I don't understand why its such a big deal to take your children out of school..

[graygables]

My now senior DD broke her arm in the Fall of 2003 and missed several days of school (pain killers, cast adjustments, etc). We had won a trip to WDW from Kellogg's and already had it scheduled for Dec of 2003. I was told by the asst principal that DD would be denied credit if she missed more than 11 days *excused* or not. I was also told that *I* was not able to excuse her for the days she missed strung out on painkillers. The ONLY excuses were from doctors, dentists, or judges.

In Jan, sure enough, she was denied credit for her classes, although she had earned As and Bs and was in honors classes. After sending the school a letter reminding them of my constitutional parental rights, she was reinstated. It wasn't long after, however, that I was asked to homeschool her honors history class b/c the teacher wanted to show an R rated movie (s-e-you know what, and all) to sophomores, some of whom where only 15 yo and I wouldn't allow it, so he'd kicked her out of his class. I did one better, withdrew her, and put her in a charter e-school. Now the PS doesn't get financial credit for her, either (if I just homeschooled, they would), and they don't get to use her test scores to pull up their failing students average.

I am a former public school teacher and can tell you the schools are getting too big for their britches. Yes, some of it is no child left behind, and some of it is state legislation, but a lot of it is the local school district usurping parental rights. It's simple. File a declaration of parental rights, including your right to the care, custody, and control of your child with the office. I have yet to find a school attorney who can argue the case.

 

[staci]

I wouldn't WANT my child to have a teacher that didnt take any time for themselves Everyone needs a break, ESPECIALLY teachers!

Yeah to all the teachers who do so much for our kids!! You take a break, you deserve it!

 

[judoha]

That's ridiculous. Do you know any teachers? Any teachers in the family? Please run that by them & see what they say. We are professionals & are allowed time off just like most any others. Yes, people going into the ministry know they will need to "work" Christmas & Easter, but teaching is 180 days & we are entitled to use our leave just like other professionals.

I wasn't going to respond to this at first, but that statement is ridiculous. Any other teachers out there?
Heck, even the President takes a vacation now & then.

I sure do know many teachers and have many in my family - not that it's relevant.

Part of being a "professional" is meeting your professional responsibilities. When you decide to become a teacher, you have a responsibility to all of the children in your classroom. You also have more vacation weeks during the year than in any other "professional" job I can name and I am not considering vocations such as "NFL tight end". You have plenty of other opportunities in which to schedule your vacations without it impacting, not just your own children who you are taking out of school but the 10-150 children a year who are in your classes (depending upon the level at which you teach and the number of classes you teach and the number of students in each class).

Even a tight end has plenty of time in which he cannot take vacation time because he has to be on the job!

I consider it negligent to choose to take vacation time during the school year on the part of the teacher and leave the class with a substitute, no matter how "well thought out" or crafted your lesson plans may be. As a teacher, you set an example for your students and the example you are setting is that the children are not important to you and neither is their education. When you enter the field of education, you realize there are trade offs just as in other jobs.

That said, if my children were assigned to a teacher who chose to take leave simply to go to Disney World during the school year, my kids would be pulled from those classes so fast it wouldn't be funny and a formal complaint would be filed withthe principal of the school and the school administration. In fact, I have done just that in the past and if it happens again, I'd do the same.

 

[daisyduck123]

That said, if my children were assigned to a teacher who chose to take leave simply to go to Disney World during the school year, my kids would be pulled from those classes so fast it wouldn't be funny and a formal complaint would be filed withthe principal of the school and the school administration. In fact, I have done just that in the past and if it happens again, I'd do the same.

Ridiculous again! Believe me, your children will have teachers who will take vacations. Good luck with that formal complaint. It won't go far at all. Any teacher who has leave is entitled to use it. I don't have time to respond further because I am off to my school now.

 

[Teacher03]

I sure do know many teachers and have many in my family - not that it's relevant.

Part of being a "professional" is meeting your professional responsibilities. When you decide to become a teacher, you have a responsibility to all of the children in your classroom. You also have more vacation weeks during the year than in any other "professional" job I can name and I am not considering vocations such as "NFL tight end". You have plenty of other opportunities in which to schedule your vacations without it impacting, not just your own children who you are taking out of school but the 10-150 children a year who are in your classes (depending upon the level at which you teach and the number of classes you teach and the number of students in each class).

Even a tight end has plenty of time in which he cannot take vacation time because he has to be on the job



I consider it negligent to choose to take vacation time during the school year on the part of the teacher and leave the class with a substitute, no matter how "well thought out" or crafted your lesson plans may be. As a teacher, you set an example for your students and the example you are setting is that the children are not important to you and neither is their education. When you enter the field of education, you realize there are trade offs just as in other jobs.

That said, if my children were assigned to a teacher who chose to take leave simply to go to Disney World during the school year, my kids would be pulled from those classes so fast it wouldn't be funny and a formal complaint would be filed withthe principal of the school and the school administration. In fact, I have done just that in the past and if it happens again, I'd do the same.

I feel you are being very judgemental. Yes, I do get a lot of vacation time in the summer, but I am working on my Master's degree and spend much of my summer taking classes or workshops. I think you are very unfair to your own children if you pull them from a class just because a teacher uses her personal days. It is none of your business what she or he does with them, that's why they are called personal days. Good luck with that formal complaint!

 

[LoveTink05]

That's ridiculous. Do you know any teachers? Any teachers in the family? Please run that by them & see what they say. We are professionals & are allowed time off just like most any others. Yes, people going into the ministry know they will need to "work" Christmas & Easter, but teaching is 180 days & we are entitled to use our leave just like other professionals.

I wasn't going to respond to this at first, but that statement is ridiculous. Any other teachers out there?
Heck, even the President takes a vacation now & then.

Yes, I am a teacher also...but you are not going to like my response. In my opinion, it is very unprofessional for a teacher to take time off from work for a vacation. Especially for the reasons that you have previously stated. Now, someone mentioned having a spouse in the Army and the fact that they might not have any other time to take their vacation. To me, that is a different story.

I, personally, feel that I have quite enough time during the school year for vacations--Thanksgiving (1 Week), Christmas (2 WEEKS!), Easter, MLK, Spring Break, Labor Day). Maybe you don't have as many holidays as I do. (Let's don't even start about the President and HIS vacations!--I hope you were kidding)

 

[LoveTink05]

It's all dumb--most often it is tied to the money the schools receive..if your children are not there, they do not get credit finanically for that day for your student.

However--it is your student! Ultimately--you are their parent and not the school district.

I understand the reasons for the rules. However, I think they lost sight of the "good" reasons to have the rules and are more concerned with the money they will not get when your student is not there.

"It's all dumb" ???

I must respectfully disagree with you on the money issue. When a student has excessive absenses, we are mainly concerned with their progress in their classes and the possibility that they will fail those classes. THAT is why there are absentee policies in place. Too often, there are parents who will allow their children to have excessive absenses for absolutely no reason. (I'm not talking about illnesses) These particular parents are the very ones who will get irate when their children fail.

So, please, think twice before you criticize schools and the people who run them.

 

[graygables]

"It's all dumb" ???

I must respectfully disagree with you on the money issue. When a student has excessive absenses, we are mainly concerned with their progress in their classes and the possibility that they will fail those classes. THAT is why there are absentee policies in place. Too often, there are parents who will allow their children to have excessive absenses for absolutely no reason. (I'm not talking about illnesses) These particular parents are the very ones who will get irate when their children fail.

So, please, think twice before you criticize schools and the people who run them.

It IS dumb and it IS all about money. "Excessive" absences do not necessarily equal failure in class. I spent more of my childhood out of a classroom than in for illness and travel (we lived in Germany for 7 years and spent over a year's worth of time travelling during the school year as it was the only time my dad could get leave). When we returned to the States, the same notion of "travel is education" stayed with my parents and I have been to all of the 50 states except the Dakotas, Wyoming, and Montana. I more than exceeded the current number of abscence policies and I still graduated (a year early, could have been 2, but for a principal with control issues) with a decent GPA, went to college, missed a lot of class there and also graduated with a 3.6 (including 4 hours of F for the French class I rebelled in) The assumption that a student is somehow going to fail because their rearend isn't warming a seat is incorrect. The assumption that a family does not value education b/c they choose to travel is incorrect.

I understand the need for attendance policies for parents who are deadbeats and do NOT value education, but if my children can succeed without being bored out of their minds staring out the classroom window, then so be it. Yet another reason to appreciate our charter e-school. Not only do they NOT CARE when I go on vacation, they actually reimburse our WDW tickets as an educational field trip expense.

 

[Banshee]

Too often, there are parents who will allow their children to have excessive absenses for absolutely no reason. (I'm not talking about illnesses) These particular parents are the very ones who will get irate when their children fail.

LOL I have one of those parents across the street from me!! The child is extremely spoiled and has mommy and daddy wrapped around her little finger! Kindergarten first and second grades each year she missed about 18 to 21 days per year! Not one of those days were for beign sick! They were all just "I dont feel like going!!" and this was screamed out of her mouth in the front yard most mornings!!Her knidergarten teacher and the child study team suggested she repeat kindergarten because they felt she wasnt mature enough! Well lets just say that,that went over like a lead balloon!! Her mom went into hysterics about it!! "how dare they" "my baby isnt stupid she is intelligent!" I told her it has nothing to do with her intelligence that they feel she is a little immature (and I agree!!) But she wouldnt listen and on to 1st grade she went!! Her theory (the mom) is that school is hard and she deserves to take days off here and there! My theory is... she is a brat especially when she is in the front yard at 7:20 in the morning(waking my toddler up who normally sleeps till 8:00) screaming at the top of her lungs that she is not going to school!!! Her mom asked if my older DS would talk to her that school is fun. Which he did try but it did not work. And every year she asks "will he sit with her on the bus?" and usually we say ok, but not this year because about after a week she does not want to even ride the bus anymore!! So now my DS is odd man out and has to sit alone! So this year he sat with his friend which did not go over well! And my neighbor comes over in a not so nce way and says "whats this about he wont sit with her?!" and I had to tell her how it wasnt fair to him because he winds up sitting alone!! which she didnt really seem to care about!

 

[LoveTink05]

It IS dumb and it IS all about money. "Excessive" absences do not necessarily equal failure in class. The assumption that a student is somehow going to fail because their rearend isn't warming a seat is incorrect. The assumption that a family does not value education b/c they choose to travel is incorrect.

I understand the need for attendance policies for parents who are deadbeats and do NOT value education, but if my children can succeed without being bored out of their minds staring out the classroom window, then so be it. Yet another reason to appreciate our charter e-school. Not only do they NOT CARE when I go on vacation, they actually reimburse our WDW tickets as an educational field trip expense.

Graygables,

Calm down, take a step back and look at my post! Quit "reading" things into my words. I am ONLY referring to the "dead beat" parents, dear. I also said that those excessive absenses might POSSIBLY lead to failure in a class. Obviously, this is a hot topic for you!

Super for you that you have learned to manipulate the "system" and get your WDW tickets paid for by the government.

 

[39CINDERELLA]

I
That said, if my children were assigned to a teacher who chose to take leave simply to go to Disney World during the school year, my kids would be pulled from those classes so fast it wouldn't be funny and a formal complaint would be filed withthe principal of the school and the school administration. In fact, I have done just that in the past and if it happens again, I'd do the same.

You think pulling your child from the class is any better than the teacher taking a few days off? How is that any better or different? The teacher is gone only days, you are pulling your child from their friends and stable class to put them with new kids and you think that does no harm!!!!!!!! You are doing more harm than the teacher who went on vacation.

 

[rt2dz]

I just thought I'd throw in my opinion/thoughts on this entire thread. There is no particular order of importance to my replies. I'm soooo sorry for the length of this post. I cut as much as I felt I could.

I'm sure some districts have stricter laws than the state laws. I'm in Texas which says you must be in attendance 80 days of the semester. That means if the semester is 82 days, you may miss 2 days that semster without having to justify your reasons (personal reasons qualifies as excused when written by parent); if there is 108 days that semester you could miss 28 days. Most semesters in our district are 88-93 days; it varies from semester to semester, year to year. If you don't like the public school policies, you do have other options: Charter schools (I'm interested in knowing the charter e-school one poster uses), private schools of all types, home schooling, even moving (not too viable for most people, but still an option).

Teachers are waaayyyyyy over worked and underpaid. I do not begrudge any teacher for taking some personal time. Kids need to learn to adapt, so I don't see the harm in a sub for a day or two, or even five. I know many teachers (no I do not teach nor does anyone in my family) who have to work during the summer just to make ends meet. Vacationing during all that "off" time isn't an option.

Most of a child's educational experience doesn't take place in the classroom. Study after study shows that the basics in life and learning take place between birth and age 6. Around here, about 50% of kids don't even start kindergarten until 6. Did you know the #1 thing to predict a boys rate of success in college is if their dad read to them at least 20 minutes a day from 6 months to age 4? So, I can't really see the harm of missing 3 days of a 40 minute biology class as a freshman. Life skills and experiences will take a child much farther in life than disecting a rat. Even if they are going to be a doctor, I'd feel much better about their experiences in medical school than in high school at 14, especially since the person teaching them doesn't have any extra ordinary skills. Doctors teach medical school.

Classes are over crowded in most public schools. Even good schools. With 30 kids in a class, there isn't a lot of one on one time and it causes the class to move fairly slowly. Teachers can't accomadate a fast learner when they have to make sure the slowest student is getting it. And slow and fast has nothing to do with overall intelligence and class placement. Certain concepts are just easier to pick up for some kids than others, and it can vary in subject to subject. For example, by 16 months DS#1 knew all his letter sounds (thanks to the ABC songs by Seasame Street I played as music in the car), but he still didn't recognize all his letters. The "harder" skill was much easier for him than the "easier" skill. Once he did learn all those letters at 3 1/2, reading came exteremly quickly (days). You couldn't stop him if you wanted to. Anyhow, my point is when you pull a child out and help them at home, essentially homeschooling them for the days they miss, they can spend a lot less time getting the concepts down.

And personally, I feel homework is just busy work 50% of the time. Yes, it is there to re-enforce concepts and to help those learn that haven't mastered a concept. But for those who have already "gotten it", it's just a waiste of time. That's why in college, you don't hand it in. And writing out a word 15 times, never did make me a better speller (as you can probably tell). Either I knew it by the first time, or I never did learn it. Don't get me wrong, if homework is assigned, homework is to be done. Just like a job. And when missing school, I think homework is important; that it does make up for the time lost in class. I also feel that when homework is given (and done) in advance it is a good thing. Then the teacher can grade it when grading all the other same papers, not adding to their work load.

My parents pulled us out for vacations all the time. In addition, we did miss when we were sick and my mother was never beyond taking us out just to spend a little time with us doing something purely fun. I graduated high school (a very competive school) with a 3.6. I discoverd in college I need to attended class OR do the homework. Some classes I did 50-50 (English classes for example), some classes I attended without fail (communication type courses), other classes I only showed up on test day (math!). I graduated college with a 3.8 gpa. Maybe it was missing all that school pre-college that set me up for success. Maybe it is just the way I'm wired. One of my sisters grades never were the greatest (C/D), but they pulled her out too. There never was a difference in her grades between semesters when she was in attendance every single day and when she missed. However, the individual assignments when she missed were usually better than when she attend. Food for thought.

While a lot of jobs are based on attendance, not every job is. Many jobs don't care about your "hourly" rate. You get paid to do a job. That may mean some 60 hour work weeks and other weeks were you you can get it done in 20 hours. Many, many jobs require that you can work on your own and not have to be "babysat". Another skill learned by not being forced to attend school without fail. How many people do you know that had their parents watch their every move through high school that went wild in college and didn't amount to much afterwards? We've all had the shock at our 20 year high school reunions where the successful kid didn't have a successful life. Kids need to learn to function outside the box.

OK, so as you gather from my exteremly long post (if you've even read it all), I'm not against pulling kids out of school. I don't think it hurts them. In many ways, I think it can be helpful. Their is no subsitute for life experience. Family time is of the utmost importance. Mandatory attendance is all about money. The government admits as much. And I don't see anything wrong with that either. I do believe that kids should attend school (both for the education and social value). School is very important. From the time my kids are born they are being encouraged (age appropriately) to go to graduate school and to do well. But when the school doesn't allow me to make the best choices for my kids, I look to my other options I first mentioned.

I just feel as though a different solution needs to be found to balance the needs and desires of both the parents and the schools. I'm a big supporter of year round school, when done right. But that is all a different post and this is long (too long) enough.

 

[mommykds]

Our policy here in NY does not allow any unexcused absences for vacation. The children are not given any work ahead of time & if they miss any tests, reports, or other assignments the child is given a "zero" which is figured into their grade average.

In 2003 I took my then 2nd grader out for 5 days. I wrote a letter to inform the school & that day I received a nasty & unprofessional call from the principal. My DH cannot get summer off so we chose early November with election day & veterans day so she wouldn't miss as much school as if it was a "regular" week. I was very disturbed by the call to say the least. (My dd is an honor student & graduated 2nd grade with all A's in spite of her being pulled from school for 5 days).

Well this October I took my now 4th grader & 1st grader out for 3 days to go to WDW. This time however I called my children out sick for the 3 days. Unfortunately I had to stoop to that level. I was going to write the note saying they would be out for 3 days but I had one to many mom's from my kids school tell that I must call the kids out sick or the kids would be penalized. Since it was my decision to go (not my kids) there was no way I was going to let them be punished or given a "zero" due to my choice.

Our school instituted this policy due to federal funding. They receive a per child amount per day. If the child is out the $ is not given to the school. Bottom line...If my kids continue to do well in school I will take them out for 3-5 days (no more).

 

[disneyjunkie]

Yes, I am a teacher also...but you are not going to like my response. In my opinion, it is very unprofessional for a teacher to take time off from work for a vacation. Especially for the reasons that you have previously stated. Now, someone mentioned having a spouse in the Army and the fact that they might not have any other time to take their vacation. To me, that is a different story.

I, personally, feel that I have quite enough time during the school year for vacations--Thanksgiving (1 Week), Christmas (2 WEEKS!), Easter, MLK, Spring Break, Labor Day). Maybe you don't have as many holidays as I do. (Let's don't even start about the President and HIS vacations!--I hope you were kidding)

I'm also a teacher and I have to say I agree with you 100%

 

[MrsPete]

It IS dumb and it IS all about money. "Excessive" absences do not necessarily equal failure in class.

Having taught high school for 14 years now, I must disagree. At the end of every grading period I put together some statistics about my current classes and share them with my students. I show them what percentage of my students earned an A, a B, a C, etc. Then I show them a graph that correlates grades and absences. ALWAYS there's a strong correlation: Students who earned As and Bs rarely miss more than 1-2 days per grading period; students who earn Ds and Fs almost always miss many days. (I also include a few other correlations that are not relevant to this conversation.) This exercise is an eye opener for some students; it doesn't change their behavior, but some of them are surprised by the statistics.

This doesn't mean that pulling a child out means he will fail the class, but in my experience, it always equals some loss of grade. This may or may not be an acceptable "price" for a family vacation at your preferred time.

However, money IS also a concern. But do you want your child's school to have LESS money? Do you want them to have fewer novel sets? few new items for the sports teams? less equipment for the science department? no new uniforms for the color guard? a smaller budget for the maintenance staff? When large numbers of people pull their children out, this is the reality.

 

[Cinderella94]

That's ridiculous. Do you know any teachers? Any teachers in the family? Please run that by them & see what they say. We are professionals & are allowed time off just like most any others. Yes, people going into the ministry know they will need to "work" Christmas & Easter, but teaching is 180 days & we are entitled to use our leave just like other professionals.

I wasn't going to respond to this at first, but that statement is ridiculous. Any other teachers out there?
Heck, even the President takes a vacation now & then.

AMEN TO THAT MOM!!! (daisyduck123 is actually my mother, in case you couldn't tell.) In most other professions besides teaching, you get Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, and other holidays off from work. Yet, in these professions, you are still allowed a certain other number of days which you can take leave from work. I bet at least half of you reading this right now, in the teaching profession or not, have used some of these days for vacations. People who say that teachers shouldn't be allowed to take days off for vacation have no right to single out and penalize teachers alone when people in other professions do this as well. By the way, my mom said she probably won't return to this thread because....she's too busy planning for tomorrow's lessons & then she will plan for our next DW trip (when she'll use her personal days)

 

[MrsPete]

As for teachers taking vacation during the school year, I think that's negligent.

Whether you agree or disagree with teachers taking leave during the year, this is the reality: It's an awful lot of work for a teacher to be out! Few teachers stay out voluntarily because it's just so hard to do.

Why? Well, when I teach a certain unit, I know exactly what I'm going to do. I have my overheads and my worksheets prepared (often from previous years), and I know my subject matter. To prepare to teach that unit, I just pull out my things, look them over to see if anything needs some improvement, sometimes I have a new idea to incorporate, I'll pull out the necessary books and materials . . . and I'm ready to start next week's lesson.

To prepare for SOMEONE ELSE to teach that lesson, I have to write out all my instructions, all that background material that's in my head, all my classroom rules, all those details about Suzi being allowed to go to the bathroom anytime and Johnny coming in late from lunch because he takes medicine every day. It takes me HOURS to prepare for one day's absence; it's insanely difficult to do it well so that the class doesn't suffer while I'm gone. Someone will say, "Just pop in a video" -- that doesn't fly with administration; in my school, they expect us to teach (and rightly so -- that is why they pay us). The result: most teachers don't stay out on purpose!

Personally, this is my 14th year teaching, and I have over 80 sick days "saved up", and that doesn't count my vacation days and personal leave. I come to school no matter how sick I may be; I just keep my distance from my students. I stay home only if my children are sick.

 

[staci]

I totally agree with you. I keep hearing people say 'its all about the money' as if that is a negative thing. While I think it is RIDICULOUS that funding is cut due to a small number of absenses, can we really blame the school that is trying to keep their funding so that the budget does not need to be cut to accomodate the loss of dollars? Most districts are on extremely tight budgets as it is, and I dont want my children to loose any of the things mentioned becuase of a stupid attendance rule. The schools are reacting to a stupid rule the best they can, trying to keep the funding coming in to benefit ALL of their students. Its not like the teachers are taking the extra cash and running to cancun or something The money is FOR the kids.

 

[cara loves the poly]

A responsible parent would never take a child out whom would struggle. I did take my first grade daughter out, she was the first grade rep. for student council - awesome student, she finished first grade just fine! If I thought for a second it would be a problem I would not do it. I guess you have to trust the parents sometimes! My husband's job only allows for him to take an entire week off in April. That is his slow time, it may not coincide w/ spring break.

 

[Missy1961]

I totally agree with you. I keep hearing people say 'its all about the money' as if that is a negative thing. While I think it is RIDICULOUS that funding is cut due to a small number of absenses, can we really blame the school that is trying to keep their funding so that the budget does not need to be cut to accomodate the loss of dollars? Most districts are on extremely tight budgets as it is, and I dont want my children to loose any of the things mentioned becuase of a stupid attendance rule. The schools are reacting to a stupid rule the best they can, trying to keep the funding coming in to benefit ALL of their students. Its not like the teachers are taking the extra cash and running to cancun or something The money is FOR the kids.

Great point! I agree with you 100%.