Charge for FP? Please say it aint so!

[twolittletinkerbells]

@Liljoe22 One could make an argument that Pop and the All Stars are your typical I4 motels.

 

[missbrooke06]

The details of what OP is saying don't make much sense. Disney is aggressively building for DVC but DVC members wouldn't get FP even if they were at FP hotels. It would really deincentivize people to buy DVC which seems counter to Disney's current strategy.

 

[Liljo22]

The details of what OP is saying don't make much sense. Disney is aggressively building for DVC but DVC members wouldn't get FP even if they were at FP hotels. It would really deincentivize people to buy DVC which seems counter to Disney's current strategy.

Plus why would a timeshare resale site be privy to this level of info. If this was even talked about, it would be at the executive level only.

 

[missbrooke06]

Plus why would a timeshare resale site be privy to this level of info. If this was even talked about, it would be at the executive level only.

Well... that too.

 

[tjkraz]

My point was not to open the parking debate, just to point out that is was bad press for them and they dealt with a lot of angry people calling. It would be a lot worse if they were to get rid of all included FPs.

Any policy change Disney makes is a tempest in a teapot. The die-hards complain while the general public largely ignores it, either not knowing the policy beforehand or just accepting that things have changed. 99% of the time the policy stays in effect. After a few weeks the discussion moves on to something else.

A few will choose to avoid Disney over this (or any) policy change. But that's anticipated before the decision is even made. In fact, some changes are designed to reduce attendance.

It wouldn't bother me if Disney charged for FP. It would likely significantly lower the wait times.

It's no secret that the introduction of FP+ made nearly every rides standby increase.

FastPass or no FastPass, it's just shuffling the deck. If crowds are the same and ride capacity is the same, they're only changing how guests are managed.

If FP usage declined, standby lines would get shorter. But then people wouldn't be benefitting from those handful of short FP wait times. Overall they're still spending a lot of time in line.

Wait times would vary depending on individual circumstances. There are always ways to manipulate the system in your favor. Today you can walk into the park, use your 3 pre-scheduled FPs, and then leave having spent hardly any time in line. If a paid FP option emerged, those who chose to pay would spend less time in line than others.

But I'm not sure there's any formula that would "significantly lower" wait times across the board. Without FP, the standby lines would move faster. But every guest is waiting on standby for every attraction.

 

[Scifidiner]

it's sad to say but after the last 20 years I would be surprised if they DON'T start charging for FPs

 

[Scifidiner]

If Disney ever eliminated the free FP+ I would take a hard look at switching to Universal only trips. At that point staying at a deluxe resort at Universal with free Express Pass might be enough to make me give up totally on Disney.

One of the biggest advantages to a US vacation is not having to plan the day down to the minute, a vacation is supposed to be somewhat relaxing.

 

[WDW_Ding]

Why WOULDN"T they? Disney is the only major theme park company that I know of that doesn't currently upcharge for an option to bypass lines.

I would be shocked if Disney did away with "free" fastpasses because, without fastpasses and with the huge crowds that are present at WDW about 75% of the time now, enjoying yourself at WDW without fastpasses would be almost impossible.

Plus, WDW has put such an investment in fastpass (MDE, separate FP queues, etc.) I don't think it would be worth it to make it a niche product. WDW has made fastpasses in to a central part of WDW.

 

[BrianL]

I could see them doing something like MaxPass at DL, where free FP will not go away, but those who pay a small premium will have an advantage in booking them more easily. It's already not a level playing field between onsite and offsite. I really don't think though that they will ever just get rid of the free version altogether though.

 

[DougEMG]

One of the biggest advantages to a US vacation is not having to plan the day down to the minute, a vacation is supposed to be somewhat relaxing.

I do like how the Express Pass allows you to not have to plan everything out. One of the things my wife hates about Disney is all the planning and scheduling that you have to follow in order to get anything done, which is why she prefers Universal over Disney.

 

[tjkraz]

One of the biggest advantages to a US vacation is not having to plan the day down to the minute, a vacation is supposed to be somewhat relaxing.

Universal's model provides unlimited rides for deluxe hotel guests while guests at other resorts, day guests and even pass holders (before 4pm) must pay extra for any sort of Express/Fastpass service. Do you really think that would translate well to Walt Disney World? Guests staying at the Poly, Grand Floridian, Beach Club and other deluxes get all-you-can-eat ride access while others are asked to pay more or use Standby exclusively?

(I wonder if Universal actually thinks that model is in their best interest or if they're held to it by a legacy contract with Loews. Curious that the newer resorts do not provide the free Express Pass.)

Nevertheless, Disney doesn't force you to "plan your day down to the minute." At worst, it's three attractions chosen in 60 minute time blocks. If you don't want to plan every day of your trip 60 days in advance...simply don't do it. Personally I'd probably pick one day for Animal Kingdom to lock in a Pandora ride and another for Mine Train. But other than that, guests could secure their FPs days or hours in advance and still have access to nearly all attractions.

 

[Scifidiner]

Universal's model provides unlimited rides for deluxe hotel guests while guests at other resorts, day guests and even pass holders (before 4pm) must pay extra for any sort of Express/Fastpass service. Do you really think that would translate well to Walt Disney World? Guests staying at the Poly, Grand Floridian, Beach Club and other deluxes get all-you-can-eat ride access while others are asked to pay more or use Standby exclusively?

(I wonder if Universal actually thinks that model is in their best interest or if they're held to it by a legacy contract with Loews. Curious that the newer resorts do not provide the free Express Pass.)

Nevertheless, Disney doesn't force you to "plan your day down to the minute." At worst, it's three attractions chosen in 60 minute time blocks. If you don't want to plan every day of your trip 60 days in advance...simply don't do it. Personally I'd probably pick one day for Animal Kingdom to lock in a Pandora ride and another for Mine Train. But other than that, guests could secure their FPs days or hours in advance and still have access to nearly all attractions.

Sure I don't have to use FP, I can choose to wait in line with everybody else. You forgot to mention ADRs for specific dining, unless I just want to wing it and eat QS. So that's 3 FP/day and at least lunch and dinner reservations. Of course that locks me in to a specific park for each day as well. Sure I don't have to make any reservations for anything at WDW, but then I'll potentially be penalized for not doing so. I'll admit it's a little like comparing apple to oranges. The bottom line is a US stay doesn't require nearly as much forethought and planning for whatever reasons. If you don't mind planning a trip, some people like it, that's great. Truth is sometimes I don't mind planning ahead, but sometimes I do.

 

[Princess_Lisa]

I agree. Wouldnt surprise me either. Universal does it, so why not disney? They're starting to charge for everything so ya, i can see them going that route.

Except Universal's ExpressPass doesn't work the same as FastPass. It is basically a Priority Queue that you pay to use instead of the regular queue. Disney's FastPass is a return time that you select ahead of time like Universal's Virtual Queue that they use for Fallon and Fast and Furious, except you don't have to wait until day of and be in the park to make reservations.

I have never paid a separate fee to park at a hotel. We usually stay here on arrival night:

View attachment 319506
Fairly closes to DS and never paid for parking so it's not even everywhere in Lake Buena Vista.

I don't either. In Orlando, it seems to be limited to Deluxe Resorts, DoubleTree by Hilton, Universal's Loew's Hotels, and Disney Springs Hotels. The only places I've paid in Orlando/Lake Buena Vista are the Hilton Orlando (Deluxe Resort) and BW DS (Disney Springs Hotel). Disney fudged a bit when they said "industry standard" as have never seen a Value level motel in Orlando charge, save for maybe the Wyndham Garden Disney Springs. It is fairly common though for Deluxe level hotels.

As for charging for FastPasses, this fudging of the truth could indicate they would be open to doing the same for FastPasses - "It is industry standard to charge for them" ignoring that FastPass and ExpressPass and its equivalents are fundamentally different systems and not directly comparable (FastPass = Virtual Line != ExpressPass).

It wouldn't bother me if Disney charged for FP. It would likely significantly lower the wait times.

It's no secret that the introduction of FP+ made nearly every rides standby increase.

I don't go to universal as much as Disney but when I do, it's great how short the waits usually are. Gringotts and Forbidden journey had about a 40 min standby while single rider was 5 min, both would sit at an easily 100+ min wait at Disney. King Kong, 5 min wait, Disney would be 45+. Hulk, 30 min wait, 90+ at Disney.

I'd either keep FP's the way they are, or introduce a similar Express pass like universal if it was going to cut the lines down

Universal is less crowded in general. I was there Saturday since my pass expires today. From 7 AM until about 10 AM, it was crazy empty. MIB was walk-on single rider and I didn't see more than a few people in the standby line either. My second ride, there were only 3 people in the car that seats 6 (myself included) and the other 2 showed up at the last second. I almost had the car to myself. For ET, I only had to wait for the doors to open. It started to get more crowded around 10-11 AM. But, even then was probably not as crowded as Disney.

That said, I will not pay for ExpressPass. I would only get it if I was staying Deluxe and it was included with the room. So, for me, it is usually faster to do a Disney ride with FP+ than a Universal ride (without a Single Rider line) Standby. I've only done Minions twice and both times were before Rope Drop because the wait times are always so crazy. At Disney, I have ridden FoP 4 times in the afternoon/evening thanks to FP+. I would never be able to do that at Universal. Both systems have their advantages, but I like Disney's system better.

Keep in mind, part of the purpose of FP+ isn't to help you skip lines, its crowd management, moving people from more popular attractions to less popular attractions, keeping you out of line and spending money in the shops. If you made people pay for it ... you'd lose part of the big purpose of the system.

Also, if Disney went to a true ExpressPass style system it would fail miserably. There are way more people staying Deluxe or otherwise willing to pay to "skip the lines" at Disney than Universal. They'd have to cap the number sold (like Universal does for the All-Day EP) and they would sell out quickly. Plus, if you can use them on any ride, you'd see everyone in the FoP, FEA, 7DMT, and other such queues instead of spread out (your point above) among all the rides.

 

[tjkraz]

Sure I don't have to use FP, I can choose to wait in line with everybody else.

Or you can book fast passes on a day-by-day basis. Right now—at 1pm—there are still FPs available TODAY for nearly every WDW attraction: BTMR, Space, Splash, Test Track, Soarin, RNR, Tower of Terror, Star Tours, Everest, Kilimanjaro. That same experience isn’t replicated every day of the year, but more often than not, there are dozens of attractions available same-day. I’ve had days where I went thru my 3 pre-booked FPs and still secured 8-10 more.

You forgot to mention ADRs for specific dining, unless I just want to wing it and eat QS.

Universal doesn’t offer reservations 6 months out, but they do still allow for advance booking. Are you suggesting that Universal guests can dine at will without any advance planning whatsoever?

Not really sure what else Disney could do. Eliminate advance reservation and guests are either lining up at 8am to book same-day or they’d wait literally hours for a table on a first-come, first-served basis. It’s unfortunate that the likes of Be Our Guest and Plaza Restaurant can’t accommodate every willing diner. But there are dozens, perhaps hundreds of other alternatives scattered around WDW property.

 

[Liljo22]

You forgot to mention ADRs for specific dining, unless I just want to wing it and eat QS.

Except for the fact that other than Character meals, you can pretty much book most restaurants the day before.

Based off your posts, I am not sure you know how Disney works. My Disney trips are all very last minute and usually during the week after Christmas. I can get pretty much get most of my FP+ and still get good dining reservations a day or two before I go during the busiest week of the year.

 

[Scifidiner]

I think you're missing our point. I can go to US today with an express pass and not worry about ANY FPs, at the most I'll have to think a little ahead that day and make dining reservations. There is no restaurant in US that I have to make reservations for 60 days in advance. Again, I can show up to Universal and experience all they have to offer with little or no planning. The same cannot be said for WDW. This is not an indictment of WDW, it is what it is. Like it or not in order to do all you want at WDW you really need to start planning 60 days out, AND EVEN THEN you may not get to do everything you want to do (BOG). This does not mean I prefer US over WDW, it's just the reality of the situation.

 

[JaxDad]

Except for the fact that other than Character meals, you can pretty much book most restaurants the day before.

Based off your posts, I am not sure you know how Disney works. My Disney trips are all very last minute and usually during the week after Christmas. I can get pretty much get most of my FP+ and still get good dining reservations a day or two before I go during the busiest week of the year.

I certainly would not dispute what you are saying, especially since I have not been to the Disney parks in a few years, but it seems to go against the experiences of many. The TPAS forum (and others) seems to exist primarily for people desperately trying to get FP+ and ADRs or bemoaning the fact they could not get what they wanted.

 

[goofyintoronto]

Except Universal's ExpressPass doesn't work the same as FastPass. It is basically a Priority Queue that you pay to use instead of the regular queue. Disney's FastPass is a return time that you select ahead of time like Universal's Virtual Queue that they use for Fallon and Fast and Furious, except you don't have to wait until day of and be in the park to make reservations.

I realize they arent identical. The bottom line is they charge extra which allow folks to avoid waiting in long lines. At the end of the day, both methods achieve the same results. Minimal wait time. So im not surprised if Disney started charging for this since they're already charging for everything else.

 

[Liljo22]

I think you're missing our point. I can go to US today with an express pass and not worry about ANY FPs, at the most I'll have to think a little ahead that day and make dining reservations. There is no restaurant in US that I have to make reservations for 60 days in advance. Again, I can show up to Universal and experience all they have to offer with little or no planning. The same cannot be said for WDW. This is not an indictment of WDW, it is what it is. Like it or not in order to do all you want at WDW you really need to start planning 60 days out, AND EVEN THEN you may not get to do everything you want to do (BOG). This does not mean I prefer US over WDW, it's just the reality of the situation.

I get your point I just don't see it that way. My in-laws live 20 minutes from the gates and 10 minutes from UO. We decide the day before if we are going to go to a park and buy our tickets and book FP+ and ADRs during Christmas Break. We get to do everything we want with no problem and have a great time. Your point is that this is not possible.

I love UO. I was there opening week when nothing worked. Went almost every year to HHN while I lived in Florida. Went to UF and either drove down myself or went on a date function there all the time. I just see both Disney and UO having there advantages and disadvantages. UO's Express Pass is great but it does come with a price. We went the Thursday before Thanksgiving which was suppose to be slammed. I was worried about lines so I could either spend $400 on Express passes or book one night at RP for $250 to get the free pass. I didn't need the room since we were staying 10 minutes away but it was the cheaper option. Come that morning and its raining all day so most lines were 15-20 minutes. I pretty much wasted $250. Add that to the extra $160 we spent just so we can ride the train and I am spending $400 more than I would have spent if I went to Disney and got my FP+ for free.

 

[Princess_Lisa]

I hope they do start charging for FP+. Not that I will be buying them, well maybe a fe

w, but it will make stand by lines shorter. FP+ adds a lot of time to stand by lines.

I doubt it would have much effect for headliners. It might help with less popular rides that are already easy enough to get FPs for. If anything, I would expect a true Unlimited EP type system (like Universal has) to make the standby times for headliners much worse. The majority of people would head straight for FoP (AK), 7DMT (MK), SWGE (MGM), or FEA (Epcot) as soon as they got to the park. The line for FoP would extend to the entrance tapstiles and all of Dinoland would be walk on. At MGM, the line for SWGE would be all the way out the front gate and halfway to MK (I exaggerate, but you get the point) and there'd be noone in the shows. Disney needs to spread their guests out among the rides and different times of day to keep the lines somewhat manageable.

Since when is parking fee in a hotel industry standard??? So I randomly found on expedia some off site hotels in WDW, and they all have free self parking:

Baymont by Wyndham Celebration
Maingate Lakeside Resort
Seralago Hotel & Suites Main Gate East

I can find more, these are just the first 3 hotels that came up, and they all have free parking! I know Disney claim that parking fees are industry standard when they started this fee, but they are LYING!

Ramada Gateway
Rosen Pointe
Four Points by Sheraton I-Drive
Hampton Inn I-Drive
Wingate by Wyndham nearest Universal
Comfort Suites nearest Universal

and these are just the nicer ones (excluding Travelodge, Motel 6, Days Inn, and that La Quinta off I-Drive).

Of course its not the standard at your $50 per night I4 hotel/motel. It is the industry standard on your higher end hotels like Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt, Omni, etc. You will either have a parking fee, resort fee, or both at most of hotels comparable to Disney hotels. When staying at these hotels I factor parking fees into the per night rate when comparing pricing. Depending on the spread between valet and self, I make a decision which I will do. Disney is not lying but they are not trying to compare themselves to a level far below there own.

Disney Values are not even vaguely in the same ballpark as a high end hotel. They are equivalent to the Rosen Pointe (from my list above) but with a lot of themeing.

@Liljoe22 One could make an argument that Pop and the All Stars are your typical I4 motels.

They absolutely are. Just with a bunch of themeing. Take the giant sports gear away from All-Star Sports and it is just a higher end (that is not a Motel 6 or Days Inn) I-4 motel.

I could see them doing something like MaxPass at DL, where free FP will not go away, but those who pay a small premium will have an advantage in booking them more easily. It's already not a level playing field between onsite and offsite. I really don't think though that they will ever just get rid of the free version altogether though.

I can definitely see this.