Trusting Someone

[mousehockey37]

That isn’t the OP’s decision to make. In another year, her daughter is free to marry whomever she wishes.

That's true, but they ain't there yet.

 

[MamaBelle4]

That's true, but they ain't there yet.

Yes, but if OP pushes too hard that could push them right to another state to tie the knot.

 

[J'aime Paris]

As the mother of a 19 year old daughter, I'd be out of my mind if this was my kid!!

Something seems off...
You stated that DD moved in with the boyfriend, and that you weren't asked, but told. (Granted she's over 18...I get it's her right)
You also say that you talk to DD daily, even multiple times a day.
She never bothered to mentioned it to you?
Doesn't add up!

NO WAY would my DD ever disrespect me in that fashion.

 

[mousehockey37]

Yes, but if OP pushes too hard that could push them right to another state to tie the knot.

It is a sticky situation. Especially with possible abuse and other things. Hopefully the daughter will figure this all out and make an informed decision.

 

[luvsJack]

Im sorry I really am not intentionally picking on you, but I’m so confused by your comments.

He pays for rent, utilities, and her food but you say she hasn’t depended on him for money? Rent, utilities, and food means he’s basically supporting her completely. If she’s not paying 50% of these basic living expenses I would say she’s absolutely dependent on him.

She pays for own gas, whatever she needs for school, her food while at school, her personal needs, a credit card bill and her phone. He pays the rest. He was already paying rent and utilities. So honestly nothing has changed for him. He doesn’t or didn’t give her money for anything. I guess now he does since she is on his account but not sure how much she actually uses it.

 

[luvsJack]

As the mother of a 19 year old daughter, I'd be out of my mind if this was my kid!!

Something seems off...
You stated that DD moved in with the boyfriend, and that you weren't asked, but told. (Granted she's over 18...I get it's her right)
You also say that you talk to DD daily, even multiple times a day.
She never bothered to mentioned it to you?
Doesn't add up!

NO WAY would my DD ever disrespect me in that fashion.[/QUOTE


It wasn’t as disrespectful as it sounds.

We talk all the time. Yes I knew she was planning to move in with him before she did. But she didn’t say “can I”. We knew it was coming and dh and I discussed it and decided not to fight it.

 

[Action City]

As the mother of a 19 year old daughter, I'd be out of my mind if this was my kid!!

Something seems off...
You stated that DD moved in with the boyfriend, and that you weren't asked, but told. (Granted she's over 18...I get it's her right)
You also say that you talk to DD daily, even multiple times a day.
She never bothered to mentioned it to you?
Doesn't add up!

NO WAY would my DD ever disrespect me in that fashion.

A 19 year old doesn’t need parental permission before making living arrangements.

 

[luvsJack]

Indeed. If she is getting a "refund" from the college - that is most likely from state funded Pell Grants, not a scholarship. It certainly can't be enough to support them for long.

It doesn’t support them at all. She uses it for things she needs or whatever or puts it back to save. He doesn’t have access to it.

Like I said she had a job last semester and paid whatever with that. She may have to use some of it this semester but I know she is planning to put most of it in savings.

 

[J'aime Paris]

A 19 year old doesn’t need parental permission before making living arrangements.

Read my post, I said it's her right.

 

[J'aime Paris]

Do as you see fit. Your DD, your life.
"I'd pick that fight" about her moving in with him...given the circumstances you've described in numerous previous posts. Needing to watch for physical abuse and the sort....

(I've noticed you're very quick to defend DD's decisions every step of the way, mature or not so much.
But find every opportunity to throw her boyfriend and his mom into a poor light. Did you come for advise or just support for your viewpoint?)

 

[luvsJack]

Do as you see fit. Your DD, your life.
"I'd pick that fight" about her moving in with him...given the circumstances you've described in numerous previous posts. Needing to watch for physical abuse and the sort....

(I've noticed you're very quick to defend DD's decisions every step of the way, mature or not so much.
But find every opportunity to throw her boyfriend and his mom into a poor light. Did you come for advise or just support for your viewpoint?)

Not I am not defending her. Just being truthful.

I have been given no reason to watch for physical abuse. I would be truly shocked if it did go there.

I am not saying we made the best decision. But at the time it was what we made. Can’t change it now. We had no reason to have any doubt about him when it all took place. We didn’t allow our daughter to be taken by wolves.

She met him a year ago through her brother. About 2 months later we went down and met him. He and dh talked. Me and him talked. We met his mom and his sister. We met their friends (who are also ds’s friends). Nothing seemed amiss. He has always seemed to adore her and treat her well. They dated for 5 months before she moved in with him.

Is she fully mature? No she is a normal 19 year old college student. She makes good grades. She doesn’t have a job at the moment but she didn’t quit, the job simply ended. They made the decision for her to spend this semester getting things in order to be ready to work in her field when she graduates.

I am not sure where I defended her decisions. If he is controlling like I am afraid, then she made a bad choice in who she fell in love with. But I can’t say we all saw it coming a year ago. We didn’t.

 

[mummabear]

Oh Lordy, I am making a mess of this secret stuff.

Ok it is my daughter and her fiancé who she lives with. I was contacted by someone who never said he cheated but that the whole time they have been together, he has been trying to get back with his ex. That is the part I didn’t need an answer on.

We talked to them together. We never talked to him alone. He is mad that we didn’t just talk to dd. But funny enough, the last time we wanted to see dd alone to talk about school and what was going on at the time, he almost had a panic attack. Waited until they weren’t together and called and told her she needed to move home so he wouldn’t be blamed for messing up her education-which wasn’t even close to what we were wanting to talk to her about. Had her just about hysterical. When we have gone down to see her when he is working nights, he wants it to be that we meet him to go eat on his lunch hour.

His ex claims he was mentally abusive part of which was cutting her off from her friends and family. While dd has not been cut off from any of us, we have seen some behavior we questioned. And what the ex related seemed to fill in those answers. For instance, he had to work Christmas Eve. She was coming to her grandmother’s. He got mad because she was leaving an hour before he went to work to get there. She left crying because he made her feel guilty. Other times he has made her feel like she couldn’t spend the gas money to come see us. We agree to put gas in her car and he backs off.

Since we basically have to go to her, it would have been impossible to see her without him.

We really don’t care if he was talking to his ex. That is for dd to decide if she trusts him or if it is true.

And both of them said immediately that they knew this was being claimed( that he was talking to his ex) Ok, no problem. Everything is good. And then he wanted to know why we believed the person telling me over him. I told him we didn’t. But some other things that were said had us concerned and we felt it necessary to talk to them. That is when he went out and called his mom, cane back in and went to the bedroom and wouldn’t come out. I never had a chance to say anything else.

We do care if he is abusive in any way.
I did talk to Dd alone about it the next day.

Just a few months ago we really liked this guy. Thought he was great for dd. Truly felt this relationship was great. And then other stuff started going on. She had a friend that both she and ds were very close to. Well the fiancé decided he doesn’t like the friend for one reason or another and they are no longer friends. We haven’t said anything one way or the other about it. Ds has questioned it as he is still friends with the guy but I told him he had to ask dd.

Now the fiancé has decided he doesn’t like Ds. But when asked why, he doesn’t actually have an answer. I think the last one that was given was he is disrespectful. How? “It’s not worth explaing”. ????? So far dd’s answer has been “well he is my brother so get over it”.

The problem with not dealing with this,imo, is it’s not going away. This proof has been offered to several people, ds included. Dd and her bf, do not have anything to do with the people who have this “proof” but they do hang out with and are friends with a lot of the same people. (His decision that he doesn’t like ds seems to coincide with finding out ds has been offered the proof although Ds has not seen it and said specifically he didn’t want to see it).

And according to dd, his mom is going to handle it by getting revenge and hurting them like they hurt her son. Ok, not something I want dd to be a part of.

I spent part of yesterday with both of them. He doesn’t act mad in any way but keeps making jokes about cheating. And making cracks toward ds. But I have been told that none of this can be discussed as it will cause a panic attack.

Part of our issue with dealing with this is we have sort of been down this road before. When ds married the first time we had some strong suspicions about the girl. We actually saw her with some guys when ds was out of town one night. Ds would not see it or hear it. They got married. 5 years later, his whole word got torn out from under him.

The decision is whether to sign for her to get married. She can’t marry in this state until she is 21. That will put the wedding off another year which is what we have decided to do.

So my suggestion is that you make it very clear that you are on her team. That you will believe what she tells you, and support her however she needs it.
One of my best friends married a guy like this, she felt very trapped. While he never hit her, he completely dominated her-she was scared of him. He was very controlling about everything-who she saw, what money was spent on, her career.
She was too scared to leave him, from the outside this guy seemed pretty decent and she thought no one would believe her, he also went out of his way to destroy her when she finally did leave.

 

[luvsJack]

I’m just trying to show you the other side of the coin because you seem to think he’s totally out of line on some things that I think are reasonable.
-her uncle the preacher: I personally would have felt uncomfortable with my husband’s family presiding over our wedding. In our case it involved a few sessions of premarital counseling and I wouldn’t have felt comfortable talking about private person relationship issues with Uncle Bob, the guy I’d see at the family reunion every year.
-having a night wedding: depends on the time of year. A 7 pm or later wedding would be too late for me, and a 5 hour reception is the norm around here. Dinner, dancing, and celebrating usually goes from 7-12 with the older folks leaving around 10:30. Why is suggesting she rethink the idea so egregious?
-The location- look at the other side of it. If I was only getting 25% of the guests it would be important to me that it was somewhere that they could come. My husband has a very small family, it was important to me to find ways to accommodate his guests because I didn’t want him to feel like a stranger at his own wedding.
-suggesting that things be cheaper: that was my husband’s (and my own mothers) refrain throughout the entire planning process. Saying let’s not bankrupt ourselves, and your parents, is really reasonable.

You seem so dug in that you are finding fault with everything and that’s where you get into trouble because it makes you look like the unreasonable one to your daughter.

And I thank you. That is just what I am trying not to do. Dd truly loves this guy and honestly I can’t say he doesn’t love her.

Through most of this I have told them that the decisions are their’s. It’s when I see the things that I know are important to dd being dismissed that I get angry. I haven’t said anything to them or dd except to tell dd not to give in and change what she truly wants.

Honestly I am not planning a wedding. I am trying to wait it out. But if we get full on with it, most of the decisions will be their’s.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I am not going to slam the OP, not at all.
Even though I do see some things, some attitudes and comments, that I very much question.

I can accept that maybe she did rush to accept the relationship before there was enough there to go on, much less to 'trust'.
While the DD is an adult, I can't say that I would have been so accepting. Not at all....
Not when she has come so far, was so close to graduating and gaining some independence and maturity. Those would have been the things that I would have focused on, and encouraged and was happy about. While discouraging any quick move-in.

There are several little aspects here that I am seeing that I would question and not agree with.

BUT, having said that....
The OP, like all of us, has to operate in the here and now....
She needs to take a good hard look at how she has handled this (including even ASKING should she trust him...)
And how the best way is for her to move forward.

OP, I would make it clear to your DD, and everyone, AS YOU SEEM TO BE DOING, that you and the rest of your DD's family are 'there', and you are not going anywhere.
I would continue for you and your family to be in close contact...
Plan family events...
If that might involve her (or them) traveling to your place... the ongoing agreement should be established that you all would cover the gas, fill up the car...
There would be an open and enthusiastic ongoing invitation... "Come on over... We will fill up the car for you to cover the gas!!!!"

Do not let any teeny tiny hint of 'isolation' creep in.
Which, of course, would be very easy to creep in, considering she is now living with him, an hour away from her family and comfort zone.

This, I think, might be the best and most effective thing that you can do.
Stay present, and stay positive!

 

[NHdisneylover]

luvsjack, I am afraid I might come off harsh here, please know that I mean this in a kind way and only to be helpful because it does sound like your daughter might be involved in a relationship which might turn into something dangerous as time goes on.

My recollection of your postings over the years is that there seems to often be drama involving your Kids, or their friends, and you have a tendency to insert yourself into that drama---especially with your daughter (I recall lots of threads about Show choir and the group of kids in that).

Now, reading this thread, it still seems you are highly invovled in things that you probably shouldn't be (you know how your DD and her boyfriend divvy up their finances, you know far too much about all sorts of wedding planning details, etc). It seems that your daughter hardly has any part of her own life that you and your son are not heavily involved in. And you talk to her multiple times every, single, day.

On the surface that may sound wonderful, and loving and supportive, but it can really be smothering to a Young Person---especially to one who loves you and does not want to hurt you by telling you to back off.

The one Young woman I know who ended up in a relationship that was rapdily moving towards emotional abuse (and came THIS close to marrying him at 19 and moving to another country with him), was also super close to a mom who was ALWAYS there, always calling, always expecting calls, always knew all the friends, etc----mom's entire social lfe and world revolved around this Young lady. Much of what this girl subconsciously (at the time) loved about the guy was that he gave her an out. She needed a way to break away and live her own life and not be smothered by her mother without feeling that she was the "bad guy" telling mom to back off. Getting married was her way out.

And he exploited it. He used the very legitmate ways that the mom was overstepping as examples to encourage her to break off ties completly. He took advantage of the fact that she had no real practive making her own decisions and having any true independence and steped into those roles her mom used to do for her all while making it look like he was helping her break away from being controlled, rather than just change who had the control. and so on.

I see so many similaritie (right down to being very religious and "pure" until suddenly now when the boyfriend stepped in--it was kind of another way of breaking free of the old rules).

So, my suggetion is that you REALLY look carefully at what you involve yourself in and what you expect from your DD. Stick to being there to offer emotional support and love, but maybe dial back to talking to 3-4 times a week,. When she calls upset about his ideas for the wedding, listen, offer a shoulder to cry on, and then tell her you hope they can work it out. MAYBE let her know you are concerned that they seem to disagree so often about these things and that is not the best way to start a relationship and you hope they can figure out how to get along better. don't judge him or her---just let her know you worry.
DON'T offer your own opnions about wedding Locations or who is officiating or anything else along those lines and certainly don't talk about rumors or talk to their friends or his Family about any of this stuff. Don't crticise him either---that will only push her to feel she must defend everything he does.

I think, your goal should be to show yourself able to be uninvolved and hands off in her adult life while simultaneously being emotionally available for her whenever she Comes to you.

 

[katie111]

Going back to some of your initial posts, could you clarify what "proof" people have and how this proof could cost him his career? I don't see how trying to get back with an ex could make you lose your job? And why wouldn't your DS want to see this proof so that you could all make an informed decision on what is going on here and what type of guy her BF really is. Maybe he is telling the truth, in which case maybe he got mad because people are spreading lies about him and you believe them. Based on what you have said here about him, my guess would be that he's guilty, but I would want to know before my DH was walking my DD down the aisle in a few months.

 

[morgan98]

OP, not to pile on at all, but also please stop convincing yourself that your daughter is not relying on him HEAVILY financially. Having a few bucks to put gas in your car and to buy some meals when you are on your local community college campus is not being an adult and supporting yourself. I believe you said you still pay her car insurance. Yes, I realize she is only 19 and probably is not going to have a well paying "career" yet, but she basically stepped out of you caring for her to him caring for her. Doesn't matter that he was already paying rent and utilities and she is just living with him. He was/is supporting himself. Same cannot be said for your daughter.

Quite frankly, the story is a little sad. I would hope a young woman of 19 in the year 2018 would want a little more independence and experience before turning herself over to a relationship like this.

I still think stepping back and letting it unfold is your best recourse. I agree with others about being supportive of her, but step back and listen when she needs you. I don't think getting involved in every wedding detail or trying to engage/bait him into some type of response every time you see him is going to help the situation.

 

[luvsJack]

luvsjack, I am afraid I might come off harsh here, please know that I mean this in a Kind way and only to be helpful because it does Sound like your daughter might be involved in a relationship which might turn into something dangerous as time goes on.

My recollection of your postings over the years is that there seems to often be Drama involving your Kids, or their friends, and you have a tendency to insert yourself into that drama---especially with your daughter (I recall lots of threads about Show choir and the Group of Kids in that).
Now, reading this thread, it still seems you are highly invovled in things that you probably shouldn't be (you know how your DD and her boyfriend divvy up their finances, you know far too much about all sorts of wedding planning Details, etc). it seems that your daughter hardly has any part of her own life that you and your son are not heavily involved in. And you talk to her multiple times every, single, day.

On the Surface that may Sound wonderful, and loving and supportive, but it can really be smothering to a Young Person---especially to one who loves you and does not want to hurt you by telling you to back off.

The one Young woman I know who ended up in a relationship that was rapdily moving towards emotional abuse (and came this Close to marrying him at 19 and moving to another Country with him), was also super Close to a mom who was ALWAYS there, always calling, always expecting calls, always knew all the friends, etc----mom's entire social lfe and world revolved around this Young Lady. Much of what she subconsciously (at the time) loved about the guy was that he gave her an out. She needed a way to break a way and live her own life and not be smothered by her mother without Feeling that she was the "bad guy" telling mom to back off. Getting married was her way out.

And he exploited it. He used the very legitmate ways that the mom was overstepping as examples to encorage her to break off ties completly. He took Advantage of the fact that she had no real practive making her own decisions and having any true Independence and steped into those roles her mom used to do for her all while making it look like he was helping her break away from being controlled, rather than just Change who had the Control. and so on.

I see so man similaritie (right down ot being very religious and "pure" until suddenly n ow when the boyfriend stepped in--it was Kind of another way of breaking free of the old rules).

So, my suggetion is that you REALLY look carefully at wht you involve yourself in and what you expect from your DD. Stick to being there to offer emotional Support and love, but maybe dial back to talking to 3-4 times a week. When she calls upset bout his ideas for the wedding, listen, offer a shoulder to cry on, and then tell her you hope they can work it out. MAYBE let her know you are concerned that they seem to disagree so often about These Things and that is not the best way to start a relationship and you hope they can figure out how to get along better.
DON'T offer your own opnions about wedding Locations or who is officiating or anything else along those lines and certainly don't talk about rumors or talk to their friends or his Family about any of this stuff.
I think, your Goal should be to Show yourself able to be uninvolved and Hands off in her adult life while simultaneously being emotionally available for her whenever she Comes to you.

I get where you are coming from, really I do. Ds’s first wife wanted to get married to ds to get away from her family so I have seen it.

Honestly, I rarely call dd. She calls me. She calls me on her way to school and on her way back. And she will call a couple of times when he is working at night. But I will be more conscience of when I do. And what I say.

Knowing who paid for what came about when she was talking to me about looking for another job. I told her it was their decision to but it came down to if they need her paycheck. I do try not to ask too many questions.

Dd has always been close to us. She has always called me first when something upsets her whether it was a friend, something going on at school or whatever. Or when something good happens. Like yesterday she texted me to tell me about the great grade and compliments she got on her speech.

And she is a very open person. She will just blurt out what she wants like her uncles doing the ceremony. Or what kind of wedding they want. Or what colors. She will just begin telling me how they came to the decision. She doesn’t just tel me she also texts with her friends and tells them.

But I will try to make sure I back off. Or maybe comment less.

She and ds have to talk as they have business together. They are in the same group of friends in that business. He does get told a lot of stuff but he knows how things get repeated and blown out of proportion so is choosey about what he repeats.

And that business is why there was any connection with his mom. But that has changed so that connection won’t be there anymore. I honestly don’t see us being around his mom at all anymore. Or the business much at all.

 

[luvsJack]

OP, not to pile on at all, but also please stop convincing yourself that your daughter is not relying on him HEAVILY financially. Having a few bucks to put gas in your car and to buy some meals when you are on your local community college campus is not being an adult and supporting yourself. I believe you said you still pay her car insurance. Yes, I realize she is only 19 and probably is not going to have a well paying "career" yet, but she basically stepped out of you caring for her to him caring for her. Doesn't matter that he was already paying rent and utilities and she is just living with him. He was/is supporting himself. Same cannot be said for your daughter.

Quite frankly, the story is a little sad. I would hope a young woman of 19 in the year 2018 would want a little more independence and experience before turning herself over to a relationship like this.

I still think stepping back and letting it unfold is your best recourse. I agree with others about being supportive of her, but step back and listen when she needs you. I don't think getting involved in every wedding detail or trying to engage/bait him into some type of response every time you see him is going to help the situation.

If I was baiting him, it wasn’t intentional. But I will be more conscience of that.

Actually though, they were going to all the venues alone. They asked me to come down to see one. I was told, by him, that I should be cherishing this time with her in planning all this. I was really taken back by that. Since I wanted this to be their decision I was really confused by his comment. When I addressed it I was told he was just kidding.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

The business they're in (wrestling, right?) has a lot of machismo associated with it. Your daughter will need to think long and hard about what it will be like long term to live in this type of world. I can see how it's exciting to her right now, but how will she feel as she gets older, has kids, etc. I also think it's very different for men than it is for women to be involved in such a world, too. This guy might not be a bad guy, but may just be highly influenced by the culture they're involved in, which dictates how relationships are, women are treated, etc. Just food for thought. I know she initially entered the world with her brother, but now that dynamic has changed, and she's with a guy that she's not (yet) related to, and that is also is a lot different than a brother-sister type relationship.

I agree a lot with Morgan, that while she can, wouldn't it be preferable for her to start her adult life learning some of the joys of being an educated, independent, free to-do-as-she-pleases woman? Why get bogged down right now in this type of experience? There's plenty of time for that to come later! I also agree that she's, as is, not really independent if he's paying for rent, food, utilities. That makes her dependent on him, and he's likely to see things a certain way because of it, especially given their unique circumstances.

I know when DH and I moved in together, we split everything, and I worked two jobs while going to school in order to keep it that way, because it set the dynamic in our relationship. It was important to me to be able to support myself, because of what I'd grown up with, and my own mother's inability to do so when she needed to (given she was a child of the Depression and grew up in a time and place where women strived primarily to be "housewives"). Obviously not everyone has this issue to grapple with, but people can still learn from others' experiences and learn to make good decisions for themselves anyway. I hate to see any person be dominating in a relationship - ideally relationships are pretty equal, mutually respectful, etc. - unless all parties agree to something different. Young women need to be smart about how they start things off. There are so many issues they have to deal with today.

I do wish you luck dealing with this issue. I know, having a daughter (and son) the same age, that it's a fine line we walk when guiding, yet promoting their independence. I just think that turning 18 doesn't suddenly make one all of a sudden mature and able to make good decisions. That's a process. I can already see the difference between 18 and 20, but there's still a ways to go, obviously. It tells me a lot that the people of your state made the law about getting married at 21. There must've been good reason for that. I'd take more of a look at it.