If global warming could be stopped and earth saved by ending the use of all forms of electricity, would you do it?

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All cars are expensive right now. Most people cannot afford any car right now and if they can they have more pressing needs like keeping up with the rising cost of living. New cars aren’t a priority right now….
I just finished looking for a car (mine was totaled in a wreck). There are cars available at EVERY price point. If you NEED to purchase a car right now, you can. I did try to get into a Hybrid. But, because of the cost (comparable hybrids were 3-5k more than ICE), I could not accept the "upfront cost", even though yes, it would be a savings down the road. But it would have been about 5 years (I think, I did the math, but don't remember the answer) to "break even".

By "comparable", I mean one that has the same features, the same size, same mileage, and same age. I could have dropped features, added mileage (like 40k miles), or added age (~5 years) to make a hybrid the same cost as an ICE. Didn't want to do any of that.
 
We just don't see the world the same way. And we get our news/information from different places. There's par for the course these days....so agree to disagree.
I can’t say I see I see the world differently from you because you never provide answers or explanations for your thought process. Saying economies go up and down is very simplistic anyone can say that.
 
Europe has been shutting down their nuclear power plants. Specifically Germany the country most dependent on Russian oil.
 
None of this will probably ever matter since, whether it is Putin before he dies, fat boy from N. Korea, or the whack-jobs running Iran, one of them will probably hit the Nuke button which will be the beginning of the end for the world as we know it.
 
None of this will probably ever matter since, whether it is Putin before he dies, fat boy from N. Korea, or the whack-jobs running Iran, one of them will probably hit the Nuke button which will be the beginning of the end for the world as we know it.
Nah. They don’t want to make the planet uninhabitable. It’s an economic war.
 
Produce, transport, land clear, install, maintain, remove and dispose of …
YES
What happens in places that have hurricanes and tornadoes. Can these panels blow off? I would assume they would because roofs blow off. How would that effect the environment if they are hard to dispose of? Are the materials toxic? Would it increase insurance costs because they are so expensive to replace? I honestly don’t know just thinking out loud. We are a country with a lot of natural disasters that other countries don’t have?
 
None of this will probably ever matter since, whether it is Putin before he dies, fat boy from N. Korea, or the whack-jobs running Iran, one of them will probably hit the Nuke button which will be the beginning of the end for the world as we know it.

Why bother doing that when you can bring the US to its knees by hacking into a pipeline's control systems and shutting it down. That is more lucrative.
 
When people say depression, change in world order, economic collapse it doesn’t mean the end of the world. The deniers are the one that always get so hyperbolic and panicked assuming the person is talking about the end of the world. History go es in cycles I believe we are coming to end of that cycle because this one has failed. Hopefully we don’t make the same mistake again when we recover. You only have to look at history to understand the future. Yet some people think the present is always going to be the future.

I didn't say the end of the world. I specifically used the modifier "as we know it". The world is always changing, but the problem with trying to use history as a guide is that guessing which events will soon repeat is a highly subjective and speculative endeavor.

I remember reading that solar panels passed that barrier about ten years ago....but again, I suppose it all depends on the source.

It does, because there are a million different ways of calculating. Most of the ones that aim to show the downsides of renewables take into account things like "land clearing", using assumptions of solar or wind replacing green space in all or most cases, and that's an assumption so flawed as to cross over into intentionally misleading. In my state, there seem to be two types of utility-scale solar: those installed on brownfields and otherwise blighted land and those installed on former farmland. The latter could, I suppose, be considered "land clearing" but for an accurate environmental accounting you'd then have to weigh the loss of the plant life the panels replaced against the environmental impacts of the type of farming used on that land before the transition.

What happens in places that have hurricanes and tornadoes. Can these panels blow off? I would assume they would because roofs blow off. How would that effect the environment if they are hard to dispose of? Are the materials toxic? Would it increase insurance costs because they are so expensive to replace? I honestly don’t know just thinking out loud. We are a country with a lot of natural disasters that other countries don’t have?

I can answer some of this, at least from a midwest perspective, because I've been researching home-scale solar with an eye toward that being one of our next major home projects. Yes, they could theoretically blow off but between their weight and the anchor system used in mounting they're less likely to do so than standard roofing materials. It would take the kind of direct hit that destroys neighborhoods, which is highly unlikely but not impossible in my corner of Michigan. The materials are actually relatively benign; there's some lead, copper, and of course silicone in the PV cells, but the bulk of the panel is glass and aluminum - less toxic in the case of natural disaster than the asbestos insulation and lead paint on the housing stock in my area. And solar panel recycling is starting to take off - the volume of waste is still small, only a fraction of the e-waste generated by replacing cell phones, but the materials are valuable enough to make the effort attractive given the expected increase over time - so by the time we have end-of-life panels to dispose of (estimated lifespan of 20-25 years) safe disposal should be a well-established process.

Our insurance company quoted us a small increase in homeowners premiums for installing the system, because we do have a replacement value policy and rebuilding with solar is obviously more expensive than rebuilding without, but to put it in context the increase would be about 1% of our annual premium. Less than the amount we saved when we replaced our natural wood fireplace with gas. Our house is almost all electric, so with the new tax incentives the payback period on solar is quite attractive and the prices are much more reasonable than when we first looked into it a decade ago, but for a project of this scale I put in a lot of research before committing and I'm not 100% sold yet.
 
It does, because there are a million different ways of calculating. Most of the ones that aim to show the downsides of renewables take into account things like "land clearing", using assumptions of solar or wind replacing green space in all or most cases, and that's an assumption so flawed as to cross over into intentionally misleading. In my state, there seem to be two types of utility-scale solar: those installed on brownfields and otherwise blighted land and those installed on former farmland. The latter could, I suppose, be considered "land clearing" but for an accurate environmental accounting you'd then have to weigh the loss of the plant life the panels replaced against the environmental impacts of the type of farming used on that land before the transition.

Interesting for sure. I also think that by "source"....it's a "follow the money" kind of deal. For example, if you google "Are EVs cheaper to maintain than ICE cars".....you'll find a lot of "articles" from groups that have a stake in ICE cars...whether it is parts, auto mechanics...etc. For example, I have a brother-in-law on my husband's side who is a mechanic....he's in his 60s, takes a lot of pride in what he does....rightfully so, and is a real "car guy" for sure. Over the years, he would always talk to my husband about whatever car he had....to the point where his wife would have to nudge him away from the topic...lol. The last ICE car my husband had was a Porsche Macan...and this guy *loved* that car. Well, then we traded in our two ICE cars...and got one Tesla. When we saw him last....we pulled up and he saw the car, we went in to see visit with my husband's parents, and he legit didn't say one thing about the Tesla...not one comment, question...didn't even give us a hard time.....lol. He is clearly not a guy who is into EVs...he seemed offended by it. And I get it...just kind of interesting to not feel the "car love" from him when he saw that EV. ;).
 
One of the biggest investors in solar farms is Warren Buffett. My guess is he did his research

Everyplace is different but the southwest has a lot of open lland with a lot of sunshine and no water. So solar is the perfect solution. We also have 30 years of nuclear waste from 2 large reactors sitting 100 yards from one of the busiest freeways in America.
 
One of the biggest investors in solar farms is Warren Buffett. My guess is he did his research

Everyplace is different but the southwest has a lot of open lland with a lot of sunshine and no water. So solar is the perfect solution. We also have 30 years of nuclear waste from 2 large reactors sitting 100 yards from one of the busiest freeways in America.
Yes he did! You are 100 correct! He makes his money from the government subsidies and incentives!!!
 
I didn't say the end of the world. I specifically used the modifier "as we know it". The world is always changing, but the problem with trying to use history as a guide is that guessing which events will soon repeat is a highly subjective and speculative endeavor.



It does, because there are a million different ways of calculating. Most of the ones that aim to show the downsides of renewables take into account things like "land clearing", using assumptions of solar or wind replacing green space in all or most cases, and that's an assumption so flawed as to cross over into intentionally misleading. In my state, there seem to be two types of utility-scale solar: those installed on brownfields and otherwise blighted land and those installed on former farmland. The latter could, I suppose, be considered "land clearing" but for an accurate environmental accounting you'd then have to weigh the loss of the plant life the panels replaced against the environmental impacts of the type of farming used on that land before the transition.



I can answer some of this, at least from a midwest perspective, because I've been researching home-scale solar with an eye toward that being one of our next major home projects. Yes, they could theoretically blow off but between their weight and the anchor system used in mounting they're less likely to do so than standard roofing materials. It would take the kind of direct hit that destroys neighborhoods, which is highly unlikely but not impossible in my corner of Michigan. The materials are actually relatively benign; there's some lead, copper, and of course silicone in the PV cells, but the bulk of the panel is glass and aluminum - less toxic in the case of natural disaster than the asbestos insulation and lead paint on the housing stock in my area. And solar panel recycling is starting to take off - the volume of waste is still small, only a fraction of the e-waste generated by replacing cell phones, but the materials are valuable enough to make the effort attractive given the expected increase over time - so by the time we have end-of-life panels to dispose of (estimated lifespan of 20-25 years) safe disposal should be a well-established process.

Our insurance company quoted us a small increase in homeowners premiums for installing the system, because we do have a replacement value policy and rebuilding with solar is obviously more expensive than rebuilding without, but to put it in context the increase would be about 1% of our annual premium. Less than the amount we saved when we replaced our natural wood fireplace with gas. Our house is almost all electric, so with the new tax incentives the payback period on solar is quite attractive and the prices are much more reasonable than when we first looked into it a decade ago, but for a project of this scale I put in a lot of research before committing and I'm not 100% sold yet.
You don't have hurricanes in Michigan. Hurricanes can cause a lot of widespread damage. We've all seen the pictures of the cat 3 and above hurricanes and it's not that uncommon. 25 years sounds like a long time, but it's not that long I've been in my house 25 years. We need to replace our roof and our AC's in a few years. I would hate to add new solar panels to the list.

I don't think you can use history to predict what's going to happen, but it does show that things go in cycles. The economic situation were in now is unprecedented. The Fed is between a rock and a hard place. They can't raise interest rates that much or they won't be able to service the debt. The USD is world the world's reserve currency. The Fed is basically the central bank of the world raising interest rates will cause other currency's to collapse. We're a global economy. The Fed can't do anything about the fiscal out of control spending or the shortages caused by the covid lockdowns, sanctions on Russia, or policies that have led to the current energy crisis.
When currencies collapse, people lose confidence, money printing begins and then hyperinflation occurs. I don't see the Fed being able to put the genie back in the bottle. It's difficult to do as long as shortages continue. Which they are predicting to get worse. I'll admit I'm pretty doomish about the economy short term, but optimistic long term. I do think we are going to need some kind of reset with our currency. Change is not always bad.
 
Why bother doing that when you can bring the US to its knees by hacking into a pipeline's control systems and shutting it down. That is more lucrative.
We are depleting our reserves, so we will need electric vehicles before 2035.
 
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