Latest School Shooting

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Interesting thing, that.

I read some research that said that in some areas of America that has more prevalent gun ownership, youths possess firearms because everyone else owns firearms. It's not just a status thing, it's a safety thing. Sort of like a self-fulfilling prophecy I guess.

I'm sure that's the case in some areas. How prevalent that reasoning is I'm not sure.

 

[Domo]

I'm sure that's the case in some areas. How prevalent that reasoning is I'm not sure.

I'm sure it applies to more than just guns. In the past, during the Troubles in Ireland, the mob mentality of the forces on the border was so violent it applied to knives AND guns

 

[PollyannaMom]

Today I had my DD and friend at the pool..we were by ourselves. 2 teenage boys came in, were to themselves for a little bit and then approached me, asked how old my kid was, where we were from..the subject of school shootings came up very quickly from these boys. One said his mom is former military and wants to send him to school with a Kevlar vest under his hoodie. The other boy said he cannot believe this keeps happening and says he always feels on edge, that any moment he may need to run for his life. He also said the other day at school they had a fire drill and a friend tugged him back by the shirt and said "Wait..." It was the first time I've gotten to speak to high school students about the subject and it was so very depressing to me the way they spoke about it and what their fears are. I talk to my DD12 about it and believe me she doesn't want to but I have to make sure she knows what to do if this should happen in her school. I really feel so very bad for these kids, we didn't deal with this growing up....why do they have to??? It was all I could do to hold back tears behind my sunglasses...

I couldn't bring myself to "like" your post, but I'm right there with you on the feelings! I guess my generation worried about nuclear war, but it was so much less personal. - There wasn't any "OK, where will I hide if happens in this room?" because we figured the whole planet would just be gone, so we mostly put it out of our minds.

 

[texaslover]

I don't see this "play thing" at all in my kids' and their friends. Never saw a kid with a big grin watching their friend get in trouble. That's so odd.

As for not relating to other kids - my kids were always in child care/before and after school programs and have had long lasting friendships with couple close friends. I know of no one that fits your description at all.

And like I pointed out before even if this play issue had to do with the school shootings why does it not happen in Canada, UK, Australa?
Kids are parented and play the same way in Manitoba as they do in North Dakota.

If you're going to blame school shootings on how kids play why not note that perhaps its rooted in the lack of proper maternity leave in the USA. Only 1st world nation with no proper mat leave laws. Maybe kids are not bonding with parents. Or being raised by stressed out parents that have to choose between income and their children after a few weeks of giving birth. If you're throwing out wild theories this may be one to look at.

The bolded is not what I said but I have seen that as well. I said the child was grinning because the parent was yelling at the teacher in front of him/her about something that did not actually happen at all. However, I do daily see kids tattle on their friends for small things and be happy if they get a consequence but then expect that friend to continue to play with them and treat them kindly. If this has never happened with the children in Canada that you know then there probably is a true difference in the way children are being raised and what's expected of them in your country.

Not all, but most kids that I teach expect everyone to behave exactly as they want them to all the time no matter how they act. I believe part of this is because parents do not ever show their kids disappointment or anger at their actions. Believe me, my son knew when I wasn't happy or was disappointed with his choices and I think that did help him set his moral compass straight and understand consequences. I also think part is that parents cannot accept that their kids might have lied or incorrectly interpreted a situation or made a bad decision. They would rather lie to themselves and others rather than see what is true and deal with it.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Ok I am so disgusted by this issue it’s ridiculous.
We officially live in a country where the lobbyists are running the show!!!!

The overwhelming majority in this country do not see a reason for the average joe to have an assault weapon that shoots more shots than the average police officer will show up with.

Until we as a nation are willing to make laws about campaign finance nothing will ever change!
Peace
Kerri

To be fair, the shooting that spurred this particular discussion was done with a pair of weapons that held 6 rounds each and have to be loaded 1 cartridge at a time (assuming no speed loader for the revolver). We’re talking 19th century technology here which was used not only to murder 10 people, but also to engage the police in a 30 minute standoff. BTW, The average police sidearm is capable of accepting common 33 round magazines, though they typically use 17 round magazines for practically sake.

 

[CdnCarrie]

The bolded is not what I said but I have seen that as well. I said the child was grinning because the parent was yelling at the teacher in front of him/her about something that did not actually happen at all. However, I do daily see kids tattle on their friends for small things and be happy if they get a consequence but then expect that friend to continue to play with them and treat them kindly. If this has never happened with the children in Canada that you know then there probably is a true difference in the way children are being raised and what's expected of them in your country.

Not all, but most kids that I teach expect everyone to behave exactly as they want them to all the time no matter how they act. I believe part of this is because parents do not ever show their kids disappointment or anger at their actions. Believe me, my son knew when I wasn't happy or was disappointed with his choices and I think that did help him set his moral compass straight and understand consequences. I also think part is that parents cannot accept that their kids might have lied or incorrectly interpreted a situation or made a bad decision. They would rather lie to themselves and others rather than see what is true and deal with it.

I'm sure there are many parents like you describe and as a teacher you see all kinds.
However in my experience I have not come across parents try that routinely refuse to acknowledge their kids' bad behaviour. Most people are embarrassed if their kid is acting out.

 

[alldiz]

To be fair, the shooting that spurred this particular discussion was done with a pair of weapons that held 6 rounds each and have to be loaded 1 cartridge at a time (assuming no speed loader for the revolver). We’re talking 19th century technology here which was used not only to murder 10 people, but also to engage the police in a 30 minute standoff. BTW, The average police sidearm is capable of accepting common 33 round magazines, though they typically use 17 round magazines for practically sake.

Ok fair point. But the fact is who can keep count anymore.
The average joe does not need a gun that is mostly used by military and police response units.
Yes bad people with a gun even with one bullet can kill someone. Which is why we are the only civilized nation on he planet that has so many deaths by guns.
There needs to be a real common sense ground; stop the lobbyists fear mongering saying that better gun laws equal trying to take everyone’s guns away!
Peace
Kerri

 

[alldiz]

Gun crime is the result of multiple factors. I'm willing to bet that the perpetrators are psychologically unfounded, exposed to weapons, maybe exposed to religious ideology, maybe exposed to images or footage of violence, has easy access to weapons... the list goes on...

100 percent agree.
Problem is that we have a huge mental health issue in this country.
Not only is there not enough money to insure everyone, citizens cannot afford the price of private mental health care.

Besides that we still have a stigma with mental health issues, which prevents many people from seeking treatment. Also many people who need meds refuse to take them because of the horror stories of the old school depression meds.
If we can stop spending money on 3 hots and a cot for drug offenses we can put a ton of money towards mental rehabilitation and job training.
Which could end one cycle of violence.
Peace
Kerri

 

[LSUmiss]

100 percent agree.
Problem is that we have a huge mental health issue in this country.
Not only is there not enough money to insure everyone, citizens cannot afford the price of private mental health care.

Besides that we still have a stigma with mental health issues, which prevents many people from seeking treatment. Also many people who need meds refuse to take them because of the horror stories of the old school depression meds.
If we can stop spending money on 3 hots and a cot for drug offenses we can put a ton of money towards mental rehabilitation and job training.
Which could end one cycle of violence.
Peace
Kerri

I am a mental health professional & completely agree that there is a huge mental health crisis in this country & that many of our severely mentally ill are just warehoused in our prisons. However, I think the 2 issues are unrelated. As others have posted articles about profiles of these shooters, they are not really mentally ill. Most are sociopaths with personality issues. Mental health treatment cannot fix that. I think the mental health discussion has been used as a diversion tactic. We do need much better mental health care in this country l, BUT I don’t think we will see a decline in these events even if we change that.

 

[luvsJack]

I am a mental health professional & completely agree that there is a huge mental health crisis in this country & that many of our severely mentally ill are just warehoused in our prisons. However, I think the 2 issues are unrelated. As others have posted articles about profiles of these shooters, they are not really mentally ill. Most are sociopaths with personality issues. Mental health treatment cannot fix that. I think the mental health discussion has been used as a diversion tactic. We do need much better mental health care in this country l, BUT I don’t think we will see a decline in these events even if we change that.

I know nothing will fix a sociopath or that’s what I have told. So, what can weed them out so at least we have some way to know who they are? And is there nothing that can be done for them?

 

[alldiz]

I am a mental health professional & completely agree that there is a huge mental health crisis in this country & that many of our severely mentally ill are just warehoused in our prisons. However, I think the 2 issues are unrelated. As others have posted articles about profiles of these shooters, they are not really mentally ill. Most are sociopaths with personality issues. Mental health treatment cannot fix that. I think the mental health discussion has been used as a diversion tactic. We do need much better mental health care in this country l, BUT I don’t think we will see a decline in these events even if we change that.

Ok so as a mental health professsional I have some questions
I don’t think it is a diversion tactic.... but
I think someone who goes on this type of activity is NOT in there right mind.
Are you saying that these people are “sociopaths” and cannot be helped?
If so I would imagine maybe 10 percent is true on that. I am totally pulling on that one tho
I cannot comprehend the fact that better mental health treatment in this country would equal less gun violence. I am going out on a limb and thinking no only would gun violence go down but all kinds of violence would go down!!
Kerri

 

[Planogirl]

I'm not familiar with how other nations handle mental health issues. Can anyone here speak to that?

 

[Domo]

100 percent agree.
Problem is that we have a huge mental health issue in this country.
Not only is there not enough money to insure everyone, citizens cannot afford the price of private mental health care.

Besides that we still have a stigma with mental health issues, which prevents many people from seeking treatment. Also many people who need meds refuse to take them because of the horror stories of the old school depression meds.
If we can stop spending money on 3 hots and a cot for drug offenses we can put a ton of money towards mental rehabilitation and job training.
Which could end one cycle of violence.
Peace
Kerri

Totally agree. Just FYI, there are a series of investigations on the BBC to do with mental health and they are so eye opening. Did you know that one in TEN people will hear a voice when there is no one in the room at some point in their life?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Ok fair point. But the fact is who can keep count anymore.
The average joe does not need a gun that is mostly used by military and police response units.
Yes bad people with a gun even with one bullet can kill someone. Which is why we are the only civilized nation on he planet that has so many deaths by guns.
There needs to be a real common sense ground; stop the lobbyists fear mongering saying that better gun laws equal trying to take everyone’s guns away!
Peace
Kerri

Let’s be honest though. You can’t on one hand say “nobody needs such n such gun”, and then turn around and say, “nobody wants to take your guns away”.

And fear mongering cuts both ways. Roughly 325 Americans per year are shot to death with rifles - that’s all types combined. Compare that to the 3-3,500 who will drown in backyard swimming pools or the 8-850 who will die in bicycle crashes and it makes one wonder how one very specific variant of rifle can be considered such a danger to society.

 

[Domo]

I'm not familiar with how other nations handle mental health issues. Can anyone here speak to that?

We're still somewhat backwards when it comes to mental health in the UK. Sad

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Totally agree. Just FYI, there are a series of investigations on the BBC to do with mental health and they are so eye opening. Did you know that one in TEN people will hear a voice when there is no one in the room at some point in their life?

Not to add too much lightness to the situation but I swear two ghosts, mostly a man, has followed me throughout my life from my mom's house. My mom has had no interaction but other people have verified my accounts without any such prior knowledge..so I guess I'm one of the one in ten people that will hear a voice when no one is in the room

*It's ok if others don't believe in ghosts and whatnot just giving my experience.

 

[Domo]

Not to add too much lightness to the situation but I swear two ghosts, mostly a man, has followed me throughout my life from my mom's house. My mom has had no interaction but other people have verified my accounts without any such prior knowledge..so I guess I'm one of the one in ten people that will hear a voice when no one is in the room

*It's ok if others don't believe in ghosts and whatnot just giving my experience.

If it's any help, I see no reason not to believe in ghosts and spirits

 

[LSUmiss]

Ok so as a mental health professsional I have some questions
I don’t think it is a diversion tactic.... but
I think someone who goes on this type of activity is NOT in there right mind.
Are you saying that these people are “sociopaths” and cannot be helped?
If so I would imagine maybe 10 percent is true on that. I am totally pulling on that one tho
I cannot comprehend the fact that better mental health treatment in this country would equal less gun violence. I am going out on a limb and thinking no only would gun violence go down but all kinds of violence would go down!!
Kerri

The consensus at this point is no, they can’t be helped. Can they be prevented? Who knows? We still aren’t sure what makes a sociopath or psychopath. Psychopaths are born that way & sociopaths become that. But, since we really can’t know if ppl are born that way or become that way, the 2 words kinda get used interchangeably. It’s the whole nature vs nurture debate. Can they be properly identified & prevented from doing harm to others. I would say no b/c the science isn’t that exact. The theory is that many ppl are sociopaths or psychopaths (some research suggests as high as 1/4 of the general population), but not all are violent or will ever be. The propensity of violence depends on a lot of factors. So then how do you tell who should be locked up of whatever. Most of the time you find out someone is dangerous after they do something. I don’t disagree that better mental health may reduce overall gun violence, but I don’t think it’ll reduce the number of mass shootings. I agree something is not right with someone who would do this, but that’s like serial killers. Most ppl agree something isn’t right with someone who commits those acts, but they’re not mentally ill. Sociopaths & psychopaths like empathy, but they know right from wrong.

 

[mummabear]

And fear mongering cuts both ways. Roughly 325 Americans per year are shot to death with rifles - that’s all types combined. Compare that to the 3-3,500 who will drown in backyard swimming pools or the 8-850 who will die in bicycle crashes and it makes one wonder how one very specific variant of rifle can be considered such a danger to society.

I think this is apples and oranges.
A pool and a bike have other uses besides killing things. That’s IS the purpose of guns.

Now I don’t know about the IS laws around pools and bikes but here there are a multitude of laws that surround owning a pool, and criminal convictions if you fail to meet them. Swimming lessons are a required part of the curriculum just like maths is.
Bikes:helmets are required by law.
So in both of your examples reasonable measures are being taken to reduce the risks involved.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

Let’s be honest though. You can’t on one hand say “nobody needs such n such gun”, and then turn around and say, “nobody wants to take your guns away”.

And fear mongering cuts both ways. Roughly 325 Americans per year are shot to death with rifles - that’s all types combined. Compare that to the 3-3,500 who will drown in backyard swimming pools or the 8-850 who will die in bicycle crashes and it makes one wonder how one very specific variant of rifle can be considered such a danger to society.

I always love the mental gymnastics some play.
“No ones talking about taking your guns. Except for that gun, you don’t need that gun. It’s scary and it’s developed by the Devil. We’ll let you keep your other less leathal guns.
We’ll address those later after we get the scary ones.”