No way for the 2008 DP!

[haku1205]

Good anaylysis, one that everyone considering the plan should do. Looked at objectively, there is still savings to be had with the new plan as compared to OOP, but that doesn't mean that the new plan is still worth doing for everyone who did the DDP before. We have used the DDP and it has forced us to alter our eating style, and not necessarily in a good way. Not being able to eat certain places we ate before, more counter service meals that we used to eat, stuff like that. However, for the large savings the plan provided in the past we could accept that. Now that the savings is smaller, it may not be worth it. Add to that the fact that there may be other discounts available (such as DDE) that might not have provided a bigger discount than the old DDP but do give a bigger discount than the new DDP, well, there may be lots of reasons for lots of people to pass on the new plan. That doesn't mean there won't still be a large number of people that the new plan suits just fine.......we just won't be one of them.

We've seen it before, and I'm sure we'll see it again. There was a time when Food and Fun was an incredible program that saved you a lot and really was something to look forward to. Then they changed it to something else, curtailing a lot of the value the original plan had. Shortly thereafter the Food and Fun plan disappeared. Might we see the same with the DDP? I wouldn't be surprised.

I think that the analysis is a bit off and only works if you do not do the buffet charecter stuff, otherwise it is not worth it. Also in the analysis I see that the person is including tip and that would bring the price down to 114 compared to the $90.00 I also think that he tipped to little.

 

[If U Had Wings]

I just got back from my trip earlier this month. We paid for the DDP, and my friend and I loved the convience of not having to worry about anything. That being said we were looking at another trip next year and am not sure we are going to do the ddp with the new changes.

I can live with the fact that the tip is no longer included. We didn't run into any service issues ourselves, on the contrary all of the wait staff we had still went out of their way to be wonderful. We even tipped additionally in a few places where we thought the service was expemplary. I do understand that others have had problems and can see the benefits of having the tips dependent on the service they provided.

I do wish they had included either an appetizer or dessert instead of just the dessert. I usually prefer the appetizer with dinner, and then if I still want something for dessert later in the night I could just use a snack credit. 50's Prime Time though is one of the few places where I would chose a dessert though. The choice would be nice.

I actually made up a spread sheet for myself so I could see the price differences between this year and next year. This year for 2 adults we saved $197 dollars by using the plan. If we were to eat the same exact things next year (and tipping at 18% for sake of arguement) we would save $71 on items on the plan, but our out of pocket expenses would cost us $140.

All in all our price increase would be about $126 dollars. All numbers are for 2 adults.
Cost of 2008 plan - $531.86
Out of Pocket - $140.07
Total Cost for food 2008 $671.93
Minus
Total Cost for food 2007 $545.86
Increase in Total Cost $126.07

Of course we probably wouldn't eat exactly the same, but it gives you some idea of the pricing.

Yes I must have too much time on my hands to be figuring all of this out. I want to standardize the worksheet for my parents to use on their trip.

 

[bicker]

I agree, since when did 18% become standard?

The standard is 15% for full service and 10% for buffet service. Many people who are more generous than that want the higher number to be the standard.

And really shouldn't tip amount depend on service?

The 15% number is appropriate if the server does what the server is supposed to do, and nothing more (or less).

 

[pilferk]

Good anaylysis, one that everyone considering the plan should do. Looked at objectively, there is still savings to be had with the new plan as compared to OOP, but that doesn't mean that the new plan is still worth doing for everyone who did the DDP before. We have used the DDP and it has forced us to alter our eating style, and not necessarily in a good way. Not being able to eat certain places we ate before, more counter service meals that we used to eat, stuff like that. However, for the large savings the plan provided in the past we could accept that. Now that the savings is smaller, it may not be worth it. Add to that the fact that there may be other discounts available (such as DDE) that might not have provided a bigger discount than the old DDP but do give a bigger discount than the new DDP, well, there may be lots of reasons for lots of people to pass on the new plan. That doesn't mean there won't still be a large number of people that the new plan suits just fine.......we just won't be one of them.

We've seen it before, and I'm sure we'll see it again. There was a time when Food and Fun was an incredible program that saved you a lot and really was something to look forward to. Then they changed it to something else, curtailing a lot of the value the original plan had. Shortly thereafter the Food and Fun plan disappeared. Might we see the same with the DDP? I wouldn't be surprised.

Exactly. There is value to be had by some. It's NOT the slam dunk, overwhelming value of previous years, that made using the DDP by most people a no brainer. It now means there has to be some more thought put into which discount plan, if any, works for a given family. And the net the DDP cast is not quite as wide.

 

[pilferk]

I think that the analysis is a bit off and only works if you do not do the buffet charecter stuff, otherwise it is not worth it. Also in the analysis I see that the person is including tip and that would bring the price down to 114 compared to the $90.00 I also think that he tipped to little.

I included 18% tip, in BOTH scenarios (DDP on the TS, and OOP) which is exactly what was include prior. The $90 DDP cost per day includes the 18% tip, so it wouldn't be $114. $90 is the correct comparable DDP figure. There is a typo in the original analysis, though. It says "tip at CS" next to the DDP total. It should have said "tip at TS" since tipping at the CS's isn't even allowed.

If you do the dinner buffets, mostly,the deal is not quite as good(although if you have a couple kids in your party, it looks better) but still saves you a decent amount. If you do your TS at breakfast or lunch, at character buffets or not...the value goes down dramatically.

Character Dinner Buffet:

27.95 x 2 = 55.90
Tax: 3.50
Tip: 10.06

Total TS: 69.46

Total CS: 30

Total Snack: 6.40

Total OOP: 105.86

Total DDP for the day: 86.04 (75.98 + 10.06)


Character Breakfast buffet:

18.99 x 2 = 37.98
Tax: 2.30
Tip: 6.85

Total TS: 47.13

Total CS: 30.00

Total Snack: 6.40

Total OOP: 83.53

Total DDP for the day: 82.83 (75.98 + 6.85)

 

[Tricia1972]

For us our choice to not do the DDP has little to do with the changes for 2008 and more to do with the fact that in using it for 14 days in 2007 did not work for us.

I think everyone has to analyze the costs and see what plan works best for them.

The DDP may work perfectly for you and if it does, that's great!


For us we're going to pay OOP in 2008, eat smaller meals and more snacks, and not worry about making sure we're getting the full value of the DDP. From my initial calculations using DDE at TS and dining moderately at CS locations we will save $100+ on a 7 day vacation for 8 people.

 

[Bete]

I just went through all the menus and it's rare to get a $30 entree for table service ala carte; that's not the norm. It's more like an average of $23. If you consider you can probably save $3 to $5 going at lunch for the same meal for table service and use your CS for dinner instead there are even more savings to be had not using the plan. At the end of the day you've had the same results with a table service meal and a counter service meal. I think your body will adjust to a heavier meal earlier than a later one; so, it makes lunch even more attractive for your table service meal. Also, it's less crowded for lunch compared to dinner and that's an added bonus. I know personally I would almost never get a dessert; so, that's not really attracting me to the 2008 plan where the appetizer I would do more times. In addition, I could be very happy with tap water; so, getting a drink is not a big deal for me for either meal. Before the plan came along I was very happy to follow this eating regimen. Up to 2007 I could justify using the plan and I liked the convenience and the all inclusive nature of the plan. Now, I'll just go back to my old way of dining. I will have more choices available for lunch and dinner without the plan. I think it will be nice to be able to just walk in without reservations for a table service lunch at a non-plan restaurant, now.

If you get the most expensive items and you go to the most expensive places the 2008 plan will probably still work to your advantage, but I think that limits your choices greatly. I like the variety of going to different places for my meals; I find it to be part of the fun of the vacation. I see myself doing a $20 table service meal at the most with no dessert and tap water to drink. CS would run me about $8 and one snack at $4 brings my total to $32. I can see myself having two counter service meals on some of the days and skipping a table service meal and saving another $12 per day to bring my total for the day to $20/day for eats. If I do two counter service meals there's no tipping required and I'm more money ahead. I know I'm not comparing apples with apples, but I don't need all the food offered on the plan; so, for me the plan is not worth it anymore. I perceived the old plan as having more value; so, I was willing to give Disney more of my eating budget. It was enjoyable trying all different items on the menus including the different appetizers and desserts but it's not necessary. I feel Disney gave me a wake up call to stop eating as much on my vacation there, now.

 

[pilferk]

I just went through all the menus and it's rare to get a $30 entree for table service ala carte; that's not the norm. It's more like an average of $23. If you consider you can probably save $3 to $5 going at lunch for the same meal for table service and use your CS for dinner instead there are even more savings to be had not using the plan. At the end of the day you've had the same results with a table service meal and a counter service meal. I think your body will adjust to a heavier meal earlier than a later one; so, it makes lunch even more attractive for your table service meal. Also, it's less crowded for lunch compared to dinner and that's an added bonus. I know personally I would almost never get a dessert; so, that's not really attracting me to the 2008 plan where the appetizer I would do more times. In addition, I could be very happy with tap water; so, getting a drink is not a big deal for me for either meal. Before the plan came along I was very happy to follow this eating regimen. Up to 2007 I could justify using the plan and I liked the convenience and the all inclusive nature of the plan. Now, I'll just go back to my old way of dining. I will have more choices available for lunch and dinner without the plan. I think it will be nice to be able to just walk in without reservations for a table service lunch at a non-plan restaurant, now.

If you get the most expensive items and you go to the most expensive places the 2008 plan will probably still work to your advantage, but I think that limits your choices greatly. I like the variety of going to different places for my meals; I find it to be part of the fun of the vacation. I see myself doing a $20 table service meal at the most with no dessert and tap water to drink. CS would run me about $8 and one snack at $4 brings my total to $32. I can see myself having two counter service meals on some of the days and skipping a table service meal and saving another $12 per day to bring my total for the day to $20/day for eats. If I do two counter service meals there's no tipping required and I'm more money ahead. I know I'm not comparing apples with apples, but I don't need all the food offered on the plan; so, for me the plan is not worth it anymore. I perceived the old plan as having more value; so, I was willing to give Disney more of my eating budget. It was enjoyable trying all different items on the menus including the different appetizers and desserts but it's not necessary. I feel Disney gave me a wake up call to stop eating as much on my vacation there, now.

Exactly, it does have to be an individual decision. And there are CERTAINLY ways to spend less on food....as there always have been. Prior to this year, the difference made the value of the plan a no brainer. Now, the difference, as you point out, IS larger so it requires a bit more consideration.

For us, we prefer our TS to be in the evenings. Stopping our touring the parks, mid day, to eat a TS takes too much time from our "prime touring" times. We have 3 younger children, so that effects our decisions.

In addition, it looks like the "break even" on entree is somewhere around $18 to $20, with no dessert, a drink, tax, and tip, With the $18 entree...the totla would be 25.64 + 8.50 CS meal ($8 + tax) + $3.20 for snack ($3 + tax) would total out to 37.34. And I think we can all agree that MOST of the dinner entree's at WDW DO cost more than $18 and that most patrons want something other than water to drink. There are always exceptions which is why, as you point out, you have to evaluate the plans usefulness to you. If you're not going to use all the benefits of the plan, it's probably not going to work out for you.

There's certainly some expections, but the $30 was what the Original Poster I responded to used, so that's what I stuck with.

Also a quick comment on "walking into a TS without a reservation": I wouldn't count on it. The 180 day ressie window is still likely to make TS ressies in short supply. If you're figuring FAR fewer people will use the DDP, and that will result in empty restaurants, I wouldn't assume that quite yet. I'd still make those ADR's, at least until we all see the effect of the DDP changes...and maybe even then.

 

[drag n' fly]

Your kidding right? I'm a HUGE eater and frankly, generally leave any of the meals with food still on my plate. Considering quite a few of the TS meals are buffet style, or all you can eat, I'm really not understanding these comments.

Anyway, in regards to the initial post. I'm also regarding why anyone thinks the plan is STILL not a great deal even without tip and appetizer? Seriously, we just planned out our 2008 April trip, and bought the plan again. Maybe we just eat differently, but considering we do a character meal each day, along with a CS and snack, the plan still saves us a few hundred over paying out of pocket.

 

[patsal]

Disney offers a great variety of restaurants. So if you are a family that really enjoys Character meals and all you care to eat experiences you'll be in better shape using the DDP--if you have children that are priced as children you will be in great shape using the plan as well. If you have tweens the plan starts to fade in value, if you are people who prefer a standard sit down (not doing character meals) or the 2TS options the value diminshes even more--the nicer and more $$$ the smaller the portions--I would not be satisfied if I used my credit at CG--didn't get an app and only had entree and dessert. Now if I only used one credit at CP I would walk away full after soup, salad and whatever I chose as my entree from the buffett. Buffett prices at WDW are very high and the kids prices are over the top--of course you are paying for the character experience so I understand why. The point is every family isn't comprised of the same demographic, every family doesn't eat the same way and many families do not want to spend more time out of the parks and in restaurants 3x per day. Around here it isn't one size fits all and so everyone should be looking at the ages of the party, the eating habits of the party the prices of the places they are choosing and that will help everyone to determine if the DDP and which form of it, if any will fit for them. The savings of course can be found and justified--lets face it the human mind can justify anything it really wants--but not for everyone.

 

[Pirate's Princess]

The standard is 15% for full service and 10% for buffet service. Many people who are more generous than that want the higher number to be the standard.

The 15% number is appropriate if the server does what the server is supposed to do, and nothing more (or less).

I agree those are what I'd consider standards (although I often tip 20% as a personal standard)

But the question what is the server supposed to do (with nothing more or less) I think we all have different expections. After working in the food industry, I'd conclude a server is supposed to be polite (or friendly or in character if the job descriptions states as such--like in 50s PTC), take orders, deliver food promptly (if there aren't runners), and mainly to cater to the customer.

I've worked many customer service jobs, and you are always supposed to be polite and the customer is always right. That's what I'd define as what you're supposed to do and nothing more/less. I don't think it's expecting more than what they're suposed to do. right?

 

[bicker]

Politeness is warranted in all customer/supplier circumstances. Friendliness is not a requirement. At WDW, the requirement to perform in character really inflates the standard... so if you want to consider that the standard, then the standard gratuity really should be 18% or 20% IMHO. After all, why should the waiter at Concourse Steakhouse get the same percentage as the waiter at Prime Time Cafe, for doing the same work equally well, but only one of the two required to put on a big show?

 

[Lauralei]

I'm thinking of trying the DDP in February, have never used it before. For table service we will be going to 5 buffets so it could be okay. I only wish that you could have a choice of getting either an appetizer or a dessert. We would probably prefer appetizers but since only 2 meals are not buffets it may work out. I'm still thinking this over, even as I'm writing this. It just seems like too many desserts. I'm still not sure, will be thinking about it for awhile and checking on what others are saying.

 

[Bete]

The standard is 15% for full service and 10% for buffet service. Many people who are more generous than that want the higher number to be the standard.

The 15% number is appropriate if the server does what the server is supposed to do, and nothing more (or less).

Sorry, I'm politely disagreeing, here. Disney built in a factor of 18% gratuity in their plan regardless if it's buffet or table service. I would think Disney went a long way to figure out what the standard in the industry is for tipping.

Also, buffet servers don't make more than table service servers per hour; so, I really don't understand cutting back on their tip especially so steeply. They bring your drink to you, they refill the drinks and they take away your plates as you enjoy your buffet. They still have to take your order and prepare a bill. Usually, they have a lot more plates to take away from the table than what a table server has to do; let's face it; there's a tendency to overeat at buffets and there's more waste; so, there are more plates. The only difference is actually bringing you your food order which a table server will do. Because of that slight difference between the two, I would probably stick with the 18% for buffet where I would tip more like 20% for a table service server.

 

[bicker]

Sorry, I'm politely disagreeing, here. Disney built in a factor of 18% gratuity in their plan regardless if it's buffet or table service. I would think Disney went a long way to figure out what the standard in the industry is for tipping.

Sorry, but if that actually is the case, then Disney is wrong. Rather, I think Disney would defend their actions based on (1) they were crafting a compensation program for their own internal use, as part of an agreement with their own internal staff; and (2) they feel their restaurants are "different".

Just go to Google and choose any of the thousands of links. Here's the first one that came up for me:

http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/food/manners/buffet-tipping-oct01

At a buffet, ten percent of the bill is customary.

 

[Lauralei]

I just figured out the difference with the DDP and w/o the DDP. For the 3 of us for 7 nights it would only be about $70. This is really not good, considering we wouldn't be spending so much on CS or snacks. I don't think the DDP is any great value, it's practically an even exchange. I think if someone wants to do it, it might be more convenient because you pay ahead of time and won't have to take as much cash or have as large a credit card bill after your trip. But other than that, you come up even. Also if they give you some type of card that has to be scanned, that's another card you have to keep track of. And if you want to change your plans at the last minute because maybe someone doesn't feel good or there's bad weather you'll feel pressured to keep your reservation because then you'll be losing money. Also I really like to buy the Resort Mugs. They are great! I have multiples from 7 different resorts. For the CS meals, this just wouldn't pay.

11/00--Off Site
2/02--Off Site
2/03--AS-Movies
2/04--AKL
2/05-BDWLK VILLAS
2/06--SARSPRVILLAS
8/06--CB
2/07--WLVILLAS
Upcoming-2/08--AKVILLAS

 

[eeyore45]

I also "did the math" for 2008 - I have ressies and went to allearsnet checked those menu prices - and came out thinking we'll just convert cash to Disney Dollars (I think we'd save $34 NOT using the DDP - but if we dont have the DDP we may just drop the Yachtsman Steakhouse ressie - still debating, how much money we can save - no DDP - not as many TS places - even more savings!!) Not having an appetizer - or at least no choice with Dessert and Appetizer (I'd much rather have an appy - and share a dessert - or no dessert at all...) really gives us pause on using a plan..

 

[auntie]

I think it's a good idea to actually check the menus and see exactly what it is you'd be spending...and then decide whether to add the plan or not. We loved the plan in 07 but without the appetizer, I don't know we sort of enjoyed that. Given that we were five people it gave us a chance to try things and share them. Usually we will order a few things and split them, and would still do that, but now having to pay for them...it's not a sure thing to use the plan. I agree that actually looking at the menu prices is a good idea. Since either way..dining plan or not we'd make our table service meals in advance.

 

[DVCajun]

I have a trip next month and a trip in March on the books. I'm getting the DDP in November, but am skipping it in March. It has to be better than "breaking even" for me to use the DDP. Since it takes some of the spontenaity out of the trip and forces you to put money up front for dining you may or may not use, it's not a good value for me unless I feel like Im getting a deal.

It's been fun, but it's over.

 

[auntie]

I have a trip next month and a trip in March on the books. I'm getting the DDP in November, but am skipping it in March. It has to be better than "breaking even" for me to use the DDP. Since it takes some of the spontenaity out of the trip and forces you to put money up front for dining you may or may not use, it's not a good value for me unless I feel like Im getting a deal.

It's been fun, but it's over.

I see your point..and I'd have to say I agree in regards to the plan can take some of the spontenaity out of the trip. That's part of the reason that in all the years we've gone to Disney we've never used the dining plan until last year. It was exactly because it was such an incredible value that we gave up a bit of the spontenaity. I'd have to really add it all up and check the menus to see if that would be the case for our next trip..where as before it was a no brainer. I'm sort of leaning toward a DDE card at this point..it just may be the better value.