Looking for Advice....

[NHdisneylover]

I think it really depends on how much mom paid for the addition. If mom kept her home, she would've been paying taxes and maintenance on it. How much money does mom have left? Those over 55 places that provide food, laundry, housekeeping, activities are expensive, and it's not clear what type of senior housing the OP is talking about. The OP did indicate that she would be helping her mom out financially.

whici is why, in my example the adult child covered those things for the mom---to make them as close as youcould without being the same property.
IF an adult child had, without being asked and without every askng for any payment, and while stating (even now) that they did not want to be paid for those things, had paid for maintenence and taxes for their parent for 20 years---would it then be acceptable for the adult child to claim all profit from teh sale of the parent's home 20 years later? (while the parent was still alive). If not, tehn also not in this case. Someohw people are thinking that the mother's home being an addition instead of on a seperate lot reduces her claim to the money from the sale of her property that she paid for in full. I don't see why that is.

 

[ronandannette]

Earlier on in the thread you said you've known many widows, but none who have been taken advantage of by their kids. This response kind of makes it seem you feel the more anticipated scenario is the widowed parent taking advantage of their kids.

With all due respect to your professional experience, I doubt that very many of us here have much concern at all that either scenario will ever befall us.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I think I get what you are saying but you cant give someone 20 dollars if you only have 5 well I take that back you could if you have credit

What??

 

[mjkacmom]

whici is why, in my example the adult child covered those things for the mom---to make them as close as youcould without being the same property.
IF an adult child had, without being asked and without every askng for any payment, and while stating (even now) that they did not want to be paid for those things, had paid for maintenence and taxes for their parent for 20 years---would it then be acceptable for the adult child to claim all profit from teh sale of the parent's home 20 years later? (while the parent was still alive). If not, tehn also not in this case. Someohw people are thinking that the mother's home being an addition instead of on a seperate lot reduces her claim to the money from the sale of her property that she paid for in full. I don't see why that is.

So, let's say mom put in $50,000, house sells for $250,000. She's lived there paying nothing but utilities for 19 years, should she get her $50,000 back?

 

[NHdisneylover]

So, let's say mom put in $50,000, house sells for $250,000. She's lived there paying nothing but utilities for 19 years, should she get her $50,000 back?

yes. she should. At a MINIMUM. she's not getting anything for the appreciation of the value of the home in 19 years---which almost certainly would be worth more than the added taxes or maintence.

You feel it would be reasonable to force someone to sell a home they paid cash for in full, with the stated undersatnding that they would be able to live in that home for the rest of their life, and give them none of the funds from the sale of that home?

 

[mjkacmom]

yes. she should. At a MINIMUM. she's not getting anything for the appreciation of the value of the home in 19 years---which almost certainly would be worth more than the added taxes or maintence.

You feel it would be reasonable to force someone to sell a home they paid cash for in full, with the stated undersatnding that they would be able to live in that home for the rest of their life, and give them none of the funds from the sale of that home?

I think they should wait to see what the house sells for. Apparently the apartment can't be rented out, so they'd need to find buyers who want an attached unrentable apartment. Who knows about the value of the house, the OP seems to think the neighborhood is going downhill.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

With all due respect to your professional experience, I doubt that very many of us here have much concern at all that either scenario will ever befall us.

I think that is a naive statement. It happens all the time. In fact, my neighbor down the street did pretty much exact same thing to her mother after she was widowed. Moved mom into the basement of a bigger more expensive home paid in part by the widowed mother. Mother babysits kids every single day, taking them to and from school, cooks all of the family meals, does all of the laundry and when the kids no longer need a babysitter the daughter kicks out her mother to her brother's house. (The son who got the other half of mom's money from the sale of her house when the father died). It's actually a classic story told again and again.

That's just one example but I've seen many elderly parents taken advantage of by their own children.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I think that is a naive statement. It happens all the time. In fact, my neighbor down the street did pretty much exact same thing to her mother after she was widowed. Moved mom into the basement of a bigger more expensive home paid in part by the widowed mother. Mother babysits kids every single day, taking them to and from school, cooks all of the family meals, does all of the laundry and when the kids no longer need a babysitter the daughter kicks out her mother to her brother's house. (The son who got the other half of mom's money from the sale of her house when the father died). It's actually a classic story told again and again.

That's just one example but I've seen many elderly parents taken advantage of by their own children.

Right and those children often pat themselves on the back about how selfless they are for taking in mom (or dad) who is just so difficult.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I think that is a naive statement. It happens all the time. In fact, my neighbor down the street did pretty much exact same thing to her mother after she was widowed. Moved mom into the basement of a bigger more expensive home paid in part by the widowed mother. Mother babysits kids every single day, taking them to and from school, cooks all of the family meals, does all of the laundry and when the kids no longer need a babysitter the daughter kicks out her mother to her brother's house. (The son who got the other half of mom's money from the sale of her house when the father died). It's actually a classic story told again and again.

That's just one example but I've seen many elderly parents taken advantage of by their own children.

Considering the number of people on this thread who see nothing wrong with displacing Mom from what was supposed to be a permanent home & not giving her any money out of the sell of the house, it's not surprising to hear it's not all that uncommon. After all, the only thing that matters is what's best for us.

 

[Marchand63]

I never intended to come back to this thread but after reading through it. Op it has nothing to do with money or monetary gain to me. My parent sold a home and has about 1/2 million in the bank in case the need nursing home care. That will NEVER happen!!!! They are my parent and will ALWAYS be in my home.


Sorry but to put a loved one in care to me is an absolute & must be a medical decision. Your DM changed your diapers, dried your tears, healed your wounds, held when your were weak, now cutting her to the curb AWESOME.

 

[ronandannette]

I think that is a naive statement. It happens all the time. In fact, my neighbor down the street did pretty much exact same thing to her mother after she was widowed. Moved mom into the basement of a bigger more expensive home paid in part by the widowed mother. Mother babysits kids every single day, taking them to and from school, cooks all of the family meals, does all of the laundry and when the kids no longer need a babysitter the daughter kicks out her mother to her brother's house. (The son who got the other half of mom's money from the sale of her house when the father died). It's actually a classic story told again and again.

That's just one example but I've seen many elderly parents taken advantage of by their own children.

I believe it does happen, absolutely - there's an endless amount of dysfunction and pain in the world. But it didn't happen with my parents nor will it happen with my children. I will repeat that I don't believe most of us here feel like we're at risk for this or that the majority of families are at risk. We can all provide ample anecdotal examples of loving, respectful children that serve their parents faithfully through the end of their lives.

 

[tinkerbellandeeyor]

What??

Sorry that's what happens when you read bits and pieces

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

Right and those children often pat themselves on the back about how selfless they are for taking in mom (or dad) who is just so difficult.

Yes, this particular woman, whose kids were friends with mine, constantly complained about her mother. Meanwhile, I was green with envy over the fact these kids had such a loving, caring grandmother to mind them instead of a daycare. Not to mention mom and dad coming home to cooked meals every night and never lifted a hand cleaning. The grandmother did everything for the kids and the daughter was and is an ungrateful spoiled, narcissistic brat.

This is not to say it is the same scene with the OP but yes, adult children take financial advantage of their kids all of the time.

Another woman I know made her mother sell her house, rightfully so I think as the woman was getting to the point she needed full time care. House worth 2 million dollars. Daughter and son split the proceeds and then put mom in the crappiest hell hole nursing home claiming there was no money to put her anywhere else.

Both incidents I've shared are from adult kids with perfectly good professional incomes of their own. Greed is a powerful thing.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

I believe it does happen, absolutely - there's an endless amount of dysfunction and pain in the world. But it didn't happen with my parents nor will it happen with my children. I will repeat that I don't believe most of us here feel like we're at risk for this or that the majority of families are at risk. We can all provide ample anecdotal examples of loving, respectful children that serve their parents faithfully through the end of their lives.

Well of course nobody believes it will happen to them. That's why these parents give everything they have to their kids. They love and trust their offspring. It's too often a mistake though. Lessons should be learned from the OP's story.

At some point down the road, whether the parents are in their 70's, 80's or 90's you can almost bet their children (and their children's spouses) will be making financial or life decisions for them.

I'm basing my anecdotal stories on the OP's situation.

 

[ronandannette]

Well of course nobody believes it will happen to them. That's why these parents give everything they have to their kids. They love and trust their offspring. It's too often a mistake though. Lessons should be learned from the OP's story.

At some point down the road, whether the parents are in their 70's, 80's or 90's you can almost bet their children (and their children's spouses) will be making financial or life decisions for them.

I'm basing my anecdotal stories on the OP's situation.

You know the OP's mother didn't give the children everything she had, right? She kept the proceeds of the sale of her home (under-market value though it might have been) except for the portion used to build the addition. She also continued to work for some number of years and presumably had control of her own income. Between those two sources of funds (OP never mentioned her Dad's estate, or any pension or SS income) we can assume that's what she's been living off. Her expenses are apparently her portion of the utilities, her own groceries and clothing and her travel.

Although no dollar-amounts have been mentioned, it's been pointed out up-thread that even modest rent, or perhaps even normal taxes and maintenance on the house itself, would have very likely cost her more over the years than her investment in the addition. At that point one can assume she would have been expected to be self-supporting, on whatever income she had. The OP doesn't mention the decision to move her in was primarily financial - on either the mother's part or the OP's. And since the OP also doesn't mention being her conservator, or having POA, one can also assume that being of sound mind and body, the mother could have stayed in her own home if she chose.

I hope @appleplie will chime in here to correct me if I've misconstrued anything. I'm not advocating for what was done, only trying to bring clarity to the facts as they've been presented. There are so many rabbit trails in this thread now due to people telling their own stories and people posing convoluted hypotheticals, it's become difficult to keep everything straight.

 

[mjkacmom]

I never intended to come back to this thread but after reading through it. Op it has nothing to do with money or monetary gain to me. My parent sold a home and has about 1/2 million in the bank in case the need nursing home care. That will NEVER happen!!!! They are my parent and will ALWAYS be in my home.


Sorry but to put a loved one in care to me is an absolute & must be a medical decision. Your DM changed your diapers, dried your tears, healed your wounds, held when your were weak, now cutting her to the curb AWESOME.

Her mother is 74 years old without health issues! Before my mom passed away (aggressive cancer) at 69, she could literally run circles around me. A half million is not a lot, a nursing home would suck that up in four years, and there are some ailments that require around the clock medical care that can't be done at home. The OP's mom can live a normal full life at this point. My friend's mom just turned 90, and she lives alone across the street from me. She took a three week trip to Ireland this summer, still drives, is as sharp as a tack. Why are all of these people in their 70's helpless old people? People are living longer, 74 is not old! Well, maybe some folks don't take care of themselves like they should. FIL had to give up umpiring at 88, needed his second hip replacement.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

Her mother is 74 years old without health issues! Before my mom passed away (aggressive cancer) at 69, she could literally run circles around me. A half million is not a lot, a nursing home would suck that up in four years, and there are some ailments that require around the clock medical care that can't be done at home. The OP's mom can live a normal full life at this point. My friend's mom just turned 90, and she lives alone across the street from me. She took a three week trip to Ireland this summer, still drives, is as sharp as a tack. Why are all of these people in their 70's helpless old people? People are living longer, 74 is not old! Well, maybe some folks don't take care of themselves like they should. FIL had to give up umpiring at 88, needed his second hip replacement.

The OP's mother's way of life, financially, will be drastically altered if her daughter moves her out of the home she helped built. This is from OP. It's not like she can go on trips if she can't afford them anymore.

 

[Marchand63]

Her mother is 74 years old without health issues! Before my mom passed away (aggressive cancer) at 69, she could literally run circles around me. A half million is not a lot, a nursing home would suck that up in four years, and there are some ailments that require around the clock medical care that can't be done at home. The OP's mom can live a normal full life at this point. My friend's mom just turned 90, and she lives alone across the street from me. She took a three week trip to Ireland this summer, still drives, is as sharp as a tack. Why are all of these people in their 70's helpless old people? People are living longer, 74 is not old! Well, maybe some folks don't take care of themselves like they should. FIL had to give up umpiring at 88, needed his second hip replacement.

Sorry not getting your point. So because her mom is healthy it is okay to shuffle her off? My parent is 92 has dementia but like your 74 yo could run a marathon(again sarcasm) tomorrow. Is it convenient to us to have my parent with us, heck no, but I will never abandon them to anyone. My blood, my life, my responsibility until if & when medical issues make that impossible

Not any of your business but that is her cash assets, we have enough between their pension/medical trust to hit 101, after that we'll work it out but thanks for your financial advice

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

Wow this thread is complicated!

I guess I'm confused by people saying that the mom helped build the OP's house. From what I've read the op built or bought her home and the mother built an addition for her own comfort-a space that only she has used for the last 19 years.

I think that's very different than if mom had given money to build the house or help buy the house that the family lived in and otherwise could not have afforded on their own.

Regardless of what I think of the situation as a whole it seems like the addition benefitted mom and not the op.

 

[appleplie]

So, let's say mom put in $50,000, house sells for $250,000. She's lived there paying nothing but utilities for 19 years, should she get her $50,000 back?

Bingo!!!

Next question- How much do you think it would have cost to stay in her original home for 19 years?

How much do you think an apartment elsewhere would have cost for 19 years?