WDW and DL Pirates to change Redhead scene

[earfulofmagic]

If you don't see much point in the back and forth talk to continue at this point then why comment again ? and with comments aimed at getting responses.

Where did I say that? The line you quote is my amusement at people who, despite any evidence, still want to claim political correctness to suit their own agenda. But since you're here, answer me this: was there a craze of visitors suddenly hating the ride, complaining to Disney about this scene?

 

[earfulofmagic]

1. It doesn't need a refresh and just had a 4.5 month refurb last year. All of the animatronics were updated during that time. Several other rides need work before this one.
2. This change has nothing to do with the movie. If it does show me where and how.
3. I can see this but I truly don't believe that's their only motivation.

1. Yeah, what about the storyline? Has this scene been around for the 50-odd years floating around? That's more than enough time for a refresh, regardless of how anyone feels about its "classic" status.
2. Again, this scene's change may not have anything to do with PREVIOUS movies. It opens the door for future movies. The other change that *does* have to do with the movie is their mention of adding Barbarossa to the ride.
3. I mean, stomp your feet and believe the sky is green, but this company has little history of changing things in-park, much less rides and attractions, to be politically correct. Everybody has given enough evidence by making lists over and over of allllllll the rides with problematic elements. Many of those have been around long times as well.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Where did I say that? The line you quote is my amusement at people who, despite any evidence, still want to claim political correctness to suit their own agenda. But since you're here, answer me this: was there a craze of visitors suddenly hating the ride, complaining to Disney about this scene?

Ok well let me explain what I mean-

When you say "Is this battle still raging?" it's like you saying 'what's the point of continuing the conversation'. I get it that you feel you are right in your opinion, others feel they are right in their opinions.

You then follow up with comments in where you call out people and tell them to prove to you this and that. That is why "the battle is still raging" because comments being made. In essence comments like yours are why "the battle is still raging". Plenty of people have left the thread for whatever reasons they are but it's confusing why someone would stay in this thread and then say "why is this still even being talked about" and then proceed to talk about it and in ways to provoke responses.

**It can also be noted all I commented on was your line of "Is this battle still raging" but you responded back to me with comments aimed at engaging in a discussion that didn't exist in my comment to you and yet you ask me "Where did I say that"**

 

[TavieP]

Honestly curious about this as I have literally never heard of this. I just asked my wife and neither has she and sees being a female just what biologically she is and would have no issue

I try to be sensitive to these things and involved with some stuff at work looking at how to to have equal treatment for women (He for She, etc) but I have never heard of that being an issue

The key is to use the word as an adjective rather than a noun, if you honestly are curious. "A female" strikes me and many (not all) others as offensive; "female ___" is just a description. Because we're not just males and females, we're humans.

If you were honestly curious. I don't want to debate this, and I don't want to educate anyone on feminism 101 (Google exists if people are honestly curious and not just looking for an argument) so I'm going to leave this at that. I'm done talking about this topic as it really is off the topic of the ride.

 

[earfulofmagic]

Ok well let me explain what I mean-

When you say "Is this battle still raging?" it's like you saying 'what's the point of continuing the conversation'. I get it that you feel you are right in your opinion, others feel they are right in their opinions.

You then follow up with comments in where you call out people and tell them to prove to you this and that. That is why "the battle is still raging" because comments being made. In essence comments like yours are why "the battle is still raging". Plenty of people have left the thread for whatever reasons they are but it's confusing why someone would stay in this thread and then say "why is this still even being talked about" and then proceed to talk about it and in ways to provoke responses.

**It can also be noted all I commented on was your line of "Is this battle still raging" but you responded back to me with comments aimed at engaging in a discussion that didn't exist in my comment to you and yet you ask me "Where did I say that"**

No, I understand what you are trying to say.

What I am trying to explain to you is that it's not what I meant.

I understand what you interpreted. I'm explaining that the sentence you quoted is a reflection of how I feel about seeing multiple messages still decrying political correctness without evidence, not a sarcastic call to end the discussion.

This should be pretty clear by the fact that I continue to write and comment after that initial line. If I had only commented that, it'd be the only interpretation. But I did not. I made more points.

 

[TavieP]

Ok this is purely out of curiosity. If anyone is offended by the auction scene, are they also offended by the spousal abuse allegations of Johnny Depp?

Very much offended by them, yes (to be specific, I believe women who say they are abused and I find it horrendous.) Johnny Depp is a disturbing person for this reason and it colors my perception of him, and the ride TBH. Seeing him in it gives me the creeps now.

 

[TavieP]

Fatphobic??? How is it fatphobic? Now we can't have fat women being portrayed? Let's change every ride to include just stick figures, with no gender, so no one gets offended. PS-I am not a thin woman and I don't get my feathers ruffled by every character trait that people "should" be able to laugh at. What's happened to our country?

Since you're asking, the entire scene plays on a stereotype of fat women as undesirable. My boyfriend and millions of other men beg to differ. It plays on the trope of the pathetic, unwanted, cluelessly smiling fat woman for laughs. This is my opinion, not telling anyone how to think. It's such a common trope in our culture that I don't even think enough of it to do more than be passingly glad that the scene will be changed. I certainly haven't written letters to Disney complaining about it, and it's not nearly as offensive as the depiction of sex trafficking, but I'm not going to apologize for expressing my opinion as an aside that the scene is fatphobic.

Feel free to disagree, no matter what yor size, shape, or gender. All statements here are opinions.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

No, I understand what you are trying to say.

What I am trying to explain to you is that it's not what I meant.

I understand what you interpreted. I'm explaining that the sentence you quoted is a reflection of how I feel about seeing multiple messages still decrying political correctness without evidence, not a sarcastic call to end the discussion.

This should be pretty clear by the fact that I continue to write and comment after that initial line. If I had only commented that, it'd be the only interpretation. But I did not. I made more points.

Basically what's the point of even asking "is this battle still raging" if you just plan to provoke people with your comments. I wasn't taking it as a sarcastic 'call to end the discussion' way but rather a 'poking the bear' way evident by your following comments which is why I responded in the way I did.

 

[rteetz]

1. Yeah, what about the storyline? Has this scene been around for the 50-odd years floating around? That's more than enough time for a refresh, regardless of how anyone feels about its "classic" status.
2. Again, this scene's change may not have anything to do with PREVIOUS movies. It opens the door for future movies. The other change that *does* have to do with the movie is their mention of adding Barbarossa to the ride.
3. I mean, stomp your feet and believe the sky is green, but this company has little history of changing things in-park, much less rides and attractions, to be politically correct. Everybody has given enough evidence by making lists over and over of allllllll the rides with problematic elements. Many of those have been around long times as well.

I don't care classic or not. We need other rides updated before pirates needs it and like I said it just had a very long refurb.

The movies are based on the ride not the other way around. I don't mind the movies influencing the ride but it's not necessary for a good ride.

Many have more problems with this ride more than other rides. It's an easy assumption to make IMO.

 

[earfulofmagic]

I don't care classic or not. We need other rides updated before pirates needs it and like I said it just had a very long refurb.

The movies are based on the ride not the other way around. I don't mind the movies influencing the ride but it's not necessary for a good ride.

Many have more problems with this ride more than other rides. It's an easy assumption to make IMO.

1. That's not your call to make. Disney's call. Apparently, they think it does, so whether it's because it's been around for 50 years + a new movie just came out = so it's a good time to jump on the refresh for future development -- OR NOT -- they're still doing it. It is still a viable reason for a refresh, despite your noting that there was a 4.5 month refurb last year. Notice they are updating all of the POTC rides, so it seems more likely that it's to introduce significant storyline changes for the future.

2. ...okay...again, what you deem necessary to the ride doesn't mean Disney is adopting your workflow. I know the movies were originally based on the ride. But now there's a lot more movie storyline vs. ride storyline, so it makes sense for them to change the ride to more closely match the movie (of the same name). If this ride is to be open for many more decades, then there's a whole new generation of park visitors who never saw the ride or lived in a world without the POTC movies. Whether or not anyone wants to accept that change, Disney will address it and adapt as they see fit.

3. Again, when did people have problems with this ride before? I've never heard of it as a complaint. I've heard whispers of complaints that Tiki Room/Splash Mountain have racist elements. I've definitely seen the outcry over HoP. But I hadn't heard of POTC as being problematic until now. You say it's an easy assumption that "many have more problems with this ride more than other rides." Is it also easy to point to some evidence that supports your assumption?

 

[earfulofmagic]

Basically what's the point of even asking "is this battle still raging" if you just plan to provoke people with your comments. I wasn't taking it as a sarcastic 'call to end the discussion' way but rather a 'poking the bear' way evident by your following comments which is why I responded in the way I did.

Next time I will just say "I think it's funny that political correctness is still being pointed to as the sole driving force behind this change when we don't have any evidence of it." I hope that will be less confusing.

 

[rteetz]

1. That's not your call to make. Disney's call. Apparently, they think it does, so whether it's because it's been around for 50 years + a new movie just came out = so it's a good time to jump on the refresh for future development -- OR NOT -- they're still doing it. It is still a viable reason for a refresh, despite your noting that there was a 4.5 month refurb last year. Notice they are updating all of the POTC rides, so it seems more likely that it's to introduce significant storyline changes for the future.

2. ...okay...again, what you deem necessary to the ride doesn't mean Disney is adopting your workflow. I know the movies were originally based on the ride. But now there's a lot more movie storyline vs. ride storyline, so it makes sense for them to change the ride to more closely match the movie (of the same name). If this ride is to be open for many more decades, then there's a whole new generation of park visitors who never saw the ride or lived in a world without the POTC movies. Whether or not anyone wants to accept that change, Disney will address it and adapt as they see fit.

3. Again, when did people have problems with this ride before? I've never heard of it as a complaint. I've heard whispers of complaints that Tiki Room/Splash Mountain have racist elements. I've definitely seen the outcry over HoP. But I hadn't heard of POTC as being problematic until now. You say it's an easy assumption that "many have more problems with this ride more than other rides." Is it also easy to point to some evidence that supports your assumption?

I never said it was my call. Changing them all also makes it easy to assume that it's for changing the storyline due to something like PC. Not all POTC are not the same. Disneyland and WDW aren't even the same:

A ride doesn't need to have movie tie ins to resonate with people. Haunted mansion, BTMRR, and Space don't have movie tie ins and all work well.

I've heard of people pointing out the scene and complaining. In this very thread you can find people who didn't like the scene. Splash mountain does not have any racist elements but is based on a movie that is considered racist.

 

[rteetz]

Next time I will just say "I think it's funny that political correctness is still being pointed to as the sole driving force behind this change when we don't have any evidence of it." I hope that will be less confusing.

The fact they are changing all of them (except Tokyo) is evidence. All of the rides are different.

 

[earfulofmagic]

I never said it was my call. Changing them all also makes it easy to assume that it's for changing the storyline due to something like PC. Not all POTC are not the same. Disneyland and WDW aren't even the same:

A ride doesn't need to have movie tie ins to resonate with people. Haunted mansion, BTMRR, and Space don't have movie tie ins and all work well.

I've heard of people pointing out the scene and complaining. In this very thread you can find people who didn't like the scene. Splash mountain does not have any racist elements but is based on a movie that is considered racist.

1. You said "I don't care classic or not. We need other rides updated before pirates needs it and like I said it just had a very long refurb."
I'm just pointing out that's not really a response to me saying, Disney thinks this is time for a refresh for xyz reasons and your response that other rides need to be refreshed first. You don't have to say it's your call -- I'm merely pointing out that regardless of which rides you think need a refresh first, Disney still thinks this one needs an update.
1.5 Sure, that could be a point for the "it's changing because of political correctness" movement. Although maybe it more points to my idea that they're revamping the rides to more closely resemble the movies in the future.

2. Okay... nobody says it "needs" to have movie tie-ins to resonate. But there *are* movies, so future park visitors who have seen the movies first might wonder why the ride of the same name isn't like the movie. That's a guess, but I think the overlay beginning with Johnny Depp shows Disney is headed in that direction. Again, Disney is not looking toward the past of visitors who loved this ride pre-films. They're trying to make it for the future visitors who will likely see the films. It's true that they don't "need" to match, but apparently they are banking on the idea that future visitors would probably find the experience more coherent with movie tie-ins.

3. "In this very thread" -> yeah, after the fact. Who complained beforehand? You could post a poll asking people in this very thread who disliked elements of the ride, if whether they had ever written or complained to Disney. My guess is a resounding "no." Most people will just not ride it or ignore it. Again, everybody is saying "those PC hippies!!!! they complained too much!!!!" but WHERE? I'm sure someone has complained at some point. But I highly doubt it reached a critical point where hordes of complaints reached Disney and they decided to change this. Why should anyone believe that? Lots of people complain about HoP, and their planned changes are still going in. It's far more likely with Disney's track record that changes are profit-based, not PC-based.

 

[Spacecow]

I think this sounds like a cool change. I'm excited to see how it turns out.

 

[rteetz]

1. You said "I don't care classic or not. We need other rides updated before pirates needs it and like I said it just had a very long refurb."
I'm just pointing out that's not really a response to me saying, Disney thinks this is time for a refresh for xyz reasons and your response that other rides need to be refreshed first. You don't have to say it's your call -- I'm merely pointing out that regardless of which rides you think need a refresh first, Disney still thinks this one needs an update.
1.5 Sure, that could be a point for the "it's changing because of political correctness" movement. Although maybe it more points to my idea that they're revamping the rides to more closely resemble the movies in the future.

2. Okay... nobody says it "needs" to have movie tie-ins to resonate. But there *are* movies, so future park visitors who have seen the movies first might wonder why the ride of the same name isn't like the movie. That's a guess, but I think the overlay beginning with Johnny Depp shows Disney is headed in that direction. Again, Disney is not looking toward the past of visitors who loved this ride pre-films. They're trying to make it for the future visitors who will likely see the films. It's true that they don't "need" to match, but apparently they are banking on the idea that future visitors would probably find the experience more coherent with movie tie-ins.

3. "In this very thread" -> yeah, after the fact. Who complained beforehand? You could post a poll asking people in this very thread who disliked elements of the ride, if whether they had ever written or complained to Disney. My guess is a resounding "no." Most people will just not ride it or ignore it. Again, everybody is saying "those PC hippies!!!! they complained too much!!!!" but WHERE? I'm sure someone has complained at some point. But I highly doubt it reached a critical point where hordes of complaints reached Disney and they decided to change this. Why should anyone believe that? Lots of people complain about HoP, and their planned changes are still going in. It's far more likely with Disney's track record that changes are profit-based, not PC-based.

But how to do you know this is an update rather than changing the scene to be PC or something like that? Disney will spin it as an update because duh why wouldn't they. They spin everything they do as something good.

They can wonder that sure but that again doesn't mean Disney has to add more movie tie ins. Future guests can enjoy the ride just as much as is without more movie tie ins it's that simple.

There are people even before this thread I have seen point it out.

Yes a lot of what Disney does is profit based and it's unfortunate because today's Disney execs are looking at the short term rather than long term. They are going to keep pushing more things like IP redos of rides and such because that sells merchandise. Merchandise isn't what it's all about. At some point they need to look at theme and story in a THEME park.

 

[bbmassey]

It's unfortunate because today's Disney execs are looking at the short term rather than long term. They are going to keep pushing more things like IP redos of rides and such because that sells merchandise. Merchandise isn't what it's all about. At some point they need to look at theme and story in a THEME park.

I cannot agree with or like this line of thought enough! This is why I am quickly tiring of Iger and his IP/PC push. At this point, I really miss Michael. It is time for a change, but he keeps finding new ways to hang on and further ruin the parks.

 

[rteetz]

I cannot agree with or like this line of thought enough! This is why I am quickly tiring of Iger and his IP/PC push. At this point, I really miss Michael. It is time for a change, but he keeps finding new ways to hang on and further ruin the parks.

The board likes him as well as Wall Street so they want him to stay as long as possible. Disney stock continues to be high under him.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The key is to use the word as an adjective rather than a noun, if you honestly are curious. "A female" strikes me and many (not all) others as offensive; "female ___" is just a description. Because we're not just males and females, we're humans.

If you were honestly curious. I don't want to debate this, and I don't want to educate anyone on feminism 101 (Google exists if people are honestly curious and not just looking for an argument) so I'm going to leave this at that. I'm done talking about this topic as it really is off the topic of the ride.

Thanks for the additional information and I will research it more as I am genuinely curious. As mentioned I am involved in this sort of thing at my company so want to be educated. Also as mentioned I asked my wife (who happens to be a female) and said she never heard of this and doesn't understand why anyone would find it offensive to be noted as "a female" so if wouldn't have occurred to either of us to even have to research it - but I will now

 

[hodad]

I think it's time for @rteetz to close this thread. As he has said elsewhere,

I think this thread has run its course. Disney released a statement and that's that.

Of course, if we want to believe that

Disney will spin it as an update because duh why wouldn't they

then let the rumors continue!