DAS is getting an Upgrade!

[Branderson610]

I'm saying Disney corporate will now have even more data than they did before. With the bright bold warnings about fraud now being shared by corporate, one cannot assume Disney will not find some way to use that data to handle an issue they believe they are having or will have.

Disney really can't prove fraud this way. It could be a disaster for them. Somedays may be better than others days for a person with a disability where they are able to stand in line etc. Other days they may not be able to stand in the stand by lines. To me this is like saying, said person doesn't have diabetes because they were tracked eating candy and drinking soda on said days so there were lying. However, the said person really does have the condition. Legally Disney would need substantial data and years of it to even try to touch this subject.

 

[SueM in MN]

I would be curious to see how Disney can prove they were lied to. It's a pretty sticky situation to accuse someone of lying. Disney better come with hard cold facts, which most visitors know Disney won't do in my opinion. I am no thief or am I a liar, but if I was, that wording by Disney would not scare me at all, because really how can they prove a person lied without accusing people? Which, in the end can be bad for Disney.

My opinion - Disney has data we don’t know about regarding DAS use. They also have no desire to get into another DAS lawsuit - they won the last ones, but it’s gone on since shortly after DAS was introduced in 2013 and is not totally complete yet.

I don’t think Disney CMs will be publicly accusing people - that’s not how they usually handle security incidents/concerns. They usually handle things backstage and quietly.

I think if there is a concern, CMs will be able to ‘flag’ it for further investigation. And, they won’t be looking at one incident (unless it’s something really obvious). They will be looking at patterns

 

[SueM in MN]

As I said before, they'll rely on all the data genie gives them and compare that the statements made and pics taken...

They will easily see...

- How long and how often over the course of a trip a DAS holder can actually wait in line

- If the DAS holder is actually riding every ride

- If the DAS holder's "riding partners" are the same for every day of the trip

Etc, etc, etc...

Again, I don't think Disney will bar someone, unless they are online bragging (or bragging in front of CMs) about fraud. But, I can see them denying renewals and then saying the park usage does not display the needs discussed...and leaving it up to the DAS holder to then provide proof. B/c then, they aren't asking for disability - they are just saying the DAS holder already has displayed the ability for equal access without the pass, so why would the pass still be needed...and it's off them, and now on you, to prove it, b/c they have their proof.

Disney also has information about the types of fraud related to DAS that is going on/has been going on since it started in 2013 - especially since DAS became digital around 5 years ago.
I think the things they will be looking for are the most egregious or ones they have seen repeatedly - things like:

- bloggers or video bloggers bragging about ‘hacks‘ to get DAS or ‘pulling one over’ on Disney. Bloggers did it before with GAC (Guest Assistance Cards) and DAS

- people trying to use DAS on rides the DAS holder is not going on. Once is possibly a mistake or misunderstanding, but trying multiple times after being told ‘no’ is a pattern. That would be easy to tag - the DAS holder’s picture comes up for the CM to check when guests check in for the DAS Return Time. That would be easy to tag.

- people trying to use DAS Return Times when the DAS holder is not in the park. Again, once might be a mistake or misunderstanding, trying it again is a pattern. Again, easy to tag.

- DAS holders with a revolving list of people linked to their DAS who appear once and never again. No, I don’t think anything will be considered strange if Grandma and Grandpa go on one trip and Uncle Fred and Aunt Wilma come on another. I think they will be looking for patterns - is the DAS holder coming once a week with different people each time?

I don’t think they will be ‘going after’ guests for one instance. I think they will be tagging things and looking for patterns

In the DAS lawsuit, Disney DID present specific information about people’s use of DAS and waiting that contradicted what that guest/family had in their deposition. That was different - it was a lawsuit and people had made specific claims.
I do think Disney would have access to that kind of information, I don’t know how easily.

But, I also think they are aware that people have good and bad days and there are things that might impact people’s ability to wait in line, from day to day or even the same day.
Some people might start out the day strong and be able to wait in some fairly long lines in the beginning of the day, but can’t tolerate the same wait later (Or vice versa).
There may be specific lines/attractions that are an issue for someone, but others are OK. Or some days, the DAS user is more sensitive to things/ having more trouble than others.
So a line that was OK yesterday or this morning might not be OK at a different time.

 

[Branderson610]

What would the future investigation intel that would not violate the rights of the customer? If, Disney flagged me they would be wrong I would feel like my rights were violated.

 

[mshanson3121]

Disney also has information about the types of fraud related to DAS that is going on/has been going on since it started in 2013 - especially since DAS became digital around 5 years ago.
I think the things they will be looking for are the most egregious or ones they have seen repeatedly - things like:

- bloggers or video bloggers bragging about ‘hacks‘ to get DAS or ‘pulling one over’ on Disney. Bloggers did it before with GAC (Guest Assistance Cards) and DAS

- people trying to use DAS on rides the DAS holder is not going on. Once is possibly a mistake or misunderstanding, but trying multiple times after being told ‘no’ is a pattern. That would be easy to tag - the DAS holder’s picture comes up for the CM to check when guests check in for the DAS Return Time. That would be easy to tag.

- people trying to use DAS Return Times when the DAS holder is not in the park. Again, once might be a mistake or misunderstanding, trying it again is a pattern. Again, easy to tag.

- DAS holders with a revolving list of people linked to their DAS who appear once and never again. No, I don’t think anything will be considered strange if Grandma and Grandpa go on one trip and Uncle Fred and Aunt Wilma come on another. I think they will be looking for patterns - is the DAS holder coming once a week with different people each time?

I don’t think they will be ‘going after’ guests for one instance. I think they will be tagging things and looking for patterns

In the DAS lawsuit, Disney DID present specific information about people’s use of DAS and waiting that contradicted what that guest/family had in their deposition. That was different - it was a lawsuit and people had made specific claims.
I do think Disney would have access to that kind of information, I don’t know how easily.

But, I also think they are aware that people have good and bad days and there are things that might impact people’s ability to wait in line, from day to day or even the same day.
Some people might start out the day strong and be able to wait in some fairly long lines in the beginning of the day, but can’t tolerate the same wait later (Or vice versa).
There may be specific lines/attractions that are an issue for someone, but others are OK. Or some days, the DAS user is more sensitive to things/ having more trouble than others.
So a line that was OK yesterday or this morning might not be OK at a different time.

It really does baffle me how many people think Disney is so stupid, as to not have a plan in place, or that they haven't considered this stuff. If they thought there was going to be enough abuse to make a difference (to either actual DAS users or their bottom line) and they didn't have a plan in place to counteract that, then they wouldn't do it, especially after the GAC/lawsuit issue. Which is another reason why I think all this hoopla and panic is for nothing.

 

[mshanson3121]

What would the future investigation intel that would not violate the rights of the customer? If, Disney flagged me they would be wrong I would feel like my rights were violated.

Which is kind of one of those "oh well" situations. Ultimately if you chose to feel that way or get offended, that would be your choice/problem, not theirs. Your rights wouldn't be violated since they are legally allowed to look into suspected abuse of an accommodation.

 

[SarahC97]

As I said before, they'll rely on all the data genie gives them and compare that the statements made and pics taken...

They will easily see...
- How long and how often over the course of a trip a DAS holder can actually wait in line
- If the DAS holder is actually riding every ride
- If the DAS holder's "riding partners" are the same for every day of the trip

Etc, etc, etc...

Again, I don't think Disney will bar someone, unless they are online bragging (or bragging in front of CMs) about fraud. But, I can see them denying renewals and then saying the park usage does not display the needs discussed...and leaving it up to the DAS holder to then provide proof. B/c then, they aren't asking for disability - they are just saying the DAS holder already has displayed the ability for equal access without the pass, so why would the pass still be needed...and it's off them, and now on you, to prove it, b/c they have their proof.

This doesn't apply to every need, though. I have an autoimmune disorder. Some days I cannot wait in line, some days I can. Heck, some hours I can wait in line, some hours I cannot. It's not always a consistent need but DAS does help me to not have to worry should that need arise.

 

[OurBigTrip]

What would the future investigation intel that would not violate the rights of the customer? If, Disney flagged me they would be wrong I would feel like my rights were violated.

What rights? The only rights that any of us have in the parks is equal access to the attractions, transportation, food, etc. From what a PP said, there may be additional rights in DL related to data retention due to CA law, but that’s about it as far as I can see.

 

[lanejudy]

What would the future investigation intel that would not violate the rights of the customer? If, Disney flagged me they would be wrong I would feel like my rights were violated.

I honestly don't think a legitimate user has any concern. You might not even know if they flagged and investigated your (child's) DAS use. If they refused to re-issue it, you likely would need to counter with specific information to get it re-instated. But again, I don't think a legitimate user has any concern.

As grandma used to say "don't borrow trouble." Stores post signs about no shoplifting -- are you concerned they might think you shoplifted? No. A warning is a warning, intended to dissuade those who might consider the infraction; go about your legitimate business and don't worry about it.

 

[Branderson610]

What rights? The only rights that any of us have in the parks is equal access to the attractions, transportation, food, etc. From what a PP said, there may be additional rights in DL related to data retention due to CA law, but that’s about it as far as I can see.

Yes, those are the rights I am referring to. If, Disney accuses an individual of lying about their disabilty and Disney is proven wrong, then there was a violation in my opinion. Which, is why I don't think Disney is going to go after most.

 

[Branderson610]

I honestly don't think a legitimate user has any concern. You might not even know if they flagged and investigated your (child's) DAS use. If they refused to re-issue it, you likely would need to counter with specific information to get it re-instated. But again, I don't think a legitimate user has any concern.

As grandma used to say "don't borrow trouble." Stores post signs about no shoplifting -- are you concerned they might think you shoplifted? No. A warning is a warning, intended to dissuade those who might consider the infraction; go about your legitimate business and don't worry about it.

Oh, trust and believe I can provide anything to anyone about my daughter's disability on the spot. Also, please do not bring my daughter into this for your own personal gain. Just address me. Also, I worked retail in college and we had a Loss Prevention team that caught tons of shoplifters weekly, also many were not caught so threats are out there no matter how many signs are posted

 

[lanejudy]

Also, please do not bring my daughter into this for your own personal gain.

My personal gain? Just pointing out that it's the DAS-holder who has the right to an accommodation, not the family. You are getting awfully flustered over something that many are saying is probably a non-issue for your family. Maybe it's time to take a break and not think about DAS for a bit...

 

[Branderson610]

I am the voice for my child. I am not flustered at all. I just think it is disrespectful for you to address my child. It shows your character. Also, mean girl tactics do not work on me. I have a right to voice my opinion, even if you disagree.

 

[TwoMisfits]

Yes, those are the rights I am referring to. If, Disney accuses an individual of lying about their disabilty and Disney is proven wrong, then there was a violation in my opinion. Which, is why I don't think Disney is going to go after most.

But they would never do that...all they would say is that you don't seem to need the DAS pass to have equal access to the park as your previous documented park behavior exhibits...that's it. It keeps them out of any discussion of disabilities at all, since accommodations from them only need to be reasonable, and if you can reasonably equally access the park without the pass and they have data to show it, they are good to go legally.

Many disabled folks can reasonably access a park without a DAS, just like many disabled folks can reasonably walk an entire parking lot and don't need handicapped parking tags (as another example where not every disability qualifies for a disabled "pass"). You fit the accommodation to the need, normally accepting the close calls, not denying them. I fully expect Disney to continue to do that moving forward - if you have a true need, you have no worries about these changes.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I am the voice for my child. I am not flustered at all. I just think it is disrespectful for you to address my child. It shows your character. Also, mean girl tactics do not work on me. I have a right to voice my opinion, even if you disagree.

no one addressed your child, and although LaneJudy and I sometimes disagree, there isn’t a sweeter soul in this board, and one who volunteers her time on this board as a moderator. You’re way out of line.

 

[SueM in MN]

Closing this thread at this time.
it may be reopened later