"Disney doesn't know if it's child or adult credit"

[bicker]

So how can you dictate that your way is the intended way?

Uh, I don't. I let Disney tell you. Lewisc was nice enough to obtain an authoritative answer from the official source for information for guests. When you get a contradictory email from WDW Guest Communications, post it, and we'll make a conference call together to get Disney to fix the misunderstanding. The fact is that as much as folks complain about conflicting information from WDW Guest Communications, not one person has ever posted an email contradicting that of another person. It's a fiction. WDW Guest Communications researches every question and provides a single, accurate, official answer.

The "confliction" comes because some guests want to get more out of the offering than the offering offers, and they know that $6/hour CMs don't care about what's right or wrong, so those guests know they can get away with whatever they want. I drive to work each morning along I-95. Where US-3 merges into the interstate there is always a bottleneck. There are these solid orange lines on the ground that indicate the part of the ground that you're supposed to drive on. However, there are always a few self-indulgent yahoos who don't want to wait for their turn like the rest of us, and see no reason not to drive on the shoulders, cutting across two lanes of the on-ramp from US-3, so they can continue driving on the shoulder. That doesn't mean that those drivers are right.

For the record, I don't think Disney cares about the few selfish guests who exploit and take advantage of their leniency. They figure that it costs less to let a few guests get away with whatever, just as long as the vast majority of guests behave with integrity.

However, that, also, doesn't make the exploitive guests right.

 

[Pedler]

Wow, that was quick: So you're now mixing rationalization of the bad behavior with trying to deflect attention from the bad behavior.

My closet is skelton-free. I abide by the law. I follow rules. I live with integrity.

How about you?

That was a bit harsh. How is this bad behavior if it is allowed and encouraged by Disney?

 

[Pedler]

Uh, I don't. I let Disney tell you. Lewisc was nice enough to obtain an authoritative answer from the official source for information for guests. When you get a contradictory email from WDW Guest Communications, post it, and we'll make a conference call together to get Disney to fix the misunderstanding. The fact is that as much as folks complain about conflicting information from WDW Guest Communications, not one person has ever posted an email contradicting that of another person. It's a fiction. WDW Guest Communications researches every question and provides a single, accurate, official answer.

The "confliction" comes because some guests want to get more out of the offering than the offering offers, and they know that $6/hour CMs don't care about what's right or wrong, so those guests know they can get away with whatever they want. I drive to work each morning along I-95. Where US-3 merges into the interstate there is always a bottleneck. There are these solid orange lines on the ground that indicate the part of the ground that you're supposed to drive on. However, there are always a few self-indulgent yahoos who don't want to wait for their turn like the rest of us, and see no reason not to drive on the shoulders, cutting across two lanes of the on-ramp from US-3, so they can continue driving on the shoulder. That doesn't mean that they're right.

I missed LewisC post on this. Was it part of this thread? Could you post a link to it? Thanks.

 

[bicker]

That was a bit harsh. How is this bad behavior if it is allowed and encouraged by Disney?

Show me a color glossy brochure that actively encourages this practice, and I'll believe what you're saying here.

It is a big harsh for people to be asserting that I have "skeletons" in a closet, solely in the interest of defending -- no advocating -- actions they want to believe are okay.

I quit this thread earlier on, because it was the same old rehash of rationalizations... I'm not sure why I resubscribed. Nothing has changed.

 

[Goobergal99]

Show me a color glossy brochure that actively encourages this practice, and I'll believe what you're saying here.

It is a big harsh for people to be asserting that I have "skeletons" in a closet, solely in the interest of defending -- no advocating -- actions they want to believe are okay.

I quit this thread earlier on, because it was the same old rehash of rationalizations... I'm not sure why I resubscribed. Nothing has changed.

You come on here and insult ppl's integrity but can't take the heat when someone responds? you tend to involve yourself in alot of controversial threads but you never seem to take it well when ppl challenge you. If you can't swim with the big fish then get out of the water

 

[Goobergal99]

The "confliction" comes because some guests want to get more out of the offering than the offering offers, and they know that $6/hour CMs don't care about what's right or wrong, so those guests know they can get away with whatever they want.
QUOTE]

So you think it's ok for the largest single area employer in the country to pay their CM's peanuts??? You don't think that Disney is taking advantatge of it's employees? Where is the integrity in that. I made more then $6 an hour working in the mall in highschool and I wasn't held to the standards that a Disney employee is

 

[disneyjunkie]

you tend to involve yourself in alot of controversial threads but you never seem to take it well when ppl challenge you. If you can't swim with the big fish then get out of the water

You have done this yourself. (The SW thread comes to mind.) You didn't take it very well when other posters flamed you for lying about your short 7 year old being under 5 in order to preboard a flight. For the record I think they were right.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Goobergal99]

You have done this yourself. (The SW thread comes to mind.) You didn't take it very well when other posters flamed you for lying about your short 7 year old being under 5 in order to preboard a flight. For the record I think they were right.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

I didn't lie. They never asked

 

[HayGan]

It never ceases to amaze me how these threads deteriorate While there are differences of opinion, I don't think it is right for anyone to insult anyone due to their beliefs.

I have my opinion on the subject and I am certainly open to listening to others opinions if they are presented in a respectful way. But any discussion that is filled with hateful and derrogatory tones holds no value to me irregardless of which side of the argument you stand on

 

[Pedler]

Show me a color glossy brochure that actively encourages this practice, and I'll believe what you're saying here.

This is not in the brochure, nor does it say this is not allowed in the brochure. The brochure does say that credits may be used by any person in the group and the implementation of the program is that way. Next time you go ask your server and manager at each place you eat at about this and see what answer you get.

It is a big harsh for people to be asserting that I have "skeletons" in a closet, solely in the interest of defending -- no advocating -- actions they want to believe are okay.

I agree that it is a bit harsh for people to assert that you have skeltons in the closet. I just don't understand why people here at the DIS can not agree to disgree in a respectful manner.

I quit this thread earlier on, because it was the same old rehash of rationalizations... I'm not sure why I resubscribed. Nothing has changed.

I am not sure that this fits the definition of rationalization. This is how the plan exists in the real world. This is how it is implemented. There is no ambiguity on this matter. I can understand people disagreeing on this issue but at least base it on facts. The same old two reasons for disagreeing on this come up from those opposed to the plan as well. Those reasons are:

1: It can't be possible for this to be true just because it can't be possible.

2: Unless I see it explicitly definied in the brochure then it isn't allowed. Of course by that standard anyone that asks for and gets a specialty drink as part of the plan is abusing the system. After all those are not allowed on the plan yet there are some Disney owned restaurants that willing provid them on a regular basis.

I assume that those opposed to the use of pooled credits would also be appalled at getting a smoothie at the Concourse Steakhouse or a Latte at Boma. After all that is not definied in the plan and much like the use of "child" credits it is a loophole that ethical people wouldn't think of taking advantage of. Of course I would love to see the look on your servers face when you told them that you wouldn't accept the drink because it isn't on the plan and you were concerned about what consuming the drink would do to the long term cost of dinning and that you may ruin it for everyone with your bad behavior.

 

[jonkatony]

I have read loads of these threads and until disney takes some form of action they will continue on until the thread is closed for name calling.
There are two camps
People who believe it is wrong to use a child meal plan to pay for an adults meal and because disney doesn't enforce its implied rules, people who use they plan in this way are abusing the system.

People who beleive it is o.k because disney have done nothing to change it. To this camp disney silence speakes volumes.

I have yet to read anything conclusive either way. I continue to check the threads, but to no avail.

Outcome if proved wrong
Camp 1 Get a life and stop worring about other people.
Camp 2 Yes you are cheating the system, you are a cheat.

This is why in my opinion there will be no agreement until disney does something to settle this once an for all

 

[Sammie]

I believe we have already expressed our opinions about this "so called" email from Disney. Perhaps you should READ THE ENTIRE THREAD!

I have tried to stay out of this, because it is obvious people are going to do what they want. That is fine, but the email is legit, I will be glad to forward you a copy. I do not lie.

I emailed Disney from their website and that is the reply I got. You are welcome to do the same. In fact if you are so sure they don't have any problem with, email them.

I realize they don't enforce it. I also realize that if I have 2 adults and 2 children on a meal plan, I won't be getting selective amnesia just because I can. Many things in life are not enforced, but that does not make it ok to ignore them. I contacted Disney for clarification, I got it.

It is amazing to me on these threads that some of you don't want to be accused of anything or labled, but you are very quick to do it to others.

I could care less what anyone does with the plan, but why does it bother anyone if you are in your right to use the plan this way that the email I got said different.

 

[Pedler]

This is why in my opinion there will be no agreement until disney does something to settle this once an for all

That may be a long time, if ever, in coming. From all acounts past dinning plans operated in the same manner. If it is the case, as I feel it is, that Disney does allow the pooling of credits and does not care about the use of credits in this manner then the only acceptable proof for folk like bicker would be a section on a printed brochure explicitly stating this with an example. Somehow I doubt that it is high on the mouse's list to make a change just to satify a few people here at the DIS.

On the other hand if the do feel it is a problem and needs to be changed then they could make a specific policy statement along with a change at the restaurants. If that were to happen I would gladly admit the change and agree that it is wrong. As time goes on and the consitent rumours of change being just around the corner turn out to be false it appears that this isn't going to happen.

In the absence of an explicitly defined example saying it is allowed or it isn't allowed we are only left to interpret what happens in the real world. From this there apear to be three camps:

Group 1: Will interpet the slimest of evidence to support using pooled credits. They most likely will also find the one comment from a CM saying that refillable mugs purchased last year are for life at any resort and justify that action as well. This group is a very small minority it would appear. This group would try to use this feature even if it was explicitly not allowed.

Group 2: Will look for the single piece of evidence that supports the opinion that this isn't allowed. Even in the absence of that they will still contend that it isn't allowed. For the most part they don't like this feature and even if there were an explicitly definied policy outlinging it they would still call it unfair.

Group 3: This group wants to follow the rules but also wants to save money. They look at what Disney allows and then utilize the plan for thier dinning choices to maximize the savings. If it isn't allowed they most likely wouldn't use the plan in this manner. On the other hand they exist in the real world and use the plan as it exist in the real world and not as others want it defined. (See group 1 & 2).

The biggest problem with these discussions is that the folk in group 2 get overtaken by thier emotions at times and start using deragatory terms to describe the folk in the other groups when there is no basis in fact or the real word to use these terms. That's my biggest hangup with this discussion and why I continue to post to them. Calling people cheats, immoral or thieves for using a plan in a manner allowed by Disney and if when asked people at the resorts and restuarants will tell them it is allowed is in my opinion inappropriate. I think it shows that they are making an emotional decision and not one based in fact. That also comes across in thier postings. You can tell that some of them truly get worked up over the use of the plan in this manner. Heck one poster on another thread even said that regardless of what Disney says or does it is still wrong. They also tend to be the people that use the term unfair to refer to aspects of the dinning plan. For all the posters in group 2 I have only seen one piece of evidence to support thier theory, the letter posted by Sammie. And even that seemed to contain come signifigant factual mistakes that would cause you to discount its accuracy. That is the CM's use of child / adult credits as no such think exist. Outside of that they have no other evidence to support thier theories.

 

[Pedler]

I realize they don't enforce it. I also realize that if I have 2 adults and 2 children on a meal plan, I won't be getting selective amnesia just because I can. Many things in life are not enforced, but that does not make it ok to ignore them. I contacted Disney for clarification, I got it.

It is amazing to me on these threads that some of you don't want to be accused of anything or labled, but you are very quick to do it to others.

I could care less what anyone does with the plan, but why does it bother anyone if you are in your right to use the plan this way that the email I got said different.

Out of curiosity how do you reconcile CM's offering this advice at the hotel, as the OP stated? I understand that they don't enforce it but there have been many postings from users that have either gotten unsolicited advice as to the use of the plan. Also it appears that most if not all people who have asked the servers and managers at the restuarants seem to have gotten the answer that this is allowed. If it is not allowed and just not enforced then you would think someone at the restuarants would say so.

Your e-mail is the only evidence I have seen yet that would cause me to reconsider my stance on this issue.

 

[Sammie]

Out of curiosity how do you reconcile CM's offering this advice at the hotel, as the OP stated? I understand that they don't enforce it but there have been many postings from users that have either gotten unsolicited advice as to the use of the plan. Also it appears that most if not all people who have asked the servers and managers at the restuarants seem to have gotten the answer that this is allowed. If it is not allowed and just not enforced then you would think someone at the restuarants would say so.

Your e-mail is the only evidence I have seen yet that would cause me to reconsider my stance on this issue.

I reconcile it by that fact that not everyone is ever going to follow policy. One of the problems at Disney is there are 55,000 employees. Many don't know and some don't care.

At Disney you have official policy and regardless of what some will argue I believe the email I got stated official policy. And then at Disney, there is what I like to call "pixie dust" policy. I do find it hard to believe that managers are doing this. They really could be putting their jobs on the line.

As to whether everyone is being told this, surely we all know in this type of discussion not many are going to come back and say I was told no. We are only going to hear about those that were allowed to do this. Also at this point since we all know the plan is not set up to prevent this, does an entry level CM really have a leg to stand on to stop. Probably not. They are into avoidance of a scene.

Its kinda like the extra adult charge for a room. If you book a room and tell them you have 3 adults, you are definitely going to get charged, official policy. If you book 2 adults and later in your trip your adult child joins you and you go to the Front Desk, you might get charged and you might not. If not, Pixie Dust policy.

I do find it interesting that everyone that is sure it's fine with Disney are not willing to email them and ask.

I am not going to call anyone names who wishes to use the plan in this manner. It would be nice if others would do the same for us that will not use the plan is this manner.

It truly is a personal preference with me. Many things in life are not enforced. I don't disregard them because they are.

But today, I really don't want to argue this. I am too saddened by the tragic injury to Barbaro and as he goes into surgery today, I would ask those that do believe in prayer and have a kind heart toward animals to say one for him.

 

[Pedler]

I reconcile it by that fact that not everyone is ever going to follow policy. One of the problems at Disney is there are 55,000 employees. Many don't know and some don't care.

At Disney you have official policy and regardless of what some will argue I believe the email I got stated official policy. And then at Disney, there is what I like to call "pixie dust" policy. I do find it hard to believe that managers are doing this. They really could be putting their jobs on the line.
I do find it interesting that everyone that is sure it's fine with Disney are not willing to email them and ask.

I am not going to call anyone names who wishes to use the plan in this manner. It would be nice if others would do the same for us that will not use the plan is this manner.

Regarding the managers there is a post on this thread where someone did explicitly ask the managers at the restuarants about the policy. If it was just one I would say that maybe they are out of line but everyone the person asked said it was an allowed use. Only three possibilities could explain this. First the poster made it up. Second that all of the managers the poster spoke to are willing to risk thier jobs or third it is an allowed policy.

As for Disney having many employees that may not know or care they same could be said for the response to your e-mail, more so becuase they mentioned the child / adult credits that don't actually exist. That would cause you to wonder if they did know what they were talking about. I sent you a PM and will take you up on the challenge to send another e-mail to Disney on this. I will ask the question about two things. First paying OOP for kids at signature meals and second using pooled credits for a signature meal for the adults while the kids are in the kids club.

 

[jonkatony]

posted by pedler
Group 3: This group wants to follow the rules but also wants to save money. They look at what Disney allows and then utilize the plan for thier dinning choices to maximize the savings. If it isn't allowed they most likely wouldn't use the plan in this manner. On the other hand they exist in the real world and use the plan as it exist in the real world and not as others want it defined. (See group 1 & 2).

Pedler, eveveryone would want to be in group 3. I would like it defined one way or the other

 

[Pedler]

posted by pedler
Group 3: This group wants to follow the rules but also wants to save money. They look at what Disney allows and then utilize the plan for thier dinning choices to maximize the savings. If it isn't allowed they most likely wouldn't use the plan in this manner. On the other hand they exist in the real world and use the plan as it exist in the real world and not as others want it defined. (See group 1 & 2).

Pedler, eveveryone would want to be in group 3. I would like it defined one way or the other

I would like to think that everyone would like to be in group 3 but in reality there are definitely people in group 1, will manipulate a situation to thier benefit regardless of the rules, just look at the postings on changing kids ages to get the free dinning plan and the endless refillable mug debates. There are also people in group 2 that have stated regardless of what Disney says the use of pooled credits is wrong.

I do think most people want to be in group 3 and would like it definied explicitly. The problem is what do you do if you are in group 3 and it is never definied explicitly?

 

[Lizzybee]

Why should this be a debate at all if the Disney Dining Plan clearly states "you use your meals and snack in any order and in any amount throughout your package stay until your total is depleted." It also states "You can continue using meals any way you like for the rest of your package stay until the numbers of meals/snack are depleted." So what on earth is the debate about? Had Disney wanted to make sure rule followers like myself used a credit per person dining per meal to avoid pooling credits, then they could have said so on the brochure. In fact their table to show how many meals and snacks are included states "per person age 3+ per night" it shows 5 nights X 4 people = 20 CS, 20 snacks, and 20 TS meals. Their table doesn't even distinguish age other than to say age 3+. It doesn't say 10 adults CS credits and 10 child CS credits, etc. I just don't get the debate, just read the brochure. WDW has the means and technology to stop people from pooling credits, however they apparently lack the desire. I also don't buy that the execs of a huge company such as this lack the foresight to have prevented this from happening at the start had they wanted to do so.

BTW I printed my brochure of the WDW website in black and white so it's not exactly glossy but it makes things pretty clear just the same.

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

I read on the dining plan brochure 5 times children ages 3-9 must eat off the children's menu, it also says at the bottom it is not transferrable. I have just called disney dining and spoke to a supervisor. The above is what she quoted me from the brochure. If you get caught and it is hard to get all the CM's to fall in line with the process, because they are counting on a tip, your dining plan will be revoked! Spoke with Sylvia.