Looking for Advice....

[because]

I never took her in to gain anything from her. .

Well, there you go. You have answered your own question.

Get an appraisal on the house. Determine what her apartment has added to the value of your house. The added living space that your mother added for you can be your payment for the taxes and homeowners. Then pay your mother back for the extra value of her apartment. That is, if you are really sincere that you do not want to gain from your mother.

 

[appleplie]

We take out her trash. She winters south in a 55+ community and loves it. I ship her luggage for her and someone on the other end ships it back for her. She does not have a car where she winters and is chauffeured around by others. I pay her bills (with her money) when she's away. Since she stays in a senior community while away-she is not responsible for any upkeep.

 

[appleplie]

I think the reason my husband feels that we don't owe her is the fact that my siblings have already received a payout from the sale of her original home. My share was her investment in my home that I would retain upon her death. Along with the resentment that they're not here helping out.

 

[because]

We take out her trash. She winters south in a 55+ community and loves it. I ship her luggage for her and someone on the other end ships it back for her. She does not have a car where she winters and is chauffeured around by others. I pay her bills (with her money) when she's away. Since she stays in a senior community while away-she is not responsible for any upkeep.

How does she manage though to get through daily life when she winters away?

Again, I would consult a lawyer. From everything you have said, you may have a sizeable legal obligation to your mother. You never answered whether you claimed her money to improve your house as a gift on your taxes? Did you pay taxes on the excess? You are not allowed to accept more than the IRS maximum without claiming it. If you did not, you may also have a large tax obligation if you do not return your mother's investment.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

I think the reason my husband feels that we don't owe her is the fact that my siblings have already received a payout from the sale of her original home. My share was her investment in my home that I would retain upon her death. Along with the resentment that they're not here helping out.

It's your mother and you are putting the blame on your husband to make yourself come out clean. Sorry, if my husband was that callous about the money he'd be put in his place big time. Nobody takes advantage of my family. Husband included.

 

[appleplie]

They don't come any better than my husband. He has done more for my mother than anyone could ever imagine.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

They don't come any better than my husband. He has done more for my mother than anyone could ever imagine.

I'm hearing more martyrdom coming from your posts. Not genuine care.

 

[appleplie]

If I didn't care-I would never have taken her in in the first place.

 

[drinkme]

I think the reason my husband feels that we don't owe her is the fact that my siblings have already received a payout from the sale of her original home. My share was her investment in my home that I would retain upon her death. Along with the resentment that they're not here helping out.

So mom's life savings, the sale of her home, is gone? How will mom pay for home health care in a few years? Unless you have actually looked into this you would be shocked at how much senior care costs. Figure about $100+ a day for minimal care. And a nursing home starts at around $5000 a month. Yes, Medicare MAY pay for the first month or so if mom comes straight from the hospital, but sounds like her life savings was given out to her kids already.

I hate to say it but I think you are morally obligated to keep mom. Have you contacted siblings to see if any of them want her? What will siblings say about mom moving out? I'm guessing they assumed you were going to take care of her forever.

Unless mom is financially set to pay her senior living until she dies how will she make money? It is a burden on the children for old people with no money. But where else can she go? I should hope when it's my time to go I just drop dead before I become a burden to my children.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Wow.... now we are trying to flame and blame the DH, who must be some kind of saint, IMHO...

OP, there are those who are going to hate, and judge... That is just who they are.
Have seen the same type of posts many times.
Just want to make sure that you are aware of what you are dealing with here.

And, just a PS:
If it would make anybody feel any better... I would gift my mother the exact amount of money that can be accounted for as spent on any of those renovations/improvements.
The money wouldn't be worth it.... I wouldn't want any outside party (even my mother) having an interest, and assumed say-so over my and my DH's home.

If it is true that you have siblings, and they they got cash money, while you and your DH get to deal with living under the same roof as your mother/MIL.... Then, so be it.
Some things are best if you just let them go.

 

[bellebud]

We take out her trash. She winters south in a 55+ community and loves it. I ship her luggage for her and someone on the other end ships it back for her. She does not have a car where she winters and is chauffeured around by others. I pay her bills (with her money) when she's away. Since she stays in a senior community while away-she is not responsible for any upkeep.

Talk to her about moving permanently where she 'winters'. This is a very valid option.

I think the reason my husband feels that we don't owe her is the fact that my siblings have already received a payout from the sale of her original home. My share was her investment in my home that I would retain upon her death. Along with the resentment that they're not here helping out.

This changes my mind on what I was going to say. I was going to say to give her back her original investment. You still may 'need' to, but boy, that would be unfair to you (regarding you and your siblings). It's a shame she gave out 'inheritances' so early in life. She should have kept her house money. But, she didn't. I'm sure it was with the best intentions of course.

Life takes twists and turns. People have to adjust. She thought you'd all stay there forever, but your neighborhood has changed. You shouldn't be expected to live out your life based on a 19 years ago thought.

I have to ask about your siblings. They NEED to step up. You all need to share in this going forward. What are their positions in life? Married? Kids? Homeless? It honestly doesn't even really matter, but you need to stop being the only one who takes care of mom. You've done more than your share in my eyes. She's their mom just as much as yours.

If you give her back her original investment, are your siblings able to give her back their inheritance? Really, such a shame she gave it all away 19 years ago. But what's done is done.

You need to say to your siblings "it's going to cost x amount each month for mom, we're paying our share (how many siblings are there?), you all need to pay x amount also." If someone TRULY can't afford it, they can maybe be the one to drive to mom once every few weeks for doctors appts, help write out bills, etc. They're all adults now. They need to help, and they've shown they won't offer, because you're doing it all. You have to stop enabling them.

 

[Alice Hart]

Sorry this is so long......

Looking for opinions and/or advice-My DM moved in with dh and I 19 years ago after the sudden passing of my DF. DM was 54 at the time and had never been on her own. DM paid for the addition of an in-law apartment on our home which included some additional living space for us as well. DH and I have taken care of all maintenance on the exterior of the house for the last 19 years-including DM’s apartment. Paid all of the taxes, homeowners insurance, repairs, water bills, etc.

Our children have now grown and left the nest. DH and I have been considering selling the house for a little while now. Our neighborhood has changed and we live near a busy thoroughfare. We were recently presented with an opportunity to purchase a home that we are in love with in a very quiet, off-the-beaten path, rural area. There will be no room for DM and I don’t think it would be a good move for her anyway-she’s 74 now. Doesn’t drive much and this would be very isolated for her.

Here’s my dilemma. DM will be very angry. The decision was made very quickly for her to move in with us after the death of DF. In hindsight, this was a bad decision that should not have been made so quickly at such a difficult time. DM went from a situation where she was very dependent on DF to where she is very dependent on myself and DH. She has always been very good at manipulating others to get her way. It is time for DH and I to be free to make decisions that are best for our future and while I feel comfortable with this decision, I also have a lot of guilt. There was never any discussion about the what ifs when she moved in. DM has made a lot of assumptions in her own mind that she would be with DH and I until the end. Because of this, she is not prepared neither mentally nor financially to live on her own. My plan is to move her into a 55+ apartment complex where she will be around people her age. This complex also provides regular transportation to the grocery store and other trips and activities. I think she will love it once she accepts it. The biggest problem is financial and this is the part that I’m really torn. We will be selling our home. DH does not feel that DM is entitled to any of the proceeds and I’m not sure. The apartment and additional living space has contributed to the current value of the home, however, DM has never contributed to the upkeep and taxes during the past 19 years and has essentially lived for free during this time with the exception of her utilities. She will be able to afford her rent for the new apartment, but it will drastically impact her standard of living-which will also make her very angry and resentful. I am willing to help her out with some expenses-but do I owe her more than that?? Any thoughts??

You and your DH have obviously benefited from her living with you. I can imagine she took care of your children. She paid to upgrade your current house. Sounds very much to me like you would like to throw her out with the dishwater. Sad state that people don't respect and care for their forbears.

 

[Alice Hart]

I think the reason my husband feels that we don't owe her is the fact that my siblings have already received a payout from the sale of her original home. My share was her investment in my home that I would retain upon her death. Along with the resentment that they're not here helping out.

Ah the truth comes out. Sibling jealousy.

 

[because]

If I didn't care-I would never have taken her in in the first place.

Since you keep harping on paying the extra real estate taxes you paid, did you also use the entire real estate tax deduction on your taxes? The additional deduction you received on your mother's apartment would also have to be deducted from what you say you are owed for taking in your mother.

You better make sure you have all your legal ducks in a row before you kick your mother to the 55+ residence without reimbursing her. As I mentioned before, once she starts telling her fellow residents how her lifestyle has diminished and how she invested in a property, you can bet there will be plenty of savvy residents who will encourage her to look at what she is legally (emotionally aside) entitled to from you.

 

[Nancyg56]

It's your mother and you are putting the blame on your husband to make yourself come out clean. Sorry, if my husband was that callous about the money he'd be put in his place big time. Nobody takes advantage of my family. Husband included.

My husband and j were always in the same page when it came to the care of my mom. We also were in agreement about any money from my mom. Not up to him to have a say. Both of us were disgusted when his brother in law knew the exact amount his mothers house was worth. But her health though. Her home? To the penny. I would have walked out on him.

They don't come any better than my husband. He has done more for my mother than anyone could ever imagine.

Hmmmm.

 

[because]

Wow.... now we are trying to flame and blame the DH, who must be some kind of saint, IMHO...

OP, there are those who are going to hate, and judge... That is just who they are.
Have seen the same type of posts many times.
Just want to make sure that you are aware of what you are dealing with here.

And, just a PS:
If it would make anybody feel any better... I would gift my mother the exact amount of money that can be accounted for as spent on any of those renovations/improvements.
The money wouldn't be worth it.... I wouldn't want any outside party (even my mother) having an interest, and assumed say-so over my and my DH's home.

If it is true that you have siblings, and they they got cash money, while you and your DH get to deal with living under the same roof as your mother/MIL.... Then, so be it.
Some things are best if you just let them go.

Did you read her post? She said she also got money - it was the money that paid for the additional living space that was added to her house.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

There's more to this story being told..and yes I'm sure that was never the intent of the post to begin with but Pandora's box was opened.

There's a lot to sift through but here are some things:

There was never any discussion about the what ifs when she moved in. DM has made a lot of assumptions in her own mind that she would be with DH and I until the end.

But wait then you say later on:

This arrangement was always intended to be permanent.

============================

She was never asked to contribute and she never offered. We would not have taken anything, even if offered. There were times when this caused some resentment.

But wait then you say later on how she doesn't clean and doesn't take out the garbage, doesn't know how to change a lightbulb, doesn't know how to fill up on gas but wait you also said you didn't expect her to do maintenence...but wait then you said even if help was offered you wouldn't take anything but that it also caused resentment? Unless you were strictly talking about financial contribution rather than household chore assistance (though that still seems to be an issue with you at least it seems that way) in which case I still don't understand where the resentment would come into play?

============================

I am not resentful of her lifestyle.

....

============================

I think the reason my husband feels

Ah..but it is easy to bring up he husband when convenient. Sure we all know couples aren't 100% agreeing on a subject (we see it daily here on the DIS about things like which resort to stay at for example) but the times you've brought up your husband and even your siblings it's seems much more of a diversion tactic than an explanation.

============================
It's interesting how many times resentment has been brought up too. As I mentioned in my first post how your relationship with your mom is and was seems to be affecting you much more than you realize.

 

[appleplie]

Nope-No sibling jealousy. I don't know if they have the funds to help out. Never asked and they never offered. I don't think they do, but I don't know their financial details. I'm not wealthy, but we've done ok. We're comfortable. I'm in a better place than my siblings with my kids being older and done with college. I can help my mom out with her expenses-just as I said in my original post. She will never be without. I just wanted to know what, if anything I owed her out of the house. Very simple-more than she invested? Less? None? If I didn't love her and care for her-this wouldn't be a question right? I didn't harp on the property taxes-I never asked her to pay them. If I asked her-I'm sure she would have. We just took care of everything because we could and it came to be expected.

 

[Hikergirl]

I agree with that. I was simply giving my experience. Obviously not everyone is alike. Clearly my husband's grandmother who was older than my grandmother was different as she worked in the bombing factories. I, was just providing a reason for dependency (which is what the original poster who I quoted inquired about).

I guess I misunderstood, I thought you were saying that women 20 years ago were more likely to be dependent on others after a loss of a husband.

And some people try to "take care" of their parents if they can get something out of it. For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would move a 54 year old parent who was disagreeable into their home with the intention that it would be permanent unless there was more to the story.

I can't understand why a 54 year old would need to move in with a child permanently if they aren't in need of medical care.
I do understand after losing someone like your father that a person would feel compelled to take care of the other parent, so I won't accuse the OP of having some ulterior motive of moving her mom in. I just don't understand why it was going to be permanent, but that is based on my own experiences and the widow's I know who have lost their husbands at a young age.
I'm 44, if god forbid I lose my ds in 10 years the last thing I would want is any of my children taking care of me.

 

[appleplie]

I don't consider changing a light bulb maintainence. I consider lawn care and such maintain ace. She was never expected to do lawn care, painting, etc.