Disney Skyliner (Gondola Transportation System) Read Post 1 Now Open!

[nkosiek]

According to people at Disney, they are short close to 400 bus drivers at any given time. Surely the gondolas will help alleviate the need for some of these because they will eliminate those positions.

 

[hakepb]

Tonight was almost the worst-case scenario for gondolas, with thunderstorms at 4th of July fireworks time.

If it was a longer storm that stopped the gondola system, it would really strain the bus system not staffed for backing it up on July 4.

 

[DBDiz]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I'd like to ask some questions in regards to the buses. Isn't all on-site transportation considered complimentary? Meaning Disney is voluntarily offering it, and as such, not making a guest pay for travel? And since the guests are not directly paying for said transportation, they would therefore not be entitled to it? Is it mandated in legal code anywhere that Disney is required to transport guests from hotel to theme park, or can it be reasonable assumed that once you are at your hotel that it is your own responsibility to make travel arrangements to the park?

The way I'm interpreting it is this: Disney is legally required to make all necessary lodging accommodations to persons with disabilities who are staying in their hotel rooms, and to all park guests who purchase admission. I do not see how they are legally required to transport you between the two if they are not directly charging you a transportation fee. Is it poor customer service and bad for corporate image to deny any portion of your guest population an alternative option? Sure. Are they required to do so? I don't believe so.

But I'm just an armchair lawyer spitballing here. I have no legal basis or education to justify this stance and would love to hear an explanation or corrections fromsomeone who is actually a lawyer or has dealt with ADA Compliance law.

 

[RRB]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I'd like to ask some questions in regards to the buses. Isn't all on-site transportation considered complimentary? Meaning Disney is voluntarily offering it, and as such, not making a guest pay for travel? And since the guests are not directly paying for said transportation, they would therefore not be entitled to it? Is it mandated in legal code anywhere that Disney is required to transport guests from hotel to theme park, or can it be reasonable assumed that once you are at your hotel that it is your own responsibility to make travel arrangements to the park?

The way I'm interpreting it is this: Disney is legally required to make all necessary lodging accommodations to persons with disabilities who are staying in their hotel rooms, and to all park guests who purchase admission. I do not see how they are legally required to transport you between the two if they are not directly charging you a transportation fee. Is it poor customer service and bad for corporate image to deny any portion of your guest population an alternative option? Sure. Are they required to do so? I don't believe so.

But I'm just an armchair lawyer spitballing here. I have no legal basis or education to justify this stance and would love to hear an explanation or corrections fromsomeone who is actually a lawyer or has dealt with ADA Compliance law.

I know as DVC Members we all contribute to the costs of "transportation" through our dues (it is listed as a line item in the yearly cost breakdown). I would therefore assume that cost for transportation for hotel guests are also paid through the nightly rates charged to guests staying at on-site hotels. I've always thought that this is one reason that WDW hotels are more expensive than non WDW hotels. I'm not sure what ramifications this has toward your question regarding legal obligations but the WDW transportation system cannot be complimentary, it must e paid for by guests either through park tickets, hotels rates, DVC dues, etc.

 

[skier_pete]

I know as DVC Members we all contribute to the costs of "transportation" through our dues (it is listed as a line item in the yearly cost breakdown). I would therefore assume that cost for transportation for hotel guests are also paid through the nightly rates charged to guests staying at on-site hotels. I've always thought that this is one reason that WDW hotels are more expensive than non WDW hotels. I'm not sure what ramifications this has toward your question regarding legal obligations but the WDW transportation system cannot be complimentary, it must e paid for by guests either through park tickets, hotels rates, DVC dues, etc.

Right - I agree that DVC members pay for the transportation systems - it's part of the budget, and that part of the costs of hotel rooms are also used to cover the transportation system.

I am not really sure what the point of @DBDiz argument is, though. I think whether Disney is legally obligated to provide transport is a moot point. There are really only a few benefits to staying on-site, and transport is one of them. If WDW didn't provide transport to everyone (including folks with diabilities) they would rapidly start losing customers. The other main benefit - EMH - have been cut back so much they are barely a benefit. (You use to get 16 hours of EMH a week, now you get 9 hours.)

The bigger question to me is are they obligated to provide an alternative transport to the gondolas, if people stay at these resorts and don't want to ride them. I think the answer here is "No, they aren't." Seems like they need to just warn people when they book.

 

[OSUZorba]

True but we’ve also discussed how fail safe the gondola is against a full stop. Unlike the monorail which has to get towed

It's redundant, not fail safe, FYI. There are multiple means of powering the rope to clear it, but in a complete loss of power systems it will not move itself.

Air brakes are fail safe in that they require power to release, so a complete loss of power makes them fail fully closed, which is the safe position.

But the point remains, the likelihood of being stuck on the line for an extended period of time is extremely low.

 

[OSUZorba]

Does any one even know if the majority of people with acrophobia will actually have a problem with gondolas? We fly people with acrophobia in hot air balloons all the time, and people never have an issue with it once you actually get going.

As far as alternative transportation though, Breckenridge uses their gondola as a primary means of transportation to the mountain resorts and there is no free alternative.

 

[HopperFan]

Does any one even know if the majority of people with acrophobia will actually have a problem with gondolas? We fly people with acrophobia in hot air balloons all the time, and people never have an issue with it once you actually get going.

As far as alternative transportation though, Breckenridge uses their gondola as a primary means of transportation to the mountain resorts and there is no free alternative.

I have acrophobia as does my DS. I would say I am rational and often will be able to "deal". I can do roller coasters that go high because I am locked in, but if they stop, we have a huge problem if they plan to evacuate (luckily my stops were always resolved to move forward). I can look out high rise windows because they are sealed but need my space around me and don't touch me. I can finally stay in high floor hotel rooms with atriums but I hug the wall. I love hot air balloons, they fascinate me, I go to festivals BUT THERE IS NO WAY YOU WOULD EVER GET ME ON ONE, not even tethered. If someone says they have acrophobia and then proceed to get in a hot air balloon ............ I don't believe them.

That said I won't ride the gondolas ............. even though I have been on large cable cars and have done the Orlando Eye. The gondola cars are simply too small, without air AND Disney has a terrible record of emergency evacuation. I don't trust Disney ... and that is based on their own performance.

Will I stay at POP again ............ I have stayed 30-35+ times, I really like it there .......... but if the rates continue to climb I won't go back. If I get a reasonable room, sure I will. I will just drive to DHS/Epcot and take up a spot for free that they could have collected cash on. Other than MK driving is faster anyway.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The bigger question to me is are they obligated to provide an alternative transport to the gondolas, if people stay at these resorts and don't want to ride them. I think the answer here is "No, they aren't." Seems like they need to just warn people when they book.

I suppose the original question posed about if Disney is obliged to provide transportation would that impact their requirement to provide alternative transport ... that is, could they say "well, we don't have to provide transportation for anyone so therefore we don't need to provide an alternative for you"

But I don't think that is how it works - I think because they are providing this service to guests they would need to provide a comparable alternative (otherwise those guests are not getting a comparable experience they are paying for).

They question is, what is reasonably comparable? having Minnie Vans as an option? Saying you can take a bus to another park and transfer? etc. Is that reasonable or do they need an alternative direct mode? The fact they don't have an alternative direct mode for the monorail resorts to EPCOT makes me think that no, they don't

 

[Disneylover99]

They question is, what is reasonably comparable? having Minnie Vans as an option? Saying you can take a bus to another park and transfer? etc. Is that reasonable or do they need an alternative direct mode? The fact they don't have an alternative direct mode for the monorail resorts to EPCOT makes me think that no, they don't

But if the monorail has always been the only direct mode of transportation offered by these hotels, then the guest experience has always been the same. Nothing has been replaced or taken away from them.

Or maybe they used to have regular buses between the monorail resorts and Epcot. Does anyone know?

 

[Mome Rath]

The thing about phobias is that they are very individualistic; people may be scared of the same "thing" but the internal triggers can be different for each person, as well as the fear level. For some the fear of heights may only be when there is no separation between the person and the drop (think standing on the edge of the grand canyon vs. having a rail or "stop" of some kind in front of them like in a hot air balloon) vs. someone who is scared of heights period (it doesn't matter if they are strapped in five hundred different ways).

Anywho, I still maintain the free transportation is there, it may just not be as direct. There is nothing stating Disney has to time out the transportation options to keep them literally and statically equal... that's unreasonable accommodation. There are still both paid and free options. I'm sure we will get clarification once the gondolas actually start running.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

But if the monorail has always been the only direct mode of transportation offered by these hotels, then the guest experience has always been the same. Nothing has been replaced or taken away from them.

Or maybe they used to have regular buses between the monorail resorts and Epcot. Does anyone know?

I don't believe so - actually, when EPCOT was first built I think the only hotels were still the monorail resorts (and campgrounds) so not sure the extent of buses in genearl


To be a big thing is that there are also alternative comparable lodging options. If you truly won't ride in the gondola and can only afford value, then there are the All Stars, for example, that provide comparable accommodations

Now, if for a specific date the only value that had availability was POP and you wouldn't ride in the gondolas then I would hope Disney would try to accommodate that by letting you stay at a moderate for no extra cost or something

 

[jknezek]

I don't believe so - actually, when EPCOT was first built I think the only hotels were still the monorail resorts (and campgrounds) so not sure the extent of buses in genearl


To be a big thing is that there are also alternative comparable lodging options. If you truly won't ride in the gondola and can only afford value, then there are the All Stars, for example, that provide comparable accommodations

Now, if for a specific date the only value that had availability was POP and you wouldn't ride in the gondolas then I would hope Disney would try to accommodate that by letting you stay at a moderate for no extra cost or something

Good lord I hope Disney doesn't try and open that can of worms. I can just see the abuse now.

 

[skier_pete]

I will just drive to DHS/Epcot and take up a spot for free that they could have collected cash on. Other than MK driving is faster anyway.

Ah, but they will get your cash anyways now that they charge for resort parking!

 

[Disneylover99]

Now, if for a specific date the only value that had availability was POP and you wouldn't ride in the gondolas then I would hope Disney would try to accommodate that by letting you stay at a moderate for no extra cost or something

I wouldn’t expect Disney to upgrade people from values to moderates because of the Gondola. That would be pricey for Disney, but I’m sure that could happen. I can see them offering an Uber/Minnie van voucher to complainers, but even that could get pricey, which makes me think keeping a bus, even if it’s shared between Pop and AofA, might be a reasonable option.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Good lord I hope Disney doesn't try and open that can of worms. I can just see the abuse now.

I wouldn’t expect Disney to upgrade people from values to moderates because of the Gondola. That would be pricey for Disney, but I’m sure that could happen. I can see them offering an Uber/Minnie van voucher to complainers, but even that could get pricey, which makes me think keeping a bus, even if it’s shared between Pop and AofA, might be a reasonable option.

Just a thought of something someone could state that there aren't reasonable alternatives if the only Values with availability were on the gondola path

and I do know some people who were bumped up to a Deluxe from a Moderate due to the construction at the moderate they were booked at (and the reduction of services/food court/etc) that would make staying there impractical/impossible for them due to a medical condition - and no other moderates rooms available that could accommodate a family of 5. They were going to have to cancel their trip due to this so Disney did upgrade them - so not unheard of

 

[skier_pete]

INow, if for a specific date the only value that had availability was POP and you wouldn't ride in the gondolas then I would hope Disney would try to accommodate that by letting you stay at a moderate for no extra cost or something

Good lord I hope Disney doesn't try and open that can of worms. I can just see the abuse now.

I agree - they aren't going to go there. I really don't think they are going to run a bus for people either - the point of the gondola system is to reduce the bus system.

I have had a phobia of piers/docks/boats most of my life. I have it mostly under control, and so I can use the boat transportation. If it were worse though - I wouldn't expect Beach Club to arrange a bus for me to go to DHS. I would feel the same way if I chose to stay at a Gondola resort and wouldn't ride the gondola - it's my problem to find an alternative.

My biggest worry/wonder is how are they going to handle storms that might shut down the system. It will be difficult for them to mobilize extra buses for one, and with the IG I can't imagine them saying "Oh yeah, we've shut down the gondola, so now you have to walk to the front of the park in a downpour to wait for a bus that will take us an hour to arrange." It makes me wonder if they'll run the gondolas in almost anything.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I agree - they aren't going to go there. I really don't think they are going to run a bus for people either - the point of the gondola system is to reduce the bus system.

I have had a phobia of piers/docks/boats most of my life. I have it mostly under control, and so I can use the boat transportation. If it were worse though - I wouldn't expect Beach Club to arrange a bus for me to go to DHS. I would feel the same way if I chose to stay at a Gondola resort and wouldn't ride the gondola - it's my problem to find an alternative.

I fully agree - but my point was, what if there are not alternatives? Will they just tell you to say off site? Maybe a small problem, but clearly we are pretty far down the rabbit hole of scenarios in this thread

My biggest worry/wonder is how are they going to handle storms that might shut down the system. It will be difficult for them to mobilize extra buses for one, and with the IG I can't imagine them saying "Oh yeah, we've shut down the gondola, so now you have to walk to the front of the park in a downpour to wait for a bus that will take us an hour to arrange." It makes me wonder if they'll run the gondolas in almost anything.

I would think they would design the system so that it can function in the same weather as the monorail. So, yes, some conditions may come up when nearly all transportation is shut down, but I really don't think they will shut for minor storms

 

[jknezek]

My biggest worry/wonder is how are they going to handle storms that might shut down the system. It will be difficult for them to mobilize extra buses for one, and with the IG I can't imagine them saying "Oh yeah, we've shut down the gondola, so now you have to walk to the front of the park in a downpour to wait for a bus that will take us an hour to arrange." It makes me wonder if they'll run the gondolas in almost anything.

They could always go back to running the parking tram from the IG area if they shut down the gondola. I can't really see them doing this, but it is a tested form of transport that will fit on those paths and can run in the rain, even if it hasn't been used in what? Almost 20 years?

 

[HopperFan]

Ah, but they will get your cash anyways now that they charge for resort parking!

True, but still doesn't negate a loss in a park income that is bound to be popular after next year.

But the most likely .... I will be offsite taking my money elsewhere AND parking for free at park with my AP. January I was at POP ... but April, July, September all booked offsite now. Money spent on Disney property dropped considerably.