Gratuity on DDP

[Booknut]

That's the same as saying that none of us here have anything to do with that war in Iraq.

Folks who don't agree with their union should find other jobs.

Wow, do you really believe that?!

Some people don't have too much choice in that department, especially if they have a family to support. The luxury of agreeing with your Union is irrelevant if you need the job. How wonderful that you seem to have that luxury, sadly others do not. That doesn't mean they are not entitled to disagree with their Union's decision.

 

[bicker]

Wow, do you really believe that?!

Abso-friggen-lutely. There is a sickness of "not my fault" going around in this country. People need to take personal responsibility for the decisions they make, including the decision to align one's self with a union.

Some people don't have too much choice in that department, especially if they have a family to support.

Then that gets factored into the decision, and you take responsibility for the decision, including all the good and the bad ramifications.

The luxury of agreeing with your Union is irrelevant if you need the job. How wonderful that you seem to have that luxury, sadly others do not.

This isn't about luxury. It is about personal responsibility.

That doesn't mean they are not entitled to disagree with their Union's decision.

They can disagree all they want. They simply cannot exclude themselves from responsibility for the ramifications of the decision.

 

[Katiebell]

There is a huge difference between asking for something in negotiations that you want and conceding to something that you don't want because overall the entire package is better for everyone involved. Yes, both management and the union agreed to the final contract, but that doesn't mean that every single point in the contract is something that either side wanted or requested.

The comment was made that the union requested to have the automatic tip removed from the DDP because the waitstaff did not like to wait for their next paycheck for their tips and they wanted cash. From speaking to CM's during the negotiations, and reading what they wrote during the negotiations, this does not appear to be true, and is not something they wanted. It's not an issue of denying "culpability" or "responsibility".

 

[bicker]

Yes, both management and the union agreed to the final contract, but that doesn't mean that every single point in the contract is something that either side wanted or requested.

Absolutely, but both sides are equally responsible for the end-result. That's all I was saying.

 

[Tam1067]

Union negotiations are complicated matters, and because it's a negotiation, lots of things get agreed upon without anyone really liking them. I'm in a union, but I do not always agree with my union executive board. Heck, they don't even agree with each other most of the time! The servers union is even more diverse than my union, so it's easy to see how this issue could cause problems for the servers; non-servers in the union would have had a different agenda during negotiations.

I think it stinks that Disney's current system puts guests and servers in this awkward position. There should be a way for the guest to leave a tip without being watched by the server, and there should be a clear way for the guest to know how to pay the tip (which used to be included in the DDP remember) and how to fairly compensate the server--and since so many Disney guests are not from the U.S., the problem is even less clear.

It seems a bit odd that the bigwigs at Disney and the union couldn't find a better way to work it all out. I have a feeling they'll do something sometime in the future.

 

[sjaakie]

and since so many Disney guests are not from the U.S., the problem is even less clear.

In Europe tipping is a non issue.
Its seen as a free gift and not as an obligation.
I'm afraid that when waiters trying to push these guests into tipping they end up with nothing.

 

[Katiebell]

That's because in Europe and many other parts of the world servers are paid a fair living wage. I don't know what the hourly wage is for servers at WDW (if there is a CM who could verify here, that would be great), but the minimum wage for servers in Florida is 3.77/hour. Minimum wage for any other job in Florida is 6.79/hour (and it's almost impossible to survive on that minimum wage). So they really do rely on tips as their income.

Although it may come across as rude or pushy...I kind of understand why a server might nervously remind guests that the DDP no longer includes gratuity, or ask a guest how they wish to pay for their tip (especially if the guest doesn't typically carry cash, and may have assumed the tip was still included in the plan). It's awkward, clumsy, and uncomfortable all around, and I really don't know how to make it better. A particular percentage for a tip should never be assumed by a server, and a tip can certainly fluctuate based on how good the service was, but it's understood in America that diners pay a large part of the server's wages with the tip.

I plan to follow the advice others have suggested on this thread and if I am asked I will just tell the server that I am paying cash for the tip, and will figure out the exact amount when I am ready to leave. I will say that pleasantly, with a smile, and hopefully the CM will get the hint that if they do their job they aren't going to be slighted

 

[swift]

The minimum wage in the UK is equivalent to around $11 an hour for people aged 22 and above (less for younger workers), which helps to explain the different tipping philosophy between the UK and US. In the UK you are not paying part of the server's wages - you are paying extra for good service.

 

[sjaakie]

The minimum wage in the UK is equivalent to around $11 an hour for people aged 22 and above (less for younger workers), which helps to explain the different tipping philosophy between the UK and US. In the UK you are not paying part of the server's wages - you are paying extra for good service.

That’s exactly my point. In Holland waiters make also normal wages. Tipping is something a waiter gets just as an “bonus” and not as a part of his income.
I don’t think that many people outside the US are even aware of this “problem” and I doubt if they read the DIS.

Mostly the tip’s go into a "piggy bank" and once a year the staff uses the money to go out a day.

I think this problem will only get bigger. More and more “outside Americans” will visit the US.

I’m on several boards and try to tell that tipping is needed but mostly I get grumpy answers like : ”that’s not our problem or if the waiters accept slavery wages that’s there foult ”.


They never had to deal with this and you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.

Just for the record this is NOT our policy .

 

[Disney8704]

I just would like to point something out to all of you and this has actually happened. For those who have problems with their waiter and feel the need to talk to management, just remember something..you could end up getting that person fired.

2 nights ago DH and I went to Applebees. Our waitress was HORRIBLE. She came took our drink orders, brought out our drinks, and then disapeared for 20 minutes! She FINALLY came around and took our food order. And then it took another 45 minutes to get it. Well DH wasnt about to leave a tip at all without talking to management first about it. Well, he talked to management and came back to our table. About 10 minutes later, a completely different waitress came up to us to bring us our bill. While we were waiting for the slip to bring back to us, the waitress we had, had the nerve to swing by our table, looked at us, she was crying and had a furious look in her eyes, and she just snap. She started screaming at us telling us we just got her fired! While making a huge scene, the manager took her and told her to leave at once.

We never intended on getting her fired, but we did have horrible service and felt management should know. So be careful about deciding on talking to the management or not. You might get them fired. I would just be calm, and just either not leave a tip or a very small tip if need be.

 

[bicker]

You didn't get the server fired. The manager fired the server. You did what you were supposed to do.

 

[kaytieeldr]

And that server didn't get fired based on ONE customer's one-time discussion with her manager. That she happened to lose her job right after not serving you very well at all is likely coincidence. She much more likely had a history of problems, and your husband's discussion was just the final straw for the manager.

 

[Mackey Mouse]

I agree with Kaytie here, I am sure that was the final straw for her.....You do not fire on just one complaint if you did that, your restaurant might not have any servers. In the life of any server, there may have been one time that your serving was off or you could do nothing to please the patrons and you knew they would complain no what you did..

I am sorry, if he fired her, she should have been out the door and not over harrassing you at your table.. that is just not right..

 

[Disney8704]

Im not really sure, all I know is that when DH complained to the manager about our waitress, DH said he seemed a little shocked. All I know is that, we ended up getting our meal for free as an apology to how we were served and treated by the old waitress. So we ended up leaving a nice tip for the other waitress. The new waitress brought us dessert shooters (yummy!) which was also on the house (the manager insisited we get desert!) so we felt she deserved a tip for bringing us dessert. We would have gotten dessert anyway, but it was nice of managment to make everything on the house.

It would not surprise me if she did get fired after only maybe 1 or 2 complaints. The economy these days just plain blows! I heard on the news a few weeks back that just in January alone like 80,000 or something like that people lost their jobs. So it would not surprise me 1 bit.

 

[Illuminations_Rocks]

That's because in Europe and many other parts of the world servers are paid a fair living wage. I don't know what the hourly wage is for servers at WDW (if there is a CM who could verify here, that would be great), but the minimum wage for servers in Florida is 3.77/hour. Minimum wage for any other job in Florida is 6.79/hour (and it's almost impossible to survive on that minimum wage). So they really do rely on tips as their income.

Although it may come across as rude or pushy...I kind of understand why a server might nervously remind guests that the DDP no longer includes gratuity, or ask a guest how they wish to pay for their tip (especially if the guest doesn't typically carry cash, and may have assumed the tip was still included in the plan). It's awkward, clumsy, and uncomfortable all around, and I really don't know how to make it better. A particular percentage for a tip should never be assumed by a server, and a tip can certainly fluctuate based on how good the service was, but it's understood in America that diners pay a large part of the server's wages with the tip.

I plan to follow the advice others have suggested on this thread and if I am asked I will just tell the server that I am paying cash for the tip, and will figure out the exact amount when I am ready to leave. I will say that pleasantly, with a smile, and hopefully the CM will get the hint that if they do their job they aren't going to be slighted

I get that we are paying part of a server's wages with the tip.
I also get that some places servers don't make very much as meals proportionately do not cost as much, thereby giving them less in tip.

But... in Disney World, where restaurants are pretty much booked every single night these servers are not barely making ends meet. They are making well over minimum wage. Just one table will leave far more than minimum wage, without even having their regular "wages" calculated in. Waitstaff at WDW is well paid once you include the tips for the job requirements and skills, especially compared to other departments like ride ops or retail workers.

I think that some waitstaff got used to not caring since they had 18% of a nice bill included in their paycheck (I do understand they don't get the full 18%, that they must usually share tips with others). Now, they're just not getting it because some people are cheap and some people just don't get the American tipping system.... so they're paranoid and want their money.

It is incredibly rude for someone to stand over you and demand a tip. I will not feel comfortable in this case; it is pressuring you to leave more than you may have, IMHO, as you will be "assessed" by the waiter. Rude, rude, rude.

I'm not saying that waitstaff have an especially high-paying job. But, with the way we Americans tip, and the fact that WDW food is not cheap... well, they're not doing that badly.

BTW, I am a fan of the European way where they have a higher wage and we aren't required to leave a tip. Makes for happier people overall.

 

[Illuminations_Rocks]

While we were waiting for the slip to bring back to us, the waitress we had, had the nerve to swing by our table, looked at us, she was crying and had a furious look in her eyes, and she just snap. She started screaming at us telling us we just got her fired! While making a huge scene, the manager took her and told her to leave at once.

We never intended on getting her fired, but we did have horrible service and felt management should know. So be careful about deciding on talking to the management or not. You might get them fired. I would just be calm, and just either not leave a tip or a very small tip if need be.

You didn't get her fired.

If she has the audacity to come back to a customer whom she was supposed to be giving good service to (as she works in a service industry) and yell at them for complaining... Well, there's things wrong with her that should prevent her from serving others in her previously held capacity. She was not made for being a waitress, at least not at a popular place like Applebee's.

Sorry you had to experience that!

 

[bicker]

Without commenting on the actual point you're trying to make, I did want to highlight just one thing that you said that really doesn't matter....

But... in Disney World, where restaurants are pretty much booked every single night

This affects the servers very little. The more business the restaurant does, the more work they have to do; or the more servers there are, dividing up the work and dividing up the money.

 

[kaytieeldr]

They are making well over minimum wage. Just one table will leave far more than minimum wage, without even having their regular "wages" calculated in

Given that their regular "wages" are less than $4 an hour (i.e. more than 50% below MINIMUM wage), tips are a necessity just to exist.

Just for example, say a server could find a decent apartment for $500 a month. At the $3.65 starting "wage" at Disney, that person would have to work 136 hours a month JUST to pay rent - and that's with NO taxes deducted. One hundred thirty six hours. Imagine that. More than three weeks of work each month just for rent - never mind that the $500 apartment is a figment of my imagination. Then there's food, probably utilities, transportation...

I've said it before. It's not my business how much anybody not employed by me earns. If a server can average $25 or $50 an hour (highly unlikely), good for them.

 

[Katiebell]

Given that their regular "wages" are less than $4 an hour (i.e. more than 50% below MINIMUM wage), tips are a necessity just to exist.

Just for example, say a server could find a decent apartment for $500 a month. At the $3.65 starting "wage" at Disney, that person would have to work 136 hours a month JUST to pay rent - and that's with NO taxes deducted. One hundred thirty six hours. Imagine that. More than three weeks of work each month just for rent - never mind that the $500 apartment is a figment of my imagination. Then there's food, probably utilities, transportation...

I've said it before. It's not my business how much anybody not employed by me earns. If a server can average $25 or $50 an hour (highly unlikely), good for them.

Excellent points Bottom line -- the tipping system, whether we like it or not, exists here in the US. Servers are paid less than a living wage with the idea that they will make their income primarily from tips. Tips are not mandatory or required by law, but they are customary and expected. There is nothing to stop patron from tipping generously for excellent service, or tipping poorly or not at all for bad service.

And there is nothing to stop a patron from stiffing a server and tipping little or nothing even for excellent service.

People don't seem to like the idea of an automatic gratuity added on to a bill, but in countries where tips are not the custom, the meal simply costs more. Is there really any difference between a 18% gratuity automatically charged, or a meal costing 18% more?

 

[themudd4]

OK, well first things first...I do tip and usually tip pretty well. I have been a waitress before and I do know what it is like having to work for your tips. I know first hand that tips are not a promise...but a bonus. That being said...I personally think it is CRAZY to tip based on a precentage. I have used this before on the disboards...here is my example...
The waitress at cracker barrell bust her butt and keeps our glasses full, brings everything out quickly, talks and plays with my kids and just over all does a GREAT job. If I tip by using 18% of the total bill my waitress is going to recieve a smaller tip then the waitress at say California Grill who left our glasses empty, was slow, rude, and could have cared less we were there and would have preferred our kids werent there at all...BUT becasue the total bill was higher she should get a higher tip...i just dont get it!!!
But that being said I have never had bad service at California Grill...i have never been there...just pulled a place out of the air.

Now about the waitstaff asking for tips...I think it is rude to flat out ask for tips...and would prob take away from what I would leave...but, I dont think I would be offended if they reminded me that the tip was no longer included on the DDP.
regardless of who's bright idea it was to remove the tip from the DDP I think it was a poor move for the waitstaff as well as the guests. I assume the CM's have suffered somewhat of a paycut as many ppl do not will not tip what they use to get. Guest are paying a whole dollar or so less then before...lol...I would gladly pay the extra $1 and let Disney pay that tip.