Fastpass return or replacement?

DAS should require a doctors note. Doesn't have to list a specific diagnosis, could just say "In my opinion xxxx is unable to wait in lines and would benefit from an accomodation." The way it is set up right now, anyone who doesn't feel like waiting in line can get DAS. In fact seeing all the able bodied people using DAS (very obvious now that fastpass is not available) this last trip I may do it on my next trip. I get that it doesn't get them to the front of the line, but not having to wait on lines and get a ride reservation is a huge benefit; or even better they can get a reservation for a ride with a long wait and then go on a bunch of rides with shorter waits. Another option would be that the guest with DAS plus one other person is entitled to join their party at the front of the line after the rest of the party waits on line.
Thanks for demonstrating that you have zero clue on how DAS works. Or really how anything is working right now.
 
Please. I really don't want to see another FastPass thread closed because a discussion has gone off the rails.

So, let's get back to why Disney has done nothing to either reinstate FP+ or roll out their new and improved ride reservation system.

If I had to make a guess, I'd say that the new system just isn't ready for prime time but the execs are hopeful that they can roll it out before October 1. This could be in spite of warnings from their IT people that it could take another 3 months before the bugs are all worked out. Someone high up has fixated on bringing this new system to fruition and they're willing to burn the house down waiting it out.

The closer we get to 10/01, the less likely it is that we will see a return of FP+. At first, I was hopeful that it would get a temporary roll out with only same-day availability if you have a park reservation. But now, I get the feeling that even that kind of limited FP+ system is not worth the effort it will take to do. The pandemic has given Disney an opportunity to pivot on FP+ and it may just be too late to turn the ship again.

So what will we see when this new system emerges? My guess is that it will be a hybrid of free and paid line-skipping passes, with some headliners only being available under the paid version. I don't think the virtual line system will work at WDW. Just looking at the number of guests waiting for their ROTR boarding pass to be called can give you a glimpse of what it could look like if every attraction had a virtual queue. If you've ever been behind a group trying to enter the FP queue early, you know how just one group can gum up the works. Multiply that by every attraction, every day at every park.
 
RIderswap is 1 or 2 people at a time, it is pretty easy to tell who is very likely not VIP/Golden Oak/Club 33. I do know what is going on, and with the fastpass gone it is very visible how many people are using DAS.
Rider Swap is not 1 or 2 people at a time. I think it’s up to 3 people right now, maybe 4 (3 + child)? Someone correct me if I’m wrong about that.
 
Please. I really don't want to see another FastPass thread closed because a discussion has gone off the rails.

So, let's get back to why Disney has done nothing to either reinstate FP+ or roll out their new and improved ride reservation system.

If I had to make a guess, I'd say that the new system just isn't ready for prime time but the execs are hopeful that they can roll it out before October 1. This could be in spite of warnings from their IT people that it could take another 3 months before the bugs are all worked out. Someone high up has fixated on bringing this new system to fruition and they're willing to burn the house down waiting it out.

The closer we get to 10/01, the less likely it is that we will see a return of FP+. At first, I was hopeful that it would get a temporary roll out with only same-day availability if you have a park reservation. But now, I get the feeling that even that kind of limited FP+ system is not worth the effort it will take to do. The pandemic has given Disney an opportunity to pivot on FP+ and it may just be too late to turn the ship again.

So what will we see when this new system emerges? My guess is that it will be a hybrid of free and paid line-skipping passes, with some headliners only being available under the paid version. I don't think the virtual line system will work at WDW. Just looking at the number of guests waiting for their ROTR boarding pass to be called can give you a glimpse of what it could look like if every attraction had a virtual queue. If you've ever been behind a group trying to enter the FP queue early, you know how just one group can gum up the works. Multiply that by every attraction, every day at every park.
I've given up trying to predict if or when and I'm not waiting for it anymore. I'm hoping that crowds will go down before I arrive on September 1st and I'll be rope dropping and just having lower expectations overall. I've decided we will still have a good time but will need to be selective about the rides we end up riding.
 
Rider Swap is not 1 or 2 people at a time. I think it’s up to 3 people right now, maybe 4 (3 + child)? Someone correct me if I’m wrong about that.
Changes were made recently…….

Beginning July 16, Disney World will only allow one other Guest on the attraction with the person who sat out. That means now only TWO Guests can ride, not three. This change applies to ALL Disney World attractions.
 
Please. I really don't want to see another FastPass thread closed because a discussion has gone off the rails.

Thank you! Respectfully, I can appreciate the discussion on DAS but let’s take it to a DAS thread if you would like to continue the debate. This thread is intended to be a FP discussion and, so far, has been a good one.
 
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Please. I really don't want to see another FastPass thread closed because a discussion has gone off the rails.

So, let's get back to why Disney has done nothing to either reinstate FP+ or roll out their new and improved ride reservation system.

They are ironing out the kinks in Paris, if that system is the future likely they are collecting data on the dynamic pricing to maximize revenue and keep the standby lines reasonable. They will have too many unsatisfied guests if they price the fast passes too low and the standby lines get out of control. If they mess up in Orlando there will be mass chaos because of the sheer numbers. It is obvious from Paris that the ride reservations system didn't work as it just led to overcrowding in the rest of the park.
 
I greatly appreciate all the great FP discussion. It is obvious that this topic is somewhat polarizing based on your park touring style.

I’m sure you could add more, but I’m going to classify WDW guests into these groups:

1. Uber planners - people who have ADRs booked at 180-days, have FP booked at 60-days, have at least a general plan for their park day, are able to get multiple FPs after their 3 are used.

2. Moderate Planners - people who booked their ADRs and FP in advance, but don’t necessarily like to be refreshing MDE in their phones all day trying to get more FP. Although they do it at least somewhat.

3. Anti-planners - even though these people have ADRs and FP, they like ultimate flexibility with their schedules and do not like having to plan things so far ahead (even though many of them do because they feel forced to). These people wish you could just change your mind and do whatever you feel like throughout the day and hate that Disney forces them to be more structured than they would like.

4. Newbies and the Uniformed - these are the poor inglorious souls who show up at MK and think they can just walk into Cinderella’s Royal Table fir dinner without a reservation and / or who ask the CM at the entrance at 7DMT how they can get a FP when they see the standby line is 150 minutes and people with FP are scanning their magic bands and walking past the standby queue.

Like i said, you could create more categories but I will go with this list for now. The current state of FP (or lack there of) is a blessing for Group 4 (Newbies & Uninformed). It puts them the closest to an even playing field they will ever get without having to do their homework. They probably will have no idea this is helping them, but perhaps most of them have a better overall park experience.

It sounds like we have some Group 3s in this thread and I understand their point of view. However, I would argue that while these folks might like park touring better without FP, they weren’t harmed as much compared to Group 4 back when FP was active. I would even argue this group was able to get the best of both worlds…they enjoyed FP when they had it but they could also opt to be spontaneous and not feel obliged to over engineer a plan. Of course, I understand if this group felt compelled to get the most out of FP so they could avoid long waits and that maximizing the FP system wasn’t their idea of a vacation.

But for those that fall into Group 1 (and admittedly that’s me), the lack of FP makes going to the park borderline unbearable. I will see how my family does this upcoming trip (Mid-August), but we are scared to death. We are usually the type that are in the parks from open to close each day. We do a ton of table service dining and shopping around our fast passes. We do not do a standby wait if it’s more than 25 minutes - ever. So we either have a FP or are spending money elsewhere. We do dessert parties, fireworks cruises, add-ons galore. We are prepping ourselves to only ride 3 - 4 rides per day because we will not wait in those lines. We will end up back at the pool most days and may go offsite for dinner.

I would guess that a lot of people on these boards fall into Group 1. This group is the most negatively impacted by the lack of FP. It has completely upended the way this group tours. And even amongst this group their is a divide. I would be happy to pay for FP right now because I’m so terrified of going to the park without it. My wife on the other hand, wants to sell our DVC if Disney rolls out a paid only FP system for WDW.

So it’s clear that the lack of FP is helping some but really destroyed WDW for others. I hope the powers that can be can find a balance with the new FP system that gives the planners the ability to plan somewhat but gives the non-planners more opportunity to be spontaneous. But whatever it is - please, please bring back some form of FP back as soon as possible!!!!!
 
I greatly appreciate all the great FP discussion. It is obvious that this topic is somewhat polarizing based on your park touring style.

I’m sure you could add more, but I’m going to classify WDW guests into these groups:

1. Uber planners - people who have ADRs booked at 180-days, have FP booked at 60-days, have at least a general plan for their park day, are able to get multiple FPs after their 3 are used.

2. Moderate Planners - people who booked their ADRs and FP in advance, but don’t necessarily like to be refreshing MDE in their phones all day trying to get more FP. Although they do it at least somewhat.

3. Anti-planners - even though these people have ADRs and FP, they like ultimate flexibility with their schedules and do not like having to plan things so far ahead (even though many of them do because they feel forced to). These people wish you could just change your mind and do whatever you feel like throughout the day and hate that Disney forces them to be more structured than they would like.

4. Newbies and the Uniformed - these are the poor inglorious souls who show up at MK and think they can just walk into Cinderella’s Royal Table fir dinner without a reservation and / or who ask the CM at the entrance at 7DMT how they can get a FP when they see the standby line is 150 minutes and people with FP are scanning their magic bands and walking past the standby queue.

Like i said, you could create more categories but I will go with this list for now. The current state of FP (or lack there of) is a blessing for Group 4 (Newbies & Uninformed). It puts them the closest to an even playing field they will ever get without having to do their homework. They probably will have no idea this is helping them, but perhaps most of them have a better overall park experience.

It sounds like we have some Group 3s in this thread and I understand their point of view. However, I would argue that while these folks might like park touring better without FP, they weren’t harmed as much compared to Group 4 back when FP was active. I would even argue this group was able to get the best of both worlds…they enjoyed FP when they had it but they could also opt to be spontaneous and not feel obliged to over engineer a plan. Of course, I understand if this group felt compelled to get the most out of FP so they could avoid long waits and that maximizing the FP system wasn’t their idea of a vacation.

But for those that fall into Group 1 (and admittedly that’s me), the lack of FP makes going to the park borderline unbearable. I will see how my family does this upcoming trip (Mid-August), but we are scared to death. We are usually the type that are in the parks from open to close each day. We do a ton of table service dining and shopping around our fast passes. We do not do a standby wait if it’s more than 25 minutes - ever. So we either have a FP or are spending money elsewhere. We do dessert parties, fireworks cruises, add-ons galore. We are prepping ourselves to only ride 3 - 4 rides per day because we will not wait in those lines. We will end up back at the pool most days and may go offsite for dinner.

I would guess that a lot of people on these boards fall into Group 1. This group is the most negatively impacted by the lack of FP. It has completely upended the way this group tours. And even amongst this group their is a divide. I would be happy to pay for FP right now because I’m so terrified of going to the park without it. My wife on the other hand, wants to sell our DVC if Disney rolls out a paid only FP system for WDW.

So it’s clear that the lack of FP is helping some but really destroyed WDW for others. I hope the powers that can be can find a balance with the new FP system that gives the planners the ability to plan somewhat but gives the non-planners more opportunity to be spontaneous. But whatever it is - please, please bring back some form of FP back as soon as possible!!!!!
I am avidly group 1, like to the point where I've gotten over 15 FPs in one day on multiple occasions. Absolutely love everything about planning and plan every detail that I can for every single vacation I take (not just WDW). And I'm pretty indifferent. Would I prefer to have FPs? Sure. But I have had several really great trips, including a last-minute one last weekend, without them.

And I've taken a few last minute trips with FPs before too. Still planned like crazy in those few days and had no problem getting the FPs that we wanted. So that doesn't play a role in my opinion either.
 
@DJjimmy. I was just there, the parks were as busy as I have ever seen and honestly it was not too bad. Hit the ride with the longest lines (7DMT, Avatar, Slinky Dog) at rope drop then do the other rides and of course get on the virtual queue for Rise of the Resistance at exactly 0700. If you stay in the parks all day, you will get to do everything you want. Yes fast passes have spoiled most of us and Disney is trying to recalibrate expectations (We used to do the 90 planning on most trips as well), but it honestly felt more like a vacation and less stressful just going to the park and doing the rides we could without being preoccupied with trying to get fastpasses and constantly refreshing the app to try to get a fastpass on a ride that was booked etc. Paid fast passes will be a huge win for people like you and I who don't mind spending some money to enjoy their vacation; it will allow you to go the the park and take a break, have a drink or a meal on your own terms rather than based on what fast passes were available 90 days out.

Your summary is spot on. Disney's goal is to make more money and they make the most money off of vacationers who stay in the resorts not AP holders who visit the parks constantly. You can read Disney's investor presentations and see that their interest is to monetize these parks and funnel the money into content for Disney+. They are looking at everything and you will see much more restrictions on annual passes such as the 3 park reservation limit unless staying in an resort, and the upcoming fastpass changes are part of this. I watch DIS investor presentations very carefully as It is one of my largest investment positions.
 
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I greatly appreciate all the great FP discussion. It is obvious that this topic is somewhat polarizing based on your park touring style.

I’m sure you could add more, but I’m going to classify WDW guests into these groups:

1. Uber planners - people who have ADRs booked at 180-days, have FP booked at 60-days, have at least a general plan for their park day, are able to get multiple FPs after their 3 are used.

2. Moderate Planners - people who booked their ADRs and FP in advance, but don’t necessarily like to be refreshing MDE in their phones all day trying to get more FP. Although they do it at least somewhat.

3. Anti-planners - even though these people have ADRs and FP, they like ultimate flexibility with their schedules and do not like having to plan things so far ahead (even though many of them do because they feel forced to). These people wish you could just change your mind and do whatever you feel like throughout the day and hate that Disney forces them to be more structured than they would like.

4. Newbies and the Uniformed - these are the poor inglorious souls who show up at MK and think they can just walk into Cinderella’s Royal Table fir dinner without a reservation and / or who ask the CM at the entrance at 7DMT how they can get a FP when they see the standby line is 150 minutes and people with FP are scanning their magic bands and walking past the standby queue.

Like i said, you could create more categories but I will go with this list for now. The current state of FP (or lack there of) is a blessing for Group 4 (Newbies & Uninformed). It puts them the closest to an even playing field they will ever get without having to do their homework. They probably will have no idea this is helping them, but perhaps most of them have a better overall park experience.

It sounds like we have some Group 3s in this thread and I understand their point of view. However, I would argue that while these folks might like park touring better without FP, they weren’t harmed as much compared to Group 4 back when FP was active. I would even argue this group was able to get the best of both worlds…they enjoyed FP when they had it but they could also opt to be spontaneous and not feel obliged to over engineer a plan. Of course, I understand if this group felt compelled to get the most out of FP so they could avoid long waits and that maximizing the FP system wasn’t their idea of a vacation.

But for those that fall into Group 1 (and admittedly that’s me), the lack of FP makes going to the park borderline unbearable. I will see how my family does this upcoming trip (Mid-August), but we are scared to death. We are usually the type that are in the parks from open to close each day. We do a ton of table service dining and shopping around our fast passes. We do not do a standby wait if it’s more than 25 minutes - ever. So we either have a FP or are spending money elsewhere. We do dessert parties, fireworks cruises, add-ons galore. We are prepping ourselves to only ride 3 - 4 rides per day because we will not wait in those lines. We will end up back at the pool most days and may go offsite for dinner.

I would guess that a lot of people on these boards fall into Group 1. This group is the most negatively impacted by the lack of FP. It has completely upended the way this group tours. And even amongst this group their is a divide. I would be happy to pay for FP right now because I’m so terrified of going to the park without it. My wife on the other hand, wants to sell our DVC if Disney rolls out a paid only FP system for WDW.

So it’s clear that the lack of FP is helping some but really destroyed WDW for others. I hope the powers that can be can find a balance with the new FP system that gives the planners the ability to plan somewhat but gives the non-planners more opportunity to be spontaneous. But whatever it is - please, please bring back some form of FP back as soon as possible!!!!!
This is the best summary of attitudes I have seen so far in either of the fastpass rumor threads. I have long said that those who fall in your Group 4 were being set up for a bad trip and I completely understand why Disney is trying to make it better for them (and I appreciate you not just calling them ignorant or lazy as some posters have done). And, I can also understand why Groups 1 and 2 are very annoyed over the current status.
I think it's important to remember that no system will ever be static. I'm willing to bet that whatever Disney comes up with, Group 1'ers will find a way to adapt and plan the living daylights out of their vacation. I just am personally glad that it sounds like that won't be as much of a requirement as it maybe was before in order to have a decent time.
I personally fall into the category of people who would like a moderately-priced fastpass option. Obviously my first choice would be a hybrid system that would let me get a certain number free and then buy more if wanted/needed. From what Remy posted while he was still here, I am optimistic about the future of fastpass.
We are going in 32 days and I haven't totally given up hope, but my husband and I have also sat down and made a contingency plan for if lines are at their current levels (lots of resort time and only going into the parks for dining experiences and walking around early morning and late evening).
 
I greatly appreciate all the great FP discussion. It is obvious that this topic is somewhat polarizing based on your park touring style.

I’m sure you could add more, but I’m going to classify WDW guests into these groups:

1. Uber planners - people who have ADRs booked at 180-days, have FP booked at 60-days, have at least a general plan for their park day, are able to get multiple FPs after their 3 are used.

2. Moderate Planners - people who booked their ADRs and FP in advance, but don’t necessarily like to be refreshing MDE in their phones all day trying to get more FP. Although they do it at least somewhat.

3. Anti-planners - even though these people have ADRs and FP, they like ultimate flexibility with their schedules and do not like having to plan things so far ahead (even though many of them do because they feel forced to). These people wish you could just change your mind and do whatever you feel like throughout the day and hate that Disney forces them to be more structured than they would like.

4. Newbies and the Uniformed - these are the poor inglorious souls who show up at MK and think they can just walk into Cinderella’s Royal Table fir dinner without a reservation and / or who ask the CM at the entrance at 7DMT how they can get a FP when they see the standby line is 150 minutes and people with FP are scanning their magic bands and walking past the standby queue.

Like i said, you could create more categories but I will go with this list for now. The current state of FP (or lack there of) is a blessing for Group 4 (Newbies & Uninformed). It puts them the closest to an even playing field they will ever get without having to do their homework. They probably will have no idea this is helping them, but perhaps most of them have a better overall park experience.

It sounds like we have some Group 3s in this thread and I understand their point of view. However, I would argue that while these folks might like park touring better without FP, they weren’t harmed as much compared to Group 4 back when FP was active. I would even argue this group was able to get the best of both worlds…they enjoyed FP when they had it but they could also opt to be spontaneous and not feel obliged to over engineer a plan. Of course, I understand if this group felt compelled to get the most out of FP so they could avoid long waits and that maximizing the FP system wasn’t their idea of a vacation.

But for those that fall into Group 1 (and admittedly that’s me), the lack of FP makes going to the park borderline unbearable. I will see how my family does this upcoming trip (Mid-August), but we are scared to death. We are usually the type that are in the parks from open to close each day. We do a ton of table service dining and shopping around our fast passes. We do not do a standby wait if it’s more than 25 minutes - ever. So we either have a FP or are spending money elsewhere. We do dessert parties, fireworks cruises, add-ons galore. We are prepping ourselves to only ride 3 - 4 rides per day because we will not wait in those lines. We will end up back at the pool most days and may go offsite for dinner.

I would guess that a lot of people on these boards fall into Group 1. This group is the most negatively impacted by the lack of FP. It has completely upended the way this group tours. And even amongst this group their is a divide. I would be happy to pay for FP right now because I’m so terrified of going to the park without it. My wife on the other hand, wants to sell our DVC if Disney rolls out a paid only FP system for WDW.

So it’s clear that the lack of FP is helping some but really destroyed WDW for others. I hope the powers that can be can find a balance with the new FP system that gives the planners the ability to plan somewhat but gives the non-planners more opportunity to be spontaneous. But whatever it is - please, please bring back some form of FP back as soon as possible!!!!!
I am definitely group one but it isn't even the lack of fastpasses that bothers me right now it's the experience. Even when I'm not in a line I'm affected by the lines that are literally everywhere. At least when there was fastpasses the lines stayed mostly in the queues and now the parks are just a sea of people standing in lines that extend into areas they never did before. It is awful to look at and even worse to try to navigate around.
 
I am definitely group one but it isn't even the lack of fastpasses that bothers me right now it's the experience. Even when I'm not in a line I'm affected by the lines that are literally everywhere. At least when there was fastpasses the lines stayed mostly in the queues and now the parks are just a sea of people standing in lines that extend into areas they never did before. It is awful to look at and even worse to try to navigate around.

This is twofold. A lot of people at this point are used to maintaining more distance between themselves and others, so I observed many people keeping 3-4 feet between themselves and the person in front of them while before people would be packed much closer. Also if they do eliminate fastpass as we know it they will have to reconfigure the internal queues to accomodate more standby riders.
 
This is twofold. A lot of people at this point are used to maintaining more distance between themselves and others, so I observed many people keeping 3-4 feet between themselves and the person in front of them while before people would be packed much closer. Also if they do eliminate fastpass as we know it they will have to reconfigure the internal queues to accomodate more standby riders.
I'm really hoping they find a way to incorporate some sort of distancing with whatever new system they are going with. I hate being packed in with people (even before Covid). I don't really mind waiting in a line if there is space to breathe, but as soon as it gets crowded I get cranky. But, I also fully recognize the fact that there aren't enough other things to do in the parks to eat up all those people - Disney needs people standing in lines (I mean, maybe not to the current extent, but definitely to some degree).
 
Yeah they definitely need people in the lines. They also have noticeably less workers in the food kiosks, this could be cost cutting or difficulty finding workers, lines at these places were longer than I have ever experienced. The on app ordering for food and only allowing people who actually bought food to sit in the quick service restaurants was a great move and made it much easier to find seats in those areas
 
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I am avidly group 1, like to the point where I've gotten over 15 FPs in one day on multiple occasions. Absolutely love everything about planning and plan every detail that I can for every single vacation I take (not just WDW). And I'm pretty indifferent. Would I prefer to have FPs? Sure. But I have had several really great trips, including a last-minute one last weekend, without them.

And I've taken a few last minute trips with FPs before too. Still planned like crazy in those few days and had no problem getting the FPs that we wanted. So that doesn't play a role in my opinion either.
I understand. For me…planning is a big part of the fun. Honestly, the planning and the anticipation is sometimes just as enjoyable than the actual trip. That may sound crazy to some people, but if you are a planner - you know what I am talking about.
 
I understand. For me…planning is a big part of the fun. Honestly, the planning and the anticipation is sometimes just as enjoyable than the actual trip. That may sound crazy to some people, but if you are a planner - you know what I am talking about.
100% agree. Planning is so much fun. And it helps make the trip go smoother and be more enjoyable.
 
I was just there, the parks were as busy as I have ever seen and honestly it was not too bad. Hit the ride with the longest lines (7DMT, Avatar, Slinky Dog) at rope drop then do the other rides and of course get on the virtual queue for Rise of the Resistance at exactly 0700. If you stay in the parks all day, you will get to do everything you want. Yes fast passes have spoiled most of us and Disney is trying to recalibrate expectations (We used to do the 90 planning on most trips as well), but it honestly felt more like a vacation and less stressful just going to the park and doing the rides we could without being preoccupied with trying to get fastpasses and constantly refreshing the app to try to get a fastpass on a ride that was booked etc.

thanks - you’ve definitely made me feel a little better about our upcoming trip. We will be doing rope drops and will try to get as much done as possible early on. If the combo of long lines and the heat are too much for my family, we will leave the parks in the afternoon. We have totally reset our expectations for this trip. What is frustrating is that we wouldn’t have planned this trip this way had we ever imagined no FP. But we will do our best to adjust and if it’s terrible, we will not go back. If it is better than our expectations than that’s a good thing.


I watch DIS investor presentations very carefully as It is one of my largest investment positions.

same here. I am a big believer in investing where I spend my money. DIS is my 2nd largest position and from a stock holder’s perspective, I can’t argue with what they are doing. As a pure Disney fan, though, it’s upsetting.
 
Yeah they definitely need people in the lines. They also have noticeably less workers in the food kiosks, this could be cost cutting or difficulty finding workers, lines at these places were longer than I have ever experienced. The on app ordering for food and only allowing people who actually bought food to sit in the quick service restaurants was a great move and made it much easier to find seats in those areas
This is part of my frustration. I know the complexities of the pandemic have been impossible to anticipate and deal with. But I feel right now, today, Disney increased park capacity pre-maturely knowing they did not have the staff to support these crowds. Lines for a churro should not be so long.
 
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