"Other Rumored Lands" @ DHS

[DDLand]

uhh yeah dude ...if you keep ignoring the facts you'll have a hard time understanding how these very complex business deals work

What?

They still haven't give the new name of the Hollywood Studio Park yet either, or what will become of the Star Wars Launch Bay in Animation Courtyard after the new Star Wars land opens... which means the aren't done announcing things yet

That was from the New York Times...

If there is a Non-Disclosure agreement between Universal and Disney on this, and there most certainly would be, this middle management park chairman would lie to the press instead of getting sued by Disney

Middle management? He'd be one of the most important people to get a deal through. He's like the Bob Chapek of Universal, only this guy is responsible for a Universal Parks Renaissance. This guy knows his stuff and has more than enough authority to be talking about this.

Past that, this quote is from July. If an NDA had been signed, an announcement would have been made by now (unless it fell through)...

Additionally when these deals are worked on, they usually use terms like "we don't discuss future plans." Not a categorical no.

If you own a house, and you are thinking about selling your house, it would be a good idea to maybe fix up the house before you sell it to get the most money you can for it. That's was Disney did with Maelstrom, they referbed the exterior water fall right before they went to renegotiate the inside with the Norwegian Sponsors. If Universal sells the Marvel rights, Disney will be paying for their new coaster, and Universal can keep the coaster, they would just have to get rid of the signs that say "Hulk"

Yes, it makes sense to remodel a house before selling. If you're selling the house. What if you were selling the idea of the house? And in doing so, you'd have to turn around and remodel it into something totally different. There is simply no parallel.

Also fixing some rock work is a far cry from spending tens of millions on a Hulk themed coaster only to turn around and spend millions on remodeling it again.

I actually have better thing to do with my time than explain this stuff to strangers on the internet

Why are you on a Disney message board? The whole point is to explain things to strangers.

 

[rteetz]

uhh yeah dude ...if you keep ignoring the facts you'll have a hard time understanding how these very complex business deals work

How does people wanting carsland in Florida have to do with complex business deals? I also don't see where people are upset that carsland isn't coming. I'd like to see some proof of that. I also haven't been ignoring your facts but you haven't presented any to me that show that universal is ready to give up marvel.

 

[rteetz]

They still haven't give the new name of the Hollywood Studio Park yet either, or what will become of the Star Wars Launch Bay in Animation Courtyard after the new Star Wars land opens... which means the aren't done announcing things yet

Marvel is not coming to DHS. At least not soon.

 

[DanBoris]

it's not conjecture, it's economics, you can stay in business selling you competition's product for them. If Burger King decided they wanted to start selling Mc Donald's Big Mac sandwich, and they had to by the ingredients from McDonald's so it tastes the same, and they had to share the profits with McDonald's... they wouldn'tmake near as much money as the would selling their own Whopper sandwich. Universal can't build rides based on Disney's Marvel movie characters with out paying Disney

And you how know people are all up in arms that no Carsland coming to Florida? Well is Disney starts building super cool Marvel attractions at all their parks around the world but can't build them in Florida because the guys at Universal won't give up the rights than they be pariahs in the eyes of the Disney fans

A better example would be Burger selling a Big Mac which they buy from MacDonalds for $0.01 each as opposed to selling their own burger that costs then $0.50 each to make. Universal is paying a bargain price for Marvel which is going to take a lot of the sting out of selling it's competitors product.

Why would Universal care if there were views as a pariah in the eyes of Disney fans? Anyone who is that big a Disney fan probably isn't going to be going to Universal anyway. Most people going to Orlando theme parks don't care one bit about company politics. If they are Marvel fans they will go to which ever park has the Marvel attractions.

 

[bcrook]

From the latest things I've heard they are starting realize they need capacity and with Star Wars not coming on right away they are going to need something done. It could end being that Star Wars is the last thing that opens and toy story and "phase 3" get built first. It will be interesting to watch but initially that area will be staging for toy story.

So this is the narrative for Hollywood Studios:

Disney who unveiled the plans for Pandora in 2011 and won't open it until 2017. And who took 5 years to build the diminutive 7DMT, will suddenly start building new lands without even leaking the information out to the public. AND they could be built within in a few years.

I LIKE this NEW DISNEY of which you speak.

Iger and Disney have described pretty clearly with several different press releases what Toy Story Land and Star Wars Land will look like. The Harrison Ford introduction and video was a fairly good introduction to Star Wars Land. We know that there will be a Cantina, Dinner Club, Some kind of Stormtrooper (trackless?) ride, and a Mission Space type Millennium Falcon with cool theming and shops. Most likely an updated Jedi Academy Location.

BUT, there are secret plans not mentioned in any public way, that could be developed into a whole new land including an E-ticket ride. AND it could be built BEFORE Star Wars Land.

I have to say this would be a huge shift away from the last 10 years strategy. It would be an amazing score! The only drawback to this magnificent story is that Star Wars Land would be put off into the future substantially.

IF they clear out the LMA/SoA area to make a staging area for Toy Story Land. Then build "Phase 3" second (making it "Phase 2"). Then tear down Indiana Jones Theater and Echo Lake area so they can expand out into the parking lot to create Star Wars Land (the new Phase 3). Optimistically this would be completed by 2023? That would be good though - because the grand opening could then coincide with D23. But it would miss out on all the hype of the films. Star Wars IX is projected to be ready for theaters in what 2019 or sooner.

While all this is going on, DisneyLand will be opening up Star Wars Land in what late 2018?

I love this story. WDW desperately needs more attractions. LOTS of attractions.

 

[Eoghann]

BUT, there are secret plans not mentioned in any public way, that could be developed into a whole new land including an E-ticket ride. AND it could be built BEFORE Star Wars Land.

Well to be fair there are always unannounced plans. Many of them. Some of them may well be sufficiently developed that they could be implemented quite quickly if a certain person says yes and releases funds.

Doesn't mean it's going to happen, but I completely believe there are plans.

 

[bcrook]

Well to be fair there are always unannounced plans. Many of them. Some of them may well be sufficiently developed that they could be implemented quite quickly if a certain person says yes and releases funds.

Doesn't mean it's going to happen, but I completely believe there are plans.

Sure, I understand that. I'm sure Disney has oodles of imagineering ideas and plans. But rarely does Disney sneak something out there without getting a substantial amount of buzz and press well in advance. And in some cases 5-7 years. A major attraction and surrounding supporting areas would be quite spectacular. It would be a complete change in the way that Disney operates. Just the mention of upcoming attractions, causes Disney Fan world to get excited. I know it does for me. I have been looking forward to the River of Lights and Night Time Safari now for a couple of years.

It's fascinating that a third unannounced land in DHS could open before Star Wars. Fascinating.

 

[rteetz]

So this is the narrative for Hollywood Studios:

Disney who unveiled the plans for Pandora in 2011 and won't open it until 2017. And who took 5 years to build the diminutive 7DMT, will suddenly start building new lands without even leaking the information out to the public. AND they could be built within in a few years.

I LIKE this NEW DISNEY of which you speak.

Iger and Disney have described pretty clearly with several different press releases what Toy Story Land and Star Wars Land will look like. The Harrison Ford introduction and video was a fairly good introduction to Star Wars Land. We know that there will be a Cantina, Dinner Club, Some kind of Stormtrooper (trackless?) ride, and a Mission Space type Millennium Falcon with cool theming and shops. Most likely an updated Jedi Academy Location.

BUT, there are secret plans not mentioned in any public way, that could be developed into a whole new land including an E-ticket ride. AND it could be built BEFORE Star Wars Land.

I have to say this would be a huge shift away from the last 10 years strategy. It would be an amazing score! The only drawback to this magnificent story is that Star Wars Land would be put off into the future substantially.

IF they clear out the LMA/SoA area to make a staging area for Toy Story Land. Then build "Phase 3" second (making it "Phase 2"). Then tear down Indiana Jones Theater and Echo Lake area so they can expand out into the parking lot to create Star Wars Land (the new Phase 3). Optimistically this would be completed by 2023? That would be good though - because the grand opening could then coincide with D23. But it would miss out on all the hype of the films. Star Wars IX is projected to be ready for theaters in what 2019 or sooner.

While all this is going on, DisneyLand will be opening up Star Wars Land in what late 2018?

I love this story. WDW desperately needs more attractions. LOTS of attractions.

7DMT did not take five years to build. Fantasyland was done in phases. If I'm not mistaken it took around 3 years for mine train.

Everything is supposed to be completed by 2021.

Yes Disneyland is looking at 2018 for Star Wars.

 

[bcrook]

7DMT did not take five years to build. Fantasyland was done in phases. If I'm not mistaken it took around 3 years for mine train.

Ah your right, sorry about that. It took 40 months. 3.3 years. First announcement.

 

[DanBoris]

Ah your right, sorry about that. It took 40 months. 3.3 years. First announcement.

That was from announcement. The actual build time was around 32 months. The time between announcement and start of construction tends to vary a lot so it's not a real good measure of anything. The new Fantasyland had a very small gap, Avatar had a very large one, and if you look at Universal they often do not announce until construction is well under way.

 

[eXo]

Rohde was put in charge of Avatar land 5 years ago... anyway

I didn't realize this wasn't common knowledge to everybody... but since people on your borads seem to live in some kind of alternate reality here's the "Facts" for you

I only see one person living in an alternate reality here....

First off, Disney now owns the film rights to Spiderman now but they a leasing those rights to Sony who will be producing the stand alone Spiderman films, and those films will take place within the "Marvel Cinematic Universe" story continuity, which is overseen by Marvel Studios Chief Kevin Feige.

Wrong. For someone so quick to insult others about not knowing things, you are pulling things out of thin air. Sony still has the movie rights to Spider-man. What has changed is they have agreed on a partnership where Marvel is now allowed to use the Spider-Man character in their films without paying a license fee. Marvel will not receive *ANY* money from Sony for Sony films which have Spider-Man in them, and Sony will not receive *ANY* money from Disney for any Marvel films Spidey is in.

http://variety.com/2015/film/news/details-spider-man-appear-in-sony-and-marvel-movies-1201429039/

While some news sources that reported this story called it a "lease", there was absolutely no money involved. It was a quid pro quo transaction. Sony was for it because now someone else can spend time and money making Spider-Man valuable again, and then they can pop in and make movies based on this newly popular Spider-Man and profit from them. At best he is a "shared" character at this point.

Universal's Marvel theme park rights in Orlando is the only thing that stands in the way of this plan, except I think the guys at Universal are smart enough to not stand in the way because will only end up becoming pariahs if they do. Plus their current Marvel attractions are in the same kind of legal situation as Disney's Roger Rabbit's cartoon spin in Anaheim and Tokyo. Disney built that ride while they had the rights to do so, and they still have the right to own, operate, and maintain it forever if they choose but they can't expand upon it without OK of the people who own the rights to the Roger Rabbit characters, and Disney are the people who now own the Marvel characters, and the cinematic versions of those characters are what the general public knows and will want to see in a theme park setting.

Wrong again. They can update\add rides very easily. What they can't do is do anything that would devalue the characters. Universal does not need Disney\Marvel's approval to make changes to that section of the park. At best, if they do make a change and Disney feels they can actually prove the change "devalues" the characters involved, then they can attempt to take Universal to court. However proving that a new ride is hurting a characters value would be nearly impossible to get passed any judge.

The irony here is that not only have they upgraded the footage in the Spiderman ride to HD and now nearly finished replacing the Hulk, but there are strong rumors of expanding Marvel Island into what is currently known as the "Carnage Warehouse" (a backstage by-product building from the 2002 Halloween Horror Nights Maximum Carnage maze).

These are the facts though,

No, this is a ton of info about what Kevin Feige has done, some misinformation about the Spidey license and the Universal contract, and a lot of conjecture on your part. Plenty of people here would claim they "strayed from Uncle Walt" decades ago.

 

[Lee Matthews]

I'm so interested in what we think phase 3 is actually going to be.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm so interested in what we think phase 3 is actually going to be.

If you've been reading the tea leaves on recent trends...it's likely to be "service area/dumpster space behind facade walls"

 

[Planogirl]

I haven't read this thread in a while so I'll just say "wow". I'll only add that Universal would become a pariah to only a handful of Disney devotees if even them. Most people have no idea that there is any kind of arrangement between Universal and Disney and I bet that most of those who do don't really care.

Back to the topic, I've heard that Phase 3 is pretty much DOA too, at least for now.

 

[eXo]

Phase 3 is likely simply a roadmap.

Disney knows Star Wars Land is going to be big. What is unclear is exactly how big Star Wars Land and Toy Story land end up being together. If the park is jam packed every day when these two lands open, then it is likely a phase 3 will *eventually* get greenlit, but they likely won't see it as a pressing matter. After all, why start building more stuff when they are already packing people in. The entire point of building attractions is to attract people.

The two scenarios in which you want a phase 3 is if somehow the two lands on the table under perform and they think the park needs a third phase to get it up to par. Or, the two lands perform amazingly well, and they want to attempt to up the attractions to spread people out. Both of those scenarios have pitfalls. If the two lands under perform, then one could argue that they would cut budgets. At that point phase 3 turns into something like Camp Minnie Mickey. If they do amazingly well, then we have to ask ourselves whether or not they would decide that money is better spent on further improving DHS, putting it towards something else that needs attention *cough EPCOT cough*, or just saving the money and not spending it at all.

Either way, to make any of those decisions above, they have to have something on paper to be able to consider the best route forward.

Over at Universal there have been rumors of a Ministry of Magic being built on top of the old Fear factor theater ever since Diagon Alley first opened up. The layout allows the area to be built that way, easter eggs such as dialing MAGIC on the pay phone tell patrons that the ministry is currently closed but to call back once it opens, etc. What I rarely see in articles or thread about this though is an admission that just because someone sketched up an idea for this third potter phase, doesn't mean they put a date to break ground on it. Diagon Alley is already doing wonders for that park. It makes much more sense financially to turn their attention to IOA, Volcano Bay, and the new tract of land they acquired than to continually make the Diagon Alley area even more jampacked.

Once IOA gets a few makeovers and Volcano bay opens they can then look at USF again and decide whether or not that phase 3 still makes sense. Maybe people will be sick of Potter by that time and they decide a new IP would do better there. Or maybe they decide exactly what their wizarding world needs is a fresh attraction to draw folks back again. Either way, a phase 3 has to be outlined (or even several potential phase 3's), in order to make those decisions.

The short version is, it wouldn't do anyone any good to know what is being tossed about as a potential phase 3 because it has every chance of either not being built, being heavily changed between now and then, or being one of a few potential ideas.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

If we're all acknowledging that "phase me" isn't likely to ever be built...then does it in fact exist on the fourth existential plane?

I mean...after I saw Top Gun I planned to build an aircraft carrier in the stream in our backyard. It even got budgeted FY87...
...but it never got greenlit

 

[rteetz]

If we're all acknowledging that "phase me" isn't likely to ever be built...then does it in fact exist on the fourth existential plane?

I mean...after I saw Top Gun I planned to build an aircraft carrier in the stream in our backyard. It even got budgeted FY87...
...but it never got greenlit

I know we are talking about Disney and we all know their history but why aren't you even slightly optimistic that a phase three could happen.

 

[eXo]

You used "optimistic" in a sentence with lockedoutlogic.

He assumes the worst at all times.

 

[Eoghann]

If we're all acknowledging that "phase me" isn't likely to ever be built...then does it in fact exist on the fourth existential plane?

I mean...after I saw Top Gun I planned to build an aircraft carrier in the stream in our backyard. It even got budgeted FY87...
...but it never got greenlit

Just because something doesn't happen doesn't some how retroactively remove it from history. The phase exist(ed/s) and plans were drawn up.

Even if the phase never actually happens, which was always a risk, those plans may well resurface 20 years later because that's what Disney does.

Rumors are at best a snapshot in time. I don't know why people have so much trouble coping with that.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I know we are talking about Disney and we all know their history but why aren't you even slightly optimistic that a phase three could happen.

Reasons?

1. NYSE
2. Long term problems already documented 1,000 times over
3. Current Management
4. Future Management
5. Unlikely to continue billion dollar investments on guest services in Orlando for an extended period of time beyond current one.

It's a bit of semantics as well. If they build an additional section in 2027...it's not "phase 3"...it's just another capex brought about by Spaceballs 2: The Search for more money...

Call it what you want...they wouldn't have saved quarters in their piggy from 2015 for it...that's like saying the Alamo Dome in San Antonio is "phase II" of the actual Alamo.