Coalition

[TheZue]

I totally understand how this is allowed under our system but I gotta say the entire weekend I was FUMING! And there are several reasons already stated...I'll just add a couple more.

1) I think it's going to horribly alienate Alberta. Everyone always assumes the big threat to Canadian unity is Quebec but I don't think it is. How long do they really expect Alberta to keep shoveling money East without a whole lot of input? And when the party of their choice is in power for a relatively short time this happens. It's going to change the slogan from the West wants in to the West wants out imo.

2) Harper is an idiot. I voted for him and I am definitely a torie but man do we need a NEW leader. He needs to get out of there before he totally destroys the chances for any future leader. And like it or not, we need Quebec so his hissy fit about the seperatists is just going to hurt the party down the road. Personally I'd love to see Peter McCay run or Chuck Strahl. And now he wants to suspend parliament...ugh...technically that's fully constitutional too; but again unethical as hell. I'd rather see him take the high road on this and not get down in the mud to fight them.

3) If they really want to form a coalition I think they should go to the polls as that coalition. Pick out one candidate from the three parties for each riding and fight to govern. But my guess is they wouldn't even be able to figure out who should get to run and would fight; so really in that case how are they going to be able to govern?

4) What the heck is their platform???? Those three parties have totally different ideas on how to run the country...is public daycare back on the table? Pharmacare? Inheritance taxes? And all they've talked about so far is supporting the auto and forestry industry...why the heck would they give the auto industry a red cent before they figure out what the US is going to do? And forestry; well in BC the final nail went in that coffin years ago. Why don't they have a package for the Salmon fishery while they are at it? The one thing I do agree with is making EI easier to access...that fund has been totally out of wack and funneling into general revenue for way too long.

 

[TheZue]

Also if you have ANY DOUBTS as to what the world thinks of this - just check out the recent further "crash" in the TSE - also just give the bank a call and ask them how much money you have lost on your investments in the past couple of days - you will quickly change your mind on letting this farce continue

Exactly...it's just breeding instability. And the last two days while the TSX has gone down the DOW has gone up and they are usually pretty consistant with each other.

Gotta say I'm kinda glad the anger isn't only being felt over here on the West coast...I was kinda worried when I saw this thread I was going to have to come off as the crazy westerner lol.

 

[Ham Ham]

Just a little story that's come to light in Ottawa.
Look's like the Canadian Alliance now the Conservatives had a deal ready to go during the 2000 Election with the Bloc.

Not passing judgement just interesting how today's deal with Bloc has upset so many Conservatives but back in 2000 it seemed OK

Political parties want to be in power and Conservative, Liberal, NDP will do what ever it takes to to stay or get their.

The Conservatives essentially were able to stay in power since 2006 with the support of the Bloc.

Any party would do the same to hold onto control in the House of Commons.

Click on headline for full article at theglobeandmail.com

Bloc part of secret coalition plot in 2000 with Canadian Alliance
A document obtained by The Globe and Mail shows that the scheme would have propelled then Alliance leader Stockwell Day to power in the coalition. A lawyer who was described then as being close to Day, says he didn't discuss the matter with the MPs

DANIEL LEBLANC
Globe and Mail Update
December 3, 2008 at 2:07 PM EST
OTTAWA — The separatist Bloc Québécois was part of secret plotting in 2000 to join a formal coalition with the two parties that now make up Stephen Harper's government, according to documents obtained by The Globe and Mail.

The scheme, designed to propel current Conservative minister Stockwell Day to power, undermines the Harper government's line this week that it would never sign a deal like the current one between the Liberal Party, the NDP and the Bloc.

Bloc officials said that well-known Calgary lawyer Gerry Chipeur sent a written offer before the votes were counted on election day on Nov. 27, 2000.

 

[TheZue]

Just a little story that's come to light in Ottawa.
Look's like the Canadian Alliance now the Conservatives had a deal ready to go during the 2000 Election with the Bloc.

Not passing judgement just interesting how today's deal with Bloc has upset so many Conservatives but back in 2000 it seemed OK

Political parties want to be in power and Conservative, Liberal, NDP will do what ever it takes to to stay or get their.

The Conservatives essentially were able to stay in power since 2006 with the support of the Bloc.

Any party would do the same to hold onto control in the House of Commons.

Click on headline for full article at theglobeandmail.com

Bloc part of secret coalition plot in 2000 with Canadian Alliance
A document obtained by The Globe and Mail shows that the scheme would have propelled then Alliance leader Stockwell Day to power in the coalition. A lawyer who was described then as being close to Day, says he didn't discuss the matter with the MPs

DANIEL LEBLANC
Globe and Mail Update
December 3, 2008 at 2:07 PM EST
OTTAWA — The separatist Bloc Québécois was part of secret plotting in 2000 to join a formal coalition with the two parties that now make up Stephen Harper's government, according to documents obtained by The Globe and Mail.

The scheme, designed to propel current Conservative minister Stockwell Day to power, undermines the Harper government's line this week that it would never sign a deal like the current one between the Liberal Party, the NDP and the Bloc.

Bloc officials said that well-known Calgary lawyer Gerry Chipeur sent a written offer before the votes were counted on election day on Nov. 27, 2000.

It was wrong then too....This is why it isn't ONLY conservatives that aren't happy....had that happened a lot of conservatives would have been mad then. A power grab is a power grab and that wouldn't have been good either; but the big difference is they didn't go through with it. Finding evidence of a plan that was thought about and not acted on doesn't make this okay. Personally when I see a non-confidence vote I expect an election.

But this just adds to my feeling that the tories need a lot more than "socialists, seperatists, and Dion Oh My!" to fight this. They don't need to point out to Canadians why this is crappy, they should just take the high road, let the coalition fail, and come out stronger on the other side.

 

[drag n' fly]

What a complete disgrace and embarrassment. Did our vote count for nothing??? Just another example of the taxpayers time and money going to waste

 

[damo]

The results of this little poll are interesting. The Star had a little blurb today about comments from the street and seems that most of the people they interviewed, or at least those they showed, were pro coalition. The Globe had a poll and although more people were against the coalition than for it, it was close. The Kitchener Record also has a poll which shows more people for the coalition.

I just don't understand where people say that more people voted for the coalition than for the conservatives in the last election. Nobody voted for the coalition.

 

[pxlbarrel]

I think it has to be re-emphasized that a coalition is quite legal, democratic and constitutional. Did your vote count? Does that question come from somebody who voted Tory, Liberal or NDP (or even BLOC?)? Every vote counts which is why more people should be voting. Hands up to those who didn't vote and are now fretting over a coalition? Shame on YOU if your hand is up.

The reality of a minority government is that coalitions are a distinct possibility which is why the governing party is supposed to work with the other parties to prevent a non-confidence vote. We can't fool ourselves into thinking that the BLOC have never had or will never have influence in a minority government. The Liberals and NDP require their support for a coalition. The Conversatives require their support to stave off a coalition. This time, they threw their support with the Liberals and NDP. Is it right to deal with the separatists? Ugh....I can tell you that there is probably no Liberal or no NDP supporter or member out there who doesn't have a bad taste in their mouth over having to deal with the BLOC but in the end, you have to.... because no matter what crap they stand for, they too were elected to Parliament. You can't wish them away, you can't ignore them. Whoever wants power, HAS to deal with them. Whoever doesn't have power, HAS to deal with them. So when somebody asks the question, "Did our vote count for nothing?" (and I'm not picking on drag'n fly, just your question was pretty good.), the question is yes. But the BLOC vote also counted and that's the "problem" with democracy. Everybody, even the separatists get a vote. As long as the BLOC exists in Quebec, they WILL influence any minority or coalition government.

I don't know if a coalition is better than the Conservatives. I do know that I find it scarier that Harper is asking the Governor General to suspend Parliament for a month till he figures out what to do. Now... THAT seems more undemocratic than a coalition.

 

[Ham Ham]

Well put. Get your flame retardant suit ready.

Some of the folks against the coalition would be fine with it if the Conservatives were pulling this on the Liberals.

Harper will do what ever he needs to do to hang onto power as any party would.

Too much purple prose not enough cogitating.

Prorogueies

Purple prose, a phrase my college english teacher loved to use.

Cogitate, I picked up from a Tubes song.

 

[maddiel]

I think that's a great post pxlbarrel.

I feel mighty sorry for Michaelle Jean right now.

M.

 

[ferris198]

I didn't feel we needed to go to the polls in the last election, and had no idea to vote for, I personally felt it was a waste of time.
This just proves to me that they are all children who can't play together.

 

[Ham Ham]

I didn't feel we needed to go to the polls in the last election, and had no idea to vote for, I personally felt it was a waste of time.
This just proves to me that they are all children who can't play together.

Agreed.

I think the Bloc let Harper know that the Conservative minority no longer had their support for his minority. Harper didn't want to lose a non confidence vote.

The coalition certainly underestimated the visceral reaction from some Canadians.

Interesting times. I think we'll be going to the polls soon.

Michaelle Jean will probably have a sleepless night.

 

[pxlbarrel]

Agreed.

I think the Bloc let Harper know that the Conservative minority no longer had their support for his minority. Harper didn't want to lose a non confidence vote.

The coalition certainly underestimated the visceral reaction from some Canadians.

Interesting times. I think we'll be going to the polls soon.

Michaelle Jean will probably have a sleepless night.

How would you like to be the Governor General today, eh? You think your job is all about hobnobbing with diplomats and heads of state and your title is mostly figurative than legislative. BAM ... and now, you have to make a decision that is probably going to be written and debated about throughout the years.

We're an odd little country, aren't we...

 

[declansdad]

I think it has to be re-emphasized that a coalition is quite legal, democratic and constitutional. Did your vote count? Does that question come from somebody who voted Tory, Liberal or NDP (or even BLOC?)? Every vote counts which is why more people should be voting. Hands up to those who didn't vote and are now fretting over a coalition? Shame on YOU if your hand is up.

The reality of a minority government is that coalitions are a distinct possibility which is why the governing party is supposed to work with the other parties to prevent a non-confidence vote. We can't fool ourselves into thinking that the BLOC have never had or will never have influence in a minority government. The Liberals and NDP require their support for a coalition. The Conversatives require their support to stave off a coalition. This time, they threw their support with the Liberals and NDP. Is it right to deal with the separatists? Ugh....I can tell you that there is probably no Liberal or no NDP supporter or member out there who doesn't have a bad taste in their mouth over having to deal with the BLOC but in the end, you have to.... because no matter what crap they stand for, they too were elected to Parliament. You can't wish them away, you can't ignore them. Whoever wants power, HAS to deal with them. Whoever doesn't have power, HAS to deal with them. So when somebody asks the question, "Did our vote count for nothing?" (and I'm not picking on drag'n fly, just your question was pretty good.), the question is yes. But the BLOC vote also counted and that's the "problem" with democracy. Everybody, even the separatists get a vote. As long as the BLOC exists in Quebec, they WILL influence any minority or coalition government.

I don't know if a coalition is better than the Conservatives. I do know that I find it scarier that Harper is asking the Governor General to suspend Parliament for a month till he figures out what to do. Now... THAT seems more undemocratic than a coalition.

Great post

 

[declansdad]

We the Canadian people voted for a Conservative government Not a coalition! What right do these people have to change what the canadian public voted for. There was no great outcry from the canadian public to change the government.

No all of the Canadian people voted for a conservative government. I'm not saying the coalition is right but more people voted for the NDP and Liberals than the CPC (just not together).

The Parliamentary System and therefore the Constitution gives them the right to do it.

 

[declansdad]

Exactly...it's just breeding instability. And the last two days while the TSX has gone down the DOW has gone up and they are usually pretty consistant with each other.

Gotta say I'm kinda glad the anger isn't only being felt over here on the West coast...I was kinda worried when I saw this thread I was going to have to come off as the crazy westerner lol.

Actually the DOW was down about the same amount on Monday.

 

[TreesyB]

No all of the Canadian people voted for a conservative government. I'm not saying the coalition is right but more people voted for the NDP and Liberals than the CPC (just not together).

The Parliamentary System and therefore the Constitution gives them the right to do it.

I think that Stephen Harper tried to bully his way through the budget speech. He miscalculated how the oppositions would react, considering they have not reacted to other confidence motions. But he hit politicians in the pocketbook, he hit the NDP at their fundamental core by taking away the right to strike, he hit the Bloc with freezing the rights of women for pay equity. When you hit the parties to their core, it's a no brainer that they want to form a coalition. Bullies are often surprised when their victims form groups to fight back.

Funny, anti bullying week was only a couple of weeks ago. I guess Stephen Harper didn't learn anything!

 

[damo]

I think that Stephen Harper tried to bully his way through the budget speech. He miscalculated how the oppositions would react, considering they have not reacted to other confidence motions. But he hit politicians in the pocketbook, he hit the NDP at their fundamental core by taking away the right to strike, he hit the Bloc with freezing the rights of women for pay equity. When you hit the parties to their core, it's a no brainer that they want to form a coalition. Bullies are often surprised when their victims form groups to fight back.

Funny, anti bullying week was only a couple of weeks ago. I guess Stephen Harper didn't learn anything!

I think it is time for the major economists in Canada to speak out. This shouldn't be about what is good for the parties but what is good for Canada. Going the way of the Liberals and NDP and throwing us into huge deficits that will take years to recover is just not the way to go. This isn't the US, we don't need the huge economic stimulus that they do. We don't need to be throwing 30 billion at the auto industry, especially if the US isn't going to do anything. This is just a bigger disaster waiting to happen.

 

[TreesyB]

I think it is time for the major economists in Canada to speak out. This shouldn't be about what is good for the parties but what is good for Canada. Going the way of the Liberals and NDP and throwing us into huge deficits that will take years to recover is just not the way to go. This isn't the US, we don't need the huge economic stimulus that they do. We don't need to be throwing 30 billion at the auto industry, especially if the US isn't going to do anything. This is just a bigger disaster waiting to happen.

Correct me if I'm wrong... didn't we have years of surplus with a Liberal majority?

And as an Ontarian, I remember the way Mike Harris decimated this province in terms of social initiatives that reflected horribly in high taxes for the municipalities. How is Harper different than Harris?

I'd also love to know how much big oil has to do with the all of this too.

 

[Salome]

you know what, I did not vote Bloc for a very long time but this whole story made me realized that they are right, the rest of Canada just don't give a damn about us, not even respect our elected representatives....just reading all your reactions and Harper stupid speech...all this awakened my little lost "separatist" flame...and next time I will vote Bloc!!

Vive le Québec libre!!

 

[DearDaisyinDurham]

no flaming, just honest thoughtful debating - gotta love Canada!!!