sudden death in athletes

[Kathryn Merteuil]

That is very scary stuff. I remember "back in the day" a kid from the neighborhood (I believe he was a freshman or sophomore in high school) died from an unknown/undetected heart condition. He was a football player, and heck of a nice kid.

 

[sam_gordon]

"Something that happened" and "couldn't have been too bad"? Your son was injured on the field and got a heart screening, and you can't even recall what it was about?

umm yea. My son has been playing for well over a decade, and DD is approaching it. My memory isn't as good as it used to be. I had actually forgotten about the screening until this thread.

 

[sam_gordon]

The sad thing is for your neighbors son is he probably will rarely play. His coach is not going to bench the players he did give money to so a walk on can play. I’ve seen this over and over again. We agreed, as a family, that our DD would not be on a college team as a walk on for this reason. She was incredibly blessed to be recruited by a team that is giving her a good athletic scholarship, but it’s not a full ride, which is ok - we are very grateful for the scholarship she has.

It really depends on the player. There are lots of examples of walk ons not only earning playing time, but even ending up on scholarship. Probably not the first year, but many scholarship players won't see the field in the first year either.

 

[momz]

https://www.playheartsmart.org/

$50 donation. Or free. Either way. Also, they will test all kids, there doesn’t need to be an anomaly heard first. Hopefully you can find a similar program near you.

Also, if a murmur is heard on your sports physical, your insurance will pay for the screening, not through the organization linked, but at the local cardiology office.

If your school can pay for the infrastructure for sports, they can pay for the coaches to be trained in life saving techniques. All the way down to the pee wee kids. There is no excuse for not educating the coaches on cpr, and on heat stroke for that matter. Lots of money is spent on the right helmets, the right pads, etc.

The testing is simple.

 

[soccerdad72]

Our state (Ohio) passed 'Lindsey's Law' that dictates that all coaches and officials must go through an online training to learn about Sudden Cardiac Arrest:

https://odh.ohio.gov/know-our-programs/lindsays-law/

And my sons' HS offered heart screenings a couple times a year through the school - I think the cost was something like $75, so pretty affordable.

 

[lanejudy]

Your school has enough money for sports, including an ice rink and tennis courts, but they won't hire enough athletic trainers? Is it a private school?

Public school. The facilities you mention are not wholly school-owned but also shared with the community. We do have 1 FT athletic trainer as of this past year; before that we may have had part-timers. The majority of schools in the state do not have a trainer.

 

[kymom99]

Public school. The facilities you mention are not wholly school-owned but also shared with the community. We do have 1 FT athletic trainer as of this past year; before that we may have had part-timers. The majority of schools in the state do not have a trainer.

That’s the thing, the trainer can’t be everywhere. The coaches have to be the first line of contact.

 

[VandVsmama]

Good luck getting health insurance companies to approve prior authorization requests for EKGs, heart ultrasounds, and heart CTs for every sports-bound kid who passes a regular sports physical with their PCP.

How come none of the parents are getting CPR trained?

 

[DisneyOma]

Public school. The facilities you mention are not wholly school-owned but also shared with the community. We do have 1 FT athletic trainer as of this past year; before that we may have had part-timers. The majority of schools in the state do not have a trainer.

That's so scary to me! Our high school is tiny (500 students) and we have two athletic trainers for games. One would be at a football game, for instance, and the other one would go to soccer. Both are teachers at our school; one teaches bio, the other teaches health.

 

[tink2424]

Ultimately these screenings should be had for our young athletes as we know that it will help catch some issues that will save lives.

Even professional athletes are dropping dead suddenly during games in the last few years so a cardiac screening isn't going to pick up every case but it will help. We should also look at other risk factors that cause sudden death and see what proactive measures can help as well.

 

[lanejudy]

Both are teachers at our school; one teaches bio, the other teaches health.

So I'm confused. Are you simply speaking of adults who are trained in first aid including use of an AED, etc.? Or are these actual professional athletic trainers with certification and appropriate education? "Athletic trainer" is a profession, with full bachelor-degree (as well as master/doctorate) college education programs and recognized certification. I've never stated we don't have adults present with varying levels of extra training, but our school only has 1 professional athletic trainer on staff FT who handles all sports/athletes for our (small) D1 high school. It sounds like your school only has teachers who agree to extra-curricular hours and possibly some additional training.

Sports physicals are not provided or even offered by the schools here. The family must arrange for it privately, usually at the student's pediatrician/PCP. I am not aware of any programs like some linked in previous posts about heart scans for student athletes available around here for any cost.

 

[HopperFan]

That's so scary to me! Our high school is tiny (500 students) and we have two athletic trainers for games. One would be at a football game, for instance, and the other one would go to soccer. Both are teachers at our school; one teaches bio, the other teaches health.

We have our professional trainers at on-campus sports competitions along with ambulance and paramedics.

I think it will always vary based on urban/suburban/rural, large/small school districts, state law regarding these events etc. I see from this thread we are lucky that where I live there are lots of governing requirements and our district likely goes above and beyond. The heart scans though are offered state wide and open to any school/system setting up events for their students.

When my kids were younger all trainers were students who had gone to a class. Each team had one. Now they are professional licensed medical folks who work at the school full time.

So I'm confused. Are you simply speaking of adults who are trained in first aid including use of an AED, etc.? Or are these actual professional athletic trainers with certification and appropriate education? "Athletic trainer" is a profession, with full bachelor-degree (as well as master/doctorate) college education programs and recognized certification. I've never stated we don't have adults present with varying levels of extra training, but our school only has 1 professional athletic trainer on staff FT who handles all sports/athletes for our (small) D1 high school. It sounds like your school only has teachers who agree to extra-curricular hours and possibly some additional training.

Sports physicals are not provided or even offered by the schools here. The family must arrange for it privately, usually at the student's pediatrician/PCP. I am not aware of any programs like some linked in previous posts about heart scans for student athletes available around here for any cost.

Same. Our athletic trainers are degreed licensed medical professionals who are affiliated with the local hospital. If a student is sent to them with issues at practices they can assess and make a referral to specialist. They can offer wide array of services from therapy in their training room, workouts etc.

 

[mousefan73]

I ignore these stats, some things in life one simply cannot control or know before. MY DD was a cardiac patient for a while and based on what I recal having every kids get heart scans for a sport physcial probably won't change those stats.

As a parent one thing we can control is that if your kids even has a simple cold or especially the flu ANY type of viral infection give it seriously 2 weeks or so to recover and avoid sports. Most will go by the above/below the neck symptoms rule or if the feel fine. WRONG my Cardiologist said if my DD is ill give her at least 2 weeks to recover fully .. Sudden death in kids is often related to Myokarditis / arrythmias and this is usually a result of a viral infection with no rest.

 

[sam_gordon]

We have our professional trainers at on-campus sports competitions along with ambulance and paramedics.

It might be interesting to find out if the ambulances/paramedics are at ALL school competitions, or just some. I wouldn't be surprised to see them staff football games and possibly basketball, but are they at soccer (both boys/girls), baseball, wrestling, softball, volleyball, swimming, track & field, cross country, etc? Are they at the middle school competitions?

My kids play soccer, and while, at least for HS games, there's a certified trainer on site, it's rare to have ambulance/paramedic on site for the games.

 

[HopperFan]

It might be interesting to find out if the ambulances/paramedics are at ALL school competitions, or just some. I wouldn't be surprised to see them staff football games and possibly basketball, but are they at soccer (both boys/girls), baseball, wrestling, softball, volleyball, swimming, track & field, cross country, etc? Are they at the middle school competitions?

My kids play soccer, and while, at least for HS games, there's a certified trainer on site, it's rare to have ambulance/paramedic on site for the games.

Our middle schools don’t have teams.

I’m not at all sports but the major ones for sure plus always cross country, provided by hosts no matter the location and often two. I’ve seen at larger track meets.

We sit between two high schools, one my kids went to snd I was on athletic board, and one where DS teaches and coaches. That school is walking distant to FD.

In our area ambulances are private contractors with city. They roll. So they can easily sit at competitions.

 

[momz]

Public school. The facilities you mention are not wholly school-owned but also shared with the community. We do have 1 FT athletic trainer as of this past year; before that we may have had part-timers. The majority of schools in the state do not have a trainer.

this is why the coaches need to know cpr including AED. And how to detect if an athlete is struggling. On those really hot days, it takes more than just asking the child if they are ok. Watching and catching signs of heat exhaustion are imperative, because heat exhaustion comes BEFORE heat stroke. Coaches can help by cooling down the athletes, and then...not making it worse by resuming exertion until the next day. So many times, I've seen coaches tell kids to sit in the shade and have some water, then returning them to the turf. It's dangerous stuff.

 

[momz]

Good luck getting health insurance companies to approve prior authorization requests for EKGs, heart ultrasounds, and heart CTs for every sports-bound kid who passes a regular sports physical with their PCP.

How come none of the parents are getting CPR trained?

they will pay if a murmur is heard at the sports physical. They will not pay as a general screening for everyone (to my knowledge). However, the cost is not that much, and can be free if there is a program for it near you. playheartsmart.org this is the one near us. your location might have a program as well.

 

[momz]

Ultimately these screenings should be had for our young athletes as we know that it will help catch some issues that will save lives.

Even professional athletes are dropping dead suddenly during games in the last few years so a cardiac screening isn't going to pick up every case but it will help. We should also look at other risk factors that cause sudden death and see what proactive measures can help as well.

100% agree! it should be part of the sports physical.

Looking at the data from the list, it is interesting to see what has changed through the years. That list goes all the way back to 1909. I think it was in the 90's when we started learning more about concussion. You can see the frequency of deaths from head and spine injury declining through the years. Also, it's around the 50's when you can tell they started to include African Americans based on seeing sickle cell crisis pop up. You don't see it before then. You can look through the years on this list and see the progress. The issues now are cardiac and heat stroke, with a smattering of some other things in there. But much less in the way of death by head injury and spine injury these days.

We can do better on the cardiac end by screening kids properly. As you said, you can't catch all of them, but we can do better.

 

[momz]

So I'm confused. Are you simply speaking of adults who are trained in first aid including use of an AED, etc.? Or are these actual professional athletic trainers with certification and appropriate education? "Athletic trainer" is a profession, with full bachelor-degree (as well as master/doctorate) college education programs and recognized certification. I've never stated we don't have adults present with varying levels of extra training, but our school only has 1 professional athletic trainer on staff FT who handles all sports/athletes for our (small) D1 high school. It sounds like your school only has teachers who agree to extra-curricular hours and possibly some additional training.

Sports physicals are not provided or even offered by the schools here. The family must arrange for it privately, usually at the student's pediatrician/PCP. I am not aware of any programs like some linked in previous posts about heart scans for student athletes available around here for any cost.

the pediatrician/pcp can order the testing as well, and they should be ordering if they hear a murmur or detect another anomaly that could suggest a congenital disorder (I'm sure they are ordering if indicated). however, a parent can ask for this as well. I don't know any provider who would deny that request. I don't know the out of pocket cost if coded as a screening. but when there it is diagnostic need (i.e. ordered because of a problem discovered during the physical), insurance will cover it.

 

[momz]

I ignore these stats, some things in life one simply cannot control or know before. MY DD was a cardiac patient for a while and based on what I recal having every kids get heart scans for a sport physcial probably won't change those stats.

As a parent one thing we can control is that if your kids even has a simple cold or especially the flu ANY type of viral infection give it seriously 2 weeks or so to recover and avoid sports. Most will go by the above/below the neck symptoms rule or if the feel fine. WRONG my Cardiologist said if my DD is ill give her at least 2 weeks to recover fully .. Sudden death in kids is often related to Myokarditis / arrythmias and this is usually a result of a viral infection with no rest.

i have found some surprising things through the years during sports physicals. you would be surprised how many kids out there don't have a primary doctor and don't get annual check-ups. There are so many things that are not caught during a sick visit...so we have sports physicals for the purpose of intentionally looking for those things that have not been caught yet. Some common findings are scoliosis, heart murmur, skin disorders, hyperlaxity of joints. Many of these things don't preclude a child from participating in sports, but they are things that can be helped. You would be floored by some of the things I have found. I cannot diagnose these things in a sports physical, but I can require further workup (if indicated). By referring kids I have found marfan's syndrome in a 21 year old, anorexia nervosa in a 14 year old, multiple heart murmurs (some innocent, come not), several hernias, lots of skin disorders including MRSA, and believe it or not I found Gigantism in an 8th grader...the family and coaches didn't pick up on their signs because they've seen this kid his whole life and didn't think anything of the changes, and that's ok, that's why we do sports physicals.