Point renters

[_auroraborealis_]

Actually, my contract warned me. "Subject to availability."

 

[Deb & Bill]

I wonder what would happen if the state of Florida decided to sue the brokers for failing to pay taxes to the state. Could that happen?

 

[crisi]

I wonder what would happen if the state of Florida decided to sue the brokers for failing to pay taxes to the state. Could that happen?

They are acting as a middleman and I think my contract stated I was responsible for taxes. So my guess is that they'd have to sue individual owners, and that isn't likely to happen.

 

[littlestar]

As a DVC owner, at the seven month window if I want a non-home resort, I book right when that window opens. I log on early and grab what I need for my family. I would imagine most renters are not quite that motivated - I doubt most are up at the crack of dawn booking something for a stranger.

 

[Sandisw]

As others have mentioned, when a room is booked, an owner is doing it. The flexibility of DVC has always been the ability to allow other people, who are not the owners, use a reservation. To somehow try to change the rules that only an owner can stay in the room would completely change the product. Yes, I do agree that the more that people find out that DVC owners can rent them a reservation for cheaper than going direct through Disney, the more likely you will have an owner, who may not be able to use their points that year, book a room ahead of time, which will cut down on the availability for others at 7 months. But the alternative would be to force DVC to become a timeshare in which only owners could stay, or one in which every change is a fee or a re-booking and personally, I see those as much bigger drawbacks. I own where I like to stay, bought VGF so I could book studios at 11 months, even for times I am not 100% sure I am going to be going, on the off chance I decide to definitely go.

 

[DebbieB]

I wonder what would happen if the state of Florida decided to sue the brokers for failing to pay taxes to the state. Could that happen?

The brokers work like travel agents, they only pay taxes on their commission. That would be like going after a travel agent because Disney didn't turn over the room tax.

 

[DougEMG]

What makes anyone think it is renters that is causing the problem at 7 months. Most renters that I've dealt with are not really aware of the 7 month rule and are usually trying to book much shorter in advance. It is much more likely that it is a DVC owner booking for themselves with their finger hovering over the keyboard waiting for that 7 month window to open.

Face it, more and more new members are being added every year, that alone is going to make it more difficult to book those popular rooms at 7 months. After all how many new high demand rooms are being added. It isn't like there are more value AKV rooms or BWV standard rooms then there were 10 years ago.

If I was buying today, I would definitely be buying at the resort I wanted to stay at most of the time.

 

[Dean]

What makes anyone think it is renters that is causing the problem at 7 months. Most renters that I've dealt with are not really aware of the 7 month rule and are usually trying to book much shorter in advance. It is much more likely that it is a DVC owner booking for themselves with their finger hovering over the keyboard waiting for that 7 month window to open.

Face it, more and more new members are being added every year, that alone is going to make it more difficult to book those popular rooms at 7 months. After all how many new high demand rooms are being added. It isn't like there are more value AKV rooms or BWV standard rooms then there were 10 years ago.

If I was buying today, I would definitely be buying at the resort I wanted to stay at most of the time.

I think it's just wanting to blame someone else rather than understanding and admitting the system. It's like blaming renters for damages, there's no evidence that's the case and I have anecdotal evidence to the contrary. Even for the largest points owner, DVC is essentially a rental car. In the old fixed unit system, maybe, but not in this type of system.

 

[CarolMN]

I don't blame either the owners who rent or those who rent DVC points to save money on their stays. That's the system. I get it. Always have.

Nevertheless, IMO, there are increasing numbers of non-DVC owners who are aware of the booking requirements and willing to commit far enough in advance to get what they want, where they want & when they want for a Disney vacation. It's having an impact on availability at 7 months. The rental brokers have more demand than they can meet for the home resort booking priority for several DVC resorts.

Is that the only reason for increasing difficulties at 7 months? Of course not!
Is it the primary reason? Very much doubt it.

But it's definitely there and IMO, will continue to be a factor - one that will probably increase in impact. My opinion. OK with me if you don't share it.

The point remains & is even more important than ever: BUY WHERE YOU WANT TO STAY and use your home resort priority window.

 

[tjkraz]

Looks like we will agree to disagree on the renting of points. I do appreciate your feed back. In the future if you're having problems booking after the 7 month window please remember.......ThunderMountain warned you.

I think most of us realize that every room rented is a room some card-carrying member (or their family) won't be able to use personally.

Even if Disney could legally put some restrictions in place, what form are you proposing and how would they ever be enforced? What's to keep me from renting my points--thru a third party broker or not--and just telling DVC: "Yeah, this trip is for my Uncle Bob so I'm OK to book at 7 months"

 

[Dean]

I think most of us realize that every room rented is a room some card-carrying member (or their family) won't be able to use personally.

Even if Disney could legally put some restrictions in place, what form are you proposing and how would they ever be enforced? What's to keep me from renting my points--thru a third party broker or not--and just telling DVC: "Yeah, this trip is for my Uncle Bob so I'm OK to book at 7 months"

The reverse is true as well, every room booked is being used by the owner in some way except for breakage inventory. It might be for personal use, family, rental, exchange with RCI or traded for a cruise.

 

[LAX]

IMHO, it's moot to try to point a finger at anyone for experiencing difficulty in booking at the 7-month window. If anyone deserve blame, it would be oneself for not understanding the system well enough at the time of purchase and choosing a home resort that is further down the preferred list. Like someone mentioned earlier, that's how the system work. While renters may have some negative impact on the 7-month availability, one needs not to worry about it if the preferred resort can be booked between 7 and 11 months. I understand one of the features of DVC is the flexibility to try out other resorts, but the key word is flexibility. Perhaps flexibility needs to go both ways, so non-home resort owners need to be flexible, too. I think anyone without home resort advantage trying to book a week in a standard studio at VGF for December is just a prime set up for frustration.

LAX

 

[Dean]

IMHO, it's moot to try to point a finger at anyone for experiencing difficulty in booking at the 7-month window. If anyone deserve blame, it would be oneself for not understanding the system well enough at the time of purchase and choosing a home resort that is further down the preferred list. Like someone mentioned earlier, that's how the system work. While renters may have some negative impact on the 7-month availability, one needs not to worry about it if the preferred resort can be booked between 7 and 11 months. I understand one of the features of DVC is the flexibility to try out other resorts, but the key word is flexibility. Perhaps flexibility needs to go both ways, so non-home resort owners need to be flexible, too. I think anyone without home resort advantage trying to book a week in a standard studio at VGF for December is just a prime set up for frustration.

LAX

To a degree, my view isn't pointing blame but realizing the reasons for the final result so I can understand my options and approaches. Certainly if one buys low and expects to trade up, they should understand the risks, plan ahead and learn the wait list. While I know most here don't look at it this way, we basically own a single resort and are trying to exchange to a different resort, not really any different than exchanging through II or RCI in principle. The other side of this is that even owning a given resort and reserving at 11 months isn't guarantee of success but many here post as if it is.

 

[DVC_Dad_Canada]

Mathematically, the difficulty in booking a specific resort at the 7 month window has little to do with renters, and much more to do with more DVC resorts being added annually. The more overall points and owners, the less likely you are to get your specific request. You have a choice of more DVC resorts than in the past, but those extra owners also have a chance you want to stay exactly where you want to stay at the exact same time.

 

[tjkraz]

Mathematically, the difficulty in booking a specific resort at the 7 month window has little to do with renters, and much more to do with more DVC resorts being added annually. The more overall points and owners, the less likely you are to get your specific request. You have a choice of more DVC resorts than in the past, but those extra owners also have a chance you want to stay exactly where you want to stay at the exact same time.

Depends on how a new resort alters overall demand. When the Grand Floridian was added, yes there were ultimately more owners in the program potentially vying for rooms at Beach Club, Boardwalk and others. However, some of the owners people who would have previously wanted to stay at BCV or BWV suddenly found themselves drawn to GF.

Did overall demand for BCV (or any other resort) increase (VGF owners trying to book there) or decrease (demand reduced as VGF is added as a new 7 month destination for all)? It's impossible for us to gauge the net impact.

The system was probably as unbalanced as it's ever been around 2010 with he massive build out at SSR followed by AKV. Additions of BLT, VGF and Poly can only have helped relieve pressure from the 2 or 3 resorts which topped many owners' preference lists.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I suspect resales of VB and HHI aren't helping. Because of when those resorts went to market, I don't think all the buyers were thinking "yay cheap points I will use them all on campus always!!!" because that simply wasn't a thought one could reasonably have. One might think you'd be able to book OKW or BWV occasionally with them.

But now those points are being sold in resale, and I think we've all seen people who pounce on the idea of those being cheap points, then they'll somehow book VGF, which: hah, not often.

It's hard to say what effect people who bought Poly but who don't want studios are having on the 7-month system. I suspect it's neutral, simply because their attempts to book elsewhere at 7 months leaves Poly studios for Saratoga owners and etc.

 

[lisaviolet]

The rental market, becoming more successful over the last couple of years, has definitely begun to affect DVC studio availability. The vast majority of renters want the lowest buy in and most ask for studios. As many are simply trying to upgrade their resort level or save on an equivalent CRO regular room choice. I would honestly guess that it is somewhere close to 90% studio requests to private owners or rental companies.

Owners, for their own vacation, book more varied and balanced options. Obviously studios are popular but certainly not as focused there as the rental market.

No blame though. It is what it is. But that is where the impact will be over the coming years, in my opinion.

 

[kristenrice]

I suspect resales of VB and HHI aren't helping. Because of when those resorts went to market, I don't think all the buyers were thinking "yay cheap points I will use them all on campus always!!!" because that simply wasn't a thought one could reasonably have. One might think you'd be able to book OKW or BWV occasionally with them.

But now those points are being sold in resale, and I think we've all seen people who pounce on the idea of those being cheap points, then they'll somehow book VGF, which: hah, not often.

My hope is that people who bought HHI on the cheap and realize that they can't use up those points at WDW will start selling off their HHI points We are here now and my anti-Disney DH, who has already stated that he is not going back to WDW, is actually interested in acquiring more points here at HHI so that we can go more often than every three years. We already assumed when we bought our meager 50 points that the first week of April in a 1BR will be nearly impossible at 7 months out. Because we drive down from Michigan, we only stay Sun-Thur anyways so no need for the expensive weekend nights. I'm going to start saving up for another 25-50 points direct, but I will definitely be keeping my eyes peeled for a resale contract too. We don't want to use the points at WDW....we WANT to use them here at HHI and it is so annoying to see people buying up HHI points on the cheap with no intention of ever staying here.

 

[tjkraz]

I suspect resales of VB and HHI aren't helping. Because of when those resorts went to market, I don't think all the buyers were thinking "yay cheap points I will use them all on campus always!!!" because that simply wasn't a thought one could reasonably have. One might think you'd be able to book OKW or BWV occasionally with them.

I would actually go the other way on that. Being that VB and HHI were the 2nd and 3rd DVC resorts, I think many people originally bought them with plans to use at WDW.

Today, those buyers have had 20 years to experience buyer's remorse. The program is much larger and I've seen many people express enough affection for either VB or HHI that it lead to a purchase at their preferred resort.

Sure they do still represent a cheap resale purchase, but the high dues would seemingly negate some of that.

Regardless, the two resorts combined are smaller than Bay Lake Tower, BoardWalk, AKV and several others. I don't see them causing much negative impact on the other resorts. Heck, in the last 5 years, we've made 4 visits combined to HHI and VB on points from other properties.

I would honestly guess that it is somewhere close to 90% studio requests to private owners or rental companies.

That seems a little aggressive. There are 110 Studios at Beach Club...133 at Bay Lake Tower...296 at Animal Kingdom Lodge. The rental market is brisk but I don't see it being anywhere close to filling 90% of those rooms on a recurring basis.

 

[Marionnette]

That seems a little aggressive. There are 110 Studios at Beach Club...133 at Bay Lake Tower...296 at Animal Kingdom Lodge. The rental market is brisk but I don't see it being anywhere close to filling 90% of those rooms on a recurring basis.

I may be wrong, but I interpreted @lisaviolet 's post to mean that 90% of rental requests are for studios, not that 90% of studio reservations are being held by renters.