Latest School Shooting

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I feel for you, I really do and you are right you shouldn’t have to feel this way.

Your school has a procedure in place don’t they? That’s where you go or what you do. Exactly what they tell you.

Don’t assume your principal doesn’t care. You don’t know everything that is going on with administration. It could be that the threat was found to be completely nothing to worry about.

And lastly, try not to think about this so much. I know it seems like there are so many shootings happen but just as a poster said upthread, statistically it’s not likely to happen. But if you and your friends are really this afraid, talk to a teacher or your school counselor about it and what is in place to protect you. You may discover that it would not be as easy to attack your school as you think it is.

When we had our bomb threat when I was in high school classes were as normal. I know sometimes they close the schools for the day or a delayed start but most probably don't result in much because the threat was not deemed credible. There's a lot that the average high school student isn't going to be privy too..nor should they honestly.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

This is an excellent - but chilling - read, with lots to think about, and some, what I think are helpful, suggestions at the end:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/deadly-dreams/

 

[robinb]

Today's shooting did not result in any deaths. Your previous post referenced today's shooting. What event are you referring to here that had deaths?

Does it matter if there were deaths? There is another entire school and community that now has PTSD from their children being shot.

 

[mister morrow]

Today's shooting did not result in any deaths. Your previous post referenced today's shooting. What event are you referring to here that had deaths?

what are you talking about lmao

i literally said parkland

 

[momz]

Does it matter if there were deaths? There is another entire school and community that now has PTSD from their children being shot.

what are you talking about lmao

i literally said parkland

I didn't mean to offend. I though I had missed something and maybe there was another shooting today. I was just asking for clarification. I was worried that there had been some deaths somewhere else.

 

[PollyannaMom]

This is an excellent - but chilling - read, with lots to think about, and some, what I think are helpful, suggestions at the end:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/deadly-dreams/

Thanks for the link. I do think it was an insightful article. This:

"Many of our insights have come from analyzing the violent fantasies of adolescent shooters. These imaginings take root in a desperate mind that yearns for recognition."

in particular struck me, and matches with this:

This is a multifaceted problem. There are many factors that play into WHY this is going on. I'm going to address one of them (my opinion may or may not apply to any specific scenario as I don't know any of the perpetrators). I think that parenting plays a major role here. We have a problem in our country of parents and children being disconnected from one another. We use technology as baby sitters for our little ones.

I think many kids today don't feel an authentic connection to other people. They may have dozens, or even hundreds of "friends" on social media, but no one they feel is really noticing them.


And this ties in too:

...kids are not taught to shake things off and move on. If someone calls you a dummy you don't need your mom to call the school and launch a bullying investigation and tell every teacher that they aren't supervising closely enough and get 5 treats from the store to help you get over it and talk about it ad nauseum for days to make sure your self esteem isn't damaged. Parents are so busy and self absorbed that children get attention from crying or reporting the wrongs that happened to them throughout the day rather than focusing on the 100's of positives...

Kids see their parents undermining authority and never learn respect. They have no joy because they don't learn true appreciation for what they have. They feel like someone will always back up their poor choices and believe them when they say untruths to get themselves out of trouble. As they get older this manifests as entitlement and combined with mental illness or instability can lead to the ultimate poor choice...

So many parents are jumping in to "rescue" their kids instead of helping them learn resilience (which takes a lot more time and focus). I think many (not all, of course) care more about looking like good parents than being good parents. - In some ways, though, I can't blame them for being confused about exactly what being good parents is nowadays, when technology changes so quickly that there are no precedents for many of the decisions they have to make.


I also read something the other day that I've heard before about the necessity of play (not structured, adult-directed activities, but spontaneous play) in helping kids learn self-regulation. For so many reasons (busy schedules, safety concerns, competition from other entertainment...) kids are playing less than they used to. They're not developing the self-regulation skills that translate into other areas of their lives, and I think it may be just one more piece (of many things added together) that makes a few eventually snap.

 

[texaslover]

Thanks for the link. I do think it was an insightful article. This:

"Many of our insights have come from analyzing the violent fantasies of adolescent shooters. These imaginings take root in a desperate mind that yearns for recognition."

in particular struck me, and matches with this:


I think many kids today don't feel an authentic connection to other people. They may have dozens, or even hundreds of "friends" on social media, but no one they feel is really noticing them.n


And this ties in too:


So many parents are jumping in to "rescue" their kids instead of helping them learn resilience (which takes a lot more time and focus). I think many (not all, of course) care more about looking like good parents than being good parents. - In some ways, though, I can't blame them for being confused about exactly what being good parents is nowadays, when technology changes so quickly that there are no precedents for many of the decisions they have to make.


I also read something the other day that I've heard before about the necessity of play (not structured, adult-directed activities, but spontaneous play) in helping kids learn self-regulation. For so many reasons (busy schedules, safety concerns, competition from other entertainment...) kids are playing less than they used to. They're not developing the self-regulation skills that translate into other areas of their lives, and I think it may be just one more piece (of many things added together) that makes a few eventually snap.

Agree on the play thing. Kids aren't allowed to work out their own issues anymore and aren't accountable for their actions toward their peers. I watch kids at recess daily and they will act like the biggest jerks toward their friends but the minute they are told to be quiet or go away they ******* Then they go home and tell their parents that their friend told them to shut up and the teachers did nothing about it and mom comes up and raises a stink. Kid stands behind mom with a big grin on his/her face, knowing exactly what happened. Kids need to be allowed to work out small issues without intervention and allowed to just play. Making up games and setting the rules and then kids seeing the consequences of breaking those rules in the actions of their peers is the way they really learn to function in a society. Having absolutely no consequences for any of their choices does not develop a moral compass or conscience.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Thanks for the link. I do think it was an insightful article. This:

"Many of our insights have come from analyzing the violent fantasies of adolescent shooters. These imaginings take root in a desperate mind that yearns for recognition."

in particular struck me, and matches with this:


I think many kids today don't feel an authentic connection to other people. They may have dozens, or even hundreds of "friends" on social media, but no one they feel is really noticing them.


And this ties in too:


So many parents are jumping in to "rescue" their kids instead of helping them learn resilience (which takes a lot more time and focus). I think many (not all, of course) care more about looking like good parents than being good parents. - In some ways, though, I can't blame them for being confused about exactly what being good parents is nowadays, when technology changes so quickly that there are no precedents for many of the decisions they have to make.


I also read something the other day that I've heard before about the necessity of play (not structured, adult-directed activities, but spontaneous play) in helping kids learn self-regulation. For so many reasons (busy schedules, safety concerns, competition from other entertainment...) kids are playing less than they used to. They're not developing the self-regulation skills that translate into other areas of their lives, and I think it may be just one more piece (of many things added together) that makes a few eventually snap.

Agree on the play thing. Kids aren't allowed to work out their own issues anymore and aren't accountable for their actions toward their peers. I watch kids at recess daily and they will act like the biggest jerks toward their friends but the minute they are told to be quiet or go away they ******* Then they go home and tell their parents that their friend told them to shut up and the teachers did nothing about it and mom comes up and raises a stink. Kid stands behind mom with a big grin on his/her face, knowing exactly what happened. Kids need to be allowed to work out small issues without intervention and allowed to just play. Making up games and setting the rules and then kids seeing the consequences of breaking those rules in the actions of their peers is the way they really learn to function in a society. Having absolutely no consequences for any of their choices does not develop a moral compass or conscience.

I don't see this "play thing" at all in my kids' and their friends. Never saw a kid with a big grin watching their friend get in trouble. That's so odd.

As for not relating to other kids - my kids were always in child care/before and after school programs and have had long lasting friendships with couple close friends. I know of no one that fits your description at all.

And like I pointed out before even if this play issue had to do with the school shootings why does it not happen in Canada, UK, Australa?
Kids are parented and play the same way in Manitoba as they do in North Dakota.

If you're going to blame school shootings on how kids play why not note that perhaps its rooted in the lack of proper maternity leave in the USA. Only 1st world nation with no proper mat leave laws. Maybe kids are not bonding with parents. Or being raised by stressed out parents that have to choose between income and their children after a few weeks of giving birth. If you're throwing out wild theories this may be one to look at.

 

[CdnCarrie]

It's Friday. Time for another school shoot


It's Friday. Time for another school shooting.

This is a multifaceted problem. There are many factors that play into WHY this is going on. I'm going to address one of them (my opinion may or may not apply to any specific scenario as I don't know any of the perpetrators). I think that parenting plays a major role here. We have a problem in our country of parents and children being disconnected from one another. We use technology as baby sitters for our little ones. We allow tweens and younger to have their own social media accounts. We put no restrictions on internet access for our teenagers. We also allow ourselves (the parents) these indulgences. But, this is not the only issue pulling us apart.

Our kids are over scheduled. We taxi them from one activity to another with our only time together being the time spent in the car. Over time, our kids develop the impression that the way to please the parents is to be successful in activity after activity.

I also think that some parents spend more time being their child's friend than being the parent. This has created a generation of over-indulged kids who cannot deal with disappointment. In some cases, kids have rarely, if ever, been told no or had their behavior corrected.

But, I may be biased. I have 4 nephews who are all young adults ages 21-26. They have been raised with every advantage possible in our culture. of the 4, only one of them is positively contributing to society. The other 3 live at home with their parents (different parents). Two of them have "jobs" but are working fast food less than 20 hours a week. They all spend their time sitting on their duffs, playing video games all night, then sleeping all day. They indulge in alcohol, weed and who know what else. I don't think any of the 3 could pass a drug test, even if they ever had the desire to better themselves. 2 of them have failed out of college, the other never had the gumption to try. These are men who were never required to lift a finger at home, not even so much as to feed the pets, pick up their own dirty laundry, make their beds, cook a meal for themselves, or even get themselves up and fed before school...hired help for all the household tasks. Plus, they always have had every toy or electronic available as soon as it was released. To this day, they don't have to pay their own way for anything. Any money they earn is spent on drugs and alcohol. While their parents continue to provide for them.

Anyway, after that long story, my nephews did not get their parents love and attention (they still don't). What they got was their parents money. And I think there is a lot of this kind of problem in the wealthy communities that are now being overrun with drugs and violence.

So none of your siblings (in laws) love their kids? How horrible.

 

[luvsJack]

I don't see this "play thing" at all in my kids' and their friends. Never saw a kid with a big grin watching their friend get in trouble. That's so odd.

As for not relating to other kids - my kids were always in child care/before and after school programs and have had long lasting friendships with couple close friends. I know of no one that fits your description at all.

And like I pointed out before even if this play issue had to do with the school shootings why does it not happen in Canada, UK, Australa?
Kids are parented and play the same way in Manitoba as they do in North Dakota.

If you're going to blame school shootings on how kids play why not note that perhaps its rooted in the lack of proper maternity leave in the USA. Only 1st world nation with no proper mat leave laws. Maybe kids are not bonding with parents. Or being raised by stressed out parents that have to choose between income and their children after a few weeks of giving birth. If you're throwing out wild theories this may be one to look at.

Perhaps it is. No one is blaming any one thing for school shootings. They are discussing things that could be contributing to the problem. Differences I. How kids are growing up is not a wild theory. It very well could be a contributing factor.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Perhaps it is. No one is blaming any one thing for school shootings. They are discussing things that could be contributing to the problem. Differences I. How kids are growing up is not a wild theory. It very well could be a contributing factor.

Again i ask why such violence is not happening elsewhere as it does the USA. We parent our children the same and the play the same video games and watch the same movies.

Kids grow the same in Manitoba as they do 3 hours away in Minnesota.

 

[PollyannaMom]

If you're going to blame school shootings on how kids play why not note that perhaps its rooted in the lack of proper maternity leave in the USA. Only 1st world nation with no proper mat leave laws. Maybe kids are not bonding with parents. Or being raised by stressed out parents that have to choose between income and their children after a few weeks of giving birth. If you're throwing out wild theories this may be one to look at.

I actually don't think that's a "wild theory" either. I'd definitely put it on the list of things to look into!

Just because we're tossing around a lot of ideas, doesn't mean we believe any of those are the sole reason for school shootings - or even the biggest reason. I'm actually convinced that there are many, many contributing factors.

I do personally think the change in play is one of them, and I disagree slightly with this:

Again i ask why such violence is not happening elsewhere as it does the USA. We parent our children the same and the play the same video games and watch the same movies.

Kids grow the same in Manitoba as they do 3 hours away in Minnesota.

"The North American neighbors part ways over individualism. Nearly three-in-five Americans (58%) believe that freedom to pursue their life’s goals is more important than guaranteeing that no one is in need. Only 43% of Canadians and even fewer Europeans agree.

And Canadians are much greener than Americans. Two-in-five Canadians (44%) believe the environment is a global threat, compared with only one-in-five (23%) Americans. Further, respondents in Canada say that protecting the environment should be given priority even if it results in a loss of jobs, something Americans favor much less.

Canadians are also more internationalist than Americans. For instance, even before the U.N. debate on the Iraq resolution, 28% of Canadians saw the United Nations as “very good” for their country in 2002. Only 18% of Americans agreed. In addition, Canadians almost universally think global trade is a good thing for their country (86%), while Americans are slightly more skeptical, with 78% supporting trade. Moreover, Canadians and Western Europeans are more likely than Americans to say they like the availability of international products, the flow of popular culture across national borders, and faster international communication and greater trade.

Finally, Canadian social and religious values are much closer to those held by Europeans than by Americans. Nearly three in five Americans (58%) say a person has to believe in God to be moral. Only 30% of Canadians and 23% of Western Europeans agree. Publics of Canada (69%) and Western Europe (77%) also are more accepting of homosexuality than Americans are (51%). As for the role of women, only 26% of Canadians and 19% of Europeans say the husband should be the sole provider for the family, while the wife takes care of the home and children; 37% of Americans take that traditional view." ....... source - http://www.pewglobal.org/2004/01/14/americans-and-canadians/


I think individualism is a "core value" American kids are raised with, and, while certainly good on some levels, it can contribute to an "it's all about me" attitude when taken too far - which I think unfortunately happens more often here than there.

 

[Domo]

Gun crime is the result of multiple factors. I'm willing to bet that the perpetrators are psychologically unfounded, exposed to weapons, maybe exposed to religious ideology, maybe exposed to images or footage of violence, has easy access to weapons... the list goes on...

 

[CdnCarrie]

Iactually don't think that's a "wild theory" either. I'd definitely put it on the list of things to look into!

Just because we're tossing around a lot of ideas, doesn't mean we believe any of those are the sole reason for school shootings - or even the biggest reason. I'm actually convinced that there are many, many contributing factors.

I do personally think the change in play is one of them, and I disagree slightly with this:



"The North American neighbors part ways over individualism. Nearly three-in-five Americans (58%) believe that freedom to pursue their life’s goals is more important than guaranteeing that no one is in need. Only 43% of Canadians and even fewer Europeans agree.

And Canadians are much greener than Americans. Two-in-five Canadians (44%) believe the environment is a global threat, compared with only one-in-five (23%) Americans. Further, respondents in Canada say that protecting the environment should be given priority even if it results in a loss of jobs, something Americans favor much less.

Canadians are also more internationalist than Americans. For instance, even before the U.N. debate on the Iraq resolution, 28% of Canadians saw the United Nations as “very good” for their country in 2002. Only 18% of Americans agreed. In addition, Canadians almost universally think global trade is a good thing for their country (86%), while Americans are slightly more skeptical, with 78% supporting trade. Moreover, Canadians and Western Europeans are more likely than Americans to say they like the availability of international products, the flow of popular culture across national borders, and faster international communication and greater trade.

Finally, Canadian social and religious values are much closer to those held by Europeans than by Americans. Nearly three in five Americans (58%) say a person has to believe in God to be moral. Only 30% of Canadians and 23% of Western Europeans agree. Publics of Canada (69%) and Western Europe (77%) also are more accepting of homosexuality than Americans are (51%). As for the role of women, only 26% of Canadians and 19% of Europeans say the husband should be the sole provider for the family, while the wife takes care of the home and children; 37% of Americans take that traditional view." ....... source - http://www.pewglobal.org/2004/01/14/americans-and-canadians/


I think individualism is a "core value" American kids are raised with, and, while certainly good on some levels, it can contribute to an "it's all about me" attitude when taken too far - which I think unfortunately happens more often here than there.

I do agree with the individualism statement. It's probably why you do not have universal health care or maternity leave.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Gun crime is the result of multiple factors. I'm willing to bet that the perpetrators are psychologically unfounded, exposed to weapons, maybe exposed to religious ideology, maybe exposed to images or footage of violence, has easy access to weapons... the list goes on...

Or turf/gang wars, or domestic violence, etc.

The thing is while I agree with some things being talked about it's not a one-size-fits-all rationale. It may be part of the puzzle for one aspect of gun-related incidents but not part of the puzzle on another aspect.

As an example being part of a gang may be more related to area one is living in, support systems available and availability to guns (which are not 100% legally obtained) but not necessarily related to one's mental health or the entitlement spoken about earlier.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Or turf/gang wars, or domestic violence, etc.

The thing is while I agree with some things being talked about it's not a one-size-fits-all rationale. It may be part of the puzzle for one aspect of gun-related incidents but not part of the puzzle on another aspect.

As an example being part of a gang may be more related to area one is living in, support systems available and availability to guns (which are not 100% legally obtained) but not necessarily related to one's mental health or the entitlement spoken about earlier.

But the question being discussed here is specifically school shootings and why are they so prevalent in one country and not others.

I don't think play structure and video games play a huge role. Parenting probably comes into play but is different to each scenario.
The ingrained gun culture is probably one of the leading factors along with mental illness.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But the question being discussed here is specifically school shootings and why are they so prevalent in one country and not others.

I don't think play structure and video games play a huge role. Parenting probably comes into play but is different to each scenario.
The ingrained gun culture is probably one of the leading factors along with mental illness.

The entire thread has encompassed many different topics.

I'm failing to see what issue you're taking with my comment which clearly is stating factors involved in one type of gun-related incident doesn't translate to other types.

 

[Antaniasmom]

Today I had my DD and friend at the pool..we were by ourselves. 2 teenage boys came in, were to themselves for a little bit and then approached me, asked how old my kid was, where we were from..the subject of school shootings came up very quickly from these boys. One said his mom is former military and wants to send him to school with a Kevlar vest under his hoodie. The other boy said he cannot believe this keeps happening and says he always feels on edge, that any moment he may need to run for his life. He also said the other day at school they had a fire drill and a friend tugged him back by the shirt and said "Wait..." It was the first time I've gotten to speak to high school students about the subject and it was so very depressing to me the way they spoke about it and what their fears are. I talk to my DD12 about it and believe me she doesn't want to but I have to make sure she knows what to do if this should happen in her school. I really feel so very bad for these kids, we didn't deal with this growing up....why do they have to??? It was all I could do to hold back tears behind my sunglasses...

 

[alldiz]

Ok I am so disgusted by this issue it’s ridiculous.
We officially live in a country where the lobbyists are running the show!!!!

The overwhelming majority in this country do not see a reason for the average joe to have an assault weapon that shoots more shots than the average police officer will show up with.

Until we as a nation are willing to make laws about campaign finance nothing will ever change!
Peace
Kerri

 

[Domo]

Or turf/gang wars, or domestic violence, etc.

Interesting thing, that.

I read some research that said that in some areas of America that has more prevalent gun ownership, youths possess firearms because everyone else owns firearms. It's not just a status thing, it's a safety thing. Sort of like a self-fulfilling prophecy I guess.