bbc- sea world orca programme last night

I haven't seen it, I've a feeling it'll just make me sad.

The whole animal/entertainment thing never bothered me until my last SW trip. For the first time ever, I just felt a little uncomfortable. Maybe it's an age thing!
 
I just watched this on Iplayer and to be honest they didn't say much that surprised me.

SeaWorld is a Huge COMPANY which is there for the purposes of making money.

To boycott it on the basis of this show is futile, and potentially lead to a worse situation.

If by some miracle seaworld was boycotted into to bankruptcy by protesting "customers" it would be the animals that would inevitable suffer, the majority of them could not be "let free" They would be put to sleep or sold to other marine centres with even less experience that seaworld. Example that place in the Canary Islands.

Any animal that is confined isn't going to be happy about it, especially one cruelly snatched from its mother, but the 80's was a whole different culture. Things happened then that would NEVER happen now. We just reap the "benefits"

That is not to say that I in anyway condone the treatment of these animals, but it is what it is. The trainers do everything they can within the remits of what they have. People become complacent its a sad fact whether dog, horse or Orca!

The show is also only told for the perspective of the protestors. Any decent argument requires participation from both sides. And normally someone playing devils advocate this show had neither!!

SeaWorld is no different to any of the other zoos and marine centres its just more famous.
 
Oh yes, there's nothing like a one-sided, agenda-driven, piece of propaganda to get everyone ranting! :rolleyes1

It's really a ying and yang thing. And I can see your point but seaworlds propaganda seems to me way worse.

I thought cast members where marine biologists from what I remember from there show that was before believe "it takes years of training to become a seaworld trainer"
Turns out if you want to be a seaworld trainer all you have to do is two things swim well and look good.

There was an actual marine biologist in the film his life was very different from an trainer at seaworld his philosophy STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM THE ORCAS.

The most amusing clip in the film was where they intercut the park tour guide with the facts of an expert

Tour guide: orcas tend to live a lot longer here because of all the veterinary care whales in the wild live 25-30 years.
Expert: it only took us half a dozen years to figure out whales live just as long as humans do some 80 to 100 years.
Tour guide: 35% of whales in the wild feature a curve in that dorsal fin they have.
Experts: all the males at seaworld have a collapsed dorsal fin whereas only 1 present do in the wild.
 
Seaworld didn't comment in the film but did issue this:
A Response to Blackfish
By Michael Scarpuzzi, Vice President of Zooligical Operations for SeaWorld San Diego
Shortly after 1:30 p.m. on Feb. 24, 2010, a SeaWorld Orlando trainer lost her life in a tragic accident involving one of the parks killer whales. The death of Dawn Brancheau was an occasion of almost unbearable sadness for those closest to Dawn  her family, friends and colleagues at SeaWorld. I was honored to know Dawn and count myself among those SeaWorld team members deeply affected by her loss.
Dawns death has been the subject of thousands of articles, broadcast news stories, blogs, books, and now a feature film called Blackfish. Many of these accounts trade in the details of Dawns death in graphic detail. They do so not to inform but, rather, regrettably, because of the desire to sensationalize. The three years since Dawns death have seen the emergence of individuals who have chosen not to honor her memory, but rather to use the events of Feb. 24, 2010 to advance their own interests. Some seek commercial gain. Others seek to forward a political or philosophical agenda. Still others appear to be engaged in self-promotion.
But anyone approaching this subject in good faith must recognize a simple fact: Our staff has interacted with killer whales  for veterinary care, training, shows, educational presentations, husbandry, exercise, play and enrichment  hundreds of times a day for nearly 50 years. The tragedy of Dawns death cannot and has not been ignored, but neither should the literally millions of safe interactions we have had with killer whales over that span of time. Blackfish focuses on a handful of incidents over our long history at the exclusion of everything else. Not a single interview with a guest who was inspired and enriched by their experience with killer whales at SeaWorld. Not one visitor who left SeaWorld more aware of the need to preserve the world around them. Not one word about the thousands of ill, orphaned and injured animals rescued by SeaWorld or the millions of dollars we dedicate to supporting conservation and research. There is no acknowledgment anywhere in the film of the great things SeaWorld does every day or the simple fact that our animals are healthy and passionately cared for.
I started at Sea World in 1975 and have witnessed the growth and changes that come with a company that is dedicated to understanding these magnificent animals. We have collected invaluable information about these animals that could not be obtained from observation in the wild. In the three years since Dawns death, we have again made significant changes at SeaWorld. We have altered how we care for, display and train these extraordinary animals. We have changed the facilities, equipment and procedures at our killer whale habitats. The care and educational presentation of these animals at SeaWorld has been made safer than ever before. Does Blackfish inform its viewers of that fact? No, it does not. And by that omission the film reveals itself not as a work of objective documentary filmmaking, but rather as something closer to propaganda. As we have said many times, there is simply no higher priority for us than the safety of our guests and staff and the welfare of our animals.
We understand that there will always be individuals and groups opposed to the care of animals in zoos and aquariums. We recognize that we must defend what we do and the manner in which we do it. Blackfish, like other works driven by the same agenda, ignores the extraordinary benefits to conservation, scientific research and education of Americas zoo and aquariums. But through it all SeaWorld remains the worlds most respected marine zoological institution. Our parks are staffed with skilled and caring zoological professionals, all of whom deserve to have their work celebrated, not dishonored by things like Blackfish.
Despite what the makers of this film may suggest, SeaWorld is the kind of organization that draws dedicated and passionate people like Dawn Brancheau. These are the men and women who have built SeaWorld into an extraordinary place, one that provides inspiring, enriching and educational experiences to more than 11 million people each year. That, not the inaccurate and shamefully misleading account in Blackfish, is what SeaWorld really is.

They do spend a lot of money on rescue & rehabilitation and even partner with Disney on the manatee rescues - so that's not a lie.

I have to documentary on sky+ to watch however from everything I have read about it I don't think it will change my views. It was made by a protest group. Had it been made by an independent group or organisation such as the BBC I might give it more credibility for being completely factual. Sensationalism and picking what they want you to see will have come into it even if they claim it is a balanced view.

Are Seaworld perfect? No, probably not however a lot of things happened a long while a ago and you can't change the past. And last time I checked you can not get a several ton animal to do anything it didn't want to: be it a horse or a dolphin or a whale.
 
I watched it last night.

I haven't been to seaworld for years probably since 2003. I didn't enjoy it the last time we did go I thought the park felt a bit run down.

When I was younger I did think wow their jobs are amazing I would love to do that.

We won't be going any time soon yes what they do for some animals is amazing but I would rather donate the money to cause and they stopped the with the whales.

The capturing of the whales and the removing of the baby whale was very sad and that whale crying for her baby was heart breaking.
 
I just watched this on Iplayer and to be honest they didn't say much that surprised me.

SeaWorld is a Huge COMPANY which is there for the purposes of making money.

To boycott it on the basis of this show is futile, and potentially lead to a worse situation.

If by some miracle seaworld was boycotted into to bankruptcy by protesting "customers" it would be the animals that would inevitable suffer, the majority of them could not be "let free" They would be put to sleep or sold to other marine centres with even less experience that seaworld. Example that place in the Canary Islands.

Any animal that is confined isn't going to be happy about it, especially one cruelly snatched from its mother, but the 80's was a whole different culture. Things happened then that would NEVER happen now. We just reap the "benefits"

That is not to say that I in anyway condone the treatment of these animals, but it is what it is. The trainers do everything they can within the remits of what they have. People become complacent its a sad fact whether dog, horse or Orca!

The show is also only told for the perspective of the protestors. Any decent argument requires participation from both sides. And normally someone playing devils advocate this show had neither!!

SeaWorld is no different to any of the other zoos and marine centres its just more famous.

Spot on!
 
Watched last night and it wasnt as bad as i expected, i thought they would show the deaths etc. The baby being taken away from its mother was awful and i doubt it was a one off. I also think its bad how many accidents etc sea world have coverd up over the years.

Makes me glad we didnt end up going and i doubt i ever will, even if the rides look awesome.
 
An interesting fact I just found on U-tube, was sure I had seen footage at some point of the trainer being pulled in by the hair. I have! As confirmed by eye witnesses who had the misfortune to video the whole thing.

Yet the documentary claimed she was pulled in during the enrichment where she was cuddling up to him and it was her arm he pulled her in by.

They also stated that the "spotter" had lied when he said she had been pulled in by the hair.

Funny that these eye witnesses never appeared in this documentary. One would think they would be ideal if they could refute all that SeaWorld had claimed!!

Don't get me wrong, Orcas are clearly far to be big to be confined it was is basically a giant swimming pool. But I just don't buy into the whole its all seaworlds fault.

With regards to Tilikum being removed from him Mother as a baby this is true, and so were many other whales. But it was a different time then. It wasn't illegal, although unarguably immoral. They were working within the remits of the law at the time (although not the sinking of the other whales that died) Although I highly doubt someone from seaworld was actually on the boat, so it seems unlikely that this instruction came from them.

I just don't think you can blame seaworld for the evolution of what it is acceptable.

Just to be clear I DO NOT think what they did was right, but I am open to seeing both sides of the argument and don't think boycotting seaworld is the answer. I think it would be hypocritical of me to then visit Busch Gardens and Animal Kingdom on the basis that those animals aren't as smart as a whale so it doesn't matter as much!!
 
We have been going to Seaworld since 2009. On all of my trips before the death of Dawn, I would sit there and cry. I never actually knew whether I was crying because the show was amazing or whether I was crying because I felt sad for the whales.

In October this year, we visited Sea World as usual and that night when we got back to the Hotel we watched Blackfish. It made both me and my Husband upset.
Since that, we couldn't face going back and doubt we ever will.

I think what upset me the most was the babies being taken from their Mums and the footage of the Mums crying for them!

I'm still really torn because I know they do rescue some animals and do lots of good things. But I can't shake the overriding feeling of sadness for the poor whales being held in captivity.
 
I have seen blackfish it hasn't changed my mind about going to sea world. They do amazing work everyday rescuing and caring for these. I guess they would not have the money to do this without this park. I would like to know how people feel when they go to disney if they feel sea world is wrong for keeping these whales, dolphins in captivity. Disney also have dolphins in Epcot and why is it wrong for one park and not the other.
 
Ive thought long and hard about this, and i can't se any difference between Sea World, Disney or Knowsley Safari Park & Chester Zoo, where i have spent many a day at as a child and a parent.To boycott Sea World i would have to do the same for the others,as they are all out to make a profit and all the animals are held against their will,and I'm sure if we investigated them too we would find a skeleton or two in their closets!.If i only did it for Sea World would just be hypocritical & pointless.
 
Seaworld didn't comment in the film but did issue this:


They do spend a lot of money on rescue & rehabilitation and even partner with Disney on the manatee rescues - so that's not a lie.

I have to documentary on sky+ to watch however from everything I have read about it I don't think it will change my views. It was made by a protest group. Had it been made by an independent group or organisation such as the BBC I might give it more credibility for being completely factual. Sensationalism and picking what they want you to see will have come into it even if they claim it is a balanced view.

Are Seaworld perfect? No, probably not however a lot of things happened a long while a ago and you can't change the past. And last time I checked you can not get a several ton animal to do anything it didn't want to: be it a horse or a dolphin or a whale.

I completely agree with you, I read the book 'Death at SeaWorld' which was similar and definitely had an agenda. I have also gone to SeaWorld many times over the years and seen the manatees they have rescued. When marine animals are in distress, SeaWorld seems to be the main place they call for a rescue. Yes, it is a theme park, but it also does good.
 
I watched this last night, even though we are going in December. It was horrible but actually a bit of an eye-opener.

Maybe I was naive, I hadnt really thought about how they "got" the whales, I guess I had just assumed they were all born there.

And I couldnt believe how many deaths and incidents had happened that I hadn't heard about! I was so shocked when they showed video of some of the incidents.

The trainers they interviewed obviously loved the whales, and as one guy said "If I left, who would look after the whales?"

X
 
I watched this last night, even though we are going in December. It was horrible but actually a bit of an eye-opener. Maybe I was naive, I hadnt really thought about how they "got" the whales, I guess I had just assumed they were all born there. And I couldnt believe how many deaths and incidents had happened that I hadn't heard about! I was so shocked when they showed video of some of the incidents. The trainers they interviewed obviously loved the whales, and as one guy said "If I left, who would look after the whales?" X

I totally agree with you.

I hadn't ever thought about how the whales got there. For some reason I thought they were rescued like the manatees etc.
 
I watched the documentary and – while it was pretty bias – it does seem to present a strong case that Orca’s should not be in captivity.

The size and scale of them is difficult to cope with and TBH , even if SeaWorld do the best they can, they can't guarantee that the Orca’s are happy or not dangerous to Trainers.
 
I haven't been to sea world in years but was going to go in May next yr,
I turned on the tv while in disney in October and this came on but I'd missed half of it,

It was shocked and saddened like many others and could not believe it when they said Dawn was to blame!

That being said I know that I will go to seaworld in may as we don't pay being military the boys have never been and are desperate to go, and if I boycotted SW then like pp said id have to do the same with many other places I visit, including Disney due to the dolphins at Epcot and all the animals at AK plus AKL where we have stayed.

Yes they look like they are amazingly well looked after at Disneys AK and they have quite a bit of land but there still not free in the wild! A d those dolphins have quite a small tank.
 
Oh yes, there's nothing like a one-sided, agenda-driven, piece of propaganda to get everyone ranting!
:rolleyes1

I couldn't agree more, and that's why I refuse to watch the program. I do not like being told how to feel on an issue by a heavily biased documentary, I will do my own research and come to my own conclusion.

I have seen blackfish it hasn't changed my mind about going to sea world. They do amazing work everyday rescuing and caring for these. I guess they would not have the money to do this without this park. I would like to know how people feel when they go to disney if they feel sea world is wrong for keeping these whales, dolphins in captivity. Disney also have dolphins in Epcot and why is it wrong for one park and not the other.

That is an excellent point, and one that came into my mind too. Disney do a similar thing, yet nobody's pointing fingers at them. They keep several animals in captivity over a theme park and AKL.

Seaworld didn't comment in the film but did issue this:


They do spend a lot of money on rescue & rehabilitation and even partner with Disney on the manatee rescues - so that's not a lie.

I have to documentary on sky+ to watch however from everything I have read about it I don't think it will change my views. It was made by a protest group. I remember seeing a thread about it on the main Community Boards a few months ago. Had it been made by an independent group or organisation such as the BBC I might give it more credibility for being completely factual. Sensationalism and picking what they want you to see will have come into it even if they claim it is a balanced view.

Are Seaworld perfect? No, probably not however a lot of things happened a long while a ago and you can't change the past. And last time I checked you can not get a several ton animal to do anything it didn't want to: be it a horse or a dolphin or a whale.

Again, couldn't agree more. This documentary was not made by the BBC, it was a group out to specifically prove their own point using information and views biased to their own cause, therefore, anything presented will be one sided and you should do your own research to get a complete balanced view.
 
I went to sea world once as a child but have never been back since, I watched blackfish and it was sad viewing, personally I have written to disney about the dolphins and not had much response although saying well other places keep these animals too does not make sea world right in doing so - two wrongs don't make a right.

If you love sea world will the documentary change your mind possibly not but to watch it gives you an informed option when discussing the film with others surely? If sea world were to bring out a film in response I would watch it so that I could possibly understand both sides of the argument.

There are many arguments for and against zoos/wildlife parks - the keeping of endangered species for example but sea world is not a zoo the animals there are not just to be observed in an as close to a natural environment as is possible in an enclosed space they are there to do tricks to entertain people.

But we are all able to make up our own minds and I would never tell anyone to not go, each to their own :)
 
I love SeaWorld. I always have. I think they do an amazing job with certain aspects of the conservation work they do.

The comparison between SeaWorld and Zoo's is there to be made. There is nothing natural about an iceburg in central London. Or a rainforest in Florida. It is impossible to replicate an animals natural surroundings, although zoos do a darn sight better job that some places.

Orca's seem to be especially kept in "unnatural" areas, because there is nothing natural about a 12000lb orca in a giant swimming pool. However, as they were put there some time ago, they can simply be let go as this documentary suggested. Most of them in SeaWorld were born there and therefore have no ability to "hunt", they would die very quickly.

You cant turn back the clock 30/40 years by saying its not right to have them in captivity. They are there so SeaWorld has no option but to care for them in the best possible way.

The show has created many a "orca lover" - I had very little interest in these beautiful animals before I saw this show. They raise masses of awareness through this show and the specific animals there are used to these activities and probably enjoy the interactive nature of the process. Whether its right or wrong.
 

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