Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[dianeschlicht]

This could be the very first DVC thread to reach the 250 page limit when it would have to be closed, and a new continuation thread developed.

NO, NO!!! Say it isn't so, Bill! I lost interest in this dead horse several months ago! Nothing new has been said since then!

 

[ParrotBill]

I enjoy receiving a mailing once a month that is trying to get me to buy more points or recruit another member... yet they can't send a letter about a change that drastically affects how you use your membership.

This really stinks for those of us that need to fly to and from small air markets. The cost to fly is considerably higher on weekends, so we've learned to fly midweek. A typical stay for us is 7 to 10 days over a weekend. I estimate that the points change devalued our membership 25% in this way.

So now I can go back to weekend to weekend, and pay $600 per trip more in air?

*grumble*

 

[tjkraz]

This really stinks for those of us that need to fly to and from small air markets. The cost to fly is considerably higher on weekends, so we've learned to fly midweek. A typical stay for us is 7 to 10 days over a weekend. I estimate that the points change devalued our membership 25% in this way.

I'd be curious to hear more about how you reached that conclusion.

The increases are capped at 20% per night. Regardless of the trip duration, you shouldn't find any single night that is greater than 20% over the 2009 values.

Additionally, in most cases the changes for a weeklong stay are negligible. In most instances the weekly prices vary by just a couple of points between 2009 and 2010. It doesn't matter whether you arrive on a Saturday, Sunday or Wednesday. Weekdays were raised and weekends lowered, but the total for most weeks remained almost unchanged.

For your 8-10 night stays you may end up paying a few more points per night for those additional 1-3 nights, but the overall impact shouldn't come anywhere near 25%.

 

[Dean]

I'd be curious to hear more about how you reached that conclusion.

The increases are capped at 20% per night. Regardless of the trip duration, you shouldn't find any single night that is greater than 20% over the 2009 values.

Additionally, in most cases the changes for a weeklong stay are negligible. In most instances the weekly prices vary by just a couple of points between 2009 and 2010. It doesn't matter whether you arrive on a Saturday, Sunday or Wednesday. Weekdays were raised and weekends lowered, but the total for most weeks remained almost unchanged.

For your 8-10 night stays you may end up paying a few more points per night for those additional 1-3 nights, but the overall impact shouldn't come anywhere near 25%.

Tim, I wonder if he's saying he can't stay as long on the same points and that air will likely be higher and thus adding in the higher cost of the air on top of the minor increase in this situation. I agree that the increased cost is unlikely to be nearly as much as stated by ParrotBill. In some situations one could see both a shortening of usual stays AND an increase in air comparatively. But it doesn't have to be so because there are many ways to get back to where you started, even for the S-F stays which went up as much as 20%. Adding on, renting or getting transferred points periodically or paying cash for a night here and there can all negate the effects of this change but for some, at a higher cost.

 

[Mike]

Anyone else shocked this is at 176 pages!

Not one bit .... but I am floored that we hit 177 pages

 

[DVCGeek]

Not one bit .... but I am floored that we hit 177 pages

Wow! 177 *IS* truly amazing.

 

[Muushka]

As I mentioned before, I do OK with the change because we often have booked weekends. However, we were just on the 3 night DCL cruise and I find it underhanded at least that DVC only hands out charts for '08 and '09 where applicable (older resorts), and only '09 for BLT.

People will be in for a shock, and I think that's just wrong.

Bobbi

This thread is like a fight in a long line for Soarin! I can't help but peak!

Bobbi points out something interesting. If it was such a wonderful thing that DVD did, why are they not advertising it?
I agree, them not showing the new point structure is just wrong.
But I am certain many will figure out how to say it was the right thing to do....

 

[yitbos96bb]

This thread is like a fight in a long line for Soarin! I can't help but peak!

Bobbi points out something interesting. If it was such a wonderful thing that DVD did, why are they not advertising it?
I agree, them not showing the new point structure is just wrong.
But I am certain many will figure out how to say it was the right thing to do....

I don't understand what the two of you mean... The charts are on the website. They have been for a while.

 

[tjkraz]

Bobbi points out something interesting. If it was such a wonderful thing that DVD did, why are they not advertising it?

Perhaps it's because DVC doesn't consider it a "wonderful thing." Personally I see it as more of a necessary evil than a positive change worth gloating about. I've said repeatedly that I believe the change will have a negative impact on sales in the long term.

I agree, them not showing the new point structure is just wrong.
But I am certain many will figure out how to say it was the right thing to do....

There's a difference between seeing the logic in DVC's actions and judging them to be "right." I think Dean has done a good job of illustrating some of the reasons that it's to Disney's advantage to downplay negative changes. But that doesn't mean any of us are blindly praising every move that DVC makes.

 

[doconeill]

I don't understand what the two of you mean... The charts are on the website. They have been for a while.

I believe they are referring to "incidents" where prospective buyers wanted to see the 2010 charts, which were already out, but the guides/CMs tried to dance around it, claiming they didn't have them.

 

[DVCGeek]

I believe they are referring to "incidents" where prospective buyers wanted to see the 2010 charts, which were already out, but the guides/CMs tried to dance around it, claiming they didn't have them.

Any cases where that happened were shady and un-Disneylike in my opinion. Formal copies and books not printed yet? OK, open the .PDF and print them a "sample" black & white copy!!! Hopefully the song and dance didn't happen to very many people or at least few were 'harmed' by buying X points based on 2009 charts after the 2010 ones were already out but not disclosed to a new purchaser...

 

[Dean]

Any cases where that happened were shady and un-Disneylike in my opinion. Formal copies and books not printed yet? OK, open the .PDF and print them a "sample" black & white copy!!! Hopefully the song and dance didn't happen to very many people or at least few were 'harmed' by buying X points based on 2009 charts after the 2010 ones were already out but not disclosed to a new purchaser...

There are other possibilities besides that they were trying to hide them which I think is the least likely, IMO. I suspect it was more laziness than anything else. Still not appropriate but I don't think it's reasonable to say they were trying to hide them thinking someone might not buy if they saw the new points lists.

 

[hakepb]

I vote for just changing the name of this thread and then everyone can just reread what they've already posted.

That would put some in an absolute panic! (seeing this "newly announced" 201x points change instantly 177+ pages long on the first day of the change)

 

[CarolMN]

That would put some in an absolute panic! (seeing this "newly announced" 201x points change instantly 177+ pages long on the first day of the change)

Well, maybe, but it would be a lot less work for the mods!

 

[TSMIII]

Not unless there are new developments like a new reallocation for 2011 or 2012. Well maybe it will get there after all as I give it about a 20% change for some change in the allocation over the next 2-4 years.

Well Dean, you and many others (including myself earlier in this mammoth thread) have speculated that they may not yet be done with reallocation.

Gleaned from another board, this was posted yesterday by someone with a source inside DVC. I've excerpted it and removed some of the unimportant commentary:

"Deep Croaker says expect 2012 or maybe 2011 if the 2010 reallocation dos not increase weekend stays significantly.

The original changes had to be scrapped as they *EXCEEDED* the 20% maximum under our POS. ...

... I also have to believe this will have a significant effect on the Sun-Fri renters ... who were so 'value' conscious.

Also, everyone blithly assuming the 7 month window is fixed in stone. DVC can and has changed just about everything. If Home Resort Owner's still complain about availabiltiy, the 7 month window, *COULD* shrink...."

So more changes may yet be coming - depending on how much confidence you place in this source.

Question for you Dean - we know of the POS language mentioning a minimum stay of no more than 5 days, however, to the best of your knowledge, is there anything preventing DVC from REQUIRING that the minimum stay INCLUDE at least one WEEKEND night? Or even both weekend nights?

I'm thinking if reallocation failed, and an imposed minimum stay failed, whether they could turn to some other means such as this to balance demand?

 

[bobbiwoz]

I don't understand what the two of you mean... The charts are on the website. They have been for a while.

When we were on the DCL cruise 2 weeks ago, the port was closed for a few hours, and we were terribly delayed getting on the ship. The "DVC Member" meeting was before we boarded, so DH went to the meeting for new DVC potential buyers. He is the one who brought me back the literature, and so, for people who aren't in DVC, who have no idea that the points will be changing in 2010 for sure, they are only being given old charts, charts that have until December 2009 only. They are given charts that show that there was no difference between 2008 and 2009 for the older resorts, except for the time periods for the seasons. That is what I am objecting to but it doesn't concern me directly. I know about the new charts.

We were on the DCL cruise that began May 21st. I think this was very poor on DVC's part. I hope they are giving out new charts now. I was not at the meeting and if I were, I would have discussed the matter with the presenter after the meeting. I didn't look at what DH brought back until we booked a new cruise for 2010. Then I went to what DH brought and tried to find how much it would cost us for the WDW portion of the trip. That was Saturday, and we left the ship on Sunday.

Bobbi

 

[BWV Dreamin]

We went to that DVC member meeting on our Wonder cruise...they only gave out cruise point charts and the latest RCI resorts. No DVC resort point charts were given out at all.

When we were on the DCL cruise 2 weeks ago, the port was closed for a few hours, and we were terribly delayed getting on the ship. The "DVC Member" meeting was before we boarded, so DH went to the meeting for new DVC potential buyers. He is the one who brought me back the literature, and so, for people who aren't in DVC, who have no idea that the points will be changing in 2010 for sure, they are only being given old charts, charts that have until December 2009 only. They are given charts that show that there was no difference between 2008 and 2009 for the older resorts, except for the time periods for the seasons. That is what I am objecting to but it doesn't concern me directly. I know about the new charts.

We were on the DCL cruise that began May 21st. I think this was very poor on DVC's part. I hope they are giving out new charts now. I was not at the meeting and if I were, I would have discussed the matter with the presenter after the meeting. I didn't look at what DH brought back until we booked a new cruise for 2010. Then I went to what DH brought and tried to find how much it would cost us for the WDW portion of the trip. That was Saturday, and we left the ship on Sunday.

Bobbi

 

[Dean]

Question for you Dean - we know of the POS language mentioning a minimum stay of no more than 5 days, however, to the best of your knowledge, is there anything preventing DVC from REQUIRING that the minimum stay INCLUDE at least one WEEKEND night? Or even both weekend nights?

The question is does the POS give them the authority to do this. IMO, it does and I have posted such many times. Not only could DVC institute a stay up to 5 days, they could require which days are included. They could require that every stay include a weekend day or they could require certain grouping of days. Or they could give priority to those reserving say a full week at a time or starting on a weekday. I don't know if they will or not but there are many years to go and IMO, we have only seen minor changes so far.

 

[ilovepooh]

All I can say is that I no longer rave about what a great deal DVC is to people who ask. I think the reallocation just stinks regardless of the fact that they have a right to do it. They better make it right or they will lose money! I won't recommend anyone buying DVC right now!


DVC brags about how flexible their timeshare is compared with others, but they are making vacationing more and more difficult/complicated with changing charts and possibly requiring minimum/max. length of stay, and particular days of stay! That is not flexible for me at all! The point system is worthless if they institute those changes! it would be easier to buy a different timeshare and pick weeks if that were the case.

 

[Dean]

All I can say is that I no longer rave about what a great deal DVC is to people who ask. I think the reallocation just stinks regardless of the fact that they have a right to do it. They better make it right or they will lose money! I won't recommend anyone buying DVC right now!


DVC brags about how flexible their timeshare is compared with others, but they are making vacationing more and more difficult/complicated with changing charts and possibly requiring minimum/max. length of stay, and particular days of stay! That is not flexible for me at all! The point system is worthless if they institute those changes! it would be easier to buy a different timeshare and pick weeks if that were the case.

That might be true for you but not from an overall standpoint. They didn't change the rules, only shift the specifics somewhat. I don't think DVC ever intended for that flexibility to truly be just S-F stays regardless even though it is possible (still is) though the costs have shifted.