DVC must stop rentals.....

[Maistre Gracey]

At one point in history I used to blame the rentals… then it dawned on me..

If the people doing the renting didn’t own the points to book those rooms, someone else would. It’s a wash. I just do not see how rentals are a factor.

I do suppose someone can book 10 different villas for Christmas week instead of them being sprinkled around the calendar, but not sure that’s what we are talking about.

 

[xdan0920]

Instead of pointing fingers about who was entitled or who was condescending we could probably just all learn to agree that stopping rentals won't solve anything and there's a lot of factors at play in this.

Eh, you don’t think availability would increase if rentals were halted?

Bc I am looking at the rental section of this forum, and man, that looks a lot diff then 5 years ago.

Or just do a quick Google search for DVC rentals and see what that returns.

 

[gregskellington]

Eh, you don’t think availability would increase if rentals were halted?

Bc I am looking at the rental section of this forum, and man, that looks a lot diff then 5 years ago.

Or just do a quick Google search for DVC rentals and see what that returns.

Of course I don't. The things your pointing to as evidence don't say anything about anything other than renting has gotten more mainstream.

 

[xdan0920]

Of course I don't. The things your pointing to as evidence don't say anything about anything other than renting has gotten more mainstream.

Ok

 

[CaptainAmerica]

At one point in history I used to blame the rentals… then it dawned on me..

If the people doing the renting didn’t own the points to book those rooms, someone else would. It’s a wash. I just do not see how rentals are a factor.

I do suppose someone can book 10 different villas for Christmas week instead of them being sprinkled around the calendar, but not sure that’s what we are talking about.

It's a wash in total volume but it pushes the use pattern even more towards studios than it already is. Owners who rent are trying to maximize dollar-of-rack-rate-per-point, because their marketing is all based on how much renting "saves" versus booking a normal unit with Disney. Rack-rate-per-point maximizes in studios and it's not close. I think my recent math said Beach Club rack rates averaged $32 per point over a full year, but the split was $32 for two bedrooms, $40 for studios, and like $22 for one bedrooms.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

I actually wanted to switch from BCV to SSR at 7 months in early December. Not happening as even SSR doesn't have the entire week available, early December is always difficult for studios. That can't be all about renting. anyhow, renting is just owners using their points that they would have to let expire otherwise. How much of SSR goes for cash anyway? they are always moving people there to get them out of oversold resorts (but they don't put them in studios)

As a owner who always books studios, since the 2010s it's been for early December, race weeks and yes, Jersey Week, book at 11 months so you will have something and hope you can change to the resort you really want. Don't wait for 7 months or you'll have to waitlist. Been doing that for quite awhile

 

[Brian Noble]

At one point in history I used to blame the rentals… then it dawned on me..

If the people doing the renting didn’t own the points to book those rooms, someone else would. It’s a wash. I just do not see how rentals are a factor.

I do suppose someone can book 10 different villas for Christmas week instead of them being sprinkled around the calendar, but not sure that’s what we are talking about.

Interestingly, I am exactly the opposite. I used to be in the "points are points and owners are owners and it doesn't matter" camp, but I am slowly convincing myself that the existence of a low-barrier market to rent speculative reservations has at least the possibility of changing booking patterns enough to matter.

Does it? Probably not, because owners are owners and points are points. But, maybe. Think about how walking has changed over the past few years. Because walking exists, and people talk about it, more people do it, and that makes more rooms/room categories harder to book, which encourages more owners to walk, and so on.,

 

[Sandisw]

Eh, you don’t think availability would increase if rentals were halted?

Bc I am looking at the rental section of this forum, and man, that looks a lot diff then 5 years ago.

Or just do a quick Google search for DVC rentals and see what that returns.

In some weeks, maybe, but all around? Not to any degree that it would matter as I would venture to guess that the majority of owners probably do book between 7 and 11 months. I personally book a lot of reservations at 11 months...some I may use and some I may not because I never know who might come. Most often, my family/friends don't confirm until about 2 to 3 months out.

Right now, I am holding several rooms for the second week of December for the same dates. None will become rentals, but I won't be releasing any of the rooms until September at the earliest.

I think the point is that the majority of people book points to use for themselves/family/friends than those that rent. Even with the number of R/T offers here or elsewhere, its still a very small % of overall owners or total points in the system.

It is also like they week you want to go doesn't have plenty of options to book. They may not be at the resort you want, or the room size you want, but even 6 months out, a trip can be booked so obviously, any renting hasn't shut out everybody.

ETA: It hasn't been mentioned, but renting...not commercial...is expressly allowed in the POS so it can't be changed without that. It would be considered a material change to the product which most likely, would require a vote from all owners.

 

[OKW Lover]

I don't think rentals are the issue. If points aren't used, then the unit goes to CRO to book for cash and the member looses their points. If rentals are restricted, the member looses the value of their investment.

 

[Brian Noble]

In principle, rentals are restricted: DVC has a prohibition against commercial use. (That's not to say that rentals are forbidden, just that they are restricted). In practice, Disney doesn't do much to enforce that prohibition. But if they decided to, they could make it a little more difficult.

 

[Sandisw]

In principle, rentals are restricted: DVC has a prohibition against commercial use. (That's not to say that rentals are forbidden, just that they are restricted). In practice, Disney doesn't do much to enforce that prohibition. But if they decided to, they could make it a little more difficult.

Very true, but honestly, I am really not sure that in the scheme of things there are that many owners who fall into that category. Even if it was reduced to 10 rentals (from the rumored 20) within a year in the name of others, I bet it is still very few people.

 

[Brian Noble]

True, but if instead of a number-of-reservations count they adopted Wyndham's rule of "no public advertising for renters" and then started sending C&D letters, that might at least make things harder.

It sounds like a drastic step, until you realize that another timeshare developer is doing it.

 

[Sandisw]

True, but if instead of a number-of-reservations count they adopted Wyndham's rule of "no public advertising for renters" and then started sending C&D letters, that might at least make things harder.

It sounds like a drastic step, until you realize that another timeshare developer is doing it.

I still think that would be considered a material change to the POS because if there is no way to advertise to rent your reservation, you are indirectly stopping someone who is expressly allowed to do it.

 

[wnielsen1]

Aren't we talking about a population of 60-70 million total points annually in the entire DVC system? It seems odd that renting can have that large of an impact.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Food for thought: It's all of the above, or below

• There's a glut of unused/banked points from COVID years
• Pent-up demand for vacay's
• Many (dare I say most?) owners maximize points usage by going for studio's
• Commercial rental agencies
• Walking reservations
• SAP point usage
• Owners that are now savvier on rental options instead of points breakage
• Etc.

 

[CarolMN]

PSA:

No more posts assuming motives or responding in a personal or confrontational manner. Watch how you use quotes! From here on, infractions will be issued for those who cannot follow the posting guidelines.

 

[Brian Noble]

I still think that would be considered a material change to the POS

Maybe, but I'm not sure I'd bet the viability of my DVC ownership on it. That's particularly true given that Disney is free to propose (and implement) any definition of "commercial" they think is reasonable, and it would be up to you to prove them wrong if you thought they violated the POS.

The question isn't renting or not, it is commercial or not. It is Wyndham's position that publicly advertising for a stranger to rent is commercial. That would not prevent you from renting to someone you happen to know. It probably also would not prevent you from advertising in a "closed" forum that wasn't public. For example, a public facebook group would run afoul of Wyndham's definition but a closed group of timeshare enthusiasts that requires someone to join to see any discussion probably doesn't.

An interesting corner case is RedWeek. They require you to join to participate in their market as a renter. Would Wyndham consider that public advertising? Maybe not.

 

[mistysue]

If they didn't allow rentals, people would either lie about renting the room, or book rooms and give them away to people they knew. No point in letting points expire unused, so people would find a way to use them.

 

[OnThisMagicNight]

I am a charter member. So I am quite sure I understand.

I don't think the system was designed to handle the current iteration of the rental market. The fixed week issue is a real problem. I don't know what the solution is, but something should be done.

I am looking at the 2nd week of Nov and there is nothing.

Maybe you'll have luck this Friday when the VGF Resort Studios are available for all members to book online? Or I guess it's also possible that some owners may switch their existing studios at other home resorts to VGF (just to try out the new studios), thus creating more availability at the resorts you actually want? Good luck!

 

[aokeefe]

I am a charter member. So I am quite sure I understand.

I don't think the system was designed to handle the current iteration of the rental market. The fixed week issue is a real problem. I don't know what the solution is, but something should be done.

I am looking at the 2nd week of Nov and there is nothing

I have a BWV studio booked during the 2nd week of November (booked at 11 months). FWIW, I watched at the 7 month mark and the only studios available even at 7 months was SSR. Slim pickings even before the 7 month mark.