If global warming could be stopped and earth saved by ending the use of all forms of electricity, would you do it?

[DVC92]

Where are people going to recharge these cars? I have a 2-car garage, so I would have no problem, however, is every parking spot on a street going to have a charging station? Is Disney going to put charging stations at every parking spot? How much time will I have to waste driving from Maryland to Florida to charge my vehicle? Gas stations can easily have 12 gas pumps, but how large will a charging station need to be, or how many charging stations will be needed along roads and interstates? Seriously, has anyone even given this any thought?

 

[lowlight]

EVs are significantly cheaper per mile than gas powered cars. You need to factor that in when you talk about what people can afford.

Talk to me when you have to replace the batteries.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Where are people going to recharge these cars? I have a 2-car garage, so I would have no problem, however, is every parking spot on a street going to have a charging station? Is Disney going to put charging stations at every parking spot? How much time will I have to waste driving from Maryland to Florida to charge my vehicle? Gas stations can easily have 12 gas pumps, but how large will a charging station need to be, or how many charging stations will be needed along roads and interstates? Seriously, has anyone even given this any thought?

Well, does Disney have a gas pump at every parking spot? No, you'd have to go to a charging station. But you might find hotels begin to put them in, which is more convenient in some ways than having to head to a gas station.

Yes, currently, it would take longer for you to charge a vehicle than it is to fill up your car at a gas pump. KDonnell is better on this stuff than I am, but I'd guess you'd have to plan on an additional two hours of time for a drive from MD to FL. There are charging stations all along I-95, but likely not enough of them. I know that there are companies building charging stations around the nation, many owned by the auto manufacturers, like Volkswagen and Tesla. Adapters allow you to charge at any station. Tesla has super chargers take 15 minutes to charge up to 200 miles. So I guess closer to 25 minutes for 300 miles. Right now it doesn't appear to be a big issue because there aren't that many EVs on the road, but there's time for infrastructure to catch up and for technology to bring down that charging time. It will happen....just a matter of time. For us, I drive locally....up to 300+ miles a week and it's amazingly convenient to pull into my driveway and plug my car in. And I don't have a garage...live in the northeast, and my outdoor charging station works beautifully.

 

[kdonnel]

Where are people going to recharge these cars? I have a 2-car garage, so I would have no problem, however, is every parking spot on a street going to have a charging station? Is Disney going to put charging stations at every parking spot? How much time will I have to waste driving from Maryland to Florida to charge my vehicle? Gas stations can easily have 12 gas pumps, but how large will a charging station need to be, or how many charging stations will be needed along roads and interstates? Seriously, has anyone even given this any thought?

It is currently possible to drive an EV coast to coast using the interstates, has been for a couple years.

67% of people in the US live in single family homes. They will do the vast majority of charging at their home. I only ever user public chargers when on a road trip.

For multi unit dwellings there are already charging units that power share a single 220 circuit. 2-10 chargers per circuit. Since the majority of level 1 or 2 charging occurs overnight it actually works out well. Everyone wakes up to a full car, everyday.

As for time spent charging on a trip, depends on your driving style. My trips from Atlanta to Orlando have exactly 0 minutes added due to charging. In the past and the present we time the trip so that we eat on the way. Now we just make sure to pick a spot with a nearby DCFC station and eat while charging. For the second stop we do our shopping for the meals we plan to eat in the condo. Again we pick a stop with a DCFC and shop while charging. The net result is exactly 0 minutes difference between a trip in an ICE and a trip in an EV for my driving style.

As for large charging stations....the US is really lagging behind the rest of the world. Isn't that how it usually works? We lag way behind, finally get drug into the future and then catch up. I have yet to arrive at a DCFC station and had to wait. The US government has allocated $7.5 billion to expand the current DCFC network. Each state has submitted a plan to the Feds to get their portion of that money. The plans have to spell out stations every 50 miles along major travel corridors with a minimum of 4 chargers at each station. Here is Georgia's plan. https://nevi-gdot.hub.arcgis.com/

Here is the future of charging that will one day come to the US when it is drug kicking and screaming into the future.

And here is a Baltimore to Orlando trip in my Mach e. I for one would not drive that far, I would fly.



A lot of very smart people have spent a lot of time and money thinking about the issue and providing solutions.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Talk to me when you have to replace the batteries.

Most EV manufacturers cover your battery for 100K miles or up to ten years. Tesla is 100K and 8 years. And battery prices are coming down. EV prices are not...and unfortunately, that's likely due to subsidies which I think are over inflating the market. You also have people flocking to EVs with higher gas prices. The market will eventually even out.

Speaking of costs....see all of those cars at the shop up on a lift...for oil changes, timing chain issues, starter, tune-ups....on and on.....they're mostly ICE cars...not EVs. There's next to no maintenance with EVs....with a Tesla, you change the air filter every two years....rotate the tires, that's it. Yes, things can happen...but we certainly are paying way less than the previous two ICE cars we had.

 

[kdonnel]

Talk to me when you have to replace the batteries.

When is that?

EV batteries last 10-20 years and are warrantied by law for 8 years and 100,000 miles.

Replacing your battery in an EV is not something many will ever need to do.

 

[DCLMP]

It's far more likely that angry people from California and Washington State will move to Texas and Oklahoma where they'll be able to buy ICE cars and gas stations to fill up for a longer period of time. I can't speak to what it's like to drive any EV but a Tesla Y, which is what I have....but of other EVs are half as much fun to drive, and as easy to plug in and maintain....most people will wish they'd gotten an EV sooner. I just don't see EV vs. ICE car as an issue that we "take to the streets" over.

Hopefully the other angry people that want electric cars move back to California and Washington where they belong. It's nice that rich people like yourself can buy Teslas's, but most of us can not.

 

[Ms.Minnie]

Most of the car manufacturers have announced plans to end production of gas powered cars by 2030. Washington State just announced that dealers will no longer be able to sell gas powered cars by 2035, although they are expect to end sales far before then. EVs are upto 12% of new vehicle registrations and doubling every couple of years. Gas stations in Seattle are already starting to close. Although that has more to do with developers coming in an offering them $40m an acre for their property. There is no way that making a $1 gallon profit off of gas is going to pencil out for them so they sell.

I guess we will have to wait and see. I think there will be a lot more debate about this before what you are predicting comes to pass (if it ever does).

Cost to charge:
Thus far in August $32 for 1000 miles, July was $58 for 1600 miles, June was $69 for 1900 miles. A total over the last three months of 4500 miles for $159. Those same 4500 miles at 25 MPG would need 180 gallons. 180 x $3.50 = $630 for gas. In reality the gas costs would have been more since gas has was much more expensive than $3.50 in June and July. So lets say $159 electric vs $700 gas. A savings of about $180-$200 a month. Plus the maintenance cost savings. The maintenance is effectively tire rotations and cabin air filters for the first 100,000 to 200,000 miles. Much less than the maintenance for an ICE car.

Battery degradation:
EVs do not have such a short expected EOL. Auto makers warranty the battery for 8 years 100,000 miles. Car batteries degrade much more slowly than people think. Real world usage has shown about 10% degradation over the first 100,000 miles on average. The initial burst of degradation is most dramatic and then slow and linear after that. So at 200,000 miles it should at around 18% or so. Still plenty of life. Using my Mach e as an example it would take me about 13 years to reach 200000 miles and I would have about 257 miles of range on a full charge at that point.

End of EV life:
As more and more EVs do approach their end of life, businesses will crop up to tackle recycling. As with any new opportunity to make money, people will step up to make the money.

Battery fires:
A recent study conducted by AutoInsuranceEZ using data from the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) showed that electric cars in the US caught fire at a rate of 25.1 per 100,000 sales compared to 1,530 for ICE vehicles and 3,475 for hybrids.

The fires when they do occur can be more problematic as they are difficult to extinguish but they occur 60x less often than ICE cars.

Based on your three month average as stated in paragraph 1 you are doing an average of 18,000 miles per year (4,500 x 4). At that rate you will have done 144,000 miles in 8 years (18,000 x 8) which is well over the manufacturer warranty for battery life. In 13 years you would have driven 234,000 miles (18,000 x 13). Again, well past battery life expectancy. I don't know about you or others here, but DH & I tend to keep our vehicles for a long time, we don't like care payments. DH still has his 2001 F150, he doesn't use it much anymore, but it sure does come in handy when we need to haul something.

Where are people going to recharge these cars? I have a 2-car garage, so I would have no problem, however, is every parking spot on a street going to have a charging station? Is Disney going to put charging stations at every parking spot? How much time will I have to waste driving from Maryland to Florida to charge my vehicle? Gas stations can easily have 12 gas pumps, but how large will a charging station need to be, or how many charging stations will be needed along roads and interstates? Seriously, has anyone even given this any thought?

These are the issues I see with EVs. At this time, we are not ready to go all EV. This is also the reason why I think a hybrid is a better option at this point in time.

CA has set a dead line for the sale of new exclusively gasoline powered cars. NOT set a deadline for the sale of new gas powered cars.

So what you're saying is they will allow the sale of hybrid vehicles? That isn't the way I heard it reported and to be honest I haven't taken the time to look it up. If this is true, I guess I don't have the issues with this as I did prior to hearing this information. I don't think anyone should have a problem with a hybrid car. While driving local you would most likely be running all electric and while taking a longer car trip you would switch over to gas and be able to fuel up quickly with many fuel sources readily available. The best of both worlds. This makes sense and would carry us until we have the infrastructure in place to handle all the EVs on the road and the manufacturers perfect the EVs they offer.

 

[DCLMP]

Of course the United States is going to remain the #1 economy in the world. The Chinese economy is contracting this year and they will never be able to attract foreign investment that will be needed to surpass the US.

We're the most indebted nation in the history of the world. I think you may be surprised what happens over the next couple of decades. Nothing lasts forever.........never in history has an empire stayed on top forever, and you certainly can't borrow from the future until the end of time.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Hopefully the other angry people that want electric cars move back to California and Washington where they belong. It's nice that rich people like yourself can buy Teslas's, but most of us can not.

Well, you're making a lot of assumptions there. We're two people in our 50s with one car. We had two ICE cars pre-pandemic...and realized we only need one car. My husband works remotely. So...from two ICE cars down to one EV, even a Tesla...is much cheaper for my household. Also, we leased our Tesla, and where I live in NJ, we were able to snag a 5K rebate right before the state ended that perk for EVs less than 55K. We live way, way below our means....always have.

Tesla prices have gone up significantly in the last two years, as have all new *and* used car prices. I find it super amusing that EVs are becoming a "woke" purchase in a lot of news outlets....when in all honestly, it makes sense financially for many, many people. ICE cars are turning into another "pry it from my cold, dead hands" kind of deal, which is so juvenile.

 

[kdonnel]

Based on your three month average as stated in paragraph 1 you are doing an average of 18,000 miles per year (4,500 x 4). At that rate you will have done 144,000 miles in 8 years (18,000 x 8) which is well over the manufacturer warranty for battery life. In 13 years you would have driven 234,000 miles (18,000 x 13). Again, well past battery life expectancy. I don't know about you or others here, but DH & I tend to keep our vehicles for a long time, we don't like care payments. DH still has his 2001 F150, he doesn't use it much anymore, but it sure does come in handy when we need to haul something.

So what you're saying is they will allow the sale of hybrid vehicles? That isn't the way I heard it reported and to be honest I haven't taken the time to look it up. If this is true, I guess I don't have the issues with this as I did prior to hearing this information. I don't think anyone should have a problem with a hybrid car. While driving local you would most likely be running all electric and while taking a longer car trip you would switch over to gas and be able to fuel up quickly with many fuel sources readily available. The best of both worlds. This makes sense and would carry us until we have the infrastructure in place to handle all the EVs on the road and the manufacturers perfect the EVs they offer.

While the warranty period is 8 years or 100000 miles that does not mean the battery stops functioning then. EV batteries are engineered for a 10-20 year or 500000 mile life. That is the point they are expected to have 50% of their initial capacity. I doubt your 2001 F150 exceeds those numbers. Even at 50% both of my EV would still be perfectly fine for all the driving we do except for road trips.

As for the California 2035 mandate, it most definitely continues to allow plug in hybrids after 2035. Will auto manufacturers make them? I guess that depends on what cars they think people will buy.

 

[sam_gordon]

When is that?

EV batteries last 10-20 years and are warrantied by law for 8 years and 100,000 miles.

Replacing your battery in an EV is not something many will ever need to do.

100,000 miles would probably last me about 5 years. I like to run cars into the ground (if I can). So keeping them for 7-10 years would not be unusual. DS is using my 2006 car that I got in 2010-2011(?). DW is still using her 2013 van that we got in 2015. I was driving a 2015 car (purchased in 2019), until it got totaled. Now have a 2020 that I expect to be driving until 2035 or so.

 

[DCLMP]

Talk to me when you have to replace the batteries.

13-20k to replace a battery in a tesla, but then again if you can afford a tesla you probably don't care.

 

[sam_gordon]

BTW, I don't care what "mandates" state/federal government puts out. If it's more than a month in the future, I *HIGHLY* doubt it will happen on schedule. Something will come up and it will get pushed back. Look at Real ID. It was supposed to take effect in 2013. How's that working out?

 

[Ms.Minnie]

Well, does Disney have a gas pump at every parking spot? No, you'd have to go to a charging station. But you might find hotels begin to put them in, which is more convenient in some ways than having to head to a gas station.

Yes, currently, it would take longer for you to charge a vehicle than it is to fill up your car at a gas pump. KDonnell is better on this stuff than I am, but I'd guess you'd have to plan on an additional two hours of time for a drive from MD to FL. There are charging stations all along I-95, but likely not enough of them. I know that there are companies building charging stations around the nation, many owned by the auto manufacturers, like Volkswagen and Tesla. Adapters allow you to charge at any station. Tesla has super chargers take 15 minutes to charge up to 200 miles. So I guess closer to 25 minutes for 300 miles. Right now it doesn't appear to be a big issue because there aren't that many EVs on the road, but there's time for infrastructure to catch up and for technology to bring down that charging time. It will happen....just a matter of time. For us, I drive locally....up to 300+ miles a week and it's amazingly convenient to pull into my driveway and plug my car in. And I don't have a garage...live in the northeast, and my outdoor charging station works beautifully.

No but there are gas stations readily available, and you can fill up and ICE quickly when compared to an EV. Just sayin...Don't get me wrong, I can see for some an EV is a very good choice I'm just not there yet. The hybrid seems to make better sense to me at this time.

There's a thread on the DVC Resort board titled:

RIV: Electric car chargers have been broken for more than a month​

Apparently, the charging stations at RR have been down for some time. They have been reported to Disney but they still remain broken. Not sure why that is or who is responsible for the repair. This seems like a problem to me. Another poster in this same thread made the comment that approximately 50% of the charging stations out there are broken or have been vandalized (he drives and EV). I don't know how accurate that information is but if it's true it's a problem.

 

[dvcgirl67]

No but there are gas stations readily available, and you can fill up and ICE quickly when compared to an EV. Just sayin...Don't get me wrong, I can see for some an EV is a very good choice I'm just not there yet. The hybrid seems to make better sense to me at this time.

There's a thread on the DVC Resort board titled:

RIV: Electric car chargers have been broken for more than a month​

Apparently, the charging stations at RR have been down for some time. They have been reported to Disney but they still remain broken. Not sure why that is or who is responsible for the repair. This seems like a problem to me. Another poster in this same thread made the comment that approximately 50% of the charging stations out there are broken or have been vandalized (he drives and EV). I don't know how accurate that information is but if it's true it's a problem.

I get it Ms.Minnie....I'm not exactly an early adopter of EVs. It'll be two years for us in December, and as I've said, for what our needs are....it's absolutely a game changer.

And yes, there are issues with charging stations being broken....just saw an article about that. I'm not sure if 50% is accurate or not. And I'll be honest, so far we have not taken a road trip with our Tesla, but wouldn't be afraid to do so. We're not even close to getting to even 50% of EVs on our roads...a couple of decades likely. But I will say that it is amazing how many more EVs I see in our area....like it's exploded overnight. Teslas stand out to me now because I have one and you always seem to notice the car you drive more I think. But I notice lots of other EVs now too, or Hybrids....just from how they sound...etc.

I don't know, my husband and I have definitely become big fans and while I wouldn't call us evangelists, we're more than happy to answer questions about our EV and have offered many friends/acquaintances a chance to drive it so they can see how it feels. Our neighbors across the street ordered a Tesla Y after driving ours. They were reluctant because they also do not have a garage, but after seeing us plug in for 1.5 years...even in ice and snow with no issues they were sold.

 

[Ms.Minnie]

While the warranty period is 8 years or 100000 miles that does not mean the battery stops functioning then. EV batteries are engineered for a 10-20 year or 500000 mile life. That is the point they are expected to have 50% of their initial capacity. I doubt your 2001 F150 exceeds those numbers. Even at 50% both of my EV would still be perfectly fine for all the driving we do except for road trips.

As for the California 2035 mandate, it most definitely continues to allow plug in hybrids after 2035. Will auto manufacturers make them? I guess that depends on what cars they think people will buy.

I'm not exactly sure of the exact mileage on the F150 but it is over 260,000 miles. This vehicle is fine for local driving but like you I wouldn't take it on a long road trip. Why tempt fate...

I don't have a problem with progress, my problem is that I think this is being shoved down our throats (so to speak) and I don't like that. I will say that the drastic increase in fuel prices over the last 18 months has made me seriously think about the type of vehicle we will purchase the next time we need to replace our main car. I guess in that regard the powers that be, have succeeded in some way.

To the OP, your question reminds me of something my DF once said to us when we installed a wood burning stove in our fireplace to try and reduce our heating bill. He said, "nothing like progressing to the past", that's what not using electricity would be like. Hopefully we will have an alternative if we ever need to do this.

 

[kdonnel]

100,000 miles would probably last me about 5 years. I like to run cars into the ground (if I can). So keeping them for 7-10 years would not be unusual. DS is using my 2006 car that I got in 2010-2011(?). DW is still using her 2013 van that we got in 2015. I was driving a 2015 car (purchased in 2019), until it got totaled. Now have a 2020 that I expect to be driving until 2035 or so.

So you typically drive a car beyond the warranty period. Nothing changes with an EV. You are just driving it beyond the warranty period.

 

[DCLMP]

Well, you're making a lot of assumptions there. We're two people in our 50s with one car. We had two ICE cars pre-pandemic...and realized we only need one car. My husband works remotely. So...from two ICE cars down to one EV, even a Tesla...is much cheaper for my household. Also, we leased our Tesla, and where I live in NJ, we were able to snag a 5K rebate right before the state ended that perk for EVs less than 55K. We live way, way below our means....always have.

Tesla prices have gone up significantly in the last two years, as have all new *and* used car prices. I find it super amusing that EVs are becoming a "woke" purchase in a lot of news outlets....when in all honestly, it makes sense financially for many, many people. ICE cars are turning into another "pry it from my cold, dead hands" kind of deal, which is so juvenile.

Many people are angry because they see what the green madness is doing to our economy. There's a lot of people struggling right now because of inflation reportedly one in six households are behind on their energy bill. So wealthy people telling them to go buy an electric car is insulting and is just going to cause more anger. It also shows how juvenile and out of touch some people in the upper income brackets are.

 

[longboard55]

We are a long way from what the EV will eventually will become. A ton of money is being spent on developing the next generation of batteries. Think of the PC in the 80s and where we are now. We live in south orange county, the one in California, we have loads of EVs and people do seem to love them. As far as producing electricity, solar works great out west, again its a case of inventing the large storage batteries so we can eventually become 100% solar, but they are working on it