Talked to a CM friend....

[bicker]

Be aware that toolbars and other add-ins (from folks like Google, Yahoo, and AOL) have been known to interfere with normal web application access for a wide variety of applications.

 

[freakylick]

Well, it depends on "from who's perspective." In this case, your internal perspective and my internal perspective are both irrelevant. What matters is the impact on Disney.

A sound business does consider the customer's perspective. Why?! Because of your last statement. If I am not happy and I can not book with a good discount, I am not going. And it looks like that is what is going to happen. Based on my perspective, they are losing my money. Do they gain someone else's money because I didn't go?! If all discounted rooms get filled, you could say yes. But maybe that person that took the room that I would have stayed in would have been perfectly willing to pay rack until they heard about this program....then they do lose.

No: They're rewarding those who can. BIG difference.

The BIG difference being the narrow view that you have taken. Any time that you reward someone, someone else is penalized. In this case, it is people such as PamNC and myself that are penalized.

Either way, the same number of customers are satisfied, to the same extent. Let's go one step further, if we put aside the advantage Disney derives, shouldn't Disney be indifferent between which set of customers they please, given that there is only a limited supply?

The same # of customers may be satisfied, but I am willing to bet that there are now a larger # of customers that are dissatisfied. Both ends of the spectrum have to be considered. I am sure that there are a large # of people booking through this program that would have been content (likely by their own ignorance) with paying rack. Those people are now satisfied..but they would have been satisfied paying rack anyway. Meanwhile, there are people who need those discounts to be able to book and they need less than 120 days notice to be able to book. Those folks are now left hanging in the air with "you may be able to get a discount later."

 

[lillygator]

However did WDW resorts make any money before they offered discounts?

It seems there are so many people who are reliant on a discount to book a WDW resort. Why doesn't everyone book what they can afford? I am sure everyone would love to stay at a WDW resort but it seems there are so many posts about not affording this or that because no discount or I had to cancel my trip because no discounts were available....and it seems everyone is getting so upset over something that doesn't have all the kinks even close to being worked out yet.

 

[bicker]

Well, it depends on "from who's perspective." In this case, your internal perspective and my internal perspective are both irrelevant. What matters is the impact on Disney.

A sound business does consider the customer's perspective.

Of course, but in this case we're talking about a situation where different customers perspectives differ: This is good for some customers, not good for others. Oppositional requirements.

Based on my perspective, they are losing my money.

But perhaps gaining the money of others. And perhaps not losing the money of others.

Clearly, Disney is has forecasted that the net-result is more satisfied customers. It's okay to disagree with their forecast, of course, but they surely need to make their decisions based on the best information they have available to them.

They're rewarding those who can. BIG difference.

The BIG difference being the narrow view that you have taken.

I disagree with you: I believe my view is broader than your view. Let's take 'em out and measure them.

The same # of customers may be satisfied, but I am willing to bet that there are now a larger # of customers that are dissatisfied.

I was joking above, but just a little. How much would you bet? How do you propose to measure whether you're correct or not? My point is that world-class companies have the resources to no only engage in such a "bet" (figuratively speaking) but actually make a good guess (forecast) which of their available options will be the winning bet. I'm inclined to believe that that is the case here, but I'm sure willing to read evidence to the contrary.

In the end, remember that Disney has an Ace-up-their-sleeve, one that they've used in case-after-case where fans on these boards have felt as you do about some decision they've made: They can moderate their policy, and change it to fit whatever is necessary to achieve their goal.

 

[Sammie]

However did WDW resorts make any money before they offered discounts?

It seems there are so many people who are reliant on a discount to book a WDW resort. Why doesn't everyone book what they can afford? I am sure everyone would love to stay at a WDW resort but it seems there are so many posts about not affording this or that because no discount or I had to cancel my trip because no discounts were available....and it seems everyone is getting so upset over something that doesn't have all the kinks even close to being worked out yet.

They sold their rooms at Rack Rate. As I stated in another thread. Prior to the travel slump and 9-11 you did not have PIN codes, email codes, postcard codes, general codes, plentiful AP codes or even AAA. You had AP codes and Fl resident and only during the seasons that were not being booked at rack or a very small percentage of the rooms were offered. This was prior to Internet forums and you found out about the discounts in the AP Mickey Monitor newsletter.

Disney was asked once prior to offering so many types of discounts, why they did not offer more discounts like other hotels. They said at this time we don't need to, to fill our rooms and if a time comes and we do offer them and then we don't need to anymore, the guest will be upset we took them away.

 

[PamNC]

I couldn't have said it better myself.

YES, they are punishing people like us. And I still stand by the statement that I am just as committed to Disney. Let's see, I spent 18 nights total at Disney last year, didn't leave the property to eat or to visit any other theme park. I spent 2 days at DL in May while in Southern CA, and I will spend 8 nights at the Beach Club in just 11 days (yahooo!!) at which time I will NOT leave the property nor spend a dime on anything but Disney food and merchandise.

According to the polls, more people dislike the program than like it, so hopefully it'll go away or at least be amended. I am actually an ex-cast member from marketing...and I'm trying to find out more info. A lot of people I know think that Disney didn't think this through carefully and I agree.

I love the idea of not having to check codes and play the discount game. I think they should shorten the window to 60 days. Again, I am no less comitted just because my career, and my husband's, are such that we can't plan far out in advance. Nor are folks who CAN plan that far in advance any less comitted than me. I think we're all committed or else we wouldn't spend 1/2 our lives on these boards, right?

In the end, it doesn't matter what we think. They will do what they will do, but I think they will definitely lose AP holders with the new plan. We'll see what happens. I for one will fight City Hall, voice my opinion, and stand up for us "non-traditional types" who aren't teachers, bankers, insurance salesmen, secretaries, or any other career that fits the "mold" of America. You know. 9 to 5. 2 weeks vacation. Blah blah blah

If I had to pick between my life choice of being my own boss and being able to plan my vacation 120+ days out, I'd certainly pick my life choice.

PamNC

 

[lillygator]

my opening stmt in my last post was being sarcastic....


....of course, the discounts are great and allow me to spend more money on other things while I am there but as you can see from many many posters here on the DIS boards "we" have all become to reliant on them....and fully expect them.

 

[freakylick]

Of course, but in this case we're talking about a situation where different customers perspectives differ: This is good for some customers, not good for others. Oppositional requirements..

Oppositional does not mean equal.

But perhaps gaining the money of others. And perhaps not losing the money of others.

So they have a guaranteed loss of my money and gain a couple of perhaps'. Sounds like how they expected the AP'ers to book with this new program.

Clearly, Disney is has forecasted that the net-result is more satisfied customers.

Based on the way that this whole program has been handled by Disney, I don't think the word "clearly" belongs in any sentence. You can believe that if you want though.

How much would you bet? How do you propose to measure whether you're correct or not? My point is that world-class companies have the resources to no only engage in such a "bet" (figuratively speaking) but actually make a good guess (forecast) which of their available options will be the winning bet. I'm inclined to believe that that is the case here, but I'm sure willing to read evidence to the contrary.

I haven't heard anyone say that they booked because of this program (or that this was an large factor in their decision)...but I have read a lot of people say that they won't book because of this program..or that they will book a lot less often. Granted this is after the fact knowledge that Disney didn't have before rolling this out. Certainly this is no measurement and my "bet" was more of facetious one used to emphasize my point. They can do all of the research that they want, but that doesn't mean that their "conclusion" is correct.

In the end, remember that Disney has an Ace-up-their-sleeve, one that they've used in case-after-case where fans on these boards have felt as you do about some decision they've made: They can moderate their policy, and change it to fit whatever is necessary to achieve their goal.

Well, it sounds like they are wrong quite a bit...but I am sure they are right on this one...they did their research.

 

[PamNC]

I like your redirects to bicker. Very well said. But, my advice is to
just give up. I have. He will benefit, as will others, and you and I won't.

Bottom line - those who can book that far in advance may very well benefit from the new system. Those of us who CAN'T, which isn't the same as WON'T, will suffer.

I will suffer.

And I will have to get over it, because quite frankly I don't think Disney cares how we feel. If enough people use the system, I'm sure it'll be a permanent fixture in our lives. I'm writing everyone and their grandbrother protesting. If enough of us speak up, maybe there is a .00001% chance we will be heard. I hope so.

In the meantime, suffer though I will, I will enjoy my trips to Disney and I might even give them even more of my money by purchasing DVC. It's a sick, twisted obsession.

PamNC

 

[freakylick]

I like your redirects to bicker. Very well said.

Thank you...My mom always said that I could debate with the best of 'em...Actually, she didn't use the word debate..she said "piss and moan", but I read between the lines.

And I will have to get over it, because quite frankly I don't think Disney cares how we feel. If enough people use the system, I'm sure it'll be a permanent fixture in our lives. I'm writing everyone and their grandbrother protesting. If enough of us speak up, maybe there is a .00001% chance we will be heard. I hope so.

I have written as well and hope it does some good (though I am not holding my breath). But sometimes these discussions helps because you find people in the same situation...and we all know that misery loves company

In the meantime, suffer though I will, I will enjoy my trips to Disney and I might even give them even more of my money by purchasing DVC. It's a sick, twisted obsession.

You are just asking for trouble, aren't you Have fun on your trip!

 

[bicker]

I think we're all committed or else we wouldn't spend 1/2 our lives on these boards, right?

Hehe... I think there is no question that everyone who frequents these boards are "outliers." By the same token, that means that we aren't a representative sample of the general population of WDW guests.

 

[bicker]

Oppositional does not mean equal.

I'll grant you're equal, if you grant that I'm equal!

I haven't heard anyone say that they booked because of this program

Check some of the other threads. I've seen at least three messages in that regard.

Certainly this is no measurement ...

This is a great board, but it in no way represents any view of the reality. We're fanatics, for good and ill: More likely to love and more likely to hate. What matters is what the general population does.

They can do all of the research that they want, but that doesn't mean that their "conclusion" is correct.

Of course, but it doesn't mean it is wrong, and so what should one rely on? Their own research or what? It is easy to criticize and be a back-seat driver; it's hard to actually do the real work.

Been nice chatting with you!

 

[Jennjon]

A CM friend of mine informed me that the new Best Rate Program (which totally has me enraged!) came to fruition because they are trying to cut down on Passholders calling every single day to check on discounts. God knows I have a clear conscious because I was never one of "those." It only takes one bad apple to spoil it for everyone else.....

PamNC

Is it just me, but calling to check on discounts is what Disney people tell you to do when you book your reservations. I believe it is part of their job of answering phones to answer ALL questions however minor they are. I just called today for our vaction in October, and the woman was VERY nice to me and said to call in about a week or two, for the week we are going. I went online to book and the dates we are going are out of the 120 days, so that being the case...... I have to call and check. I don't believe that people spoiled it by calling and checking everyday. I think Disney had other reasoning for doing it. I do believe that some people that abuse the discount system have caused these changes!!

 

[lllovell]

Is it just me, but calling to check on discounts is what Disney people tell you to do when you book your reservations. I believe it is part of their job of answering phones to answer ALL questions however minor they are. I just called today for our vaction in October, and the woman was VERY nice to me and said to call in about a week or two, for the week we are going. I went online to book and the dates we are going are out of the 120 days, so that being the case...... I have to call and check. I don't believe that people spoiled it by calling and checking everyday. I think Disney had other reasoning for doing it. I do believe that some people that abuse the discount system have caused these changes!!

It the number of calls a day was significant enough to have to hire extra CMs to answer the phones, then it IS a legitimate reason. This is a method for being able to keep the hotels at peek occupancy (if enough rooms aren't gone at 120 days, they can offer better discounts, etc...but if enough are gone, no AP discounts will be offered I think) and it cuts back on the number of CMs needed at CRO.

I bet when the rates came out, we were talking HUNDREDS of people if not thousands a day were calling to change ressies. People also were making multiple reservations on one AP and then waiting until they knew which rooms they could afford before releasing those other reservations (sometimes not releasing them until it is too late to rent them).

I am not saying this is ALL about AP ressie abuse, but it definately got the ball rolling on alternatives.

 

[Luv2Roam]

Not that I have any inside knowledge on why this was done. As anyone else here are a few guesses:
1) Attempt at becoming more up-to-date as most anything can be ordered and bought on-line
2) Cost effective; less overhead. On-line sales would lesssen the need for a real person on the end of a phone line. Not to mention al the expenses that go with hiring new CMs.

What COULD happen is loyal AP guests now looking at the off-site/Good Neighbor Hotels as an alternative. Many of the off site hotels offer a lot of perks and try to make up for the Disney perks they cannot offer. And CRO CMs should be knowledgable about off-site hotels.
So those who don't fit the 120 day window or don't want to gamble against extra fees may well look to off site as an option like never before.
Esp when many AP-ers are DVC owners, are WDW repeats. They most likely know the ins and outs and how and how to get around without WDW transportation.

I think everyone is loyal -- to a point.

 

[freakylick]

I'll grant you're equal, if you grant that I'm equal!

We're equal...Our take on this subject and the consequences of this program on us are not. How much it affects you and how much it effects me is not equal and thus our consequential reactions are not "opposingly equal" (if that makes any sense)...I will just leave it at that.

Check some of the other threads. I've seen at least three messages in that regard.

I have read through a lot of threads (but not all as I don't have the time) and I have seen that a lot of people benefitted from this program..but I still have not seen anyone say that this program was an integral part in their decision to go. I am not calling you a liar though...it's just not what I have seen/heard/read.

This is a great board, but it in no way represents any view of the reality. We're fanatics, for good and ill: More likely to love and more likely to hate. What matters is what the general population does.

We're not all fanatics. I do not consider myself one. I enjoy Disney, but I have only been to Disney 3 times in my 30+ years of existence..and two of those times I was barely old enough to remember any of it. I came here (as a lot of people do) because I have found that message boards can be a valuable source of non-corporate opinion/information that can help in me planning my trip. So in that sense, I would say that I am more a part of the general public than the fanatics.

But if it is true that this is a board of fanatics, then I would say that people here are more likely to love than to hate (though I am sure there are a fair share of haters here) Disney. Thus many people are willing to "overlook" Disney's wrong-doings. So if you were correct that this is a bunch of fanatics..and many are saying they will be going less...well you draw your own conclusion because you are the one who believes that this is a group of fanatics.

Of course, but it doesn't mean it is wrong, and so what should one rely on? Their own research or what?

I agree that it doesn't mean it is wrong...but I won't just assume they know what they are doing and are likely to be correct, especially if they have a history of being wrong and subsequently "tweaking".

Honestly, I have a lot more to say on these subjects..but my frustration level with WDW is through the roof and it is beginning to get tiresome. Please don't take this as a slap at you...I have enjoyed our conversations, but I think I need to step away and just deal with the offending parties. Goodbye and enjoy your future trips...enjoy one for me too because someone will need to.

 

[PamNC]

Is it just me, but calling to check on discounts is what Disney people tell you to do when you book your reservations. I believe it is part of their job of answering phones to answer ALL questions however minor they are. I just called today for our vaction in October, and the woman was VERY nice to me and said to call in about a week or two, for the week we are going. I went online to book and the dates we are going are out of the 120 days, so that being the case...... I have to call and check. I don't believe that people spoiled it by calling and checking everyday. I think Disney had other reasoning for doing it. I do believe that some people that abuse the discount system have caused these changes!!

Hello there. You're absolutely right, I think abuse of the discount system is a big part of these changes. But, believe me, I can assure you that the # of calls from Passholders had A LOT to do with it.

PamNC

 

[G&J's Mom]

Hehe... I think there is no question that everyone who frequents these boards are "outliers." By the same token, that means that we aren't a representative sample of the general population of WDW guests.

Ya know I was thinking about that. We know about this program cause of Mousesavers and this board. We are only a portion of the AP population, the ones that know this program exists, but what about the AP Holders that are still in the dark about this program?? We have already read many posts that suggest CRO is clueless. So how do they find out about it? I had been reading these boards for the last couple of days about the subject, and have noticed already that a few people who objected strongly to this program are jumping on board and willing to give it a shot. I am guessing that there will be many more who will do the same once everyone is in the know. I am curious to see how it plays out.

PamNC, I live in Georgia and do not always plan that far in advance. I agree with you. I too hope they will reduce the 120 day window, but until then I will book what I can afford if I decide to take a last minute trip.

Denise

 

[PamNC]

PamNC, I live in Georgia and do not always plan that far in advance. I agree with you. I too hope they will reduce the 120 day window, but until then I will book what I can afford if I decide to take a last minute trip.

Denise

I guess I'll do the same. OR, you know, we could rent points from DVC members. That way you get deluxe accommodations. Better yet, we COULD buy into DVC. Perhaps that is Disney's master plan anyway.

PamNC

 

[G&J's Mom]

I guess I'll do the same. OR, you know, we could rent points from DVC members. That way you get deluxe accommodations. Better yet, we COULD buy into DVC. Perhaps that is Disney's master plan anyway.

PamNC

Funny you say that! I actually got the DVC DVD in the mail a few days ago! I am always thinking and planning