Death of relationships.

[Gumbo4x4]

I've seen that too... but to be fair, abuse isn't the only form of mistreatment and women my age often feel very taken advantage of, especially if the division of household and child-rearing responsibilities is very out of balance (as studies show it still is most of the time). Most of the middle aged women I know who left basically good men did so after years of feeling like a doormat or a household servant and many futile attempts to agitate for a better balance at home, and they did so not out of any sense of midlife crisis but because they got through years and years by thinking "It'll get easier when... (the baby sleeps through the night/the kids are potty trained/the youngest starts school/the oldest can help with the driving) and finally realized it isn't going to change.

I know the household division of labor is still not equal in many homes, but I also know many women who take on the martyr role, insisting on doing the job and then complaining that they have "no help". And if that's really the reason they're leaving, perhaps some therapy for them both is a better choice than divorce.

Because even if she's doing 100% of the household chores now, she's still doing 100% when she's on her own.

 

[georgina]

I did not feel pressured in the 80's to get married. (I was strongly encouraged to go to college, although I had to pay for it on my own, but not to get married.) My 27 YO DD got married a year and a half ago, and many of her friends also got married within the past 2 years. On the other hand, my 25 YO son has never been on a date and has shown no interest in dating anyone (of either sex).

My 22 YO DD has had a few relationships, but has not found someone who was interested in long term or compatible. She is young yet, but older DD was dating her current H by age 20. She is in the tech world, so surrounded by young men, we'll see what happens. I think there is a lot of immaturity still in the younger guys

 

[Colleen27]

You're right that the load is never even and it is never going to change. However, that is no reason to leave a perfectly good man and shoulder the entire load alone.

I'm not saying it is a logical or entirely reasonable response, only that the resentment builds up over time and can "break" otherwise functional relationship. When one person feels like they're the only one giving of themselves, the relationship will suffer. The comments I've heard from friends have been along the lines of "One less person making demands." and "If I'm doing it all, why not do it all on my own?" with a feeling that maybe somewhere down the line there will be a chance at a "better" relationship, even if that relationship is only dating on one's own terms rather than dealing with the demands and compromises of marriage.

And there are moments when I really get it... when I get home 5 minutes before my husband and he comes through the door, asks what's for dinner, complains that the kids have cluttered up the coffee table in front of "his" spot, and settles in to watch TV when I'd like nothing more than to do the same instead of dealing with homework, dinner, and kids' activities. Sometimes it feels like more trouble than it is worth to push back and tell him to help out instead of just complaining. But for us, it is a transition (I've been an at-home mom for 16.5 years and have only been back to work for 3 weeks). If it went on like this for years as a matter of course? I wouldn't stick it out and keep trying to renegotiate the terms forever either.

 

[Southernmiss]

I'm not saying it is a logical or entirely reasonable response, only that the resentment builds up over time and can "break" otherwise functional relationship. When one person feels like they're the only one giving of themselves, the relationship will suffer. The comments I've heard from friends have been along the lines of "One less person making demands." and "If I'm doing it all, why not do it all on my own?" with a feeling that maybe somewhere down the line there will be a chance at a "better" relationship, even if that relationship is only dating on one's own terms rather than dealing with the demands and compromises of marriage.

And there are moments when I really get it... when I get home 5 minutes before my husband and he comes through the door, asks what's for dinner, complains that the kids have cluttered up the coffee table in front of "his" spot, and settles in to watch TV when I'd like nothing more than to do the same instead of dealing with homework, dinner, and kids' activities. Sometimes it feels like more trouble than it is worth to push back and tell him to help out instead of just complaining. But for us, it is a transition (I've been an at-home mom for 16.5 years and have only been back to work for 3 weeks). If it went on like this for years as a matter of course? I wouldn't stick it out and keep trying to renegotiate the terms forever either.

Amen, sister.

Dh helps and is a good guy, but there are times when I totally get 'it would be easier if I did it all by myself'. We've been married 27 years.

I've been on line Christmas shopping and in person shopping for the past week.

I asked him to spend 20 minutes with me looking on line for at an idea I had for a birthday gift for his dad and got push back. Argh! Of course, he wants me to just do it myself...he's hoping if he complains I'll give up.

Back on topic. Ds 23 got married in August. In their circle, it seems everyone is getting married. All are recent college graduates. Dh and his wife have spent several weekends the last year going to weddings.

I have to admit, I've wondered how long all the marriages will last.

 

[Colleen27]

I know the household division of labor is still not equal in many homes, but I also know many women who take on the martyr role, insisting on doing the job and then complaining that they have "no help".

I know women like that, and I know men who deliberately screw up chores they dislike just so they're not asked to do them. And you're right, therapy might help with those kinds of manipulations if both people are willing.

 

[punkin]

So my DD25 is engaged and DD19 doesn't date at all and (at least at this point) refuses to even consider eventual marriage. I don't know if that even means anything.

 

[tcufrog]

My older sister doesn’t date, never married and the closest thing she has to kids are her students and two cats. She adores her nephews though. I got married when I was 25 and have been married for 15 years. I am currently a SAHM but my dh does contribute. If he didn’t and wasn’t an involved father I don’t know if we’d still be married. I’m glad he’s that way since the last few months have been rough due to my knee injury and subsequent surgery.

I have friends who complain about their husbands never helping and just creating extra work for them. I act supportive but secretly wonder why they put up with it. One of my friends who complains about that is studying to become an accountant. She claims she’s leaving him once she finishes and has a job.

 

[loves to dive]

My honey and I have been living together (not married)for 25 years so I guess we believe in committed relationships.

 

[Christine]

I do have to say that I have to agree about chemistry. No, you can't tell from one date if a person is compatible with you in every way. But, if there's no spark, it's not likely there ever will be.

And I think that's how really some people think. Heck maybe it's true for some. In my history, there have been guys that I've been instantly attracted to and had an immediate spark with, which later fizzled due to their personalities. In fact, I can look back and think "How did I ever think he was attractive." Another part of my experience is that I had no attraction to some whatsoever (even as far as thinking the guy was kind of ugly) but once I spent some time with them they became attractive to me because they were funny, witty, smart, or all of the above. I do think women are more generous in that regard whereas men really put a lot more on physical appearance. Not all men, of course. But I think if anyone is out in the dating pool right now, they are doing a disservice if they ditch someone at one date because they don't feel the spark but all other things are great. That's what is said in this dating lab article. Some of them have great fun, good conversation, etc. Now, if the person is an obnoxious, overbearing jerk that's quite another matter.

 

[amberpi]

You're right that the load is never even and it is never going to change. However, that is no reason to leave a perfectly good man and shoulder the entire load alone.

I had a ton less to do when I was divorced and only having to deal with my own mess. I could leave my house spotless on Monday am and come home on Thursday to a pig sty. Divorce made my life easier in a zillion ways.

Regarding chemistry, if I go out with a perfectly nice guy, but can't ever imagine being intimate with them, I don't go on a second date. I'm ok (mostly, some days are worse than others...lol!) with being alone and picky. I don't have kids though and am so thankful for that.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

The first time I met dh he was drunk off his butt at a party (I was a designated driver so I was sober.) and tried to hit on me very ineptly. I wasn't impressed at all to put it mildly. We later became friends and he eventually asked me out. I said yes because he offered to cook me dinner and that's not common in college. If I had insisted on instant Disney princess movie chemistry we never would have gotten together. I think social media has encouraged unrealistic expectations in all aspects of life. People brag without showing the daily reality.

I think there’s a huge difference when somebody is in your social circle. You might find them odd or not date material but as you run into them and interact in various social settings you become friends etc.

Once you’re past college and gone through your friend pool and on to online or setup dating it’s totally different. If you don’t find somebody attractive or if you find them odd there aren’t that many scenarios to see the other side. You’d have to keep going to out with them one on one and making awkward conversation to see if something eventually sparks. That’s exhausting and really draining for an if.

I don’t think most people are looking for Disney princess in 5 min. As you say. Just somebody they have easy conversation with and some inkling of physical attraction to.

 

[Christine]

I hate that feature. Seriously! What spark can you have after only one date? My DH was a complete dufus on our first date...he got better with age. Lol.

Ha, you should read today's Date Lab? The guy was looking for someone who agreed with him that Disney vacations were not for adults!! I had to laugh out load on that one.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I know women like that, and I know men who deliberately screw up chores they dislike just so they're not asked to do them. And you're right, therapy might help with those kinds of manipulations if both people are willing.

Are the men deliberately scewing up, or merely handling the chore "their way" which their wives view as doing it "wrong"?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

And I think that's how really some people think. Heck maybe it's true for some. In my history, there have been guys that I've been instantly attracted to and had an immediate spark with, which later fizzled due to their personalities. In fact, I can look back and think "How did I ever think he was attractive." Another part of my experience is that I had no attraction to some whatsoever (even as far as thinking the guy was kind of ugly) but once I spent some time with them they became attractive to me because they were funny, witty, smart, or all of the above. I do think women are more generous in that regard whereas men really put a lot more on physical appearance. Not all men, of course. But I think if anyone is out in the dating pool right now, they are doing a disservice if they ditch someone at one date because they don't feel the spark but all other things are great. That's what is said in this dating lab article. Some of them have great fun, good conversation, etc. Now, if the person is an obnoxious, overbearing jerk that's quite another matter.

Well, I think if there isn't at least some physical attraction, there probably isn't going to be a first date to begin with, unless it's a setup or blind date. I just don't think that there's much point in having a second date if you don't click on the first. If you're bored on a first date or don't find yourself looking back on it fondly, there probably isn't anything there. You are right about men in general being hung up on looks.

 

[luvsJack]

Dd is 19 and engaged. She will be 20 when they marry. He is 23.

She was having a conversation with her future MIL and told her that she doesn't believe in divorce for herself. She is committed to this future marriage (proud of her but I can't take credit for it that's just the way she is). Her 51 year old future mil was shocked. And even had some things to say about marriages not working out.

To me that just shows how many think of marriage as something that's easy to just throw away. And I say this as someone who was divorced and realizes there are things that make divorce a necessary evil. Luckily her bf says the same thing. Dh once jokingly called him his "future ex sil" and he just said "no sir, I found the right one and am only doing this once".

Of course perhaps the divorce rate is the very reason a lot of folks don't want to commit. They see how much people go through getting divorced and they may just be scared of it happening to them.

 

[PollyannaMom]

Are the men deliberately scewing up, or merely handling the chore "their way" which their wives view as doing it "wrong"?

I'm sure there are some of each, but I think probably more of the "their way" explanation than the deliberate deception one. I do remember it being hard to give up control of some things I'd always done when I went back to work. Change is hard, even when it's for the best.

 

[georgina]

I don't like the way DH loads the dishwasher, so I just fix it later. I was a SAHM for many years and did most of the household chores other than what we had the kids do, now that he is retired I still do most of the cleaning and laundry, but I am not really much of a neat freak so it's not much work!

 

[amberpi]

Dd is 19 and engaged. She will be 20 when they marry. He is 23.

I don't actually know anyone IRL that's gotten married that young! I wish her luck though. It's amazing to me when I hear stories of people getting married so young! At 19, I was getting my degree, working on LSAT/GRE prep, partying, politics,and men. I definitely wasn't very serious about much of anything.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I'm sure there are some of each, but I think probably more of the "their way" explanation than the deliberate deception one. I do remember it being hard to give up control of some things I'd always done when I went back to work. Change is hard, even when it's for the best.

DW likes to whine about having "no help" with laundry, cooking, and cleaning. But, she likes being in control more than she wants the help. I combine loads she thinks are separate (like blue, green, and purple). She doesn't want to wait for dinner (I get home at least 2 hours later than her), and wants to eat what SHE feels like eating, not what I feel like cooking. And 95% of the clutter around here is hers and she does NOT like me cleaning it up.

She's okay with how the rest of us do dishes, vacuum, and clean the bathrooms, so we (mostly me) try to get that part done.

I don't want her cutting grass. She does it "wrong". But, I don't whine about the lack of help. She does a lousy job washing the car, but she does it in her bikini. So, I wish she'd do that more often, lousy job or not!

 

[gillep]

I don't actually know anyone IRL that's gotten married that young! I wish her luck though. It's amazing to me when I hear stories of people getting married so young! At 19, I was getting my degree, working on LSAT/GRE prep, partying, politics,and men. I definitely wasn't very serious about much of anything.

I got married at 23, and there are certainly some upsides with getting married young, and some huge downsides. I was the only person in my friend group to be married for MANY years. I was just finishing up my graduate degree, and had to go back to the lab Tuesday afternoon after getting married that Sunday.

We have been married 9 years now and have grown so much in that time, I can certainly see how some people who get married young could grow apart in that time. DH and I have very different interests and personalities, but have very similar backgrounds and core values, and I think that helps us to stay grounded with one another. I am very thankful that we are mostly on the same page regarding the 'big things', we have made a couple large moves for each of our jobs, so I know how incredibly lucky I am to have a partner who is willing to uproot his life and career when a great opportunity for my career has come up, and vice versa, as many of our family and friends are pretty stuck to staying in a particular area, and that wouldn't work for either of us.

I was totally that person who fell in love at first sight. I knew he was intelligent from what I heard about him from his fraternity brothers, but the minute I saw him I told my roommate that I was going to marry him, alcohol may have been involved .