BWV Dreamin
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2007
Yes, the WORST change of all!!! Next is One Life to Live in about 2 weeks. That just may push me over the edge.....Besides, they shut down All My Children already and that really teed me off.
Yes, the WORST change of all!!! Next is One Life to Live in about 2 weeks. That just may push me over the edge.....Besides, they shut down All My Children already and that really teed me off.
I will go out on a limb and suggest that Disney hasn't changed, so much as your perception. The more familiar we become with Mickey, the more we realize he's been a rodent all along.
I think both reality and perception have changed but I agree with Brian that the change has been far more in perception than that DVC/DVD themselves have truly changed. Many went in making assumptions that "Disney was different" and that certain things wouldn't happen because they hadn't in a while but that was a mistake on their part. I remember posts on the reallocation thread's about those that didn't know this could happen and those that knew it and assumed it wouldn't, shame on both groups IMO.
DVC is just another good timeshare in many ways, different but not better or worse IMO than other good timeshares like Marriott, Hilton, etc. I would disagree with Brian's portrayal that this is a problem or negative on Disney's part (rodent) because I don't think it is. I think the problem is on the members who made inappropriate assumptions and didn't understand what they were tying into, just another good timeshare. I don't think it was ever as good as some felt or as bad as some feel now. I believe unreasonable expectations and entitlement mentality have been the largest causes of negative opinions (reallocations, valet parking issues as examples).
It's clearly stated in the POS so everyone that bought in should have known it was possible at some point early on (resale buyers assume original buyers obligations). As a minimum members should have known it was possible and could happen even if they didn't expect it to. My info suggests that the problem was really DVC delaying it and that it should have happened in 2000 or 2001 when it would have fit more with the 1995 changes. While DVC has offered no formal extensive explanation (no need to really), I think those that have talked to upper level management have been reasonably satisfied with the explanations. DVC no longer publishes occupancy data (I believe they did early on), but the info that I had certainly confirmed the reasonableness of such a reallocation if accurate. Just common sense from reading these boards and those of us doing S-F stays would have confirmed higher demand for weekdays than weekends. DVC really has nothing to gain from a reallocation other than to fulfill their duties of management of the timeshare.I have always understood that point reallocations were probable prior to my purchases. I don't want to get off the subject of this thread so I will make it brief. There has been no data provided to owners concerning the need for these changes. The changes have come more frequently than in the past. And the changes for the most part have or will cost the owners money. I think it is a fiduciary responsibility to inform members. So I don't accept your opinion about your owners could have should have statement.
It's clearly stated in the POS so everyone that bought in should have known it was possible at some point early on (resale buyers assume original buyers obligations). As a minimum members should have known it was possible and could happen even if they didn't expect it to. My info suggests that the problem was really DVC delaying it and that it should have happened in 2000 or 2001 when it would have fit more with the 1995 changes. While DVC has offered no formal extensive explanation (no need to really), I think those that have talked to upper level management have been reasonably satisfied with the explanations. DVC no longer publishes occupancy data (I believe they did early on), but the info that I had certainly confirmed the reasonableness of such a reallocation if accurate. Just common sense from reading these boards and those of us doing S-F stays would have confirmed higher demand for weekdays than weekends. DVC really has nothing to gain from a reallocation other than to fulfill their duties of management of the timeshare.
I don't see them as related or that there's any real gain to DVC or DVD for this program. If you want to go that route or suggest that it was a ploy to encourage add ons, that's fine. However, you'd also have to accept that the system was never intended to be S-F and that those of us who were doing so were legally gaming the system. My suspicion is that the reallocations were more related to behavior than points and demand (they over compensated I believe). That they WERE intentionally trying to disrupt those of us doing 5 days avoiding weekends and IMO, rightfully so.I think DVC did " gain" when they created the "Rent up to 24 points from Disney at $15/pt. " program that was started right after the last reallocation.
Sorry, it was not meant as a criticism so much as a bit of poetically-licensed hyperbole: a short way of saying, "Folks tend to be blinded by all that pixie dust early in their Disney relationship."I would disagree with Brian's portrayal that this is a problem or negative on Disney's part (rodent) because I don't think it is.
This is along the same lines as worrying about the resort budgets: you either have to trust the company (and the auditors), or you should get out. If they wanted to hide something from you, there is very little chance you would ever figure it out. For example, it would not be hard to provide cooked data if you wanted to hide something. You have to depend on accounting/auditing/other mechanisms to detect and prevent any shenanigans rather than think you can do it yourself.There has been no data provided to owners concerning the need for these changes.
I have always understood that point reallocations were probable prior to my purchases. I don't want to get off the subject of this thread so I will make it brief. There has been no data provided to owners concerning the need for these changes. The changes have come more frequently than in the past. And the changes for the most part have or will cost the owners money. I think it is a fiduciary responsibility to inform members. So I don't accept your opinion about your owners could have should have statement.
I think DVC did " gain" when they created the "Rent up to 24 points from Disney at $15/pt. " program that was started right after the last reallocation.
Edited to add: as for the reallocations---frankly, I think it's a good thing that Disney is doing this. Wyndham has similar language in their governing documents, but to the best of my knowledge has never invoked it---even in the face of point allocation that clearly mis-predicts demand. Fixing those inequities would make Wyndham a stronger system.
I suspected that was your intent and I agree with your assessment that timeshares are simply big business and not inherently evil.Sorry, it was not meant as a criticism so much as a bit of poetically-licensed hyperbole: a short way of saying, "Folks tend to be blinded by all that pixie dust early in their Disney relationship."
This is along the same lines as worrying about the resort budgets: you either have to trust the company (and the auditors), or you should get out. If they wanted to hide something from you, there is very little chance you would ever figure it out. For example, it would not be hard to provide cooked data if you wanted to hide something. You have to depend on accounting/auditing/other mechanisms to detect and prevent any shenanigans rather than think you can do it yourself.
In general, it's my opinion that most timeshare developers are genuinely not out-and-out crooks, and Disney is farther away from the "crook" line than nearly any of the others. And, full disclosure: I do not own DVC, so this is not an owner who has drunk the kool-aid.
Edited to add: as for the reallocations---frankly, I think it's a good thing that Disney is doing this. Wyndham has similar language in their governing documents, but to the best of my knowledge has never invoked it---even in the face of point allocation that clearly mis-predicts demand. Fixing those inequities would make Wyndham a stronger system.
I don't think that's fair. I think Brian has more than demonstrated both his knowledge and objective viewpoint on DVC. Didn't you sell out then recently buy back in? You might go over to TUG and look up timeos2 (John Chase) and read his opinions about DVC if you want an opinion from an owner (former). I don't think I'm being unfair in saying it's about as negative as one could be. I'd rather read info from Brian any time.I do appreciate your comments and know you have a wealth of information in the TS world. That being said, I have a really hard time reading about comments on what is good and not with DVC when you aren't even an owner. I'd like to see you spend some dollars on DVC then I might take your advice a little more seriously.
I suspected that was your intent and I agree with your assessment that timeshares are simply big business and not inherently evil.
I don't think that's fair. I think Brian has more than demonstrated both his knowledge and objective viewpoint on DVC. Didn't you sell out then recently buy back in? You might go over to TUG and look up timeos2 (John Chase) and read his opinions about DVC if you want an opinion from an owner (former). I don't think I'm being unfair in saying it's about as negative as one could be. I'd rather read info from Brian any time.
Of course, you are welcome to take or leave my writings as you see fit. I am not here to seek your approval, or anyone else's, for that matter.That being said, I have a really hard time reading about comments on what is good and not with DVC when you aren't even an owner. I'd like to see you spend some dollars on DVC then I might take your advice a little more seriously.
Not only affect the bottom line, but create attendance problems. HS and MK had to be closed due to crowds. HS was allowing people to park on the road in to the parking lot! Would thousands of DVCers showing up with free tickets help the situation?So the DVC needs to find a perk that really grabs a guest. And the one IMO that would do it is related to free park passes. And since the DVC does not own the parks I can't see Disney Parks agreeing to free park passes. It might affect the Disney Parks division's bottom line.
And since the DVC does not own the parks I can't see Disney Parks agreeing to free park passes. It might affect the Disney Parks division's bottom line.