Trusting Someone

[WebmasterMaryJo]

Sorry you're going through this, and best of luck. I think that one of the things that manipulative people do to their 'targets' is they try to keep them off balance so that the focus stays away from their actions. If she is spending time defending her relationship with her brother, why she needs to give up her friend, justify visiting any other family members, etc., she has less time to pay attention to his actions that he doesn't want her notice.

 

[sk!mom]

I wish I could. I am neither A nor is A my husband. But we have a huge decision to make based on our feelings on this person. We don’t have to trust A as long as the SO does. But we do have to feel right about the decision we make before it hurts someone.

It is a lot of drama. I wish I had never been given the information. I do think that some of the people involved cause a lot of unecessary drama and have removed these people from our lives.

We held onto the information for a few weeks trying to decide what to do with it. Ignore it, ask for the proof or just ask. We decided to ask and now A is mad that we went to them at all. I expected it to be because we didn’t just ignore it and was ready to accept that. The fact that it’s because we asked them rather than having a conversation with just the SO sort of threw me for a loop.

Edited: now that I have all the information this response was not a good one.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Can anybody post a link to info about where one can not get married until 21 without a parent/guardian signature.
That is just beyond belief and understanding.
18 is an adult, and the age of consent in most places is 16 or 17....
What about young adults who have controlling or abusive parents?

Okay, also, OP I also have to very much question why you had them both with you and talked to them and involved yourself.
That was one big mistake, right out of the gate.
I hope that you are re-thinking this.
You chose to include and pander-to this man.
Aside from the more important concerns... You chose to invite this 'drama' into your home. Now his mother is involved.
Why did you ever do anything other than, MAYBE, speak privately with your daughter?????

The fact that the title of this thread is, basically, should YOU trust him....
That really stands out to me.

I will say, once again....
You really need to back away from this, immediately...totally.
Focus on your personal relationship with your daughter.
If she does come to her senses, or things come to a very bad situation.... she will need to know that you are there for her.
Do not, under any circumstances involve yourself and speak negatively of him, or you are playing into their system.
Hoping that this has not happened already... but anything like that will definitely be used as a tool for him to create more of an US against them mindset.

 

[NHdisneylover]

In Mississippi and in Puerto Rico you have to be 21 to marry without parental consent

 

[Wishing on a star]

Good Lord...
Are these both not States or territories in the United States of America, in the year 2018.

What is this, like the Middle East....

While this might be a useful thing for the OP in this situation.
And, I would take advantage of it if I felt I absolutely needed to.
As a woman, I find this almost disturbing.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I tend to agree---either someone is an adult capable of making their own decisions or they are not----but we do it with legal drinking age too, in most states.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Yes, the full drinking age is 21 here, too.

I can KIND of understand that, because I think it is a proven life-and-death public health and safety issue. Especially when handing out driver's licenses and allowing all drinking for these teenagers/young adults.

I do think that putting this kind of restriction or control on who one can be with is, well, there are no DIS friendly words.

 

[mjkacmom]

On our last cruise, my 19 and 20 year olds weren’t allowed to be booked in a connecting cabin without someone 21 or older. Most car rental agencies require renters to be 21 or older. It’s illegal for those under 21 to buy cigarettes in my state.

Personally, I’d much rather my 18 year old cruise and drive rental cars than get married.

 

[cabanafrau]

Textbook manipulations by an abusive and controlling individual. Educate yourself on this personality so that you can learn how best to counter his maneuvers without engaging him. As was mentioned upthread make certain your daughter understands the bottom line is your love, care and concern can never be severed.

Recognize that your daughter walked into a beautifully landscaped, zero entry pool -- a paradise. She didn't get a good enough look to realize that the landscaping was all fake and now the sun's in her eyes and he's made sure she won't find her sunglasses. She also doesn't realize that she actually has in fact the entire time been swimming in a carefully camouflaged pot, not a pool. The temperature was carefully calculated to be comfortable when she got in, but the entire time since then it's been on simmer and the temperature is doing nothing but rising. At this point convincing your daughter of the reality of her situation is not going to be a simple reveal of the fake plants, hidden sunglasses and the pot bubbling away over the flame. Every bit of evidence she has is she's stumbled into paradise and she will not welcome being told otherwise -- and no doubt will all the while be told that it's simply all of you being jealous of her moving on and being happy.

Educate yourself about these types of relationships and personalities. Go to the bookstore, Amazon, the library, etc. Learn all you can. If you can locate a good therapist who is willing to help YOU formulate a plan to remain connected to and ultimately extricate your daughter from a dangerous situation it will be money well spent. At this point back down from any controversy with your daughter or the boyfriend -- and by all means do not get tangled up in his mother's web. If you interact with her or her son, make certain you project to them that the entire issue is in the past and you're all beyond that now. It's important you are better empowered to deal with this type of personality before he begins to marginalize your relationship and communication with your daughter. That's absolutely what's coming next.

 

[MamaBelle4]

On our last cruise, my 19 and 20 year olds weren’t allowed to be booked in a connecting cabin without someone 21 or older. Most car rental agencies require renters to be 21 or older. It’s illegal for those under 21 to buy cigarettes in my state.

Personally, I’d much rather my 18 year old cruise and drive rental cars than get married.

I get that and certainly don't want my children getting married that young. But if you're old enough to die for your country, you SHOULD be old enough to get married without a permission slip.

I am grateful for it in this instance though as it gives OP's daughter some time to grow and think through it.

 

[Wishing on a star]

EXCELLENT post #69 just above....

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Read your story. That is a tough one. Not sure what I would do with all those details.

 

[sk!mom]

Oh Lordy, I am making a mess of this secret stuff.

Ok it is my daughter and her fiancé who she lives with. I was contacted by someone who never said he cheated but that the whole time they have been together, he has been trying to get back with his ex. That is the part I didn’t need an answer on.

We talked to them together. We never talked to him alone. He is mad that we didn’t just talk to dd. But funny enough, the last time we wanted to see dd alone to talk about school and what was going on at the time, he almost had a panic attack. Waited until they weren’t together and called and told her she needed to move home so he wouldn’t be blamed for messing up her education-which wasn’t even close to what we were wanting to talk to her about. Had her just about hysterical. When we have gone down to see her when he is working nights, he wants it to be that we meet him to go eat on his lunch hour.

His ex claims he was mentally abusive part of which was cutting her off from her friends and family. While dd has not been cut off from any of us, we have seen some behavior we questioned. And what the ex related seemed to fill in those answers. For instance, he had to work Christmas Eve. She was coming to her grandmother’s. He got mad because she was leaving an hour before he went to work to get there. She left crying because he made her feel guilty. Other times he has made her feel like she couldn’t spend the gas money to come see us. We agree to put gas in her car and he backs off.

Since we basically have to go to her, it would have been impossible to see her without him.

We really don’t care if he was talking to his ex. That is for dd to decide if she trusts him or if it is true.

And both of them said immediately that they knew this was being claimed( that he was talking to his ex) Ok, no problem. Everything is good. And then he wanted to know why we believed the person telling me over him. I told him we didn’t. But some other things that were said had us concerned and we felt it necessary to talk to them. That is when he went out and called his mom, cane back in and went to the bedroom and wouldn’t come out. I never had a chance to say anything else.

We do care if he is abusive in any way.
I did talk to Dd alone about it the next day.

Just a few months ago we really liked this guy. Thought he was great for dd. Truly felt this relationship was great. And then other stuff started going on. She had a friend that both she and ds were very close to. Well the fiancé decided he doesn’t like the friend for one reason or another and they are no longer friends. We haven’t said anything one way or the other about it. Ds has questioned it as he is still friends with the guy but I told him he had to ask dd.

Now the fiancé has decided he doesn’t like Ds. But when asked why, he doesn’t actually have an answer. I think the last one that was given was he is disrespectful. How? “It’s not worth explaing”. ????? So far dd’s answer has been “well he is my brother so get over it”.

The problem with not dealing with this,imo, is it’s not going away. This proof has been offered to several people, ds included. Dd and her bf, do not have anything to do with the people who have this “proof” but they do hang out with and are friends with a lot of the same people. (His decision that he doesn’t like ds seems to coincide with finding out ds has been offered the proof although Ds has not seen it and said specifically he didn’t want to see it).

And according to dd, his mom is going to handle it by getting revenge and hurting them like they hurt her son. Ok, not something I want dd to be a part of.

I spent part of yesterday with both of them. He doesn’t act mad in any way but keeps making jokes about cheating. And making cracks toward ds. But I have been told that none of this can be discussed as it will cause a panic attack.

Part of our issue with dealing with this is we have sort of been down this road before. When ds married the first time we had some strong suspicions about the girl. We actually saw her with some guys when ds was out of town one night. Ds would not see it or hear it. They got married. 5 years later, his whole word got torn out from under him.

The decision is whether to sign for her to get married. She can’t marry in this state until she is 21. That will put the wedding off another year which is what we have decided to do.

Now, I see your concern. My DD21 was in a similar relationship at 16- a very controlling boyfriend. Luckily she was too young to move in or become isolated from us so we were able to help her see the negatives with time.

The red flags are numerous with the least being whether he cheated or wanted the old girlfriend back.

Seize every chance to see your DD. Let her know that you are concerned for her.

Good luck- This is tough!

 

[luvsJack]

We are just leaving it alone for now. We talk to her every day so as long as that continues we know its ok.

As I learn more about how to deal with this and him, (thanks cabanafrau for the advise!), we will follow that and see how it goes.

The main thing is, like everyone says, is for dd to know we are here for her. We talk to her every day and her brothers and sil have started texting her every day. Hopefully when it comes to the time she needs us, she won't hesitate to reach out to one of us.

 

[luvsJack]

Can anybody post a link to info about where one can not get married until 21 without a parent/guardian signature.
That is just beyond belief and understanding.
18 is an adult, and the age of consent in most places is 16 or 17....
What about young adults who have controlling or abusive parents?

Okay, also, OP I also have to very much question why you had them both with you and talked to them and involved yourself.
That was one big mistake, right out of the gate.
I hope that you are re-thinking this.
You chose to include and pander-to this man.
Aside from the more important concerns... You chose to invite this 'drama' into your home. Now his mother is involved.
Why did you ever do anything other than, MAYBE, speak privately with your daughter?????

The fact that the title of this thread is, basically, should YOU trust him....
That really stands out to me.

I will say, once again....
You really need to back away from this, immediately...totally.
Focus on your personal relationship with your daughter.
If she does come to her senses, or things come to a very bad situation.... she will need to know that you are there for her.
Do not, under any circumstances involve yourself and speak negatively of him, or you are playing into their system.
Hoping that this has not happened already... but anything like that will definitely be used as a tool for him to create more of an US against them mindset.

Like I said, its almost impossible to see her alone without him. Plus, we felt that it was better not to go behind his back with the accusations. We thought, that the accusations would be easily shot down.

He chose to call his Mom, I didn't include her. And when she talked to me, it was mostly a smile and nod from me. I knew she was lying to me and wasn't going to respond to it.

I have spent time with both dd and him since we talked to them. Have talked to him on the phone. Either he is really good at faking or he thinks every thing is ok with us. Right now he seems busy trying to find a way to blame ds which is very odd. DS talks to dd constantly too through text but I told him just don't mention it, so he acts like he doesn't have a clue about any of it.

 

[cabanafrau]

Something else to be mindful of, another obstacle for those who find themselves in these situations is they are often warned by friends and family and cannot see it until they are neck deep. They don't think they can reach out to family and friends because they feel they've burned the bridge or are shamed because they wouldn't listen to the warnings and now they see they were fooled.

You're a mom, so I'm sure you'll keep rebuilding the bridge if you gotta steal the Golden Gate to do the job. It's often trickier to be mindful about the shame component creeping in and building a wall that you don't see and your daughter might be afraid to try to climb.

Lot's of positive energy and strength to you as you do the mom thing to get your daughter through this.

 

[bobgobblin15]

Rumors just don't go around without a reason.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I agree luvsJack, do what you can to try to hold off on that marriage! Our daughters are around the same age (mine is 20) and she's had to tackle one of these types of relationships before, too, unfortunately.

It was very subtle to us at first, but a pp is right - there is likely a lot more to it than what you are seeing, especially where she lives with him, away from you. When I heard some of the things he'd said to her, in jealousy, after their relationship ended, I was pretty appalled. Yet he came off as this great guy. He, too, had begun making little moves to separate her from her family and isolate them as a couple as much as possible. Going to a family event was out of the question for him, or elsewhere, and those were some of the first red flags for her.

DD and I talked a lot about what normal is. Most of the people in her life have been pretty good role models for relationships, including us. She knew it, but once we pointed it out, it became clear to her that his behavior wasn't normal, nor was it something she'd want to live with long term. And thankfully it ended.

One thing that's coming out at me here is something I've noticed happening with some of the young men of today, especially those that are into fitness and bodybuilding, as I'd imagine that a wrestler would be... and I'm sure I might take some flak for this, but that's ok. Some of these powders and potions (if not anabolic steroids) that these young men are taking under the guise of fitness may have some nasty side effects, and those can include anxiety, rage, intense mood swings, profound jealousy, off-putting behavior to girlfriends, etc. You can google around rather than taking my word for it. But that very well might be part of what's going on here.

Furthermore, if someone's around that type of behavior with like-minded people, then it becomes their norm. Someone from outside may see it as bizarre, but someone on the inside could get desensitized to it over time. Maybe the best you could hope for is that your DD will tire of the whole scene and want to get out. Once she's out she may see it in a different light.

I do wish you all the best of luck.

 

[luvsJack]

Just to update a little: Dd and I had a day together today. We talked a lot at lunch and I told her to remember that we are always there and never to hesitate to call us or one of her brothers. We did talk about why people say he is controlling (she brought it up). She still doesn’t see it but a lot of what she told me about his past could explain his actions. But I still worry that he is using the stories of his past to make her feel sorry for him.

When we got back to their house he was getting ready for work. She and I were looking at wedding stuff (still putting it off but looking at the prices of things so I have numbers). He was so negative. He kept saying we could do it for so much cheaper and we should let his mom figure it out. And that dd could have everything she wants but cheaper.

3 times now either he or his mom have tried to change things.

Dd originally wanted a beach wedding. He doesn’t want the beach. Ok fine. So Dd and he together agreed on a fairytale themed wedding. She wants night with lots of twinkling lights His mom tried to shoot that down. But I spoke up for dd and said, it will be night if she wants night.

And the last just about made me go off on him. Dd has two uncles that are preachers. The first wedding decision she made was that both of her uncles would take part in the ceremony. We were on the phone with Dd and teasing her a little about them having to meet with both of her uncles. He immediately started saying he has a preacher he wants. He has known this was important to her from day one! I was furious! Didn’t say anything but was so very mad. It would be different if he had a church he went to and a preacher he was close to. Not the case at all. The only church he has attended doesn’t exist anymore and the building is for sale.

Anyway, back to today, he made some crack about “oh, I am not supposed to say anything about all this”. I just looked at him. Then Dd asked him about venues closer to where we live (about an hour away from them) and he said “well we can to make it easier for your family but none of my friends will come that far”. And of course that made Dd feel bad.

Right before I left, two of his/their friends came over and they acted very unfriendly towards me which is very unusual for these particular people. So no clue what that was about.

He now says he has no problems with ds, but when Dd mentioned her brother, he sulled up and wouldn’t talk.

I don’t know. On one hand I feel like maybe I have started being too hard on him and reading too much into everything. OTOH, I feel like I am seeing the real him. I just know that I didn’t like him very much today and in the past I never left after spending time with them feeling as negative about him as I do now.

 

[sonnyjane]

Just to update a little: Dd and I had a day together today. We talked a lot at lunch and I told her to remember that we are always there and never to hesitate to call us or one of her brothers. We did talk about why people say he is controlling (she brought it up). She still doesn’t see it but a lot of what she told me about his past could explain his actions. But I still worry that he is using the stories of his past to make her feel sorry for him.

When we got back to their house he was getting ready for work. She and I were looking at wedding stuff (still putting it off but looking at the prices of things so I have numbers). He was so negative. He kept saying we could do it for so much cheaper and we should let his mom figure it out. And that dd could have everything she wants but cheaper.

3 times now either he or his mom have tried to change things.

Dd originally wanted a beach wedding. He doesn’t want the beach. Ok fine. So Dd and he together agreed on a fairytale themed wedding. She wants night with lots of twinkling lights His mom tried to shoot that down. But I spoke up for dd and said, it will be night if she wants night.

And the last just about made me go off on him. Dd has two uncles that are preachers. The first wedding decision she made was that both of her uncles would take part in the ceremony. We were on the phone with Dd and teasing her a little about them having to meet with both of her uncles. He immediately started saying he has a preacher he wants. He has known this was important to her from day one! I was furious! Didn’t say anything but was so very mad. It would be different if he had a church he went to and a preacher he was close to. Not the case at all. The only church he has attended doesn’t exist anymore and the building is for sale.

Anyway, back to today, he made some crack about “oh, I am not supposed to say anything about all this”. I just looked at him. Then Dd asked him about venues closer to where we live (about an hour away from them) and he said “well we can to make it easier for your family but none of my friends will come that far”. And of course that made Dd feel bad.

Right before I left, two of his/their friends came over and they acted very unfriendly towards me which is very unusual for these particular people. So no clue what that was about.

He now says he has no problems with ds, but when Dd mentioned her brother, he sulled up and wouldn’t talk.

I don’t know. On one hand I feel like maybe I have started being too hard on him and reading too much into everything. OTOH, I feel like I am seeing the real him. I just know that I didn’t like him very much today and in the past I never left after spending time with them feeling as negative about him as I do now.

Ughhhhhh. I do NOT like him!!!