Trying to decide.... (long)

[LB002]

Does your sister have special needs of some sort that necessitates you and your parents supporting her financially? If yes, then my advice may be not relevant. But it seems like her situation is not healthy and you are all impeding her ability to adult. The whole situation sounds very messy and I'm interested in your husband's perspective.

Step 1: Take control of your familys (you, your spouse and your children) finances. That means sell or rent for market value your NYC appartment. If your parents want to support your sister that is their business, but she is not your child or spouse and you don't need to spend $12k+/yr supporting her.

Step 2: Evaluate with your husband what your financial goals are and make a plan. This has nothing to do with your parents or sister. You may want to see a financial advisor to help plan.

Step 3: Determine whether you want to rent or buy your new home. Your husband does not want to live with your parents, so even if you are on the deed to the house you should NOT be living there is you want to stay married.

I would not spend a dime renovating a home I did not own unless my parents or dependent needed the financial help for extenuating circumstances. I would not have an able bodied adult family member living in my home rent free either.

 

[kymom99]

Adding to the subject of your sister, I had a house that I rented to my niece. We were in a situation where I felt we would have needed to move out of our house before we could get it ready to sell. Then my mom passed away and we had the opportunity to buy her house. Old house in a nice neighborhood near my son's private school. My niece and her boyfriend were living in a very small apartment and were interested in finding a house but had limited funds. I knew all this and having her rent with the intention of buying seemed like a win for both of us. I charged her very little rent thinking it would be short term. Well, they got married and had 2 kids and were still paying me peanuts to rent my house. After 4 years I realized they weren't going to take the initiative to purchase without some encouragement. So I finally said look, I don't want to be a long term landlord. If you want to buy it, get a move on. If not let me know so I can prepare to sell. They got busy and bought it. It's not easy to do with family. I feel for you. But as others have said you have to look out for yourself and your family.

 

[kniquy]

Also , my mom can be difficult/annoying. I know that selling our apartment may be hard so I cant rely on that to help come up with downpayment.

What jumped out at me are a couple of things -- the mother comment is one. I love my mother but could never live with her or on the same property. This will likely only ruin your relationship.

Another thing is that you are funding your sisters housing so basically she is living outside of her means if both you and your parents are paying for her to live where she is. As hard as it might be, you need to take care of you, your husband and your kids. Your best option would be to sell the apartment she is living in, which sounds like it would provide your down payment for the home you need and want for your family. Give her fair warning that you plan to sell so that she can either buy it from you (likely with help from your parents) or she can find a new place to live, or maybe she also needs to make a decision to move out. I can totally see helping family for a short time BUT she is taking advantage of you and your parents and it sounds like this a situation with no end in sight. All you are doing is enabling her to live outside her means and she needs to learn how to live on what she earns.

To get a good sense on exactly where you want to live you should rent for a year, sell your apartments and maybe have your parents assist with taking care of the kids a couple days a week so that your husband can work part time too. With your funds being so stretched are you able to save anything for retirement - that needs to be an important focus as well.

 

[ENJDisneyFan]

I hope OP returns at some point to fill us in on the sister!

 

[kathy884]

Lots of other posters alluded to this, but big time consider your relationship with your husband in all of this. You probably have a great relationship, and it's a very important item that you may be taking for granted. If he is not keen on moving in with your parents, that would end that thought for me. I'd divorce my husband before I'd move in with his family. Also, I would be very cautious about your husband not working (his self esteem and your relationship) -- maybe my concern is because I have a dear friend who encouraged her husband to stay home to help with the young kids (she had a high powered career) and although who knows, what seemed like a very solid marriage disintegrated and she is a single mom now.

 

[nycdisneygal]

Dsis has a PhD in psych. and teaches college classes at 2 colleges but as an adjunct not as a full time professor (those positions have been hard to find as the full time professors do not retire as they have many benefits for little work) and also rents office space to start her own practice but that has been slow to start. She has helped a lot with my kids and they love her and miss her when she is not around. When I used to have to work at night and DH worked in another state, she would stay overnight at my home with the baby. When our babysitter moved last year, Dsis took care of DD2 all summer since she could not get a summer class to teach, and they had such a good time that she wanted to continue on her days off this fall. Since DH and I get home relatively late and then get busy with cooking, cleaning etc she helps make sure older DD gets her homework done etc. She has a bunch of health problems-- nothing major but makes day to day difficult for her (GI issues, she is significantly underweight without trying, severe eczema, low bone density and breaks bones often and gets chronic shoulder dislocation).
Sometimes DH talks about moving to my parents and even makes plans of what he wants to add and work on, and sometimes he says he doesnt... We currently both work full time and I feel our quality of life is low. THe job I may take pays more than I our combined 2 current salaries. DH hates his job, and I would love him to find something he likes and even try to start his own thing if he wants/work partly at home if possible. I have been working extra to try to add more to my school loans and I just got it down to 99, 600 last month!!! Woohoo!!! We have zero credit card debt--- we buy only what we can and pay off every month and use those points for plane tix.
So, I don't know.. Am looking into PMI as we can maybe put 15% down on a nicer house... Still taxes etc in CT are high, but my DD12's tuition in NYC is 50K per year (kindergarten through 12th) per year so 2 kids would be 100 K!!!!!!!! So I think we can still get a lot for our money in CT. Public schools are really good there (yes, Fairfield County). Plus gosh summer camp is so much cheaper in CT!!
Sadly, I see so many foreclosures in CT, and would hate to end up in that spot.
Yes I am currently maxing out my 403b and have money in a 457.

 

[disneymagicgirl]

Dsis has a PhD in psych. and teaches college classes at 2 colleges but as an adjunct not as a full time professor (those positions have been hard to find as the full time professors do not retire as they have many benefits for little work) and also rents office space to start her own practice but that has been slow to start. She has helped a lot with my kids and they love her and miss her when she is not around. When I used to have to work at night and DH worked in another state, she would stay overnight at my home with the baby. When our babysitter moved last year, Dsis took care of DD2 all summer since she could not get a summer class to teach, and they had such a good time that she wanted to continue on her days off this fall. Since DH and I get home relatively late and then get busy with cooking, cleaning etc she helps make sure older DD gets her homework done etc. She has a bunch of health problems-- nothing major but makes day to day difficult for her (GI issues, she is significantly underweight without trying, severe eczema, low bone density and breaks bones often and gets chronic shoulder dislocation).
Sometimes DH talks about moving to my parents and even makes plans of what he wants to add and work on, and sometimes he says he doesnt... We currently both work full time and I feel our quality of life is low. THe job I may take pays more than I our combined 2 current salaries. DH hates his job, and I would love him to find something he likes and even try to start his own thing if he wants/work partly at home if possible. I have been working extra to try to add more to my school loans and I just got it down to 99, 600 last month!!! Woohoo!!! We have zero credit card debt--- we buy only what we can and pay off every month and use those points for plane tix.
So, I don't know.. Am looking into PMI as we can maybe put 15% down on a nicer house... Still taxes etc in CT are high, but my DD12's tuition in NYC is 50K per year (kindergarten through 12th) per year so 2 kids would be 100 K!!!!!!!! So I think we can still get a lot for our money in CT. Public schools are really good there (yes, Fairfield County). Plus gosh summer camp is so much cheaper in CT!!
Sadly, I see so many foreclosures in CT, and would hate to end up in that spot.
Yes I am currently maxing out my 403b and have money in a 457.

OMGosh that tuition!!! That is more than I pay a year for DD19 to go to college and room/board/meals!!! Holy moly, I cannot even imagine.

So would your sis be willing to move to CT with you? That way you could still sell the apartment and exchange free room for her and she cont to help with your kids? You'd still save the $12k a year that way.

I don't know anything about CT real estate, and I am guessing it is vastly diff from TN real estate, so I have no advise on that, other than weigh renting temporarily vs buying.

If you don't have tuition to the tune of $50k a year, then you could theoretically pay off your student loans in 2 years, then buy a house.

 

[nycdisneygal]

OMGosh that tuition!!! That is more than I pay a year for DD19 to go to college and room/board/meals!!! Holy moly, I cannot even imagine.

So would your sis be willing to move to CT with you? That way you could still sell the apartment and exchange free room for her and she cont to help with your kids? You'd still save the $12k a year that way.

I don't know anything about CT real estate, and I am guessing it is vastly diff from TN real estate, so I have no advise on that, other than weigh renting temporarily vs buying.

If you don't have tuition to the tune of $50k a year, then you could theoretically pay off your student loans in 2 years, then buy a house.

Yes she would likely do that and would commute to NYC for the days she needs to work. She had looked into jobs in CT but the requirements are different and even a school psychologist job had extra requirements (teaching certificate!). Yes NYC school is like college. DD's classmates are so wealthy I feel bad for her but luckily she is quirky so doenst notice as much. Her classmates do the DIsney VIP tour every day of their trip! LOL!!! I think we made a financial mistake by staying in NYC so many years but my family is here.

 

[kymom99]

OMGosh that tuition!!! That is more than I pay a year for DD19 to go to college and room/board/meals!!! Holy moly, I cannot even imagine.

So would your sis be willing to move to CT with you? That way you could still sell the apartment and exchange free room for her and she cont to help with your kids? You'd still save the $12k a year that way.

I don't know anything about CT real estate, and I am guessing it is vastly diff from TN real estate, so I have no advise on that, other than weigh renting temporarily vs buying.

If you don't have tuition to the tune of $50k a year, then you could theoretically pay off your student loans in 2 years, then buy a house.

Maybe you could find a mother/daughter or whatever you call it. Then she could live with you but still have a separate space.

It sounds like a complex situation to be sure. And it blows my mind how vastly different expenses can be from one place to another. At the highest, my son's private tuition was just under $7000 a year! His college tuition is less than $10.000. Maybe you all could move to Kentucky!

I hope you figure out what will work best for you. I know owning a home is your goal and I'm sure that will happen soon for you. You seem to have a handle on your spending.

 

[nycdisneygal]

Maybe you could find a mother/daughter or whatever you call it. Then she could live with you but still have a separate space.

It sounds like a complex situation to be sure. And it blows my mind how vastly different expenses can be from one place to another. At the highest, my son's private tuition was just under $7000 a year! His college tuition is less than $10.000. Maybe you all could move to Kentucky!

I hope you figure out what will work best for you. I know owning a home is your goal and I'm sure that will happen soon for you. You seem to have a handle on your spending.

I think its called in-law suite ! DD12 wants to share a room with my Dsis though ! DD12 is adamant that she wants to live in my parents home - she doesnt want a new or separate home. Its sweet she has always been attached to that house.
Yes, NYC prices will boggle your mind. Her summer camp was 7,000 last year (8 weeks). I heard the other camps the kids do here are 15 -20 K !!
THis year she is exploring NYC with Dsis while DD2 is with babysitter. I am using that 7 K for our disney trip! LOL!!!!!!!
Disney food and drink prices are not so expensive when I compare to here.

 

[TwoMisfits]

Compared to your current situation, it does sound like CT couldn't be more financially crushing!

And it does sound like you and your sister are very tight, and do what you need for each other...and your sister and daughter are also tight...something else to consider. I'm assuming your spouse is also a fan of your sis...

But, since she doesn't live with you now, but you think you want her to in the future, I might not just look for an in-law suite, but I'd look for an actually separated housing situation - one where they had a fully separated rentable basement, or a 2nd smaller house on property, or something similar. Just like you're not sure if your mom would drive your spouse nuts, you can't be sure than 24-7-365 with your sister would go any better long term. Plus, if you choose, you can even have a separateness (even written in contract) that can protect you if you (hopefully never) have a falling out.

PS - Even if you stay in NYC, I'd leave the private school and its insane tuition. You can't really afford it, not with where you are at in your 40s and your current student loans/short-term savings. With a part-time college professor for a sister who already loves hanging with your kid, you have more options to educate your child than whatever failing public system you are trying to avoid.

 

[barkley]

i just want to say that after reading your subsequent posts that i even more strongly encourage you AND your dh to get financial counseling.

I just got it down to 99, 600 last month

Am looking into PMI as we can maybe put 15% down on a nicer house.

summer camp was 7,000 last year (8 weeks). I heard the other camps the kids do here are 15 -20 K !!
THis year she is exploring NYC with Dsis while DD2 is with babysitter. I am using that 7 K for our disney trip! LOL!

i can't fathom being almost 6 figures in student loan debt, hoping i could come up with a down payment for a home and then earmarking $7000 in saved monies for a disney trip. that 7K could go a long way towards a down payment (NO ONE who can avoid pmi should take it on in favor of funding a vacation) or it could be used to reduce your student debt by 7%.

i don't know, maybe because you make a large income/deal with large dollar figures your situation doesn't seem to you as startling as it does to me but i think a financial adviser could put it into perspective for you-and get your dh up and running on your household's financial standing.

my sister now lives in it but since she cant afford the whole thing (about 3K per month) we still pay 1K per month and my parents pay 1 K per month.

sis has a PhD in psych. and teaches college classes at 2 colleges but as an adjunct not as a full time professor

also rents office space to start her own practice but that has been slow to start

Yes she would likely do that and would commute to NYC for the days she needs to work. She had looked into jobs in CT but the requirements are different and even a school psychologist job had extra requirements (teaching certificate!)

if you go to a financial adviser try to get your sister to one as well b/c you and your parents are not doing her any favors by enabling her to work only 2 days per week by virtue of financial support that it seems you NEED to pay off your own debts/secure your OWN home. i don't even want to think about what her student loan debt must be if yours is so high, if she doesn't get her financial house in shape soon she may be looking to you/your parents/potentially your kids to meet her needs for the rest of her life.

if you and your parents want to help her financially i would like to suggest that you look into what a teaching certificate entails in ct-with a phd and existing teaching experience she could likely get one within a few years, and w/her only working 2 days per week using the wealth of free time she has towards that goal is a much better investment of you/your parent's monies.

 

[kaytieeldr]

So would your sis be willing to move to CT with you?

Better might be for the sister to move into the parents' house, while OP finds a home convenient to it. Sister might also want to reevaluate or expand on her career options.

 

[StacyStrong]

i just want to say that after reading your subsequent posts that i even more strongly encourage you AND your dh to get financial counseling.

i can't fathom being almost 6 figures in student loan debt, hoping i could come up with a down payment for a home and then earmarking $7000 in saved monies for a disney trip. that 7K could go a long way towards a down payment (NO ONE who can avoid pmi should take it on in favor of funding a vacation) or it could be used to reduce your student debt by 7%.

i don't know, maybe because you make a large income/deal with large dollar figures your situation doesn't seem to you as startling as it does to me but i think a financial adviser could put it into perspective for you-and get your dh up and running on your household's financial standing.

As someone with a large student loan debt, it's not feasible to never go on vacation while you're paying it off. Granted, 7k seems high to me, but I don't have a family. If she is making her payments on time, vacations should still be had imo. It's soul sucking to do nothing but work all the time.

 

[tink89]

After reading your replies I am still puzzled.

why is sister renting space if she can't even pay her own rent?

Why are you paying $7k for summer camp?

Why would you take a vacation that cost $7k when you need money for a down payment. Why not something closer to home or less expensive while you get that down payment?

My DD10 would also love to move in with her Grandparents and liver her fairy tale life of doing anything she wants like when she is under their care. But even though i love my parents dearly and see them already 2 or 3 times a week does not mean i would move in with them just because DD wanted to. Only if i had to and it would be for the shortest time possible.

I definitely see that there is money that can be saved for a down payment, but you choose to spend elsewhere. Sometimes in life we have to cut back on things we like doing in order to achieve something else.

 

[barkley]

As someone with a large student loan debt, it's not feasible to never go on vacation while you're paying it off. Granted, 7k seems high to me, but I don't have a family. If she is making her payments on time, vacations should still be had imo. It's soul sucking to do nothing but work all the time.

i agree but when a person is concerned about where/how they will come up with a down payment for a home and they've got student debt, an existing mortgage they are concerned about being able to get out of and other expenses of the magnitude the op has listed it just seems that spending what could go to those financial concerns is a sound financial choice.

 

[starry_solo]

Ok, here are my thoughts about your financial situation.

1. I would tell sis that she can stay with you the two days/nights that she is teaching in NY. Then she should be spending the other 5 days in CT with the parents in their home. Again, this is assuming that both households have room. OR, she moves in with you since she seems to be doing a lot of daycare/taking care of the kids and you can try to make a private area for her in the living/family room.
2. Sell the apartment or lease it out. but there is no point in your sister having a separate household from you if she is over at your place for hours on end, daily. That, and she cannot afford the apartment on her own. If your sis plans to move to CT with you, how much extra schooling will she need in order to be able to do what she wants to do. With a Ph.D. in psychology, she wants to be a therapist? Has she looked into working for social services with that? Or an agency that social services contracts with? They need a lot of therapists in family law and child protective services.
3. Private school: do they have tuition scholarships? Having never lived in NYC, what is so wrong with public schools?
4. Talk to DH about whether he wants to give up his job; if not, would he be willing to commute or is he able to find a job in CT as well?

I do not find the $100K in school loan debt to be that bad for two of you (or even one of you).

 

[kaytieeldr]

I do not find the $100K in school loan debt to be that bad for two of you (or even one of you).

$100K (plus, since she just got it down under that amount) is only $25K/year - but the OP is in her forties. How old are the loans and how much were they when she graduated?I

It's also smart to have one or more very serious talks with her husband regarding how he feels about staying at home.

 

[wenrob]

As someone with a large student loan debt, it's not feasible to never go on vacation while you're paying it off. Granted, 7k seems high to me, but I don't have a family. If she is making her payments on time, vacations should still be had imo. It's soul sucking to do nothing but work all the time.

50k for private school
12k for rent on a place she doesn’t live in
7k for summer camp
7k for vacation
That’s 76k in one year. She’d have to take off 1.5 years, maybe 2 to be free and clear of student loan debt. Not one of those things listed is a ‘must.’ I’m not a hardcore debt free kind of person and I’m a big believer in vacations but the OP is talking about taking on PMI and having her DH quit his job when she has $99,600 in student loans in her 40s. I agree with barkley, a financial planner is needed here.

 

[deedeezee]

Given OP's description of the sister, it sounds like any $ they earmark toward her rent or anything else is (IMHO) a way to repay her for the many things she does to assist with child care/making family life work. Totally seems reasonable to me.

OP, I have friends in NYC, the $50K doesn't surprise me but you have to keep in mind that many people on this board consider that to be an annual salary, not private school tuition. So their understanding/perspective is going to be a little different. My friends in NY pay $5k a year for parking, and it isn't even that close to where they live!! NYC is expensive. I think moving to CT is a great goal, and your exploration of how best to do that is a great idea. But I would get that apartment listed ASAP.

@starry_solo I'm not the best to answer this, but while there are some good public schools in NYC, the process is not like it is in many parts of the country. For example, in middle school and high school, you apply for a spot, which involves submitting an application, ranking preferred schools, etc. That is, you can apply and not get into one of the good schools and get stuck with a school that you don't want to send your kid to (for a variety of reasons).