Extra occupancy price increase and Minnie Van = resort parking no longer a perk?

Killer Fish · Jul 28, 2017

AtlantaDisneyDreamer said:
Because Disney doesn't want to be like the surrounding hotels. It wants to stand out. It wants to provide the ultimate in guest experience. It does now, in my opinion. When it becomes like the surrounding hotels, there is no reason for me to choose Disney over the surrounding hotels.

Exactly!

So when you take your dollars and go elsewhere and are not replaced they will make changes in terms of pricing/strategy/inclusions/fees.

However if you go down the road and the next person is happy to oblige and fill your spot they do not lose in share.

I would also make a statement that the other high end hotels around property also strive to provide the ultimate in guest experience.

lockedoutlogic · Jul 28, 2017

DaisyJ said:
Supply and demand don't apply here.

No...she's right...it doesn't apply...

There is no supply/demand problem with the parking.

And the cost of maintenance/attendants is already assigned to some other number...likely a part of ticket charge or room revenue (where all the overhead is mostly assigned)

Matching other fees in the area is by definition not micro curve...it's a mislabeled rate increase.

Nancyg56 · Jul 28, 2017

Killer Fish said:
Exactly!

So when you take your dollars and go elsewhere and are not replaced they will make changes in terms of pricing/strategy/inclusions/fees.

However if you go down the road and the next person is happy to oblige and fill your spot they do not lose in share.

I would also make a statement that the other high end hotels around property also strive to provide the ultimate in guest experience.

Honestly, Disney seems to try to push the envelope and then pull back if they over reach. They are pretty savvy in determining which fees guests will be willing to absorb and which fees are going to be a big ol bust. For instance, in much the same way we heard that parking fees are being entertained, there was a rumor being bandied about that DME would be available for a fee. Yikes! Bet you a buck that for every post we saw decrying that charge, Disney was contacted and then some. The rumor was pulled back. WE have been hearing resort fees are being considered. You can believe that Disney tested the water for that fee as well, and depending on the pushback from folks, will or will not proceed.

I think that Disney "sells" fees and charges to determine how their guests will react and does not always implement them and then change policy.

Madonna3 · Jul 28, 2017

I think this is relevant. I'm not sure.

Just now, I called for a Family room at the Dolphin. I got the price down to $349 per night. Then they tacked on $25/night in "service" fees. Ok. I was prepared to pay that. THEN they tacked on $20 a day for parking. So that room is really $394/night. It made me mad, so I just booked Boardwalk for $350. I'm getting less space, but I'm not being nickel and dimed by "fees"

$25 and I can't even park my damn car.

amberpi · Jul 28, 2017

Killer Fish said:
This is all very market and location specific. Decisions are make looking at the competitive set. If the high end hotels around Disney are charging for Parking there is no reason why Disney should not charge for parking.

Going with 1 example, and I love a good strawman:

The Hyatt Regency Grand Cypress is right next to DS - you get killer views of the area. The service/restaurants (Hemingway's!) and pools are great. Also, yoga classes, golf right on property, rock walls, spas, actual tennis courts with a pro (I think). For a long weekend, next weekend? $126 then fees and parking. And there isn't (that I know of) a property on WDW that has the push button call service at the pool. Swolphin - $167, again fees and parking (for the location advantage, I'd certainly pick that, but ya'll know me). CR - $402. So two, very nice hotels, very close to WDW, charging for parking and fees if you don't have membership and one charging twice as much with fees. Personal note, every couple of years, I need a CR fix.

Here's where you could argue that at CR, parking and fees are included - what if you're not parking? At the Grand Cypress, you're coming in at about 200 a night for a less desirable location, but very equal amenities. If it matters, GC room service is delicious.

August 6th is the anniversary of my accident, was going to go labor day week to celebrate, but I'm seriously considering hopping down next week now.

Killer Fish · Jul 28, 2017

Madonna3 said:
I think this is relevant. I'm not sure.

Just now, I called for a Family room at the Dolphin. I got the price down to $349 per night. Then they tacked on $25/night in "service" fees. Ok. I was prepared to pay that. THEN they tacked on $20 a day for parking. So that room is really $394/night. It made me mad, so I just booked Boardwalk for $350. I'm getting less space, but I'm not being nickel and dimed by "fees"

$25 and I can't even park my damn car.

Perfect example!

I chose to stay on Disney property one of my last visits since the rate for a Employee Rate room (at a chain) was basically the same as Disney however there would have been self parking and resort fee added on. This is why I saw value in the Disney property. I continue to stress that not having these fees currently works for Disney and is a selling advantage...however that does not mean they won't test them/try them in the future.

Killer Fish · Jul 28, 2017

amberpi said:
Going with 1 example, and I love a good strawman:

The Hyatt Regency Grand Cypress is right next to DS - you get killer views of the area. The service/restaurants (Hemingway's!) and pools are great. Also, yoga classes, golf right on property, rock walls, spas, actual tennis courts with a pro (I think). For a long weekend, next weekend? $126 then fees and parking. And there isn't (that I know of) a property on WDW that has the push button call service at the pool. Swolphin - $167, again fees and parking (for the location advantage, I'd certainly pick that, but ya'll know me). CR - $402. So two, very nice hotels, very close to WDW, charging for parking and fees if you don't have membership and one charging twice as much with fees. Personal note, every couple of years, I need a CR fix.

Here's where you could argue that at CR, parking and fees are included - what if you're not parking? At the Grand Cypress, you're coming in at about 200 a night for a less desirable location, but very equal amenities. If it matters, GC room service is delicious.

August 6th is the anniversary of my accident, was going to go labor day week to celebrate, but I'm seriously considering hopping down next week now.

Great Hotel!

I used to work the Sunday morning Brunch back in college.....also may or may not be the hotel I was referring to in my previous post

.

amberpi · Jul 28, 2017

AtlantaDisneyDreamer said:
Because Disney doesn't want to be like the surrounding hotels. It wants to stand out. It wants to provide the ultimate in guest experience. It does now, in my opinion. When it becomes like the surrounding hotels, there is no reason for me to choose Disney over the surrounding hotels.

The actual guest experience at places like the Ritz, Swolphin, Grand Cypress, Omni (although its further away, they will knock you out as a hotel) are better. The YC and CR honestly don't understand high end guest experiences, but they are darn fine at what they do. Its not that one experience is better. They are simply apples and oranges.

lockedoutlogic · Jul 28, 2017

amberpi said:
The actual guest experience at places like the Ritz, Swolphin, Grand Cypress, Omni (although its further away, they will knock you out as a hotel) are better. The YC and CR honestly don't understand high end guest experiences, that they are darn fine at what they do. Its not that one experience is better. They are simply apples and oranges.

And that sentence is the fact. It's not a matter of personal opinion. It is the operational model.

You're paying for the "D"...and it's up to the consumer to justify the cost. It's not based on services. Location? Sure...environment? Definitely...

But it's not "service"...disney moved away from attempting that due mostly to labor costs in the early 90's

amberpi · Jul 28, 2017

lockedoutlogic said:
And that sentence is the fact. It's not a matter of personal opinion. It is the operational model.

You're paying for the "D"...and it's up to the consumer to justify the cost. It's not based on services. Location? Sure...environment? Definitely...

But it's not "service"...disney moved away from attempting that due mostly to labor costs in the early 90's

Service, to me, can largely be determined at the pool - and valet, but I don't (usually have a car at WDW). How long do you wait for staff, a cocktail, food, etc. Its a good barometer.

lockedoutlogic · Jul 28, 2017

amberpi said:
Service, to me, can largely be determined at the pool - and valet, but I don't (usually have a car at WDW). How long do you wait for staff, a cocktail, food, etc. Its a good barometer.

Right...and disney makes the absolute minimum investment in that...

Not only that...but they make management decisions behind the scenes to cause wage wars between the service providers to preserve what they feel is the economic social order.

A server/bartender makes to much? Limit their hours/tables...or rotate them out of their spot... that kind of nonsense...

Killer Fish · Jul 28, 2017

lockedoutlogic said:
No...she's right...it doesn't apply...

There is no supply/demand problem with the parking.

And the cost of maintenance/attendants is already assigned to some other number...likely a part of ticket charge or room revenue (where all the overhead is mostly assigned)

Matching other fees in the area is by definition not micro curve...it's a mislabeled rate increase.

Just so we are on the same page here I know there is not a supply/demand problem with the physical parking lot.

It is an amenity however of the hotel and that is where supply/demand come into play.....I HOPE that my other posts have given a good case that the supply/demand is there currently for the Disney resorts with some of the Orlando market conditions...based on actual data.

Absolutely the maintenance/attendants cost is already accounted for which is why adding a parking fee would almost go straight to the bottom line.

It is the same as hotels now charging a meeting room set up fee....the cost for this was already allocated from another places and it is a new revenue stream with practically 100% flow through.

lockedoutlogic · Jul 28, 2017

Killer Fish said:
Just so we are on the same page here I know there is not a supply/demand problem with the physical parking lot.

It is an amenity however of the hotel and that is where supply/demand come into play.....I HOPE that my other posts have given a good case that the supply/demand is there currently for the Disney resorts with some of the Orlando market conditions...based on actual data.

Absolutely the maintenance/attendants cost is already accounted for which is why adding a parking fee would almost go straight to the bottom line.

It is the same as hotels now charging a meeting room set up fee....the cost for this was already allocated from another places and it is a new revenue stream with practically 100% flow through.

You have points...not gonna try to debate that...the theme park market in Orlando has always been a bit bizarre though...

They don't compete - they collude. They charge fees and adjust at the same time...they raise prices two days apart...

It's almost like they don't actually care about the competition, huh?

It's a tight knit group of large scale operators...not sharks in the water. The battle is just to get you to the airport...after that, they can predict what their take off you will be.

It's not an Adam smith academic experiment...so "supply and demand" is usually a misdirection.

My favorite was last years "after hours magic"...I heard S&D there too..
But what actually happened is they refused to extend the operational calendar to the level it needed to be to adjust to ballooning crowds...as they had for 45 years...

It was just a massive ticket surcharge in a tight window...and those that fell for it couldn't put 2 and 2 together.

"But WE felt it was worth it..."

Great opinion...but you still got robbed and fell asleep while the wolves entered the pen. Luckily that one sorta failed.

The two dogs in town coordinate price increases...that's not on the supply and demand curves...unless it's a squiggle line in invisible ink or something.

Madonna3 · Jul 28, 2017

Killer Fish said:
Perfect example!

I chose to stay on Disney property one of my last visits since the rate for a Employee Rate room (at a chain) was basically the same as Disney however there would have been self parking and resort fee added on. This is why I saw value in the Disney property. I continue to stress that not having these fees currently works for Disney and is a selling advantage...however that does not mean they won't test them/try them in the future.

And to be fair - the room comes with NOTHING special over booking a regular room. At least at Disney, if I book a suite, they screw me with a smile.

AtlantaDisneyDreamer · Jul 28, 2017

amberpi said:
The actual guest experience at places like the Ritz, Swolphin, Grand Cypress, Omni (although its further away, they will knock you out as a hotel) are better. The YC and CR honestly don't understand high end guest experiences, but they are darn fine at what they do. Its not that one experience is better. They are simply apples and oranges.

They are apples and oranges. They should remain apples and oranges. That was my point. I was responding to a previous poster about why Disney shouldn't follow typical hotel practices in the area.
I'm sure the hotels you mentioned are fine hotels and they work for people who want what they offer. Me- I love adventure and variety. I like resort hopping and seeing all of the different themes The World has to offer. On a typical visit I may go to three or four different resorts just to shop, eat, and enjoy the theming. I'm not going to do that if I have to pay for parking. Last April we went down for a non-Disney trip, but we went to Sanaa, California Grill, Good's Food to Go (OKW), and Sassagoula Floatworks in that trip. If I we had been required to pay to park, we never would have ventured onto Disney property. To me, free parking means freedom. Freedom to explore. Paid parking at Disney kills that freedom. It is a very big deal to me- for convenience and freedom even more than financial reasons.

amberpi · Jul 28, 2017

AtlantaDisneyDreamer said:
They are apples and oranges. They should remain apples and oranges. That was my point. I was responding to a previous poster about why Disney shouldn't follow typical hotel practices in the area.
I'm sure the hotels you mentioned are fine hotels and they work for people who want what they offer. Me- I love adventure and variety. I like resort hopping and seeing all of the different themes The World has to offer. On a typical visit I may go to three or four different resorts just to shop, eat, and enjoy the theming. I'm not going to do that if I have to pay for parking. Last April we went down for a non-Disney trip, but we went to Sanaa, California Grill, Good's Food to Go (OKW), and Sassagoula Floatworks in that trip. If I we had been required to pay to park, we never would have ventured onto Disney property. To me, free parking means freedom. Freedom to explore. Paid parking at Disney kills that freedom. It is a very big deal to me- for convenience and freedom even more than financial reasons.

I love all the hotels too

Just saying that lots of great, very close by hotels have pay for parking and most of them resort fees, although I think like everybody gets those waived with a package or hotel status or whatever. I think its just a matter of what's "normal" - paying parking is a fact of life for me, or Ubering. Its not something I ever think of, I mean if I want to see a local tiny band tonight - I'm paying to park or Ubering. The only place I regularly go that I don't pay for parking is Target. All of the hotels close to me in Nashville, are pay to park - unless you go out in the burbs. Its just the cost of living. That's where we differ, you said "its a very big deal to me" - its just not for me. I pay to park where I get my hair and nails done. Stinks that it bothers you, but using my hometown as an instance, which isn't exactly "the big city." Would you not visit the Opryland Hotel? There is not free parking its $28 or $38 for valet. You can't park in the river, and they've walled off access from the mall. If its a deal breaker for you at WDW - where would you stay? Or, would you ditch the car? Honestly, curious! I love hearing about other's travel styles, so I'm definitely not arguing, just curious

The one good thing about WDW is you can easily hop between their resorts - I love it, without having to fuss with driving. Tons of transport options and cheap Ubers - they can keep their Minnie Vans though

amberpi · Jul 28, 2017

Madonna3 said:
And to be fair - the room comes with NOTHING special over booking a regular room. At least at Disney, if I book a suite, they screw me with a smile.

The Swolphin is always best to pay the cheapest rate and see what upgrades they have available for cash or free. I've gotten some killer rooms for like $20-$30 more a night on a nothing booking. Almost always - to balance that out I once got the worst room in a corner ground floor at the Dolphin.

AtlantaDisneyDreamer · Jul 28, 2017

amberpi said:
I love all the hotels too Just saying that lots of great, very close by hotels have pay for parking and most of them resort fees, although I think like everybody gets those waived with a package or hotel status or whatever. I think its just a matter of what's "normal" - paying parking is a fact of life for me, or Ubering. Its not something I ever think of, I mean if I want to see a local tiny band tonight - I'm paying to park or Ubering. The only place I regularly go that I don't pay for parking is Target. All of the hotels close to me in Nashville, are pay to park - unless you go out in the burbs. Its just the cost of living. That's where we differ, you said "its a very big deal to me" - its just not for me. I pay to park where I get my hair and nails done. Stinks that it bothers you, but using my hometown as an instance, which isn't exactly "the big city." Would you not visit the Opryland Hotel? There is not free parking its $28 or $38 for valet. You can't park in the river, and they've walled off access from the mall. If its a deal breaker for you at WDW - where would you stay? Or, would you ditch the car? Honestly, curious! I love hearing about other's travel styles, so I'm definitely not arguing, just curious

The one good thing about WDW is you can easily hop between their resorts - I love it, without having to fuss with driving. Tons of transport options and cheap Ubers - they can keep their Minnie Vans though

Nashville, huh? I'm sorry to hear a great city within my beloved birth state has moved so much into paid parking. I guess they have done so because people have accepted it. I could not imagine paying to get my nails or hair done. Seems so wrong to me. We've actually stayed at the Gaylord Opryland a couple of times- and paid the parking fee and grumbled quite a bit about it. We did get a really good deal on the hotel rate so the parking, while still seeming like a ripoff, was easier to swallow. Nonetheless, my first and last thought of the hotel was "ripoff." That is not good from a marketing perspective.

I don't know that paid parking is a deal-breaker, but definitely puts a damper on my WDW vacation and makes me feel less positive about going- and less positive about the Disney name in general. I spend a fortune on WDW trips and I have an AP and spend a lot of money on merchandise, as well. I do all that because I have such positive emotions when it comes to WDW. I don't want those positive emotions to fade- although admittedly, if they did, I would be quite a bit wealthier.

Every time I pay to park I feel like a sucker. Images of P.T. Barnum come to mind. When I buy a ticket to the parks, that is my choice and I get a benefit from that. When I buy merchandise, that is my choice and I get a benefit from that. When I pay for a hotel, that is my choice and I get a benefit from that. I don't get to choose whether to park or not. I have to park if I am going to go. It is a means to an end. I get no benefit from parking. Nothing whatsoever. It is just an added expense with no added benefit. Who wants that? When I am at Disney I want to feel special. I don't want to feel like a sucker (so yes, I know many would already consider me a sucker for spending what I do on vacations, but I don't FEEL like one. And that makes all the difference).

amberpi · Jul 28, 2017

AtlantaDisneyDreamer said:
Nashville, huh? I'm sorry to hear a great city within my beloved birth state has moved so much into paid parking. I guess they have done so because people have accepted it.

People in the burbs don't pay for parking so much - but in the city, the 2 little areas I frequent, they've grown so much, you have to encourage people to not drive - Uber/Lyft is crazy here, cheaper than parking and you can have a drink or 2. Nashville is great, but its grown so fast. Victim of its own hipness.

I get what you're saying about WDW. Parking is just like a "thing" for me, and I don't drive at WDW, period. Hell, I went so long without moving my Jeep, my dad had to charge it. I will literally go a month without driving - easy. I walk everywhere, but if I sold my house and had to buy a new one now? I'd make a lot of money, and would have a heck of a time finding a similar place. So, I'm the opposite end of the spectrum. But I hate that parking would even take an iota of your enjoyment out of it. That stinks. If they took away park hoppers, it might be my deal breaker. I might be too annoyed to buy 2 tickets. One park a day would mitigate the fun for me, to the point that I'd have no interest. I might suck it up and buy the 2 tickets concurrently though.

Andrew015 · Jul 28, 2017

Spot on as usual, my friend.

lockedoutlogic said:
You have points...not gonna try to debate that...the theme park market in Orlando has always been a bit bizarre though...

They don't compete - they collude. They charge fees and adjust at the same time...they raise prices two days apart...

It's almost like they don't actually care about the competition, huh?

It's a tight knit group of large scale operators...not sharks in the water. The battle is just to get you to the airport...after that, they can predict what their take off you will be.

It's not an Adam smith academic experiment...so "supply and demand" is usually a misdirection.

My favorite was last years "after hours magic"...I heard S&D there too..
But what actually happened is they refused to extend the operational calendar to the level it needed to be to adjust to ballooning crowds...as they had for 45 years...

It was just a massive ticket surcharge in a tight window...and those that fell for it couldn't put 2 and 2 together.

"But WE felt it was worth it..."

Great opinion...but you still got robbed and fell asleep while the wolves entered the pen. Luckily that one sorta failed.

The two dogs in town coordinate price increases...that's not on the supply and demand curves...unless it's a squiggle line in invisible ink or something.

Extra occupancy price increase and Minnie Van = resort parking no longer a perk?

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