kiddie land, is not a good draw.

 

[mshanson3121]

yeah, i think I had posted about this to start and should have been more clear - it isn't a change at all to the Free Dining offer, just that originally you had to book a free dining vacation by July 7th (I believe) and they have extended that booking through August 1st

As for the ticket option - I assume it is the one where Silver Pass holders can pay $89 to remove (some?) of the black out dates they had - that is the one offer I have seen recently

Gotcha. It is interesting though, that they extended. And just today in the mail, I received my 3rd PIN offer, just in the last 2 months, and my 6th one just since the start of the year. This one was for similar time frame as the FD is offered. So perhaps FD/fall bookings didn't go as well as they hoped this year? If nothing else, it makes me hope that we have another year of the Canadian discount coming

One other thing I find interesting is that RnRC has had huge wait times over the last few days. Sometimes twice as long as SDD and TSMM. So there are obviously people in DHS.

Tower of Terror too is having long waits - longer than SDD at least some times when I have been checking

Only other thing I can think of is that the tiering has changed with just Toy Story Land rides being Tier 1 and the rest Tier 2 ... not exactly sure why that would drive increased waits, but only other difference I can think of

Is it possible they're inflating wait times elsewhere to encourage others to visit TSL? Especially *if* TSL is falling short of what they had hoped.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Is it possible they're inflating wait times elsewhere to encourage others to visit TSL? Especially *if* TSL is falling short of what they had hoped.

It's possible - other thing I have heard (or at least speculation about) is that they aren't giving out as many FP for the new Toy Story rides as would be typical which may be keeping the standby waits down if a higher percentage of the riders are taking from the standyby line vs FP than other rides

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

Also, waiting for long periods of time in those mostly-shadeless queues is probably not something most people are going to do in the hottest months of the year.

That to me is the biggest head shaking thing about TSL. Even Woody's Lunchbox not having shade for all tables. You'd think Disney world know by now that they're located in Florida. A kiddie area is not going to go over well with no shade. My kids are much less heat tolerant than I am. I might get in an uncovered line, but they will complain about it a lot. Doesn't have to be AC but at least covered with fans like Navi.

I am surprised that there wasn't the huge surge that Pandora had. A lot of people didn't see or didn't like Avatar. I think TS has a much bigger fan base so I would have expected more people to come out for a beloved franchise that's got new rides even though they are kiddie rides. I wouldn't expect it to have the staying power of Pandora because of the rides though. I have to think Disney is at least a little disappointed.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I didn't expect this to produce large lines. It is a toddler ride in an adult park.

 

[rteetz]

I didn't expect this to produce large lines. It is a toddler ride in an adult park.

It has been averaging well over an hour though. I also would argue its a bit more than a toddler ride. It is a family ride.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

It has been averaging well over an hour though. I also would argue its a bit more than a toddler ride. It is a family ride.

I'll reserve judgement, but it looks like a toddler ride to me. 7DMT is a toddler ride.

 

[rteetz]

I'll reserve judgement, but it looks like a toddler ride to me. 7DMT is a toddler ride.

I disagree with that as well. 7DMT is a family ride as well. I don't consider anything a "toddler" ride. Just because its not RnR and the height restriction allows most toddlers to ride doesn't mean its a toddler ride.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I disagree with that as well. 7DMT is a family ride as well. I don't consider anything a "toddler" ride. Just because its not RnR and the height restriction allows most toddlers to ride doesn't mean its a toddler ride.

We can disagree. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[dlavender]

I think if they would have stuck with the concept art depiction of SDD, it would have garnered more interest from adults wanting to ride it, just like 7DMT does. The stripping away of those details have made it perceived more as a kiddie ride.