Miami area condo collapse

[luvthatduke]

I don't disagree with any of the posts here.
My concern is for the people who are still
waiting for their loved ones to be found.
A woman who's husband is still there, somewhere,
is very upset.
The judge made the ruling that the sale process
should start immediately,
and I am sympathetic to the survivors,
but to the few who are still waiting it apparently
gave them quite a shock that night when they heard it.
I don't think there's a perfect solution,
but I would think there will be buyers waiting in the wings so why the rush for this week?

 

[floridafam]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/designing-surfside-condo-fell-engineer-190132282.html

 

[Princessclab]

I agree. I don’t see a reason to delay once the property has been cleared of all human remains. The survivors were owners of the interior of their condo, not the land, so they have nothing to sell in order to find a new place to live. It sounds like the judge is trying to make multiple avenues of restitution available to these victims as quickly as possible. I can’t find fault with that.

I can sympathize with survivors who may be wishing for the building to be rebuilt so they have somewhere to live, but if it were me, I wouldn’t want to live there again. It would be too hard to be in the same place, with all the memories of that horrible night. I am not sure I would want to live in a high rise again after that. I have never lived in a condo. Do the purchase contracts address what happens if the overall structure is condemned or otherwise found unlivable?

Who owns the land?
In my situation it is owned by the community of which I am part owner.
The community is run by the HOA board.

 

[fla4fun]

Who owns the land?
In my situation it is owned by the community of which I am part owner.
The community is run by the HOA board.

Yay! Someone with some firsthand knowledge. So how is it worded in your purchase contract as far as the land and what happens to the owner of the unit if the building is condemned, or as in this case, no longer exists? My comment about the land was coming from the standpoint that I did not believe an individual owner could transact a sale of any portion of the land on their own. Since you say it’s owned by your community, that would appear to tie in with the judge saying the proceeds would be divided up among the owners or their estates. Do you need a certain number of people to agree to the sale? Articles I have read about the collapsed condo have mentioned that several of the board members quit approximately two years ago, implying it was due to dissention regarding the special assessments for the repairs. Do you typically need a certain number of people on the board in order for decisions to be made? Is this why a judge might have to step in? I find the logistics very interesting since I have never been the owner in a communal property development (condo, townhouse, etc.). I tried Google, but couldn’t find a clear answer for a situation like this. Any clarity you can provide as to how it all works would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[JimMIA]

Who owns the land?
In my situation it is owned by the community of which I am part owner.
The community is run by the HOA board.

I haven't researched the legal issues involved, and I'm sure they are numerous and complicated.

But there is a court-appointed receiver who is in charge of collecting all the monies that are due the owners of that condo. There is something like $30 million in insurance, plus the $100+ million the sale of the property is expected to bring.

That attorney, Michael Goldberg, is responsible for distributing that to the owners -- subject to approval of the court. He has testified in court that there is no consensus among the owners -- some want a memorial, some want the property sold, some want it left as vacant land, etc.

 

[fla4fun]

He has testified in court that there is no consensus among the owners -- some want a memorial, some want the property sold, some want it left as vacant land, etc.

That is what has me curious as to the purchase contracts. If there is no current board, or an insufficient board, I would think getting a consensus from the survivors would be extremely difficult. These are people who have been severely traumatized and may not be thinking clearly right now. Contractual agreements and legal proceedings can be done through third parties who aren’t as closely affected.

I am all for getting them some compensation as quickly as possible so they can begin to recover economically (housing, transportation, replacing important documents) but at the same time I hope that whoever is in charge of doing so is focused on what is best for the survivors. I especially hope they don’t sell the property until it has been cleared of human remains, as I feel that would be beyond disrespectful. I am concerned that a new owner would be primarily concerned with redevelopment, not recovering the remaining victims.

 

[JimMIA]

That is what has me curious as to the purchase contracts. If there is no current board, or an insufficient board, I would think getting a consensus from the survivors would be extremely difficult. These are people who have been severely traumatized and may not be thinking clearly right now. Contractual agreements and legal proceedings can be done through third parties who aren’t as closely affected.

As for the legalities, I have no idea and am not going to speculate. Condo law is complex.

That said, I am confident that the judge and the attorney selected as receiver have abundant legal cover for whatever they are doing. They would have to be pretty stupid to go outside their authority. I'm sure their focus is to protect the interests of the owners and their families.

I especially hope they don’t sell the property until it has been cleared of human remains, as I feel that would be beyond disrespectful. I am concerned that a new owner would be primarily concerned with redevelopment, not recovering the remaining victims.

Nothing will be done until the building has been completely searched and there are no remains left behind. Right now, the building and all the debris which has been removed -- along with all the belongings, as well as human remains -- are one big crime scene in several venues. Nobody will have any legal access to the property until the police release the crime scene.

 

[bcla]

I am all for getting them some compensation as quickly as possible so they can begin to recover economically (housing, transportation, replacing important documents) but at the same time I hope that whoever is in charge of doing so is focused on what is best for the survivors. I especially hope they don’t sell the property until it has been cleared of human remains, as I feel that would be beyond disrespectful. I am concerned that a new owner would be primarily concerned with redevelopment, not recovering the remaining victims.

They'll take all that into consideration. I wouldn't be like a certain country where they had a high-speed rail collision where they claimed they had to quickly bury the train (rumored to include severe deceased inside the train) in the interests of protecting technology secrets.

 

[JimMIA]

I'm not familiar with this artist, but apparently she was pretty well known as DJ Theresa. She was a partner in the recording label Audio4play and an executive with Live Nation Entertainment. She arrived the night before the collapse to visit her parents, who lived in Champlain Towers South. All of their bodies were recovered.

https://www.local10.com/news/local/...-surfside-building-collapse-to-visit-parents/

 

[JimMIA]

The latest totals are as follows:

• 97 known dead
• 95 victims identified, and all next of kin notified
• 241 accounted for. This includes people who were in the building and survived, and also many people who were initially believed to be in the building, but were located by police and confirmed to be safe.

I can't find any info on people still unaccounted for, so I don't know if anyone is still missing. I think not, but we won't know until authorities make a formal announcement.

 

[Princessclab]

Yay! Someone with some firsthand knowledge. So how is it worded in your purchase contract as far as the land and what happens to the owner of the unit if the building is condemned, or as in this case, no longer exists? My comment about the land was coming from the standpoint that I did not believe an individual owner could transact a sale of any portion of the land on their own. Since you say it’s owned by your community, that would appear to tie in with the judge saying the proceeds would be divided up among the owners or their estates. Do you need a certain number of people to agree to the sale? Articles I have read about the collapsed condo have mentioned that several of the board members quit approximately two years ago, implying it was due to dissention regarding the special assessments for the repairs. Do you typically need a certain number of people on the board in order for decisions to be made? Is this why a judge might have to step in? I find the logistics very interesting since I have never been the owner in a communal property development (condo, townhouse, etc.). I tried Google, but couldn’t find a clear answer for a situation like this. Any clarity you can provide as to how it all works would be appreciated. Thanks!

I can only answer the questions I know about our community/HOA/state laws.

That said I live in a TH not a condo HOA but here where I live the State laws are the same for each type of community; here they are called a Common Interest Community (CIC). Each State has their own CIC laws but in my experience, being on the BOD, most of these state laws are very common with other states. BOD often leverage other state laws to assist in the running or getting laws changed.
HOA's are obligated by State laws, CIC bylaws and Community specific rules & regulations; they are all legal documents.

Each TH here is on a lot that is sold with the TH.
I do not know about what would happen if the whole community was destroyed and only the land was left; though our community bylaws etc. do say that the community/HOA is responsible for the buildings and the land (called common elements in our bylaws) and therefore own the land even if their are no buildings on it.

Our elected BOD must have a Quorum, which is defined in our bylaws, to make decisions and vote on maintenance issues. I think the press does not know what they are talking about when they call the BOD insufficient or non-existent. (Classic media, reporting without know the truth...sorry) If people resign from the BOD often others can be appointed by the BOD to fill that position until that term is up; this expedites or supports the HO community to have a voice.

Any issues/problems of major spending must be approved of by the HO by vote; in ours major spending is not just a BOD decision. Major is also defined. There has been a new State law that stipulates that the BOD is obligated to keep the property up to inspection standards. It seems to override any vote by the community if things are emergent. So a separate 'assessment' can be done. We have not had any of those yet so when things are 'backed up against a wall' I imagine it is difficult and then the BOD gets blamed. JMHO.
If the major assessment is not voted in, the BOD can increase dues by a certain percent and spend the money on 'emergent' issues.

I do not know why there is a judge stepping in but I can speculate and understand why; lots of lives lost, lost of $$$ involved, underlying issues with the community itself, insurance and government regulations and laws/issues.
I am glad to see this, as this is horrific and people are very stressed about every aspect of it. Someone needs to get a handle and organized on how things can or should be moving forward.
Hopefully the judge will look at all of the aspects and decide to help and look-out for the good of the HO.

Again this is ONLY my situation and not the situation in FL.
Hope this helps somewhat.

 

[JimMIA]

There has not been any formal announcement, but it appears that the Champlain Towers recovery effort is finished. All rubble has been removed.

The latest totals are 97 dead, 96 identified with family notifications complete, and either 1 or 2 still unaccounted for.

242 people have been accounted for, and that number includes people who escaped the collapse and people initially believed to be in the building but later located and found to be safe.

There is going to be a memorial concert this Sunday, July 25 on the beach near the hotel where the families were housed. I would assume a formal announcement will be made prior to that concert.

Here's some info on the concert from a news article:

"Surfside is working with their Bal Harbour neighbors to hold a memorial concert this Sunday, July 25 at the 96th Street beach.

Bal Harbour is contributing to the concert through the South Florida Symphony Orchestra. The Orchestra is providing additional musicians, a cantor, and a singer for the occasion.

The concert will be from 6 p.m. to 7:30 p.m. Seating is limited.

The names of the victims will be read at the end with a live butterfly release to follow."

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It's very sad all of this. It must have been terrifying when it happened and incomprehensible on how loved ones and search and rescue felt in the aftermath

I wonder if this will be like the Hyatt walkway collapse that happened in my area where 114 died and another 216 injured. The 40th anniversary of that just occurred; that event is talked about year after year here and it also led to a lot of reform in engineering and safety.

 

[JimMIA]

In the latest update this morning, police have identified the 97th victim, completing the remains identification process. All remains recovered have been positively identified and all families have been notified.

There is still a 98th person missing. Police think they know who she is, but have not found her remains and therefore can't make a positive determination.

 

[neverlandsky]

As for the legalities, I have no idea and am not going to speculate. Condo law is complex.

That said, I am confident that the judge and the attorney selected as receiver have abundant legal cover for whatever they are doing. They would have to be pretty stupid to go outside their authority. I'm sure their focus is to protect the interests of the owners and their families.
Nothing will be done until the building has been completely searched and there are no remains left behind. Right now, the building and all the debris which has been removed -- along with all the belongings, as well as human remains -- are one big crime scene in several venues. Nobody will have any legal access to the property until the police release the crime scene.

Just wanted to say this is all true. Anything with HOA/CO-OPs is complex.

Also when relative had total loss of their home due to a faulty attic wire fire no HOA involved. It was 6 months until fire department/inspectors/claim adjustors/city/etc. released the property back to the owners/relatives for them to get resoration in to tear everything down to the foundation. The only thing owners/relatives could do was they had to immediately put a fence up around the property so there was no public access at all including the owners/relatives themselves. There's a huge checklist of what had to be done before resoration then rebuilding. With rebuilding it took them another 2 years due to premits, contractors, updating all building codes to current, etc. It was a very exhausting lengthly process just for just one home. Couldn't even imagine what a mid-size condo total loss timeline would take with recovery, demo, adjusters, claims, permits, rebuilding, etc.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Chimming in here saying this is all true. Anything with HOA/CO-OPs is complex.

Also when relative had total loss of their home due to a faulty attic wire fire no HOA involved. It was 6 months until fire department/inspectors/claim adjustors/city/etc. released the property back to the owners/relatives for them to get resoration in to tear everything down to the foundation. The only thing owners/relatives could do was they had to immediately put a fence up around the property so there was no public access at all including the owners/relatives themselves. There's a huge checklist of what had to be done before resoration then rebuilding. With rebuilding it took them another 2 years due to premits, contractors, updating all building codes to current, etc. It was a very exhausting lengthly process just for just one home. Couldn't even imagine what a mid-size condo total loss timeline would take with recovery, demo, adjusters, claims, permits, rebuilding, etc.

That's why some people take the ACV (actual cash value) and go elsewhere. Sometimes it's just more work, time, and expense to rebuild on the same property than it is to just take a reduced cash amount and go elsewhere. Although the converse of that is true. I saw claims of homes burned down several times (in CA and CO IIRC) due to wildfires and people just kept rebuilding again. Saw that also in the Oklahoma City area too due to tornados and storms (although I saw more roof replacements every several years on the same home in that case rather than a total rebuild that I saw in other areas). Talking about homes though rather than condo or duplex or townhouse.

 

[JimMIA]

Just wanted to say this is all true. Anything with HOA/CO-OPs is complex.

Also when relative had total loss of their home due to a faulty attic wire fire no HOA involved. It was 6 months until fire department/inspectors/claim adjustors/city/etc. released the property back to the owners/relatives for them to get resoration in to tear everything down to the foundation. The only thing owners/relatives could do was they had to immediately put a fence up around the property so there was no public access at all including the owners/relatives themselves. There's a huge checklist of what had to be done before resoration then rebuilding. With rebuilding it took them another 2 years due to premits, contractors, updating all building codes to current, etc. It was a very exhausting lengthly process just for just one home. Couldn't even imagine what a mid-size condo total loss timeline would take with recovery, demo, adjusters, claims, permits, rebuilding, etc.

Well, the building has been completely demolished.

Right now, that judge and receiver are focused on the first step which is to collect about $50 million in insurance and sell the property for about $100 million in order to get some money to the victims as soon as possible. That money will go to ALL victims, whether they owned a unit, were renting, or just vacationing.

There are also more than two dozen additional lawsuits already filed, and many more to come probably.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Well, the building has been completely demolished, as shown below.

Right now, that judge and receiver are focused on the first step which is to collect about $50 million in insurance and sell the property for about $100 million in order to get some money to the victims as soon as possible. That money will go to ALL victims, whether they owned a unit, were renting, or just vacationing.

There are also more than two dozen additional lawsuits already filed, and many more to come probably.

View attachment 591306

The photo gives me chills.

 

[JimMIA]

The photo gives me chills.

Me too. I deleted it.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Me too. I deleted it.