Response to ADA Suit

I've never argued that unlimited rides should be the accommodation; I do argue that that saying a recognized feature of a disability does not exist because nuerotyical' folks experience something vaguely similar is uninformed at the least and bigoted at the worst. Notice that that always leads to your point.... people with cognitive and developmental delays should just stay home. Why is it that if one accommodation will not work, not possible alternative other than stay home can be created?

I don't personally think that people are saying it doesn't exist, just that it does not need to be accommodated by Disney according to the ADA.

People post all the time that without 'xyz' accommodation they can't go to Disney. If it's not legally necessary to provide and Disney isn't doing it, the only alternative is to visit somewhere else. I really think though that people take the attitude of needing one specific thing or not being able to go a bit to the extreme. I've seen a lot of posts that say 'we made it work but it took the spontaneity out of it/required more planning.' Which may not be favorable, but it doesn't mean it doesn't work.
 
. . . I am also very curious about the "Magic List" that is referred to. Does this really exist? . . .
They seems to be misinformed there is not "Magic List" it is called a "Magic File" any guest who has stayed on property or lodged a formal complaint with Guest Relations has one . . .


1) Yes, it does exist.
2) Has been around since at least 2005, of which I personally know.
3) The official name is "Magic List", but we refer to it as "The Mooch List".
4) There are more entries of complainers and those with comp'd items, than other listings.
. . . it shows chronic complainers
. . . it shows the comp's given to the guest
. . . typically, MINOR complaints are not listed
. . . it is company-wide, as WDW complainers might show at DL and complain
5) This helps when they complain again, as the CM or Manager might refuse action.
 
Oh no I don't like the sound of this list!

We are planning on asking for DAS as I have Myasthenia Gravis and if will struggle with the lines - there is a good chance I will need to leave the lines to manage seizures or go to first aid.

When the CM scans my magic band will they see that we have comped extra fast passes as I had problems with my booking (I didn't complain a lovely customer service lady called after it was fixed and offered them to us). I also once complained that I was left without food at a pre-paid event because the manager went to get the allergy binder and never came back then none of the cast members in the area could find him!

Will they scan my band and think I'm a whinger?
 
Oh no I don't like the sound of this list!

We are planning on asking for DAS as I have Myasthenia Gravis and if will struggle with the lines - there is a good chance I will need to leave the lines to manage seizures or go to first aid.

When the CM scans my magic band will they see that we have comped extra fast passes as I had problems with my booking (I didn't complain a lovely customer service lady called after it was fixed and offered them to us). I also once complained that I was left without food at a pre-paid event because the manager went to get the allergy binder and never came back then none of the cast members in the area could find him!

Will they scan my band and think I'm a whinger?
I would not worry about it.
It is basically a customer service number and everyone who has stayed at a Disney resort has one. Just having one is no more negative than having a customer service number at any other business.

A customer service number can be a place to keep notes - positive, negative or just information like what time of year they travel, how many are usually in their party, etc. - have you ever wondered how they know how old your children are? It's because you added that information once and it is in your file. So, not a negative.
It can also be used to track things like extras given to guests
- for example, my family did get a 'no strings attached' Fastpass once and I am sure that information is in a file somewhere - along with the reason we got it - a Disney bus we were on was sideswiped by a car.
No one was hurt, but all the sorting out and reporting took almost 2 hours. They collected information from all of us on the bus, including our names and where we were staying. As compensation for that, everyone on the bus was given a 'no strings attached Fastpass.'
Individual CMs scanning your Magicband won't usually need that information or have access to it.

In terms of DAS, each DAS card has a number on it. Having a number allows them to link to a file on their computer so the DAS can be re-issued the next time you come without recollecting all the information. So, again, not necessarily a negative thing.
They seems to be misinformed there is not "Magic List" it is called a "Magic File" any guest who has stayed on property or lodged a formal complaint with Guest Relations has one. Also I believe now all DAS users have a magic file. I don't know the full scale of them since I don't work in guest relations or concierge but they are like notes.

I know most magic files are things like guest prefers a room close to elevators, guest visited x restaurant and informed management they did not have good service. Manager responded by giving y to guest.

It is mostly used to track abuse by people who complain about their service to get free things but form my understanding it is also how they track that you were already told yes for a DAS and can have one reissued with out having to go through the process all over again.
This is my understanding about Magic Files from talking to Guest Relations CMs - again, just having one is not negative and even having in your file that you were given compensation after a complaint is not a negative thing.
Valid complaints and compensation are not an issue.
I think the magic list is the group of people that called Disney and were put into the system with a file number that gave them these additional FP. It only lasted about 2 months during the introductory phase of the DAS.

I'll assume they're saying it is a magic list but in reality it's not different than the files they create in person. Some people were getting the additional FP and some were not so I think they expected that you needed to be on some list.
This!:thumbsup2

From things I read on social media and blogs, this is what it sounds like the people who filed the lawsuit thought.
But, to quote the character Inigo Montoya from the movie Princess Bride,
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

From talking to Disney park Guest Relations CMs (mostly in trying to collect correct information for the DAS threads located near the top of this board), Disney understood that some guests would have difficulty adapting from GAC to DAS. This was especially true of frequent visitors who were using GACs each visit.
My understanding was that giving some additional Fastpasses was meant to be a temporary 'bridge' to help guests as they learned how to use the DAS.

The first official DAS information Disney put on their Disney Blog included a phone number to contact for more information.
Very quickly, people on blogs and Facebook started posting that phone number, plus some other unpublished phone numbers, along with information about names of CMs they felt were 'helpful' (i.e. gave them Fastpasses) or 'unhelpful' (explained how DAS worked and suggested trying it), exactly what to say to get extra Fastpasses (which many of those guests called 'DAS accommodations') and how to get the maximum number of 'accommodations'.
From what some of those guests wrote on social media and what is in the lawsuit, they thought the "Magic List" was a special list of guests with DAS who were approved to get 'accommodations'. They expected they had to be on the "Magic List" to get these 'DAS accommodations' and would get that number of Fastpases forever for every visit; the number some expected each visit was huge because (at least to me), it sounded like they were trying to replicate what they were doing with GACs.
I also read things that showed there was misunderstanding about what 'no strings Fastpasses' are - I've seen more than one place where someone complained when they saw someone who was not disabled using 'DAS accommodations'.

Disney's current published fact sheet information about DAS includes a phone number for general information, but makes it clear on every page that requests for DAS will not be handled by phone or mail and must be made in person at a theme park Guest Relations.
 
Oh no I don't like the sound of this list! We are planning on asking for DAS as I have Myasthenia Gravis and if will struggle with the lines - there is a good chance I will need to leave the lines to manage seizures or go to first aid. When the CM scans my magic band will they see that we have comped extra fast passes as I had problems with my booking (I didn't complain a lovely customer service lady called after it was fixed and offered them to us). I also once complained that I was left without food at a pre-paid event because the manager went to get the allergy binder and never came back then none of the cast members in the area could find him! Will they scan my band and think I'm a whinger?

I wouldn't even begin to worry about it. You're number will show you have a DAS for XYZ needs. It'll show you're extra FP and why you got them.

None of the regular park CMs will see your file and anyone that does isn't going to judge you for it. If your file showed that every trip you came down and complained multiple times about the same thing to get your tickets comped, you'd be the person it's intended for. Just look at it as a human resources file. Disney needs a record of their interactions with guest or they'd have people calling up saying someone promised them things, or gave a refund they didn't receive, etc with no way of knowing if it's accurate.
 
{FLAMEPROOF CAPE FROM DRAWER TO SHOULDERS}

1) ADA and Disney DAS allow for access, not excess!
2) Allowing people to ride multiple times with little wait time is excess.
3) And, vastly unfair to other paying guests.
4) Yes, WDW should/must make certain that disabled folks can ride.
5) But, to shun/cheat/slight other guests by allowing rapid re-rides is not right.
6) Let us hope that this suit goes nowhere and loses at summary judgment or in actual court.
7) Am getting really tired of greedy & selfish people !

{FLAMEPROOF SUIT BACK TO STORAGE}


No flame suit needed. I completely agree with this. I have two boys with severe ASD and am embarrassed by this lawsuit and also by some of the other responses I see people in the ASD community putting all over facebook.
 
Jenheartsdisney said:
Oh no I don't like the sound of this list!

We are planning on asking for DAS as I have Myasthenia Gravis and if will struggle with the lines - there is a good chance I will need to leave the lines to manage seizures or go to first aid.

When the CM scans my magic band will they see that we have comped extra fast passes as I had problems with my booking (I didn't complain a lovely customer service lady called after it was fixed and offered them to us). I also once complained that I was left without food at a pre-paid event because the manager went to get the allergy binder and never came back then none of the cast members in the area could find him!

Will they scan my band and think I'm a whinger?


No need to worry. The only way to see your magic file is if you are in guest relations. No one else sees them.
 
I think this whole debacle is ridiculous. There was no need for this lawsuit.

But if you dare to disagree with them, they're quick to tell you how you don't understand and should walk a mile in their shoes, lol. I do understand. And I have special needs. And I feel that the new DAS is fine and that they're just moaning because their so called need to ride stuff over and over again is a unfair accommodation.
 
I've never argued that unlimited rides should be the accommodation; I do argue that that saying a recognized feature of a disability does not exist because nuerotyical' folks experience something vaguely similar is uninformed at the least and bigoted at the worst. Notice that that always leads to your point.... people with cognitive and developmental delays should just stay home.

Why is it that if one accommodation will not work, not possible alternative other than stay home can be created?

I already posted that I have one of the "issues" that you mentioned in a previous post... and I don't think that Disney has to accommodate the idea of someone riding over and over again. I also don't think that means that people will these issues should have to stay home. They just shouldn't expect a need such as this to be accommodated beyond equal access. We should never get greater access because that is just not fair.
 
My DD9 has autism and wants to repeat rides as well. No, I don't think she should be given that privilege even though it means physically dragging her off the ride. Using the same logic as those filing suit I should sue because DS8 is unable to access most attractions because he can't transfer from his wheelchair.
 
One of my many issues is OCD I would love to repeat rides because my OCD likes even numbers so riding twice would be a good thing. I don't even ask even when we had the GAC we would not go on a ride twice in a row
 
And no one is telling anyone they can't ride the same ride over and over again. But they are saying that you must exit after riding and get back in the line to ride again. That is simply fair and polite to others who are also waiting to ride the ride. I'm always very surprised at people who expect their child to ride repeatedly without getting off the ride and getting back in line. They see other people waiting to ride, yet they don't care about other people waiting and insist their child receive special treatment. It's very entitled behavior. I'm not being heartless toward special needs children I just feel that their parents should not encourage to advocate for their child to be allowed to cut lines or skip ahead of others or keep riding the same thing while others are waiting. Special needs or not, it's just bad manners.
 
I agree with the pp whole heartedly. You still need to wait Your fair turn. If that can't be in the line, so be it, but you still need to wait.

Now some CMS will occasionally offer to let you ride a second time without getting off or waiting, but that should be considered pixie dust and you shouldn't ask for it, unless you can see that there is either no line or only a handful of people in line, then I think its ok for anyone to ask to do so.
 
Some may have noticed that the numbered paragraphs in Disney's answer don't correspond to all the numbered paragraphs in the complaint posted on the law firm's web site.

The court required the parents' counsel to refile the complaint because they originally filed it electronically, not manually, and court rules don't permit a complaint to be electronically filed when one or more minors are plaintiffs. Guardians have to be appointed, I suppose, before a complaint can be filed.

In any even, for those who want it, I've put a copy of the refiled complaint on a public share drive.
 
Some may have noticed that the numbered paragraphs in Disney's answer don't correspond to all the numbered paragraphs in the complaint posted on the law firm's web site.

The court required the parents' counsel to refile the complaint because they originally filed it electronically, not manually, and court rules don't permit a complaint to be electronically filed when one or more minors are plaintiffs. Guardians have to be appointed, I suppose, before a complaint can be filed.

In any even, for those who want it, I've put a copy of the refiled complaint on a public share drive.
Thank you for that information, Jack.
I did notice that the numbers didn't correspond, so that is helpful.
 
Some may have noticed that the numbered paragraphs in Disney's answer don't correspond to all the numbered paragraphs in the complaint posted on the law firm's web site. The court required the parents' counsel to refile the complaint because they originally filed it electronically, not manually, and court rules don't permit a complaint to be electronically filed when one or more minors are plaintiffs. Guardians have to be appointed, I suppose, before a complaint can be filed. In any even, for those who want it, I've put a copy of the refiled complaint on a public share drive.

Thanks for the file. I wonder why the plaintiffs council wouldn't be aware of that.
 

What the heck do the parents want? Shouldn't the lawsuit filing make that clear? Most of us seem to think they wanted front of line access and repeat rides, yet the blogger ends with . . .

I have to say that it is a little hard for me to define the exact dispute here. Clearly, the parents do not like DAS, alleging that Disney imposed DAS on them without considering their individual needs. They also, clearly, want GAC back, at least GAC as it was apparently applied to them. Disney, on the other hand, goes to some length to deny DAS changed Disney’s practice of working “individually with guests with disabilities to provide assistance that is responsive to their circumstances” and given the strong statements about GAC abuse, it doesn’t seem as if Disney is going to return to that program willingly.

I can’t help but think that, if the parties could get past the sensationalized allegations and hurt feelings caused when Disney implemented DAS, they might come to an understanding that could resolve the parent’s concerns. Disney says it has no obligation to provide “unlimited, repeated, immediate access to its rides and attractions” (and I doubt a court would order Disney to do so) but it isn’t clear this is what the parents wants. After all, there is no dispute that Disney has a long history of “admirably accommodating” (as the parents allege) guests with cognitive impairments.
 
What the heck do the parents want? Shouldn't the lawsuit filing make that clear? Most of us seem to think they wanted front of line access and repeat rides, yet the blogger ends with . . .
Reading each parent's part of the lawsuit, they go into various combinations of these (simplified by me) as things they needed which were provided by GAC, but not provided by DAS:
- can't wait
- can't approach an attraction and not ride
- will exhibit a meltdown if not allowed to go on the attraction right away
- needs to ride multiple times in a row
- if given a return time, may change his mind and need to ride something else right away

Again simplified by me, each person's part says not providing those things was discriminatory and then goes on to propose the remedy (quote from one of the points, but they are all pretty much the same):

"Enjoining Defendant to cease the practices which are causing discrimination against Plaintiff on account of AL.' s disability; and Enjoining Defendant to reasonably modify its policies, practices, and procedures to afford Plaintiff with an opportunity to experience Disney's goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations; and Establishing Court-approved remedia"

To me, that certainly looks like what they want is to change the things they think were discriminatory so that the child:
- can ride without waiting
- approach an attraction and ride
- avoid a meltdown by being allowed to go on the attraction right away
- ride multiple times in a row
- if change his mind, be able to ride something else right away

So, yes. I do think they are still wanting front of the line access and being able to loop at will. They are just not saying it directly, but putting everything together, it sounds very much like that is what they want.
 
I'm guessing that as part of discovery, Disney will also be interested in the experiences of plaintiffs that hadn't gone at the time of the suit but have gone since.
 

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