Poly Tower decision and RIV restrictions

[Cfabar1]

I am surprised at the amount of complaints about this being part of the same resort.

It really doesn’t affect Riviera owners. They bought and made a decision.

It doesn’t negatively impact Polynesian owners - they now will have 11 month availability at more rooms than before.

Riviera direct owners and VDH direct owners will have to perhaps sell for less when they purchase, but those were the terms of the agreement they made. Nothing has changed for them.

RIV and VDH resale owners will be able to access the resorts they bought as per the terms of their contract.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

“Our plans right now are for the new tower to be part of the existing Polynesian resort“ is a stronger statement than “leaning that way.”
Chang left wiggle room in case those plans changed, but if they truly were still deciding then Chang’s answer would have been far less specific.
I’d speculate the same/different association decision is driven by 11 month booking priority since DVC cares about direct buyers, especially future direct buyers. Poly1, like all DVC resorts, likely is mostly owned by folks who bought it direct & I’m guessing those Poly1 direct buyers would be unhappy if they couldn’t book Poly2 at 11 months & that’s what’s driving the new association v. add on to Poly1 decision plus economies of scale will likely reduce MFs. VGF2 sold a lot of points to existing owners & I expect Poly2 will as well.
The fact that newer resale buyers at other resorts will be able to book Poly2 at 7 months, & Poly2 resale buyers will be able to book at the O14 at 7 months must be less important to DVC v. appealing to potential direct buyers who want 11 mo. access to original Poly studios + the new villas in Poly2.
I’m not sure why owners of Riviera would be upset, they knew that resale restrictions were part of the deal when they bought, VDH is currently for sale & is restricted, I expect the FW cabins to be restricted as well. If DVC decides to do a quick flip & convert Aruba &/or Martinique @ CBR to DVC in the next couple of years I’d expect them to be added to the Riviera1 association w/ Riviera’s resale restrictions.

Using your logic, why should PVB1 owners be upset if this is a new association, they knew buying there that it was only studio rooms and most probably had no idea there was a potential of an addition some ways down the road. Direct owners still get access at 7 mos like BRV owners at CCV.

I have both PVB resale and RIV direct so I definitely have stake in the game. I truly thought it was going to be a new association because that’s how RIV has been sold- that new builds would have restrictions so buying direct guarantees access to future products- and because to me it is a new resort! That might be a matter of opinion but for me new dining facilities, a pool and different theming make it new. And I actually agree with you, I don’t think they’ll back down from their statement and they will make Poly part of PVB. But that’s why I’m a bit baffled and upset. I’m not upset there are restrictions, you’re right, I knew that walking in. What I didn’t know was that the next build where that matters is probably years and years away and doing so has devalued my purchase. CFW is a completely new direction for DVC so I don’t think it’s fair to count it.

I’m not asking for restrictions on the new tower, it’s works better for me in so many ways that it’s not. But no one can deny that keeping RIV with restrictions while no other resort at WDW has them has really hurt RIV sales and, of course, resales. And where VDH is a bit unique because it’s only 1 of 2 options at DLR, so it’ll do ok regardless, restrictions hurt there, too. If Poly tower was restricted it would prove that’s the way forward and people would probably stop bemoaning them as much and the resorts would sell fairly. As it is, for new buyers RIV makes very little sense and will be now until after Poly 2 sells out. I think we do have a right to be upset by this, unless by making this decision they’ll move forward removing the restrictions on all the resorts.

 

[Sandisw]

Not just the blue card - the ability to book the new resorts (RIV, VDH, Ft. Wilderness, future "new" resorts.) I also think it's smart for DVD to have the ability to go back and sell direct at unrestricted resorts. It allows them sway those who are looking to add-on to go direct (at special pricing.) There are plenty of examples this summer of people deciding to add at VGF when the pricing was close enough to resale (with the bonus of the new resorts, blue card, ability to buy sorcerer's pass, etc.)

Sell the restricted resorts to new purchasers, but also have an unrestricted one to sell direct and tempt add-ons. It's a better strategy than say ROFRing a bunch of points to sell direct (and owe on the dues,) whereas with a new add-on to an existing association - DVD can declare as they sell and rent out the rest for cash.

The problem now with the messaging is they will lose the trust of those who believed they meant it when they implied future resorts.

And, sure, we can say this isn’t new, but it is in all aspects except the land it is on. So, I think there are a lot more people who will gamble and just hope that DVD adds to existing properties.

 

[walt34]

What is your proposed time horizon?

1 year would be fair, I think. And we will probably have to find an agreement on a price limit for Mickey bars - at the rate Disney has been increasing prices recently, this could mean financial ruin otherwise.

Joking aside, and I never bet for more than a symbolic value, I’d mostly interested in how certain you are. Adding on a 200 studios only building seemed to be a much more reasonable exception to me than what nearly looks like a full resort with a well balanced set of rooms.

 

[wiihoo888]

The problem now with the messaging is they will lose the trust of those who believed they meant it when they implied future resorts.

And, sure, we can say this isn’t new, it is in all aspects except the land it is on. So, I think there are a lot more people who will gamble and just hope that DVD adds to existing properties.

The messaging so far is a fine chorus of crickets. Okay, more like a chorus of crickets after a weekend long bender

 

[Brian Noble]

1 year would be fair, I think.

One year, you've got a deal. I'll wager 16 Mickeybars. That comes out to just over $100 at today's price of $6 per AllEars, plus tax. As an aside, is it really true that the ice cream/snack cart prices last changed in 2021? That seems...odd.

In a year, that might be $125. It probably won't be $200. And yes, I am a symbolic-only-bettor as well.

I’d mostly interested in how certain you are. Adding on a 200 studios only building seemed to be a much more reasonable exception to me than what nearly looks like a full resort with a well balanced set of rooms.

I'll admit, I am surprised. I was Team New Association all along, for exactly that reason. But, PVB is just GFV in reverse. BPK added 200 studios to a balanced resort. PVB2 adds a balanced resort to 360 studios plus 20 albatrosses bungalows. I didn't think the "in reverse" part would carry water though, because the studios-only-plus-bungalows-I-guess points have already all been sold.

 

[MonaMN]

Not just the blue card - the ability to book the new resorts (RIV, VDH, Ft. Wilderness, future "new" resorts.) I also think it's smart for DVD to have the ability to go back and sell direct at unrestricted resorts. It allows them sway those who are looking to add-on to go direct (at special pricing.) There are plenty of examples this summer of people deciding to add at VGF when the pricing was close enough to resale (with the bonus of the new resorts, blue card, ability to buy sorcerer's pass, etc.)

Sell the restricted resorts to new purchasers, but also have an unrestricted one to sell direct and tempt add-ons. It's a better strategy than say ROFRing a bunch of points to sell direct (and owe on the dues,) whereas with a new add-on to an existing association - DVD can declare as they sell and rent out the rest for cash.

We are considering getting some direct points for this very reason. I like the idea of CFW, but might lean toward Poly points instead if they are unrestricted. Unless the price point would be significantly different, it seems like a no-brainer...

 

[TinkB278]

Not just the blue card - the ability to book the new resorts (RIV, VDH, Ft. Wilderness, future "new" resorts.) I also think it's smart for DVD to have the ability to go back and sell direct at unrestricted resorts. It allows them sway those who are looking to add-on to go direct (at special pricing.) There are plenty of examples this summer of people deciding to add at VGF when the pricing was close enough to resale (with the bonus of the new resorts, blue card, ability to buy sorcerer's pass, etc.)

Sell the restricted resorts to new purchasers, but also have an unrestricted one to sell direct and tempt add-ons. It's a better strategy than say ROFRing a bunch of points to sell direct (and owe on the dues,) whereas with a new add-on to an existing association - DVD can declare as they sell and rent out the rest for cash.

But at this point it doesn’t seem they have much interest in selling all future resorts as being restricted. I was planning on adding on poly2 direct but instead will just add on some more resale points to use at poly2 and have no intention of adding on anymore direct for the foreseeable future since I have plenty of RIV direct for future resorts and resale to use at the original resorts (and pvb2).

 

[wiihoo888]

I am surprised at the amount of complaints about this being part of the same resort.

It really doesn’t affect Riviera owners. They bought and made a decision.

It doesn’t negatively impact Polynesian owners - they now will have 11 month availability at more rooms than before.

Riviera direct owners and VDH direct owners will have to perhaps sell for less when they purchase, but those were the terms of the agreement they made. Nothing has changed for them.

RIV and VDH resale owners will be able to access the resorts they bought as per the terms of their contract.

It is not dissatisfaction in where we purchased a contract. It is what we were told in regard to resale restrictions and future new construction. We get the “They bought the ticket. They got on the plane. I say, let em crash” feedback we’re getting from other DVC members. We have been hearing it since day one of purchasing and trusted that DVC would keep to their word in strategy going forward as part of our buying decision. That is not happening. There appears to be no discernible strategy. There are crickets and confusing remarks at the end of a Q&A session as our explanation. It smarts

 

[Brian Noble]

We are considering getting some direct points for this very reason.

Unless you plan to sell within the next 10-15ish years, I don't believe the difference between restricted and unrestricted is going to be all that important. The two most likely outcomes are either (a) most new resorts plus the re-imagined 2042s are all restricted or (b) they end up being dropped. As Charlie Berens would say, at that point "It's a horse apiece."

 

[wiihoo888]

But at this point it doesn’t seem they have much interest in selling all future resorts as being restricted. I was planning on adding on poly2 direct but instead will just add on some more resale points to use at poly2 and have no intention of adding on anymore direct for the foreseeable future since I have plenty of RIV direct for future resorts and resale to use at the original resorts (and pvb2).

Ayup…and this is what has me rethinking the third direct contract I just purchased. Resale just became a whole lot more attractive

 

[Genie+]

Sure you can buy used poly points right now and get into the shiny new tower, but you wont have access to RIV, VDH, or CFW, or whatever is the next new one, something where reflections was gonna go probably.

Sure you can buy used poly points right now and get into the shiny new tower, but you wont have access to RIV, VDH, or CFW, maybe whatever is the next new one, maybe something where reflections was gonna go, maybe the odd new DVC in between mostly unrestricted active resorts, or maybe even none of the future DVC.

 

[kilik64]

Resale just became a whole lot more attractive

How? Because you can access new rooms at an existing resort? Was that also the case with BPK added to VGF?

DVD is being consistent, BPK was added to existing, and poly tower is being added to existing. Anything new (IE RIV, VDH, CFW, whatever is new after) will have restrictions.

DVC hasn't done anything to alter their course here or done anything to damage prior buyers.

 

[maui22]

Sure you can buy used poly points right now and get into the shiny new tower, but you wont have access to RIV, VDH, or CFW, maybe whatever is the next new one, maybe something where reflections was gonna go, maybe the odd new DVC in between mostly unrestricted active resorts, or maybe even none of the future DVC.

Exactly!!!

Additionally, PVB resale (or direct) will have fewer years remaining.

 

[jennypenny]

I fired off two emails. When we purchased our Riviera contracts. we were told more than once that resale restrictions would be included with all future DVC offerings. I was willing to overlook it at BPK, but not this time. Fool me once ...

And even though I get what I paid for with my RR contracts, DVC's actions have directly lowered the value of my contracts for the sake of boosting sales at other properties. DVD is NOT being consistent. Remember that CCV was added right before RR and they were not folded into the existing association, so it's not unreasonable that RR owners assumed that future additions, like at VGF and Poly, would be new associations.

 

[Genie+]

There is a difference between thinking restrictions will affect most of DVC going forward and just the odd DVC getting restrictions. The collective reaction is probably because it’s made alot of us think about the future of DVC differently. Whether anything has really changed or not, unrestricted Poly2 is fuel to change our expectations.

 

[wiihoo888]

How? Because you can access new rooms at an existing resort? Was that also the case with BPK added to VGF?

DVD is being consistent, BPK was added to existing, and poly tower is being added to existing. Anything new (IE RIV, VDH, CFW, whatever is new after) will have restrictions.

DVC hasn't done anything to alter their course here or done anything to damage prior

How? Because you can access new rooms at an existing resort? Was that also the case with BPK added to VGF?

DVD is being consistent, BPK was added to existing, and poly tower is being added to existing. Anything new (IE RIV, VDH, CFW, whatever is new after) will have restrictions.

DVC hasn't done anything to alter their course here or done anything to damage prior buyers.

Clear communication on all of this straight from DVC would go a long way right now. Remarks at the end of a Q&A session are not clear strategy communication. The fact that a whole lot of us are speculating a whole lot of things kind of puts a spotlight on this

And yes…if strategy has changed, and if the cabins are not restricted, than a direct purchase is not as attractive anymore. I also truly thought this new tower build would make Poly like WL in having two associations. That it did not happen gives me pause. That it has been communicated haphazardly is unsettling at best

 

[sndral]

It will be interesting to see how an unrestricted Poly sells v. restricted Riviera. I had hoped VGF2 sales would outperform Riviera sales enough to make DVC abandon the restrictions road - but VGF2 sales did not do well enough for that. Direct buyers seemingly don’t think about future resale value & even if they do, Riviera’s resale value held up longer than I expected.

How? Because you can access new rooms at an existing resort? Was that also the case with BPK added to VGF?

DVD is being consistent, BPK was added to existing, and poly tower is being added to existing. Anything new (IE RIV, VDH, CFW, whatever is new after) will have restrictions.

DVC hasn't done anything to alter their course here or done anything to damage prior buyers.

I was actually surprised when they added BPK to VGF1 even w/ the early announcement of same association I half expected a resale restriction for the points deeded at BPK because selling unrestricted points seemed contrary to what they’d said about restrictions when they started them w/ Riviera. Thus Poly isn’t a surprise to me since it’s VGF2 in reverse & I’m not sure why it’s generating more angst than BPK.
The reality is that after Poly2 there won’t be any existing resorts w/ approx. 40 years left on the contracts for DVC to add on to, so the next several resorts will likely be new restricted resorts.

 

[DougEMG]

If I was a direct buyer of RIV (and I am not) I would feel like Disney conned me into believing that all additional DVC buildings going forward would have resale restrictions on them. This was certainly the impression that I had when they announced RIV.

Everyone here said that resale restrictions were bad for owners but eventually all resorts would have them, but now it looks like eventually is a lot farther in the future than most of us expected.

Resale restrictions only help DVC in the very long run and is any executive going to make a 20, 30, 40, 50 year plan when they most likely are only around for 5 years or so.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

I can kinda make the case of why Disney needs resale restrictions moving forward. And it was my reasoning on why I thought it would be a separate association and be restricted. You have a bunch of 2042 resorts declining in price and will continue to do so, as well as SSR contracts for sale all over the resellers sites under $100/pt. Who would buy $250+ pts to a new build when you can "in theory" get resale pts from an unrestricted resort and book some of the newer locations at 7 months without much issue (PVB, VGF, etc)?

If I was a direct buyer of RIV (and I am not) I would feel like Disney conned me into believing that all additional DVC buildings going forward would have resale restrictions on them. This was certainly the impression that I had when they announced RIV.

Everyone here said that resale restrictions were bad for owners but eventually all resorts would have them, but now it looks like eventually is a lot farther in the future than most of us expected.

Resale restrictions only help DVC in the very long run and is any executive going to make a 20, 30, 40, 50 year plan when they most likely are only around for 5 years or so.

I don't like the idea of restrictions but I saw how as a long term strategy it would drive more business to direct. And it would if they stayed the course. Sure future projects could be restricted but like others have said the inconsistency will screw them over. I agree this is short term thinking of execs that want to infuse cash quickly to the bottom line since we're in times where Wall Street is chopping companies that can't produce...and Disney has been knocked down hard enough it's barely got a leg to stand on. So yeah I think this is going to have the same effect as the boy who cried restrictions.