Guess What I Was Just Told?i Have The Long Awaited Disney Perk,WE GET THE AP AND PAP

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by Doctor P
BTW, there are several things that would make me happy on the part of DVC, even though I would get nothing directly out of these discounts:

{four restrictions snipped}

Doctor P,

With all due respect, I resisted the urge to reply to any of your posts on this subject until now. Now, please don't consider this reply a personal attack.

I am utterly baffled why you are so interested in wanting to ruin the pass program for others, just because APs and PAPs are not appropriate for your pattern of WDW visits.

It's highly likely that the Walt Disney attractions organization will sell far more APs and PAPs to DVC members than in the past. (Sure, those DVC members who would buy passes anyway will benefit, but what's so bad about that?) And DVD will sell more DVC points as add-ons and to new members.

Of course, the program details have been published and I doubt there's anyone in Disney attractions, DVD, or DVC management now exclaiming, "Gee, let's do what that Doctor P fella is suggesting. Let's add a bunch of restrictions so that DVC AP and PAP buyers will be second class citizens compared to other AP and PAP buyers. Sure, that would be bad business for Disney, but it would make Doctor P happy!"

 

[lenshanem]

Some people need to move on... GEEZ!
There is always one person who wants to ruin it for everyone else.

 

[Doctor P]

56% of DVC'ers are getting up to $800 each year in free cash based on doing nothing that they weren't already doing--and I shouldn't be at all upset that I am in a class of membership that can't get that perk? OK.

 

[jmminarik]

Originally posted by crisi
[Joe, you may want to check your math. For our family - only going for seven nights every other year, going into the parks every day (except the day we fly out), but also spending at least part of one day at at waterpark, going to DisneyQuest or PI, LOS still works out to be the best deal - if the discounts remain. [/B]

My mistake. Taking into account doing the parks everyday and PI and DQ and the water parks the UPH would be a better price for 7 days. I'd forgotten not all DVCers don't take a day or two off, and if you remove DQ from the list, it's almost a wash. I guess being an elitist pigcow does have a worldview altering effect.

-Joe

 

[perdidobay]

The Fox and the Grapes

One afternoon a fox was walking through the forest and spotted a bunch of grapes hanging from over a lofty branch.
"Just the thing to quench my thirst," quoth he.


Taking a few steps back, the fox jumped and just missed the hanging grapes. Again the fox took a few paces back and tried to reach them but still failed.

Finally, giving up, the fox turned up his nose and said, "They're probably sour anyway," and proceeded to walk away.

It's easy to despise what you cannot have.

 

[DebbieB]

Originally posted by Doctor P
56% of DVC'ers are getting up to $800 each year in free cash based on doing nothing that they weren't already doing--and I shouldn't be at all upset that I am in a class of membership that can't get that perk? OK.

I didn't know there were "classes of membership". Did you sign a contract good only for a certain week or a certain number of nights? My contract seems to be good all year and doesn't have a limit on nights of stay. I didn't see any restrictions on the AP discount that involved a "class of membership". It seems to be available for all members.

You "can't" get the perk? It's more like "choose" not to use the perk because of your vacation habits.

Again, have you contacted DVC and expressed your disappointment with the lack of a park hopper discount? What was their response?

 

[luvindisneyworld]

Originally posted by Doctor P
But no one has answered the basic question: why should people who are already buying annual passes get rewarded by a discount?

I think that we deserve a discount spending 400.00 a year on an AP.I also think they are doing this to draw more people to buy APs and that in turn will be bringing more money to Disney.They cut the price 100.00 for an AP but they will be selling probably twice as many as they were before.
They done the survey and they listened to the majority and that is just how it is.No matter what they would have done for memebers someone would have not liked it,thats just how it goes.I am sorry that you are the one that is dissapointed.There are alot more members happy about the new AP than not.

Sorry that you are so upset about this but thats just how it goes sometimes,you cant have your way all the time.

This new AP perk will definetly be alot better for Disney that not doing it,There are alot of members that would have Loved to be able to go to Epcot of a night and eat or go have a Margarita and watch Illuminations after a day by the pool without worrying about using up a day on their passes.This year was the first year we have purchased APs,in the past we would buy 7 day PH, and would just sopend 3 days in the park one trip and 4 the next trip.Since we have bought APs we are in the parks everday if it is just for dinner in Epcot.So they are getting more of my money since we purchased our APs.That is exactly what all the ones that now will be able to purchase them will do.
I hope they keep this for DVC members and I dont think they will be Sorry.

Misty

 

[elgerber]

Originally posted by DebbieB
I didn't know there were "classes of membership". Did you sign a contract good only for a certain week or a certain number of nights? My contract seems to be good all year and doesn't have a limit on nights of stay. I didn't see any restrictions on the AP discount that involved a "class of membership". It seems to be available for all members.

You "can't" get the perk? It's more like "choose" not to use the perk because of your vacation habits.

Well said Debbie!

 

[Doctor P]

Boy, it is easy to throw mud at people and I'm so glad that people think it is appropriate and fun to trash me. To make a very long story short, many of us do not have the choice as to when we vacation and do not have personal days that we can use at our discretion. We have been very happy with our DVC membership, but have been very disappointed with the following things that have changed since we first bought in: 1) suspension of pool hopping privileges--though not an important factor in our decision, it is extremely disheartening to know we will NEVER be able to pool hop because we need to vacation at anytime but the Christmas holidays (or one of the other holidays that has been subject to suspension); 2) diminishment of the UPH discount to near nothing by creating a discount for prepurchase of the UPH for which DVC members are ineligible; 3) creation of new member activities that will only occur in low season or while school is in session; 4) (and this is one that I still am angry about)--suspension of Member Updates if they occur on a holiday. I showed up for a Member update in 2001 that was on the calendar, was still being held according to Guest Services at OKW, and the DVC representatives didn't show up because it was a holiday. Apparently this was a new policy that no one bothered to inform members about, and one that cost me valuable time that could have been used for other activities. And, something that is absolutely inexcusable given the business DVC is in and the infrequency with which Member meetings are/were held; 5) creation of an incentive for 50 point add ons that may or may not be retroactive (I have an inquiry in) for park passes after we added on less than a month ago and have not yet closed on our add on and have received no break of any kind in adding on 124 points over three transactions (including on banking deadlines when our name came up on the add on list such that we had to close on an add on within two weeks of the end of our use year and pay maintenance fees on points that were basically useless); 6) creation of an annual pass discount without a discount for park passes for those who cannot stay more than seven nights. Since most of these are very specific to people who must travel at high season, can only stay seven nights or fewer, and live long distances from WDW, yes I would say that this is a class of membership, and one that is actually not as small as some on this board would have you believe. While no one of these things is really a big enough deal to get upset about, the accumulation really is a straw that broke the camel's back. I love DVC, but really feel like I'm getting a pretty raw deal. And, yes, I did write a NICE email a couple days ago about my concerns (very constructive and not whiny or demanding). I have yet to hear back, but hope that I am dignified with a response.

 

[DrTomorrow]

Originally posted by Doctor P
But no one has answered the basic question: why should people who are already buying annual passes get rewarded by a discount?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you really want an answer....

Issues relating to this have been discussed here for a while. I even created a thread "How will your DVC vacation plans change over time?". A fair amount of people - many who currently purchase APs - commented that, as the years pass, they will spend fewer days at the parks and purchase fewer APs. So this perk will (in Disney's eyes) prevent a future exodus from the parks to the myriad alternative vacation opportunities in Central Florida - sound marketing, IMHO.

It's also important to remember that the situation of most DVC owners will change over a span of decades. People have been cautioned about assuming that their vacation plans - currently dictated by job situations and/or childrens' academic/athletic schedules - will remain the same 10, 20 or 30 years from now.

Finally, you said "The idea should be to encourage future behavior changes, not reward past behavior." - that's not entirely correct. Rewarding desired behaviour to encourage its repetition is hardly a new or controversial concept.

To summarize:
- There is a reasonable likelihood that an increasing number of DVCers will be able to take advantage of this perk at some point during their ownership.
- Disney is being proactive by making it attractive for current AP holders to continue to be AP holders as the novelty of WDW fades with time and competition increases.
- Disney hopes, by rewarding current AP holders, to keep that core constituancy as they attract new AP purchasers.

Hope this helps!

Be well!

PS I think that I'm going to bring up this issue - and certain responses - at the Thanksgiving table this year.

 

[kweaver]

Originally posted by Doctor P
I guess one of the things that gets under my craw is that the 55% of DVC'ers who are supposedly already buying annual passes are getting a substantial perk for not doing anything but continuing the same behavior. I find it very difficult to believe that $100 more per person is going to be spent in the parks because of this discount. To me, it simply looks like a group of DVC'ers are being singled out to receive a kickback that some of us cannot receive. Sorry, but I think that stinks.

The 55% of people who buy APs are not going to change their buying habits (but they are going to be happy campers)...that's not what DVC was banking on when they made this offer. There is no viable way for Disney to exclude these people from the discount, and giving it to them creates good will (they keep buying them year after year) and great word of mouth advertising...so it's still a win for Disney.

It's the 35% of people who currently purchase PHs and PHPs that Disney is banking on. If the majority of them all switch to APs and take longer vacations or more frequent vacations, Disney gets more revenue (increased add-ons, dining, merchandise, etc.) plus all of the other wins listed above.

I understand that some people (who don't currently use APs, which includes me) might feel slighted about this issue. However, this perk is available to all DVC members. It's up to you to determine if/how you use it. Disney is not responsible for your personal situation.

 

[Doctor P]

BTW, my vacation habits are no more of a choice than one's race or ethnicity. I am only ALLOWED to take more than one day or so when the university is not open (which is every weekday except December 24-January 1 normally)--I have taken a couple vacations outside of those parameters and one year ago was called on the carpet and told that they would be keeping an eye on me and taht if I missed any departmental meetings or was unavailable for any period of time for non business reasons there would be repercussions. And you know what, whether I like it or not, sometimes they have the power. In fact, even with the little vacation that I take, I have a reputation among my colleagues for taking way too much time off!!!! Geez!

 

[rinkwide]

I, for one, am convinced the motivation for this discount is very simple: Disney was finding in their guest surveys that an increasing portion of DVC membership was going off property.

We all know that Walt Disney World is set up to be this huge and wonderful cash vacuum that sucks every buck out of your wallet and leaves you smiling about it. In recent years Universal and Seaworld have done well to create their own little money sucking Dirt Devils. As a result, Disney has been disappointed to learn that an increasing percentage of thier most loyal and profitable customers (us DVCers) are blowing their children's inheritance elsewhere.

A partial solution comes in the form of increased AP sales. Disney's research tells them that passholders are much more likely to remain on property all, or most all, of their vacation. So in my opinion, this new perk is not so much rewarding members who currently purchase passes but trying to ensure that as many members as plausible will continue to do so going forward. It's a simple effort to try and maximize present and future dollars spent on property.

I personally like the strategy, both as a DVC member and as a Walt Disney Company shareholder.

 

[Doctor P]

DrTomorrow,

Thank you for an even-handed and reasoned response. And one that DOES make sense.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by Doctor P
56% of DVC'ers are getting up to $800 each year in free cash based on doing nothing that they weren't already doing--and I shouldn't be at all upset that I am in a class of membership that can't get that perk? OK.

Nobody is getting free cash.

And where does "56%" come from? The last that heard, only 12% or 15% of DVC members buy APs today. (You can't go by polls on this board because we're not typical, but the numbers from actual DVC surveys should be fairly accurate.)

For my family (self, wife, two teens), the previous cost for 4 APs would have been roughly $1600. We would not visit the the parks often enough in 12 months to make the numbers work out. So I've never bought 4 APs.

With the new DVC discount, we would still need to spend around $1200. But, now APs become a reasonable alternative to Park Hoppers. It takes two fewer days to make the numbers work out than with regularly priced APs. The big difference is that Park Hoppers can be stretched out over several years by avoiding daily Disney theme park visits, but APs expire in 12 months. With APs, there's no problem going to a Disney park for only a few hours, without feeling that you're "burning" a $50 admission day on each Park Hopper -- so that's the big advantage of APs.

If I buy 4 DVC-discounted APs next year, I'll still spend more money on admission media than in the past. And we probably won't spend appreciably more hours in the Disney theme parks. But instead of having intensive theme park days alternating with with days when we do something else, we'll probably go to the Disney parks almost daily while we're in the area, although each visit is likely to be shorter. We'll be less likely to go to Universal and other off site attractions, shops, and restaurants.

That's good business for Disney.

 

[crisi]

Well,

Something like 56% of people on this board already got APs, but we are not a representative sample. I think if that were true across the board, this would make little business sense to give us a discount.

But someone came back from the annual meetings last year and said only 15% of DVC members in total get APs. In which case, if they can get a significant conversation over to APs - even just 10% more, sell more DVC points based off this discount, they will make up their money and then some - and its a good business decision. They aren't "rewarding" anyone - they are trying to get more people to spend more time at WDW. I suspect they have woken up to the fact that plenty of DVC members can stretch a seven day hopper over two weeks of stay - with pool days and minigolf days and waterpark days....plus (and worse for Disney) trips to Universal or SeaWorld or drive to the beach - and enough to make this a profitable decision for them.

Also, we've noticed that the trade outs aren't great and getting worse, and that has been a increasing issue. Our DVC points go further at WDW (or HH or VB) than anywhere else (and the cash discounts at HH and VB don't even make those a great deal at times). This makes it even more attractive to use your DVC points at WDW - and if fewer people want to trade, there is less dissatisfaction with the value of trades.

I don't think DVC is doing this because we "deserve" a discount. If they are, I'm selling my stock now! Businesses don't make money giving things away because their customers "deserve" it. They are doing this because we asked, they analyzed, and they will make more money in the end.

 

[elfbo]

Originally posted by Doctor P
BTW, my vacation habits are no more of a choice than one's race or ethnicity.

Ok that is really offensive, and incorrect. YOU can change your vacation habits though a change of employment (finding a new job, or even retiring). There is absloutely no way that I can change my race or ethnicity.

 

[Doctor P]

And there is absolutely no way I can change jobs, so I guess we are in the same boat. Sorry to offend you, but that's the position I am in. And any rational person who considered the facts of the job situation would agree that there is NO choice in changing jobs.

 

[kweaver]

Originally posted by Doctor P
Boy, it is easy to throw mud at people and I'm so glad that people think it is appropriate and fun to trash me. To make a very long story short, many of us do not have the choice as to when we vacation and do not have personal days that we can use at our discretion. We have been very happy with our DVC membership, but have been very disappointed with the following things that have changed since we first bought in: (snip for brevity) While no one of these things is really a big enough deal to get upset about, the accumulation really is a straw that broke the camel's back. I love DVC, but really feel like I'm getting a pretty raw deal. And, yes, I did write a NICE email a couple days ago about my concerns (very constructive and not whiny or demanding). I have yet to hear back, but hope that I am dignified with a response.

Please know that I am not trying to trash you in any way. I'm replying because I'd like to think that everyone here can understand the concept that Disney is in business to make money...not give it away.

The items you listed above are all perks...which are not part of the "deal". They are bonuses, which can (and do) go away at any time. The "deal" is the contract you signed with DVC purchasing points to use at DVC resorts (within the rules stated in the contract, of course). You have not gotten a "raw deal". You have received exactly what you signed on for.

It is not Disney's fault (or responsibility) that you are not in a position to take advantage of the perks that they offer.

I will say that the situation with the Member Update...which may or may not be defined as a perk, I suppose...was unfortunate and in very poor taste if the story is accurate. It may be that the DVC folks always have the holiday off...and whoever prepared the calendar is actually to blame. I'm very sorry that happened to you. Did you ever receive an explanation?

 

[kweaver]

Originally posted by Doctor P
And there is absolutely no way I can change jobs, so I guess we are in the same boat. Sorry to offend you, but that's the position I am in. And any rational person who considered the facts of the job situation would agree that there is NO choice in changing jobs.

Are you serious?