Disappointed

[Pea-n-Me]

Please. She married him as a chewer. Clearly not a turn off for her. Can’t imagine how you could think pointing out something she doesn’t feel might be helpful.

When I first posted, none of us had any idea about their history with this.

Those questions were answered afterward.

So stop making things up.

 

[jrmasm]

When I first posted, none of us had any idea about their history with this.

Those questions were answered afterward.

So stop making things up.

It was clear from the OP that he didn’t start chewing recently for the first time. So it’s pretty clear that at some point in their relationship she was not turned off by him will he was a chewer. I’m not the one making things up.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

It was clear from the OP that he didn’t start chewing recently for the first time. So it’s pretty clear that at some point in their relationship she was not turned off by him will he was a chewer. I’m not the one making things up.

Conjecture.

 

[jaiminee krikit]

You're not overreacting at all. I yell at DH when he doesn't put sunscreen on because I've had skin cancer multiple times and I don't want anyone else to go through what I've gone through (and mine was minor).
But he has to want to quit. My step-father's mother passed away from lung cancer. She had 1/4 of a lung left when she passed. My parents watched her suffer. That still couldn't make either of them quit smoking. Then, many years later, my mom just quit. She had tried everything including medications. She would try and something would trigger her to go back. My step-father, on the other hand, says he wants to quit but he can't. And every time he lights up a cigarette my mom complains. It makes his trying to quit impossible.

 

[lisaviolet]

Apparently he had an overwhelming urge 2 weeks ago and bought a can. He's really ashamed and upset at himself. I told him he's allowed to have weaknesses and that I have faith in him.

MamaBelle, I've been thinking about your thread.

You say he's upset with himself, does he talk openly at all about giving it up again?

My head really goes back and forth on this. Originally I thought and liked posts where people were acknowledging that one has to want to quit. And that's where my head was at. But for some reason I'm wondering about sitting down and really expressing your sadness and anger about what losing him would mean to you, in the most harsh and realistic manner. Of how you would feel and how hard it would be without him.

I don't want to say too much, as I let out too much of my personal life on here but I do have an example of expressing anger/frustration changing another's life. Every other loved one around him was professing "it's his choice" and letting it be. I left that alone and went full force. He listened to me, and it was a massive decision with a positive slant. And if he had not listened, at least I was clear that I had given it a go.

So what would be the problem with giving it a go with your husband? And then leaving him to sit in it/contemplate it. And that's that. The man loves you, so it's not like it would cause any huge issue. And you never know.

Anyway, for whatever reason I have had your issue on my mind.

 

[MamaBelle4]

You say he's upset with himself, does he talk openly at all about giving it up again?

Yes, he does. He wants to give it up cold turkey like last time.

But for some reason I'm wondering about sitting down and really expressing your sadness and anger about what losing him would mean to you, in the most harsh and realistic manner. Of how you would feel and how hard it would be without him.

I did, tearfully, discuss this with him. Then for the first time, I saw one of the tobacco commercials that focused on throat cancer. The woman had to have a large part of her jaw removed. I talked to him about that too. I know it isn't much, but he hasn't had any for the past two days.

Anyway, for whatever reason I have had your issue on my mind.

Thank you, very much.[/QUOTE]

 

[lisaviolet]

I did, tearfully, discuss this with him. Then for the first time, I saw one of the tobacco commercials that focused on throat cancer. The woman had to have a large part of her jaw removed. I talked to him about that too. I know it isn't much, but he hasn't had any for the past two days.

He could be quietly contemplating every single thing you said, as you probably already know. Here's hoping.

 

[ronandannette]

Yes, he does. He wants to give it up cold turkey like last time.

I did, tearfully, discuss this with him. Then for the first time, I saw one of the tobacco commercials that focused on throat cancer. The woman had to have a large part of her jaw removed. I talked to him about that too. I know it isn't much, but he hasn't had any for the past two days.

Thank you, very much.

That is sobering - was it from chewing tobacco? It honestly never occurred to me as something a woman would do at all. I've never know or heard of a woman doing it.

 

[MamaBelle4]

That is sobering - was it from chewing tobacco?

I'm not sure, I believe it was from smoking.

 

[mjkacmom]

It was clear from the OP that he didn’t start chewing recently for the first time. So it’s pretty clear that at some point in their relationship she was not turned off by him will he was a chewer. I’m not the one making things up.

I smoked for 7 years of our relationship, DH didn’t like it at all.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

It is a very good discussion here. Because use of this has sort of come back around again. Yes, women are doing it. And it is prevalent in certain areas. Baseball players use it, and many young people. They think it's better than smoking cigarettes. So it's important that the message about what it is, and what type of damage it can cause, gets out there. Children are educated in school health classes to its dangers today, which is good.

As I mentioned before, Curt Schilling's message hit the baseball community a few years back when he developed oral cancer. I followed his story.

But I remember a story from way back in the 1980-90s (anyone remember it from Reader's Digest?) which was the first time I'd heard about it. That was the story of teenage track star Sean Marsee, below.

(All those medals pinned on him are his track teammates' medals that they won without him due to his illness and surgeries. They came to his living room and pinned them on him after the Win. This was one of the last pictures (if not the last picture) taken of Sean. He died shortly afterward, at 19.) Sean remains the symbol of why not to use smokeless tobacco. As painful as it is to read and think about, please read it and pass the message. This is what his family wants.

Here is Sean's story:

http://whyquit.com/whyquit/SeanMarsee.html

This is Sean's younger brother, Jason Marsee. He goes to schools and other places to talk about smokeless tobacco. One of the most important messages I think he has to say is about the number of carcinogenic chemicals that are in it, and how tobacco companies market this product to young people. But you can also hear, loud and clearly, his love for Sean coming through. Please watch this, too. For Sean.

And because pictures are worth a thousand words:

 

[Pea-n-Me]

MamaBelle4, I know here I am just one of many posters. But IRL I am a cardiac nurse, and part of what I do for a living is educate people to health issues. I have to have these types of conversations with people who've had major health events - face to face, day after day. After 30-plus years, I've gotten pretty good at it. My patients and their loved ones thank me genuinely, even if and when what I have to say is difficult to hear. They often say they didn't really have a good understanding of things before. So I enjoy helping them understand. It's why I love what I do. Thank you for realizing that I am not coming from a place of judgement, but one of caring.

On this forum, it's difficult sometimes. If I feel I have information that can help people, I'm apt to say it, because I want to help. (And I'm sure this is very true of others, too.) Lately, though, it's getting more and more that I choose not to respond. Because responses are picked apart. And criticized. We even witnessed a personal attack on me yesterday because someone didn't like what I said. Next time something comes up, I can pretty much guarantee - I'll hesitate, and say to myself, "Don't get involved", which is pretty sad, because it may just be the information someone needs.

So again, I truly hope that this thread was worthwhile, and that it helps your husband find his way to stopping once and for all. There is nothing worse than getting a cancer diagnosis and it coming from something that you knew could cause cancer. People talk to me a lot about their regrets when they are close to dying, and needless to say, that's always a big one. They also want more time. If not for themselves, for their families, who are often begging them to continue to fight, even when they're ready to go. It's hard for them. But being the one to undergo surgeries, take the drugs, be in the hospital, experience all the emotions, etc., takes a toll after a while. And at that point, there's no changing things. It is what it is. It actually haunts me, myself, sometimes, because I care about them, their families, and their emotions, just as I do you, even though we don't know eachother very well.

For the record, I'm not perfect myself. I think my patients like that about me. I'm willing to share with them that I've had my own health issues and demons to overcome, too - like many, if not most of us, do. I'm not just standing there lecturing them. I'm giving them information they need to take care of themselves.

I started to write this the other day, but wound up not including it. I'll try again. So maybe we can eliminate the factor.

I started smoking cigarettes at a ridiculously young age. (Eleven, to be exact. I know I'm not alone in this as I've seen others here say the same thing. Many of us grew up in different times.) I came from a family of heavy smokers. Cigarettes were both plentiful and readily available in my house. My parents bought cartons at a time, in different brands. So I'd grab a few packs and off my friends and I would go to smoke. By the time I was 16, I was fully addicted and even had a nice smoker's cough, just like everyone else in my family (except my sister, who never smoked - although she was subjected to lots of second hand smoke, too). We could smoke at work, and I did. But one week, I got a bad chest cold, and it hurt to smoke, so I stopped. For some reason, I decided not to smoke anymore. Honestly, I can't remember why. I think I knew, even at 16, that it was really bad for me, watching my father hack up phlegm all the time, and everyone at home coughing, the walls in the house yellow, etc. It was also around the time that the Surgeon General's campaign against smoking was taking off in full swing.

So I haven't smoked since then. But guess what, I still dream about smoking regularly, all these years later. (Yes, that addiction is strong!) In my dreams, I know that if I have even one cigarette, or buy a pack, I'll become addicted again. Sometimes I am smoking that one, or the pack is in my pants pocket. (!) And the dream turns into kind of a nightmare. I wake up feeling defeated. I also still enjoy the whiff of fresh smoke after a cigarette is first lit. Because despite the negatives, I still have some positive memories associated with smoking. However, the smell of stale smoke or smoke on a person actually makes me feel sick, because there are many not good memories with that. My father died of cardiopulmonary disease at 66. There are so many things, as an adult, I want to ask him about, or talk to him about, or share with him, but that ship has long ago sailed. He never met any of his grandchildren. He never saw me graduate from college, get married, or many other things. He asked me before he died to take care of my mother, and I'm still doing so - she's 92. (With mild COPD, though she stopped smoking when she came to live with me twenty some-odd years ago.)

My brother stopped smoking when he was 50. He successfully used nicotine gum. I honestly never thought he'd be able to do it. Imagine my surprise when recently he came to my house and hugged me, he almost knocked me out with the smell of stale cigarette smoke! Turns out his girlfriend smokes, and does so around him, even in the car. I am praying he doesn't start again. He is approaching the age of when our father died, and history often repeats itself in families, so I am worried. He worked so hard to quit, and it wasn't easy. Fingers crossed.

 

[georgina]

I am well aware of the addictive power of nicotine. My DH still uses the lozenges 30 years after quitting smoking. It's expensive, but better than smoking. I've resigned myself to the fact that he can't shake it. He managed to lose weight when he needed to to be a better scuba diver, and I struggle with weight issues.

I can't stand the smell of cigarette smoke, and told him when we first went out I would not date a smoker. He quit, then went back to it after several years, tried to lie to me about it. Seriously? Your clothes smell, your hair smells, your car smells, lying is a betrayal of trust. It's better now that we have decided to let it be what it is.

My sister recently had lung cancer (never smoked). Its incidence in women who have no risk factors is growing. Hers showed up on a thyroid scan, and was stage 1 thank goodness.

 

[MamaBelle4]

Though we do not know each other well, I always enjoy reading your responses to threads because I've always felt you are an incredibly compassionate person. And your responses are always well thought out. I knew that you weren't being judgmental, just offering a different perspective.

Lately, though, it's getting more and more that I choose not to respond. Because responses are picked apart. And criticized.

I've certainly noticed that too. I've typed replies to several threads, then sit back and think, nope, not worth the headache.

My father died of cardiopulmonary disease at 66.

I am so sorry for your loss. This is a fear that I have for my parents as well. Both are heavy smokers. My dad has dormant TB (he's had it his whole life), plus emphysema and juvenile diabetes. He is 69.

He never met any of his grandchildren. He never saw me graduate from college, get married, or many other things. He asked me before he died to take care of my mother, and I'm still doing so - she's 92. (With mild COPD, though she stopped smoking when she came to live with me twenty some-odd years ago.)

These are the thoughts that keep me up at night. DH is 34. If he gets back into the habit again and can't fight out of it, how much is he going to miss watching our children grow? How much are they going to have taken from them? He has four little girls to walk down the aisle someday (maybe? My oldest has said, "I don't want to grow up and get married. I just want to get a dog, like Aunt A"). Goodness, I'm tearing up. I worry so much by nature. You're a wonderful daughter for caring for your mom and I hope her (mostly!) good health continues!

He worked so hard to quit, and it wasn't easy

Good for your brother too!!

Thank you for sharing your and your family history with me. DH actually started smoking when he was a young teen. He quit, then when he turned 18, he bought a can just because he legally could. Then he did that for the next 12 or so years.

He's determined to quit and has told me he will try whatever it takes if he can't quit on his own like the last time.

 

[lisaviolet]

And because pictures are worth a thousand words:

Yes they are. And like I have already posted, my father showed zero interest in quitting until he saw those pictures.

He ended up dying of cancer, but it was a primary cancer that is prevalent - probably a very poor word but there are strong ties - in firefighters and not well-known to be because of smoking. But I have no doubt that we would have lost him much earlier if he didn't quit smoking so early in life.

On this forum, it's difficult sometimes. If I feel I have information that can help people, I'm apt to say it, because I want to help. (And I'm sure this is very true of others, too.) Lately, though, it's getting more and more that I choose not to respond. Because responses are picked apart. And criticized.

First, I am right there with you. I feel like I can't write a thing these days on here. There has been a shift. The issue I have is that it seems like you can't carry two opposing viewpoints in your own thoughts on here - forget about it! But then again cognitive dissonance is dying in our countries in general. So why wouldn't it here.

A friend said to me the other day, as I was going on about something, "Why the hell do you go on there Lisa? Especially when you have so much going on. You do it to yourself." She may be right. But that's sad.

Anyway, when you originally posted Pea-n-Me, I completely understood where you were going with it all. Simply trying to find a different angle to entice him to quit. That's all. I didn't post because I didn't want to add more fuel to it all, but I should have. I got how the other poster felt it would feel like as well, but absolutely understood why you brought it up. And completely understood the angle.

And as an aside, years ago I used to read a lot of Dan Savage. He's an openly gay advice columnist. On the issue of relaying things to one's partner/spouse etc. about appearance he was all for compassionately addressing issues about attraction. But did admit that gay men were a totally different breed in this area. I remember finding the discussion/debate about it all fascinating. I would be horrified myself and overly sensitive, but still found the the discussion interesting.

These are the thoughts that keep me up at night.

I can imagine. Especially when we are reading and seeing so much heartache in people's lives.

He's determined to quit and has told me he will try whatever it takes if he can't quit on his own like the last time.

 

[Pamlur]

I stopped smoking 16 years ago, after smoking way too many years. I am so thankful that apparently stress isn't a trigger for me; I have lost my son, my husband, and more recently my mother. After my husband's death I had to battle with my step-son over the company they owned together, and ended up buying him out and going in to run a company that I knew nothing about (I have found wonderful people who DO know about it, and we are thriving, thank goodness). None of those stressors caused me to even consider needing a cigarette. When I do think about one is when we are having a big family dinner, and the noise level escalates; I think because I would then go off to another room and light a cigarette.

I am still expecting to start symptoms of COPD, but so far so good.

 

[ronandannette]

The police receive thousands of nuisance calls each year. People be cray cray.

As a smoker who developed life threatening asthma from my habit, I could go into any emergency or walk in clinic and get an inhaler or even a prescription for steroids. I probably would have died without my inhaler in those days. People who get cancer and heart disease from their smoking addiction are treated in hospitals.

This is a good article which explains safe injection sites may help understand how invaluable they are: https://www.vox.com/science-and-hea...4/safe-injection-sites-heroin-opioid-epidemic

Off-topic for this thread (sorry @MamaBelle4 ) but I will never, and I mean NEVER support the theory of harm-reduction. Where I live, in a city of over 1,000,000 there are exactly 12 publicly funded, medically supervised detox beds and 6, yes 6, longer-term rehab beds. Meaningful help for addicts genuinely wanting it and having a shot at getting clean is basically inaccessible. In the meantime, millions of tax dollars fund safe-shooting sites and noloxone that keep hopeless addicts alive long enough to find their next hit. Active addicts decimate their loved ones and pose a serious threat to community safety. Drug use is responsible for practically 100% of the violent crime in our city. Harm-reduction is a ludicrous and completely unacceptable strategy.

And if you're wondering, this is not some "ivory tower" opinion. I've been closely affected by drug abuse from several different angles. My husband and I are deeply committed with both volunteer time and substantial charitable dollars to not-for-profit recovery organizations.

 

[Smbmoyers]

As a smoker whose been clean for two years I can assure you that nicotine urge never goes away. I had friends in three weekends ago and smoked a pack. I am lucky enough to be the type of person that can quit after one pack anymore.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

Off-topic for this thread (sorry @MamaBelle4 ) but I will never, and I mean NEVER support the theory of harm-reduction. Where I live, in a city of over 1,000,000 there are exactly 12 publicly funded, medically supervised detox beds and 6, yes 6, longer-term rehab beds. Meaningful help for addicts genuinely wanting it and having a shot at getting clean is basically inaccessible. In the meantime, millions of tax dollars fund safe-shooting sites and noloxone that keep hopeless addicts alive long enough to find their next hit. Active addicts decimate their loved ones and pose a serious threat to community safety. Drug use is responsible for practically 100% of the violent crime in our city. Harm-reduction is a ludicrous and completely unacceptable strategy.

And if you're wondering, this is not some "ivory tower" opinion. I've been closely affected by drug abuse from several different angles. My husband and I are deeply committed with both volunteer time and substantial charitable dollars to not-for-profit recovery organizations.

Not having enough publicly funded detox beds does not negate the need for harm reduction. However, I see we will never agree on which addicts deserve recovery and help and which ones are considered "hopeless" and undeserving of life.

A very good friend of mine runs a long term drug rehab facility in my city. Drug addicts come from all walks of life and some from very good homes with loving parents. It could be your child or mine, you just never know. Can you imagine if we treated smokers with life threatening health issues the same way? Hopeless and undeserving of health care, a drain on the taxpayers and insurance companies and being refused medical help unless they quit smoking?

 

[ronandannette]

Not having enough publicly funded detox beds does not negate the need for harm reduction. However, I see we will never agree on which addicts deserve recovery and help and which ones are considered "hopeless" and undeserving of life.

A very good friend of mine runs a long term drug rehab facility in my city. Drug addicts come from all walks of life and some from very good homes with loving parents. It could be your child or mine, you just never know. Can you imagine if we treated smokers with life threatening health issues the same way? Hopeless and undeserving of health care, a drain on the taxpayers and insurance companies and being refused medical help unless they quit smoking?

Yes, I DO know. And I've seen many parent's precious children afflicted up close. Every single one of those parents want their children actually treated for the addiction, even if it means locking them up, rather than hugged and given a popcicle after injecting death into their veins in a warm, softly-lit enclosure while cartoons play on tv screens. (Yes, this is the atmosphere at our safe-shooting site.) Those same parents are not allowed into that facility to intervene while their kids are there. It's simply insane and I do agree you and I are not likely to ever see it eye to eye.

ETA: As to your 2nd point about smokers, I can only speak for Canada where health care is very different than in the US. Here there is no publicly funded health care assistance for smoking cessation beyond a doctor's advice and perhaps volunteer support groups. Medication and nicotine-replacement therapies must be purchased OOP, and are most often excluded from coverage by supplemental heath insurance. Alternate methods like laser, hypnotherapy and acupuncture would never be covered. And whether you believe it or not, given that access here is based on limited availability, rationing is inevitable and active smokers are disqualified for eligibility to many types of procedures where it will negatively affect the outcome.