No way for the 2008 DP!

[Pirate's Princess]

Politeness is warranted in all customer/supplier circumstances. Friendliness is not a requirement. At WDW, the requirement to perform in character really inflates the standard... so if you want to consider that the standard, then the standard gratuity really should be 18% or 20% IMHO. After all, why should the waiter at Concourse Steakhouse get the same percentage as the waiter at Prime Time Cafe, for doing the same work equally well, but only one of the two required to put on a big show?

I consider friendliness a requirement. In all my customer service jobs, I'm always being told to Smile Smile Smile.

 

[captwinthrop]

I totally agree with Pirate's Princess.

 

[pilferk]

Sorry, I'm politely disagreeing, here. Disney built in a factor of 18% gratuity in their plan regardless if it's buffet or table service. I would think Disney went a long way to figure out what the standard in the industry is for tipping.

Also, buffet servers don't make more than table service servers per hour; so, I really don't understand cutting back on their tip especially so steeply. They bring your drink to you, they refill the drinks and they take away your plates as you enjoy your buffet. They still have to take your order and prepare a bill. Usually, they have a lot more plates to take away from the table than what a table server has to do; let's face it; there's a tendency to overeat at buffets and there's more waste; so, there are more plates. The only difference is actually bringing you your food order which a table server will do. Because of that slight difference between the two, I would probably stick with the 18% for buffet where I would tip more like 20% for a table service server.

Just a point: Buffet servers (because they don't have to take food orders or bring food to the table, etc) typically have MORE tables per server than standard waitstaff does. I'm not saying that's justification for tipping them less, BUT they DO do less overall than standard table waitstaff (you cited exactly what in your post).

 

[bicker]

Some more references for the 10% gratuities at buffet restaurants standard:

The appropriate tip is 10%, says Peter Post, a director of the Emily Post Institute. That's less than the 15% to 20% you would tip a server during a typical restaurant meal because the buffet server isn't doing all the work involved in serving you, including bringing you your food. Still, he says, a tip is necessary because the server during a buffet is still generally providing some service such as clearing your plates, bringing water and taking drink orders. The tip also should always be calculated off the pretax amount regardless of whether you're dining at a buffet or a full service meal. "You don't want to pay a tip on the tax," says Mr. Post.

[Source: Sound Money Tips.]

DEAR ABBY: If I go to a buffet restaurant, how much of a tip should I leave at the table? I want to do it right. My friends have told me that because this is a kind of "self-serve" restaurant, we can leave whatever amount we like. I am ... CONFUSED IN WESTMINSTER, CALIF.

DEAR CONFUSED: If you want to "do it right," leave 10 percent.

[Source: Dear Abby, February 25, 2006.]

Buffet Waiter / Waitress 5% to 10% of the total bill is suggested. This depends heavily on exactly how much work is done by the waitstaff. In some restaurants, the waitstaff does very little. Usually is simply bringing fresh linen and/or utensils. In some other restaurants, the staff brings drinks, and some orders from the kitchen directly.

[Source: The Original Tipping Page.]

 

[gkaussietykes4]

We will be 4 adults, 5 children ages 9, 7, 4, 2, and 1. I'm trying to figure out whether to skip any of the 3 dining plans and just go for the DDE card. Since so many are not happy with the new plan.

Is there a link or could someone tell me how they are coming up with whether or not any dining plan works for them.

Thanks!!!

 

[pilferk]

We will be 4 adults, 5 children ages 9, 7, 4, 2, and 1. I'm trying to figure out whether to skip any of the 3 dining plans and just go for the DDE card. Since so many are not happy with the new plan.

Is there a link or could someone tell me how they are coming up with whether or not any dining plan works for them.

Thanks!!!

I can try to work something up for you tomorrow, but here's the million dollar question: Is your 9 year old satisfied eating off the kids menus? If they are, you'd want one set of numbers. If not, and you are either going to "supplement" with apps OR you'd buy them the adult DDP, it would require some different numbers.

Usually, with kids, the value is MUCH greater with the DDP. 9.99 per day, per kid, is tough to beat considering the OOP cost of their food...especially if you do some character buffets, etc. With young kids, it's still (IMHO) a ridiculous value. With older kids, it becomes more dependant on how big an eater they are, and what menu they want to order from. I know 9 yo kids who have no problem ordering, and are filled, by a kids meals. I know others who feel you're asking them to commit social suicide OR go away hungry if forced to eat off a kids menu......so you need to take that into account (as I'm sure you are) when looking at scenarios.

 

[gkaussietykes4]

Pilferk, thanks so much for trying to help me. I've exhausted my poor brain trying to figure this out. My 9 yr old is so picky, I probably would stick with the children's menu with her. The 7 yr old she eats anything, but can be picky. They both didn't like the mac n cheese at WDW, since it wasn't the kind out of the box. Our 4 yr old would eat anything, he'll eat off the children's or the adult's menu. He's the best eater out of the 3 or should I say 4 after I deliver our #4 in the next couple of days.

 

[auntie]

I believe that with the ages of your kids you really should consider the dining plan. What is it for kids..something like $10.00 a day? You can't feed your kids anywhere for that. I think the dining for kids is a real bargain..even with the changes to the plan. It's when they get a year or two older and you are paying an adult price for the child who isn't eating an adult amount, that it doesn't make sense to do the dining....until they get just a bit older and make it worth while to spend that adult price.

 

[gkaussietykes4]

Auntie,
Which dining plan would you suggest? I read in other posts, most with children our age are ging to try the deluxe dining plan. Most of these families are doing this plan because it offers them an appetizer. I was telling Pilferk that I might look into the DDE card.

 

[auntie]

I've only used the plan where you had one counter service meal, one table service meal and one snack per person ..per day. It was more than enough food for us. I'm not familiar with the other's..I do realize they cut the appetizer out of the table service meal..but are your kids really going to be eating appetizers? Why pay the extra money for that plan with children so young. Even if you and your husband wanted an appetizer..you'd only be paying out of pocket for two of them, should you choose to order them. Also..my kids at those ages weren't thrilled to be having "sit down" dinners. One a day would be plenty. You aren't going to feed your kids anywhere for two meals..one counter service and the other one a sit down table service plus a snack for less than the $10.00 they are charging. I think that's a tremendous value for kids. As I mentioned once they are 10 you are going to be paying the adult rate..no matter which plan you choose. I'm thinking that's probably a tough call ..because most 10 year olds aren't eating adult portions yet, but you'd be paying the adult rate. I say take advantage of the kid price while you can. Even if worst case scenario you wound up buying a few meals for them...the plan only cost you $10.00...you will spend more than that if you pay out of pocket for their meals.

 

[Bete]

Which dining plan would you suggest? I read in other posts, most with children our age are ging to try the deluxe dining plan. Most of these families are doing this plan because it offers them an appetizer. I was telling Pilferk that I might look into the DDE card.

The plans have to be an individual choice whether they are worth it or not.

Many with children prefer to do 2 counter service meals and skip table service. You don't need any reservations with counter service; you don't have a set time to eat for any meal that way. Typically, counter service meals are quicker; so, you can have more time enjoying the park. It's more relaxed with counter service meals, too. Finally, counter service requires no tip. In this case it's better not to do the plan if you do all or most counter service only. You can do a few lunch table service meals OOP for $3to $5 cheaper per adult without the plan if you really want a sit down experience and probably still be money ahead without the plan. You can do a few lunch table service meals without doing table service everyday without the plan.

Some people do one meal each day and do more snacks everyday. In this case the plan is not worth it. Others go out of Disney to eat and they don't want a dining plan.

As previously stated with younger children (under 10) any of the dining plans are still a very good value. If you leave any credits on the table then it starts diminishing the value of it.

I think the best way to decide about doing a plan or no plan is to look at the menu prices and make selections that suit your family and do the math at the places you think you want to do.

The deluxe plan is used by many to go to the 2 credit table service dining places like Cinderella's Royal Table. You don't necessarily do three meals each day; you just do the more expensive, nicer table service places on the plan that require two credits per meal. Even then you may be better off out of pocket if you don't want to do 2 credit places everyday. Most people find two meals to be enough each day.

If you are good eaters then the dining plan can be advantageous. If you pick the most expensive places and the most expensive items to eat the plan can be a good thing. As mentioned before you can still get the basic plan and add an appetizer OOP and be money ahead over the deluxe plan.

I started this thread and I don't see the dining plan as a good deal for myself anymore for 2008. We prefer no dessert and we like counter service better than table service and we usually share one appetizer and we are ok with tap water. If we go to a table service, lunch time is cheaper and less crowded and a better deal for us OOP. Also, we don't do the most expensive meal items.

This will continue to be a hot topic. There is no doubt the 2007 plan was a better value for most, but alas, that time has ended. You really need to do the math.

 

[pilferk]

Auntie,
Which dining plan would you suggest? I read in other posts, most with children our age are ging to try the deluxe dining plan. Most of these families are doing this plan because it offers them an appetizer. I was telling Pilferk that I might look into the DDE card.

Personally, I'd stick with the standard DDP with your kids.

The Deluxe DDP is nice, if you can take a slower pace, and are willing to eat 2 to 3 TS meals per day and/or eat in signature restaurants.

With young kids...sometimes they're just not happy taking that time away from the parks, especially if they don't go very often. I'm not sure WHAT your travel habits are, so maybe you go frequently and/or your kids prefer a slower pace. But, by and large, I think the standard DDP, with one snack, one Counter Service, and one Table Service seems to strike a nice balance between touring time and eating time.

I'm going to run some numbers in a few minutes for you, but given the scenario you gave, above, I'm thinking you're going to see a pretty good value in the standard DDP.

 

[pilferk]

Pilferk, thanks so much for trying to help me. I've exhausted my poor brain trying to figure this out. My 9 yr old is so picky, I probably would stick with the children's menu with her. The 7 yr old she eats anything, but can be picky. They both didn't like the mac n cheese at WDW, since it wasn't the kind out of the box. Our 4 yr old would eat anything, he'll eat off the children's or the adult's menu. He's the best eater out of the 3 or should I say 4 after I deliver our #4 in the next couple of days.

OK, time to throw you a BUNCH of numbers. First, though, an explanation: I'm assuming you're going to use your TS credits at dinner, and your CS credits at lunch. That seems to be the way most people do it, and also provides the most value for the plan. All the numbers sort of "stem" from that assumption. I'm also going to assume you're there for 6 nights, and are going to do 3 "traditional" TS, 2 Character meals, and one non-character buffet/all you can eat meal (Boma's or Ohana's are examples). I'll give you enough numbers, though, so you can play with that to make it more specific to what you're thinking.

I'm ALSO going to assume your 1 year old is either going to share off your plates, or will be eating baby food/formula rather than Disney food. The other tricky part is your 2 year old. The "cut off" for the DDP is typically 3, but I think they'll allow you to purchase it for you 2 yo (or even your 1 yo) if you insist. I'm going to assume they will....you may see dissenting from other posters who have had more experience in that so keep an eye out for them. It may be a big factor for you.

I went through the menu's and prices at allears.net, so my numbers are based on those.

Looking at all the TS "sit down" single credit places, I came up with an average entree price of 21.59, an average desert price of 6.35, and an average drink price of 2.30. An average dinner kids meal was 7.50, and that INCLUDED drink and dessert.

Looking at the Character meals, the average adult price was 28.39, the average kids price was 13.39.

Looking at non-character buffets/all you can eats the average adult price was 25.49, and the average kids price was 11.99

Looking at CS meals for adults, the average entree was 7.62, the average drink was 2.39, and the average dessert was 3.22.

For Children's CS meals, the average meal 3.99 and included drink and dessert.

I'm going to use the standard $3 per snack per person number.

Ready? Here we go!

DDP cost for 4 adults, 4 kids for 6 days would be as follows:

37.99 x 4 adults x 6 days = 911.76 (or 151.96 per day)
9.99 x 4 kids x 6 days = 239.76 (or 39.96 per day)

Total DDP cost for 6 days = 1151.52 (or 191.92 per day). We'll add tips to this number as we go to figure out your "Total cost ON the DDP".

Here's the 3 different Out of Pocket (OOP) Scenarios:

Traditional Sit down TS:
21.59 (average TS adult entree) x 4 = 86.36
6.35 (average TS adult dessert) x 4 = 25.40
2.30 (average TS drink price) x 4 = 9.20
7.50 (average TS kids meal) x 4 = 30
Tax: 9.06
Tip: 27.18

Total "Sit down" TS: 187.20

CS Lunch:
7.69 (Average adult CS meal) x 4 = 30.76
3.22 (average adult CS dessert) x 4 = 12.88
2.39 (average adult CS drink) x 4 = 9.56
3.99 (average child CS meal) x 4 = 15.96
Tax: 4.15

Total CS: 73.31

Snacks:

3 x 8 = 24
Tax: 1.44

Total Snack: 25.44

Total "Sit Down" TS day OOP: 285.95

Total Cost for day on DDP: 191.92 (DDP cost) + 27.18 (tip at TS) = 219.10

We'll reuse the CS and Snack total for the other 2 Scenarios:

Character Dinner Buffet:

28.39 (Averge adult character buffet price) x 4 = 113.56
13.39 (Average kids character buffet price) x 4 = 53.56
Tax: 10.03
Tip: 30.08

Total for Character Dinner Buffet: 207.23

Total CS: 73.31

Total Snack: 25.44

Total for "Character Buffet" TS day OOP: 305.98
Total for "Character Buffet" TS day on DDP: 191.92 + 30.08 = 222


Non-Character all you can eat meal:

25.49 (average adult AYCE price) x 4 = 101.96
11.99 (average kids AYCE price) x 4 = 47.96
Tax 9.00
Tip 26.99

Total for AYCE meal: 185.91

Total CS: 73.31

Total Snacks: 25.44

Total Non-Character AYCE day OOP: 284.66
Total Non-Character AYCE day on DDP: 191.92 + 26.99 = 218.91

So for the 6 days, give the breakdown I'm assuming (3 sit down, 2 character, 1 noncharacter ayce), here's what I get:

OOP:
285.95 (Sit down) x 3 = 857.85
305.98 (Character meal) x 2 = 611.96
284.66 (AYCE) x 1 = 284.66

Total OOP: 1754.47

DDP:
219.10 (sit down) x 3 = 657.30
222.00 (Character meal) x 2 = 444.00
218.91 (AYCE) x 1 = 218.91

Total on the DDP: 1320.21

Savings looks like it would be about 25%. Sure looks worthwhile to me.

Now, if you're not likely to eat dessert, or order drinks, or you prefer your "big meal" at lunch, or a whole host of other variables, those numbers aren't going to be of much help. You'll need to sort of go over the numbers and tailor them to your specific situation. A good place to start is the dining section at www.allears.net...they have menus and prices.

Hope the above is of some help.

 

[Tricia1972]

Total OOP: 1754.47

Total on the DDP: 1320.21

Savings looks like it would be about 25%. Sure looks worthwhile to me.

Now, if you're not likely to eat dessert, or order drinks, or you prefer your "big meal" at lunch, or a whole host of other variables, those numbers aren't going to be of much help. You'll need to sort of go over the numbers and tailor them to your specific situation. A good place to start is the dining section at www.allears.net...they have menus and prices.

Hope the above is of some help.

Those are great figures! I think that those are about the numbers that we came up with when figuring out the value of the DDP for our family in 2007. What we ran into personally is that it was just too much food for us. So I really appreciate the last paragraph of the post!

For us we found that even one full CS meal for all of us was too much, but we are big grazers. We're much happier sharing our CS meals, not ordering the dessert, getting drinks for all of us, and then grabbing a snack later on.

I think that everyone considering the DDP should really look at their own personal eating habits to see if they seem to 'mesh' with what the DDP is.

 

[Pirate's Princess]

I think that everyone considering the DDP should really look at their own personal eating habits to see if they seem to 'mesh' with what the DDP is.

I totally agree. I think the best way to figure if it works, is to do a spreadsheet. I had each day (with planned restaurants, ADRs and CS), figured a $3 avg for a snack, and then actually looked through the menus and plugged in what I'm most likely to order. Granted I enjoy doing this to begin with (big food obsesser over here! ) And then it was just . Calculated the differences, I'm saving between 15-20 % (I even put in the difference if I wouldn't order dessert at CS and it was still a savings.)

True I could eat at different places if I wanted to, and spend less, but I want to eat at Le Cellier and Coral! This way I can go there and order whatever I want and not feel inclined to order the less expensive meal. I also did not include tip and it's a OOP expense regardless.

I think the value is really there for kids under 10! My trip is just me and my DBF is only saving 15-20%, but with character meals, paying 9.99 is ridiculous!!! Plus they still get a regular snack! If I had kids I'd totally take advantage of this!!

 

[gkaussietykes4]

Pilferk, thanks so much for that. I copied and pasted it so I have it in my notes. I think your all right, we'll just go for the regular dining plan. This past Sept when we went we only did sit downs either early in the morning for breaky to help get us started on the day, or in the evenings when we had a long day at the park. For some reason we had tons of snack credits left, I should have got the hubby to run down and buy a whole bunch of the rice crispy treats, instead he bought water bottles, and since we couldn't drink tem all or take them on the plane they got thrown out. I should have just given them to another family before we left the resort so they didn't go to waste. Live and learn. This time, I'll make sure it all gets used up, day by day.

I was thinking when the older one has to start buying an adult plan, I can get her to share it with her sister. I don't know if Disney will allow that though. Because if memeory serves me right, if you get the dining plan, everyone who is in your party has to get it. I'm going to have to work something out when the time comes. But for now, we're good!

 

[pilferk]

Pilferk, thanks so much for that. I copied and pasted it so I have it in my notes. I think your all right, we'll just go for the regular dining plan. This past Sept when we went we only did sit downs either early in the morning for breaky to help get us started on the day, or in the evenings when we had a long day at the park. For some reason we had tons of snack credits left, I should have got the hubby to run down and buy a whole bunch of the rice crispy treats, instead he bought water bottles, and since we couldn't drink tem all or take them on the plane they got thrown out. I should have just given them to another family before we left the resort so they didn't go to waste. Live and learn. This time, I'll make sure it all gets used up, day by day.

I was thinking when the older one has to start buying an adult plan, I can get her to share it with her sister. I don't know if Disney will allow that though. Because if memeory serves me right, if you get the dining plan, everyone who is in your party has to get it. I'm going to have to work something out when the time comes. But for now, we're good!

You're quite welcome.

We'll likely do the "crispy treat run" on our last day...but we're driving, so the snacks will be great for the trip home.

You're right about the DDP. If you get it, everyone in your room has to get it. Now, with 8 of you, you might not all be in the same room, but the rules are you can't share with anyone not on the plan, so....

That doesn't, however, preclude you from using your oldest's "extra" as the sharing plate for the youngest, or even for the rest of the younger kids. We eat "family style" a lot...we all order something different and split it up amongst the 4 of us. Or the kids each order something different and split 'em between the two of them (or, rather, we split it up for them).

 

[asmit4]

It seems to me that the kids are still a great deal, but the adults aren't as much. If we had 2 or 3 kids, we'd do the DDP, but with just the 2 of us, it's not worth it.

 

[Merilyn]

I took my 1 year old grandson and he was able to eat off our plates. At Garden Grill, they even brought him a childs plate and we didn't have to pay for it. We are still trying to decide on the plan for 2008. I really like some of the places to eat that aren't on there anymore. That is really one of my main complaints. It seems there are fewer places to eat. I loved Pepper Market and thats not on there anymore. I do wish they had just added 10 dollars and kept everything the same. It would have been easier for me. I don't like having to deal with money for appies and tip. I know you can charge it, but I don't want to fool with it. I guess I will just wait and see if the places I like to eat are added, and then decide if we are going to use it.

 

[Mr Man]

We will be doing the standard DDP in 2008. I never really considered it a "value" in the first place (kinda like EVERYTHING else at WDW isn't really a value-just addictive, super cool & expensive).

DDP is a convenience and thus worthwhile to me and mine.

As an aside, since no-one will be using the DDP, I wonder if it will be easier to get PS (always planning Mr Man.....that's why I like you. Mwua haha). Moot point I suppose as we already have ours reserved.

Have a nice day.