Trying to decide.... (long)

[nycdisneygal]

What would you do?

I live in expensive NYC and am in my 40s. Want to move to a town in CT. My parents have a home there and live in NYC, so sometimes we go out there and stay with them. I pay for their lawn services already as I did not want my dad to be doing the lawn in the heat at his age! We also help with fixing things up and gardening (my husband mainly).

So, our financial situation is: I have large school loans, we bought an apt 13 years ago, and my sister now lives in it but since she cant afford the whole thing (about 3K per month) we still pay 1K per month and my parents pay 1 K per month. So thats a mortgage we have. Its only a 1 bedroom so thats why I moved out. Our current rent we are paying is about 4.2K per month and its a good deal for NYC (2 bedroom and 2 bathroom!!!).

Our DD12 is in private school (since kindergarten) as we thought that would be best. In NYC it is SUPER expensive. That is why we waited almost 10 years to have a 2nd child -- the cost!!!! And we cant afford to live here AND send 2 kids to school.

Thats also why we want to move to CT. Good schools (public!) for our 2 kids. And hopefully better quality of life.

So that I dont have to commute 4 hours per day, I applied for and found jobs near CT. They both pay more than my current job ( I wont start until next spring). In fact, DH can stay at home and we will be making more than we are now (for one of the jobs). My husband makes a lot less than I do so I would love for him to stay home and help manage the household.

So.. we thought about buying a house. Because of our expenses, we have not saved enough for 20% DOWN for most of the houses in the town, but I am trying to look into the less expensive smaller houses. And really, other than the private school and our disney trips, we generally live below our means. I cook dinner after work, no housekeeper, my sister helps with childcare, many of my clothes are 20 years old, aways buy on sale. So we have discussed just adding a room and bathroom to my parents house ( I think the money we have saved will pay for it). This way we have help at home, no huge mortgage, can pay off loans and other mortgage, and save for both DD's college and retirement (and Disney vacations!!!!!). I just feel that taking a mortgage now means I will not be done paying it until my early 70s! But then, living with my parents is not that easy. Also , my mom can be difficult/annoying. I know that selling our apartment may be hard so I cant rely on that to help come up with downpayment. If I buy a house in the same town, I will still have to be taking care of 2 houses. My dad is coming up with ideas on where to build the addition already (he has no idea of what is actually feasible and is just coming up with ideas - some of which will obviously not work) but my DH is saying he wants to just buy a house. Also, I am guessing my sister will want to just move in with us. She is over every day having dinner with us but does spend a lot of time with my kids as DH and I work full time and she only works 2 days per week. My DH never thinks about finances -- I take care of everything/ watch everything. I remind him that it is not just mortage but taxes, heating oil, home repairs etc. Not sure if I am over worried about how we will pay for things...

 

[TwoMisfits]

What would you do?

I live in expensive NYC and am in my 40s. Want to move to a town in CT. My parents have a home there and live in NYC, so sometimes we go out there and stay with them. I pay for their lawn services already as I did not want my dad to be doing the lawn in the heat at his age! We also help with fixing things up and gardening (my husband mainly).

So, our financial situation is: I have large school loans, we bought an apt 13 years ago, and my sister now lives in it but since she cant afford the whole thing (about 3K per month) we still pay 1K per month and my parents pay 1 K per month. So thats a mortgage we have. Its only a 1 bedroom so thats why I moved out. Our current rent we are paying is about 4.2K per month and its a good deal for NYC (2 bedroom and 2 bathroom!!!).

Our DD12 is in private school (since kindergarten) as we thought that would be best. In NYC it is SUPER expensive. That is why we waited almost 10 years to have a 2nd child -- the cost!!!! And we cant afford to live here AND send 2 kids to school.

Thats also why we want to move to CT. Good schools (public!) for our 2 kids. And hopefully better quality of life.

So that I dont have to commute 4 hours per day, I applied for and found jobs near CT. They both pay more than my current job ( I wont start until next spring). In fact, DH can stay at home and we will be making more than we are now (for one of the jobs). My husband makes a lot less than I do so I would love for him to stay home and help manage the household.

So.. we thought about buying a house. Because of our expenses, we have not saved enough for 20% DOWN for most of the houses in the town, but I am trying to look into the less expensive smaller houses. And really, other than the private school and our disney trips, we generally live below our means. I cook dinner after work, no housekeeper, my sister helps with childcare, many of my clothes are 20 years old, aways buy on sale. So we have discussed just adding a room and bathroom to my parents house ( I think the money we have saved will pay for it). This way we have help at home, no huge mortgage, can pay off loans and other mortgage, and save for both DD's college and retirement (and Disney vacations!!!!!). I just feel that taking a mortgage now means I will not be done paying it until my early 70s! But then, living with my parents is not that easy. Also , my mom can be difficult/annoying. I know that selling our apartment may be hard so I cant rely on that to help come up with downpayment. If I buy a house in the same town, I will still have to be taking care of 2 houses. My dad is coming up with ideas on where to build the addition already (he has no idea of what is actually feasible and is just coming up with ideas - some of which will obviously not work) but my DH is saying he wants to just buy a house. Also, I am guessing my sister will want to just move in with us. She is over every day having dinner with us but does spend a lot of time with my kids as DH and I work full time and she only works 2 days per week. My DH never thinks about finances -- I take care of everything/ watch everything. I remind him that it is not just mortage but taxes, heating oil, home repairs etc. Not sure if I am over worried about how we will pay for things...

Why not split the difference? If it were me, I might spend a year living in my parent's house as-is (even if it's a basement life), while I socked away all the needed money for a down payment on a house and sold off the apartment. I mean, a year of NYC private school to CT public school would save, what, $20K or more all by itself? Add in a year without $4200/month in rent and that's another $50K...$70K should get you a decent start to a real down payment even if you can't sell the apartment (and if you do, if you really have no savings, that might be the ideal way to get a big start towards fixing that issue and your student loan issue). And if you skip next year's Disney trip, you'll probably have $10K more (and you can use that to pay your parents rent for the year)...

I mean, right now, it sounds like you make a lot of money, but probably spend more than you make...and some of that is out of wonderful generosity. But, you have to pay you and your immediate family 1st...

PS - I wouldn't have your spouse quit even if you got paid more in CT til you figure out your student loans and savings hole...you're already in your 40s, and you want to be getting above these issues at this age, not still being bogged down by them...

 

[crazylady]

It's good that your are worried or concerned about how to pay for things. Between "my mom can be difficult" and "dh says we should just buy a house", I'd say you need to buy or rent another house/condo/apt. If my husband didn't want to live with my sometimes annoying mother, we would need to live some place else. Congratulations on your new job!

 

[lorijohnhill]

I'm guessing you are looking in Fairfield County? (I've lived in Shelton, and also Derby and Meriden) Some of the smaller towns a little further up the coast are less expensive, but how far away you go from your parents would depend on their health I think. It seems to me that you could live in CT much more comfortably than in the city. Yard for the kids... More space in the house.

Having a difficult mother myself, I would advise against living with your parents. If you spend all your money to put on an addition and then end up not liking living with your parents, you are stuck and will be miserable. This can also put a big strain on a marriage.

It sounds like you have ever a wonderful family! I love how you all take care of each other.

 

[deedeezee]

Taxes in CT are brutal, although that is obviously the case in NY as well. Heating oil isn't cheap, neither is gas to get anywhere/everywhere. Whatever decision you make, make sure it allows for both current taxes and potential increases in the next few years. It also sounds like a LOT of time with your family (living with your parents and having your sister move there as well). So in your place, I would consider whether the decision is good for the marriage, and not just the wallet. Also, why not list the apartment now? If it is hard to sell, you can get a jump start on it. And it sounds like it is costing you $12k a year, so getting it sold (regardless of the timing of the move) would allow you to save up several thousand quickly.

 

[Hisgirl]

The one thing you said that caught my attention was adding a room to your parents' house.

Would your name be added to the warranty deed?

What would happen if they passed and the home was part of their estate, and now belonging to you and your sister? Are there other siblings?


If you lived there, and one of your parents became disabled and required 24/7 skilled nursing care, would your family expect you to care for them at home instead?

At your age, I would encourage you (if you were my girlfriend) to keep living arrangements separate.

Also, are you fully funding a 401K retirement account for your future first?

If you can find a public school that offers an excellent education, I would say go for it. I would thoroughly research the surrounding areas and know the property taxes.

Talk to a realtor and get up to date info on the chances of selling your NYC apt.

Additionally, why is your sister still being supported? Is she disabled? Is it time for her to reassess her own situation and begin to support herself?

Lots of questions for you. Sit down with a financial counselor if you can find one and walk through these scenarios. The AFCPE® is a great place to start finding a person in your area who specializes in financial counseling...not investing...but coaching and counseling.

All the best to you!

 

[Marionnette]

What would you do?

I live in expensive NYC and am in my 40s. Want to move to a town in CT. My parents have a home there and live in NYC, so sometimes we go out there and stay with them. I pay for their lawn services already as I did not want my dad to be doing the lawn in the heat at his age! We also help with fixing things up and gardening (my husband mainly).

So, our financial situation is: I have large school loans, we bought an apt 13 years ago, and my sister now lives in it but since she cant afford the whole thing (about 3K per month) we still pay 1K per month and my parents pay 1 K per month. So thats a mortgage we have. Its only a 1 bedroom so thats why I moved out. Our current rent we are paying is about 4.2K per month and its a good deal for NYC (2 bedroom and 2 bathroom!!!).

Our DD12 is in private school (since kindergarten) as we thought that would be best. In NYC it is SUPER expensive. That is why we waited almost 10 years to have a 2nd child -- the cost!!!! And we cant afford to live here AND send 2 kids to school.

Thats also why we want to move to CT. Good schools (public!) for our 2 kids. And hopefully better quality of life.

So that I dont have to commute 4 hours per day, I applied for and found jobs near CT. They both pay more than my current job ( I wont start until next spring). In fact, DH can stay at home and we will be making more than we are now (for one of the jobs). My husband makes a lot less than I do so I would love for him to stay home and help manage the household.

So.. we thought about buying a house. Because of our expenses, we have not saved enough for 20% DOWN for most of the houses in the town, but I am trying to look into the less expensive smaller houses. And really, other than the private school and our disney trips, we generally live below our means. I cook dinner after work, no housekeeper, my sister helps with childcare, many of my clothes are 20 years old, aways buy on sale. So we have discussed just adding a room and bathroom to my parents house ( I think the money we have saved will pay for it). This way we have help at home, no huge mortgage, can pay off loans and other mortgage, and save for both DD's college and retirement (and Disney vacations!!!!!). I just feel that taking a mortgage now means I will not be done paying it until my early 70s! But then, living with my parents is not that easy. Also , my mom can be difficult/annoying. I know that selling our apartment may be hard so I cant rely on that to help come up with downpayment. If I buy a house in the same town, I will still have to be taking care of 2 houses. My dad is coming up with ideas on where to build the addition already (he has no idea of what is actually feasible and is just coming up with ideas - some of which will obviously not work) but my DH is saying he wants to just buy a house. Also, I am guessing my sister will want to just move in with us. She is over every day having dinner with us but does spend a lot of time with my kids as DH and I work full time and she only works 2 days per week. My DH never thinks about finances -- I take care of everything/ watch everything. I remind him that it is not just mortage but taxes, heating oil, home repairs etc. Not sure if I am over worried about how we will pay for things...

Your husband doesn't want to live with your parents. That should be enough to decide it.

 

[barkley]

we bought an apt 13 years ago, and my sister now lives in it but since she cant afford the whole thing (about 3K per month) we still pay 1K per month and my parents pay 1 K per month

I am guessing my sister will want to just move in with us. She is over every day having dinner with us but does spend a lot of time with my kids as DH and I work full time and she only works 2 days per week

If I buy a house in the same town, I will still have to be taking care of 2 houses

it seems like if your parents weren't having to pay out $1000 per month for your sister's rent then they could EASILY afford lawn service as well as a handyman to take care of any maintenance so if you list the apartment asap you will have seemingly plenty of time for it to sell and you would in the end be saving yourself $1K per month and the cost/time associated in caring for your parent's home.

Additionally, why is your sister still being supported? Is she disabled? Is it time for her to reassess her own situation and begin to support herself?

agreed. it's a financial drain on both you and your parents. you mentioned that if you moved your sister would 'want to just move in with' you. that's a BIG want on her part that seems to be heavily reliant your financial support which if you are concerned about repayment of student loans and how to come up with a down payment needs to be addressed. she's only working 2 days a week, you provide her with nightly meals and 1/3rd of her housing expenses-unless there's some personal extenuating circumstance preventing her from being self sufficient the best thing you can do for yourself financially is to discontinue this through listing the apartment, and the best thing you can do for her is to help her make the move to independence by getting her out of an apartment she clearly can't afford and not letting her just choose to quit her only means of support to 'just move in' with you.

i'm also not a huge fan of the idea of adding on to and living in your parent's home. i think your husband's hesitance and your conceding that your mom isn't the easiest to always get along with is a BIG RED FLAG to avoid this at all costs. it doesn't make sense to throw money into someone else's home vs. paying down debt or growing equity in your home. if your sister is insistent that she doesn't want to/can't stay in new york after you move then perhaps she can move in with your parents.

finally
, i think you and your dh need to sit down with a financial adviser and run the numbers. you need to know the true financial implications of all scenarios b/c what might seem a great emotional decision on your part but makes your dh a little hesitant could in actuality be a HUGE financial misstep leaving you in a situation with limited or no choices.

 

[North of Mouse]

OK, first red flag - 'your mother can be annoying'!! That will only become worse between you, not better! Living as a married couple with children in your parents home?? No way would I do it, and I loved my parents dearly and they were good people. Add a grown sibling to the mix??!!

Listen to your husband - buy the house you can afford!! Everyone will be much happier!! Sell your apt. Let sis move into parents home if she wishes - or learn to live within her own means elsewhere. Why do you and your parents feel the need of financially enabling her? She needs to stand on her own two feet!

You have good relations with your family members now - keep them that way!!!
JMO

 

[Darcy03231]

I would move to CT and rent something for at least a year and take that time to sell the apt. in NYC. That way you won't have a mortgage on your credit already.

I'm with the others - - if your husband doesn't want to live with your parents, don't do it. Nothing can put a bigger strain on your marriage then living with in-laws if both parties aren't on-board.

 

[Nancyg56]

Living with parents can be stressful. Just after my DD married she, DSIL and my DGD moved in with us (Our idea) so they could save a decent down payment for a home of their own. I think it was difficult on my DSIL. He is a really easy going man and we all got along well, however no matter how you try, there are bound to be differences, and that can be stressful on a relationship.

I think that we were lucky, we all continue to get along well, and there were never any hard feelings about anything major. However you can get to know more about a couple than perhaps you should, and that goes both ways. If your mom is already annoying, and your DH is not on board, I would think long and hard about this plan.

 

[kymom99]

Here is my 2 cents. I agree with not moving in with your parents. If it was very short term, like a month or two then sure. But not indefinitely. I also agree to look at the situation with your sister. We don't know the reasons you and your parents support her, but there has to be a better way.

The one thing I will add, speaking from experience, is to make your husband get involved with the finances. I never did and I'm sorry for that now, at the age of 53. My husband has never had to deal with finances. I have kept our bills paid for 22+ years. When you said he wants to "just buy a house" it struck a nerve with me. It's not like buying a pair of shoes. As someone said previously, the two of you could benefit from sitting down with a financial counselor. If for no other reason than if something were to happen to you how would he manage?

 

[tink89]

I am just puzzled by all of this.
Why is your sis living in an apartment she can't afford and that you could obviously rent out and be making money instead of spending and extra $1k a month?

Im unsure if you have more than one job. If I had that much debt in loans or anything you better believe my husband would be working as well. I can't understand if you will save money by him staying home or you will be making the same as now in your other job so you just want him to stay home.

Why would your sister assume she can just move in. Is she in college? Working? She would leave everything and just move?

Like others have said if your mom can be a bit annoying now imagine daily. I know families have different dynamics and usually one person is in charge of finances. I am the one in our family who does that, but me and DH talk about finances daily. We know how much we have in savings and if we are in any debt. We use credit cards for everything but pay them off monthly. We both pay bills. We both know how much we pay for everything (cell phone, cable, etc.)is and what we are paying for. And what are goals are how much is going into retirement accounts a child college savings. Basically if i were not here tomorrow my husband would know exactly what to do with the finances and how everything is running and vice a versa.

Anyone who wants to buy a home should know about taxes and home repairs, etc. Doesn't he do this already.

I do not want to judge but i also think you are asking because you want others opinions. Please sit down with your husband and figure out what is best for you two and your kids. Not what is best for your parents or siblings.

 

[Shanna-like-Banana]

These are tough decisions, sometimes writing it all down (like you did) and reading it aloud makes you realize that the answer is right in front of you.

I'm sure that you absolutely love your family, but (you) literally cannot afford to pay to be footing someone else's bill. They made their own before you started paying and they can make their own way once you stop.

It's time to start separating family & finances. If you're sister is your babysitter, are you paying her for that, as well as the apt rent ? Would it be more cost effective to pay a daycare directly and cut that cost ? Or are you paying the apt rent in lieu of a babysitter salary ?

 

[gottalovepluto]

...My DH never thinks about finances -- I take care of everything/ watch everything. I remind him that it is not just mortage but taxes, heating oil, home repairs etc. Not sure if I am over worried about how we will pay for things...

You have a lot going on here but I can solidly say you are NOT over worried. With a DH who doesn't think about finances your family's finances are ALL on you. Jobs get lost out of the blue, car accidents happen, and odds say your parents health will deteriorate and as such their medical/care bills will start up/increase and it's amazing what insurance doesn't cover once you get in the thick of that. And your family will look at you to just make it happen. That's a lot of stress!! You are basically the safety net not just for your immediate family but also your sister and your parents. You are financially responsible for a lot of people and very appropriately need to be very careful. Alternatives to buying a house and remodeling your parent's house are renting a house. Maybe you discover you can afford to buy if you sell the apartment but if you can't sell the apartment all you can afford is to rent/remodel your parent's place.

 

[scrapquitler]

What would you do?

I live in expensive NYC and am in my 40s. Want to move to a town in CT. My parents have a home there and live in NYC, so sometimes we go out there and stay with them. I pay for their lawn services already as I did not want my dad to be doing the lawn in the heat at his age! We also help with fixing things up and gardening (my husband mainly).

So, our financial situation is: I have large school loans, we bought an apt 13 years ago, and my sister now lives in it but since she cant afford the whole thing (about 3K per month) we still pay 1K per month and my parents pay 1 K per month. So thats a mortgage we have. Its only a 1 bedroom so thats why I moved out. Our current rent we are paying is about 4.2K per month and its a good deal for NYC (2 bedroom and 2 bathroom!!!).

Our DD12 is in private school (since kindergarten) as we thought that would be best. In NYC it is SUPER expensive. That is why we waited almost 10 years to have a 2nd child -- the cost!!!! And we cant afford to live here AND send 2 kids to school.

Thats also why we want to move to CT. Good schools (public!) for our 2 kids. And hopefully better quality of life.

So that I dont have to commute 4 hours per day, I applied for and found jobs near CT. They both pay more than my current job ( I wont start until next spring). In fact, DH can stay at home and we will be making more than we are now (for one of the jobs). My husband makes a lot less than I do so I would love for him to stay home and help manage the household.

So.. we thought about buying a house. Because of our expenses, we have not saved enough for 20% DOWN for most of the houses in the town, but I am trying to look into the less expensive smaller houses. And really, other than the private school and our disney trips, we generally live below our means. I cook dinner after work, no housekeeper, my sister helps with childcare, many of my clothes are 20 years old, aways buy on sale. So we have discussed just adding a room and bathroom to my parents house ( I think the money we have saved will pay for it). This way we have help at home, no huge mortgage, can pay off loans and other mortgage, and save for both DD's college and retirement (and Disney vacations!!!!!). I just feel that taking a mortgage now means I will not be done paying it until my early 70s! But then, living with my parents is not that easy. Also , my mom can be difficult/annoying. I know that selling our apartment may be hard so I cant rely on that to help come up with downpayment. If I buy a house in the same town, I will still have to be taking care of 2 houses. My dad is coming up with ideas on where to build the addition already (he has no idea of what is actually feasible and is just coming up with ideas - some of which will obviously not work) but my DH is saying he wants to just buy a house. Also, I am guessing my sister will want to just move in with us. She is over every day having dinner with us but does spend a lot of time with my kids as DH and I work full time and she only works 2 days per week. My DH never thinks about finances -- I take care of everything/ watch everything. I remind him that it is not just mortage but taxes, heating oil, home repairs etc. Not sure if I am over worried about how we will pay for things...

I live in CT, and to be honest, if we didn't have family here and Dh's business wasn't here, we would be OUT OF HERE ASAP. The business environment sucks, the taxes are ridiculous, and every other week the state is adding new and more taxes (tolls on almost all the highways seems to be the next inevitable thing). Property taxes, car taxes, yuck. I would never suggest moving to CT to anyone now.

 

[barkley]

I live in CT, and to be honest, if we didn't have family here and Dh's business wasn't here, we would be OUT OF HERE ASAP. The business environment sucks, the taxes are ridiculous, and every other week the state is adding new and more taxes (tolls on almost all the highways seems to be the next inevitable thing). Property taxes, car taxes, yuck. I would never suggest moving to CT to anyone now.

you would know this b/c you live there-is ct a state wherein the o/p doing a remodel on the parent's home is going to stick them with higher property taxes?

if that's the case and the op is already paying for the parent's lawn service then that will be another cost that needs to be considered (as well as the very likely increase in homeowner's insurance premiums for the improvement).

 

[scrapquitler]

you would know this b/c you live there-is ct a state wherein the o/p doing a remodel on the parent's home is going to stick them with higher property taxes?

if that's the case and the op is already paying for the parent's lawn service then that will be another cost that needs to be considered (as well as the very likely increase in homeowner's insurance premiums for the improvement).

Property taxes on houses are based on a percentage (70% I think?) of the assessed value of the house at the time of the revaluation. Taxes are figured at the mill rate, and the mill rate can vary wildly from town to town. In our town, the mill rate is 28.6400 The town my brother live in has a mill rate around 42.00. The revaluation happens about every 5 years, depending on which town you live in. Improvements usually don't catch up by adding to the tax burden until the next revaluation cycle, I think, but I'm not positive because we haven't done any improvements that would change the home's value.

 

[disneymagicgirl]

I am just puzzled by all of this.
Why is your sis living in an apartment she can't afford and that you could obviously rent out and be making money instead of spending and extra $1k a month?

Im unsure if you have more than one job. If I had that much debt in loans or anything you better believe my husband would be working as well. I can't understand if you will save money by him staying home or you will be making the same as now in your other job so you just want him to stay home.

Why would your sister assume she can just move in. Is she in college? Working? She would leave everything and just move?


I do not want to judge but i also think you are asking because you want others opinions. Please sit down with your husband and figure out what is best for you two and your kids. Not what is best for your parents or siblings.

Agree with the bolded. Can we get more details about this. I can't imagine why you and your parents would be supporting your (sounds like) adult sister over your own family.
I'd unload the apartment asap, even if it is at a loss, which is hard to believe in the current economy/real estate market. We owned a condo and sold it at a loss a couple years ago just to be rid of it. So there will be $12k a year saved right there that can be thrown at your student loans.

 

[TheSouthernBelle]

I think many of the PP on here hit the nail on the head, DON'T do it! It's not a temporary situation to TBH doesn't sound like it would be an easy thing if you're already finding reasons why it would not work living with family. There are too may what if's regarding living with family it's not worth it.

Do yourselves a favor and do a little google research and take a look at Dave Ramsey and learn a little bit about his practices, your husband should be way more involved in your finances, that's a huge red flag. Regardless of the high cost of living in NYC, you should not own something that is losing money which it sounds like it is since your sister only pays $1K and your parents pay $1K and the mortgage is $3K, math doesn't work- you need to sell that place ASAP. I have a lot of extended family that live in NY and only one moved out to CT for the cost savings; she is very happy with the decision they made for their kids schooling but overall, she still finds CT to be pricey. It's great you got a job that will pay more, that's a plus but having your husband stay home is a big life change for both of you. It takes a special man to be the primary caregiver and only you two know if that's doable and what he's cut out to do. Some guys embrace it and others go crazy. My husband is home from work when my girls get out of school and he is a great stay at home dad. Our friend doesn't work and is home with the kids, he's a great dad, but not a good stay at home dad. It's the same as women, some women are great moms but make crappy stay at home moms, it's just how it goes. You can give it a whirl but having those loans, it sounds like he should be working to get those paid off ASAP and save for your downpayment.

I would recommend renting when you move until you decide where exactly in CT you want to be. We moved states and were glad we did that, it gave us a chance to really see what a place is like and then you don't have to time one mortgage closing with the other. Also, this will give you more time for your downpayment savings. Good luck whatever you all decide but do definitely check out Dave.