AP sales…

[Ms Bibbidi]

I'm not sure if I understand what you are saying. But if its locals get a discount due to traffic and issues like that, why do people that live hours away still get that discount?

I was just wondering that . I have no idea at all if you did DVC, resort rooms, etc by 3 what that number would be.

Attendance at WDW was about 58 million in 2019. So, use that number.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Here ya go. I Actually thought you had posted in that thread but maybe not.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/resort-only-major-gates-ap-would-you-buy.3872932/

Yes. 4th page.

 

[Miffy]

I'm still thinking about that $3K price tag, @Ms Bibbidi. Perhaps it seems reasonable to you because you could afford it, but for me that would be the end of getting an AP and definitely the end of frequent WDW trips.

I recently paid $1,175 (and change) to renew my Platinum, which is now an Incredi. If that had been $3K instead of $1,175, it would have been 2.5x as much.

I take 2 (sometimes, rarely 3) trips a year and have maybe 16 park days total. Right now that comes out to ~$73 per day.

I just checked UT. A 9-day hopper is approx $673. Double that-say I spend 18 park days a year, not 16--and it's $1,346 in park tickets. That's $171 more than I spent on my AP renewal. So I've theoretically saved $171, assuming I do spend 18 park days a year.

And maybe I'm saving another $50 in merch--that's probably an exaggeration--and $125 (also probably overstated) in food. Now I'm ahead a whopping $296.

It's not like I'm saving a fortune.

But at $3,000 for an AP, I would be losing $1,654 right off the top, assuming park admission stays the same. I cannot believe they're going to start charging $200/day for a multi-day trip, although of course they can do anything they want. So if they did start charging that, buying a $3K AP would save me $600 in park admission.

But I would never buy that, so I would be saving the entire cost of a WDW vacation. And a very very bad taste about WDW greed would be left in my former Disney-loving mouth.

I'm already unamused by how much the prices at the resorts have gone up while there's all but no maid service. Last December my sister and I had a the-pandemic's-over (yet it wasn't) splurge and spent approx $700/night at AKL and had to BEG for someone to bring us towels. We took out our own trash and had to avoid tripping over all the trash that was piled up by guests in the hallways. Our room was serviced exactly once during our stay. For $700/night. This was not a DVC stay. This was a resort hotel room. Cash. I do not own DVC.

OK, that's enough. I just get concerned when I see posts like the $3K per AP post, because I vividly remember seeing all those "they have to start charging for FP+" posts and then it happened. Those upcharges aren't killing my WDW vacation, because I'm not coming with a family and also we've downgraded where we stay to make up for the G+ and ILL$ money we spend.

But is someone from Disney reading these boards? Taking our suggestions? Seeing what the climate's like? Hey, gee, I read this thread where someone said how about just charging $3K for an AP! What a great idea. Let's do that.

--the end--

 

[ScubaCat]

Disney on site hotels have 23,052 rooms
DVC on site has 4,985
This does not count Swan and Dolphin

https://www.couponingtodisney.com/how-many-resort-rooms-are-at-disney-world/

It's dropped quite a bit since they've converted many hotel rooms to DVC. Also All Star Music has converted a bunch of rooms to family suites, each one of which used to be two regular rooms.

 

[RivShore]

I don't think they need to cater to locals any more. They should get rid of any local benefits, then let prices stabilize, and perhaps not go up as much. With so much demand, there is no reason to cater to locals except for political gains.

You are assuming demand will remain this high forever? Once revenge travel slows and the recession hits, demand will slow and they will be happy to have those locals back.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Miffy, first I want to say, it is not my intention to hurt you or your feelings -- or anybody here. I am not a Disney insider and I never speak to anybody that is -- that I know of -- although I have wondered about a couple of posters on Disboards.

But, when comparing, to get a true comparison of prices and how much discount the annual passes give, you just look at standard, one-day park hopper tickets.
Annual passes are nothing more than bundled discounts for gate admission with hopper, parking, discounts on merch and food etc.
Multi-day tickets are also nothing more than bundle gate admission with hopper -- without parking, discounts on merch and food etc.
To get a true comparison, skip the already bundled discounts and skip the Florida resident or military tickets. Just use standard, normal, one-day park hopper tickets.
Comparing bundled discount to bundled discount is important when comparing discounts, but not when determining the original discount.

Now, the price for that ticket -- a standard, one-day parkhopper (no water parks or photo pass add-ons) is currently $174 per ticket for September 14, 2022.

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/admission/tickets/theme-parks/

For the high holiday period at the end of December it is $224 per day.
So, Miffy has an Incredi-pass and she can go to the parks during the high holiday end of year period. Miffy paid $1,104 renewal price for the Incredi-pass plus 6.5% sales tax for a total of $1,175.76. She usually spends 16 days in the parks so that averages out to be $69 per day plus tax (don't include tax in the rate of discount). But, this year, Miffy has only spent 11 days in the parks so far and wants to go another five days between Christmas and New Years. The daily ticket price is $224 per day. So, $69/$224 is 0.3080. 1.00 minus 0.3080 is a 69.2% discount. Wow! A 69.2% discount! Right smack dab in the middle of a high demand period! But, as long as Miffy reserved her DVC or qualifying resort hotel rooms well in advance and made her park reservations in that package, she can get those dates and use her annual pass to enter the parks.

Now, it really does not benefit you to compare a 9 day multi-ticket discount unless that is exactly how you "do" Disney -- in 9 day trips. Did you see the amount of multi-day cost per day gets more dramatic the longer you stay in one trip? That's because not many people do that. Most people do the three to 5 or 6 day trips. Locals who live nearby do one day at a time. The most common guest who does the big 10 to 14 day trips are the Europeans because of how their vacation time is structured.

Anyway, that is what Disney sees about the annual passholder and the amount of discount. They compare it to the standard ticket prices. They also do the calculations for multi-day ticket entries. Bottom line, there are many prices being paid at those gates on any given day. It is not hard for the family from Denver who pays standard ticket rates and comes every 5 years to out-spend passholder on a per day comparison. (40% higher) But, in a year, the passholder will spend more; not Buffalo Bill and his family from Colorado.

A $3k annual pass might mean you only get multi-day tickets and come once a year. It might mean you gather more money and just pay the freight. That will be your choice.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

They couldn’t call it an AP because people have a notion of what they are but could sell, as you say a yearly pass that has X days.

For example, a 30 day pass good for one year. I would even still pay the same thing I pay for a Sorcerer Pass for that!

A 30 day pass for Sorceror pass prices sounds way too cheap right now.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

A 30 day pass for Sorceror pass prices sounds way too cheap right now.

At Sorcerer renewal prices of $764 plus tax averaged over 30 days, it comes to $25.47 per gate admission. Compare that to today’s single day park hopper ticket of $174 plus tax. I agree, Anna. Too cheap.

However, SandiSW did suggest a 20% discount. So take 20% off $174 is $139.2 per day for a park hopper gate entry. Now take that times 30 days and we get $4,176. So, I guess my estimate of $3,000 would be an excellent bargain for SandiSW!

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

There is a way for people who do not have an annual pass to get one — now. Move to Florida. Get a Florida driver’s license and Florida bank accounts with a Florida residence address on your banking debit/credit cards. Then buy a Pixie and activate it.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

You forgot to factor in an intangible in your hypothetical $3k AP. The bad press it's going to get from literally thousands upon thousands of disney and DVC loyalists who no longer will be. Not only that, they're going to be bad-mouthing the company to anybody that will listen. Factor a dollar amount into your equations for that and we'll talk.

I'm not sure why we're all getting so worked up. $3k for an AP, ANY AP; is ridiculous, and will never happen in my lifetime. I think you just threw that number out there to get a rise out of people. Congratulations on that. They'll scratch the program all together before they ever let it get that high because the executives and the marketing team are smarter than that. It's an exercise in fun to talk about it, but in reality, again; ain't gonna happen. No way. No how.

 

[New Mouse]

It's a nice thought for the customer but why would they when they know that you will pay full price for tickets if forced to? If you're DVC, then you have already committed to coming to FL or renting your points to someone who will attend the parks. There's no reason to give you a discount (except to make you feel like Disney cares about your business).

The discount was actually intended to market dvc, not reward those who already purchased it. We were just an unavoidable side effect of that marketing strategy. Not joking.

 

[Sandisw]

We discussed this in my thread about this very thing a few months ago. But we're back to that points v. days thing I brought up a few posts back. 30 sounds fine to you. I suspect your points hold some bounds that keep you, for all practical purposes; under 30 days per year. But what about the family that has enough points to go 40 days per year? Drawing the line with staying on property should be constraint enough. That ties a lot of money up in the stay. It needs to be essentially an incredi-theft pass tied stringently to on-site stays. In my opinion.

My points could get me more way more than 30 if I did studios on solo trips more That was an example anyway.

My point was more for pricing and the idea of onsite with yearly X days.

I am willing to entertain a product that is not a traditional AP if in the end is cheaper than multi day tickets.

 

[Sandisw]

Would you pay $2,550 for that? That is only $85 per day and holidays that are now $224 per day ticketed -park hopper are not blocked out. So about 50% to 65% discount? I am just talking compare how often you go use the parks as your personal playground and how much discount off regular park hopper prices. You said 20% but see, that is not enough to get to the pricing you really want to use.

There needs to be a significantly higher number of days to get to the break even point comparing to one day park hoppers. Do not just compare to 5 to 10 day multi tickets because those are already bulk ticket discounts. If you want to talk discounts, do it from standard park hoppers.

This is where we may differ. I don’t think you go with one day pricing because that is not what happens with an onsite guest.

For me, we do lots of short trips and my guests normally buy a 3 day park hoppers. Runs an average of $480 per person in todays pricing depending…don’t travel on holidays so not counting those days.

Now I am retired, I will be going on about 6 trips a year. So, $2880. Give me 20% off and I am at $2304.

So, would I pay $2500 for a pass instead for the year that give more days than i mention above? No because if any of those trips don’t happen, then I wasted money.

Would I pay $1500? Most likely. because then I would add back in the trips I do now on check out day for an hour or two that I wouldn’t with a 3 day hopper.

Obviously, current pricing of the Sorcerer has me paying about $30 a day…based on my current use. So $1500 would raise it to $50/ day based on actual use.

That would be worth the risk for me to save $1300 a year against non discounted park hoppers.

That is why there won’t be any one solution sans what they have now and start selling again.

 

[Sandisw]

A 30 day pass for Sorceror pass prices sounds way too cheap right now.

Well it’s currently giving me 300 plus days so I’d be paying the same price and losing 90% of my access.

So, I don’t think it’s cheap at all in relation to current AP pricing.

 

[Sandisw]

At Sorcerer renewal prices of $764 plus tax averaged over 30 days, it comes to $25.47 per gate admission. Compare that to today’s single day park hopper ticket of $174 plus tax. I agree, Anna. Too cheap.

However, SandiSW did suggest a 20% discount. So take 20% off $174 is $139.2 per day for a park hopper gate entry. Now take that times 30 days and we get $4,176. So, I guess my estimate of $3,000 would be an excellent bargain for SandiSW!

So, right now Id pay $3/day on my pass If I went 300 days. Making it a 30 day pass raises my daily price $22/day.

Of course, one day ticket comparisons make sense when you go only one day at a time…but that is not how onsite and DVC guests do it…so savings on something you wouldn’t be spending isn’t savings.

Since Disney sells multi-day tickets which cost less per day, then that is what one should compare to because that one day price isn’t paid by most people.

And,yes, I realize this is why they don’t want to sell APs…but I’d be shocked to see Disney offer them again and raise the price 300%.

It would make more sense to keep the price more reasonably and cut number of days. No PR nightmare.

Look at it another way. If they decided to sell a $900 pass that gets you up to 50 admissions a year vs the current Sorcerer pass that was sold..and is being renewed. which has over 330 admission, they could actually sell 6 of those new passes instead just the one and keep the number of spots in that AP bucket…the same.

So, you went from collecting $900 from one person, to collecting $5400 from 6…and still have the total admissions sold at 300….seems like a win win to me…

 

[Sandisw]

There is a way for people who do not have an annual pass to get one — now. Move to Florida. Get a Florida driver’s license and Florida bank accounts with a Florida residence address on your banking debit/credit cards. Then buy a Pixie and activate it.

As long as one has proof of utilities or recent mortgage, etc, no license is needed.

They allow those who own property or rent long term to qualify.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Something else we haven't taken into account that the reservation system has done is guaranteed disney MYW ticket money months in advance. This used to only be guaranteed from AP sales, as day guests could simply purchase their admissions when they got to a main gate. That gave a value to the AP guest to disney that was very different from a day guest. Not only was the AP money guaranteed, it was already in the bank. That has significant value on the books that simply isn't there anymore. I have always believed this piece has way more to do with AP sales and the reservations system still being in place that we give it credit for.

Never underestimate the time value of money in the bank.

 

[New Mouse]

Thinking the current pricing is too cheap misses the point of even having a pass product from Disney's side. An annual pass is meant to bring in merch and food and beverage revenue In exchange for discounted admission. With that you absolutely need to have outliers like people who done 364 with a bag lunch and then also people who come once or twice a year and never get the value from their pass. It's how a company like AMC Is able to still offer unlimited movies.

If Disney didn't have an annual pass, they would be getting $0.00 from me at not just Disney but also out in the real world. Why? Because I invested in their product with DVC.

Sure, there is someone in line who will buy DVC from me, but eventually enough people selling leads to a drop in resale prices and devalues DVC.

Trying to milk every customer for every dollar they have all at once is a recipe on how to destroy a company. Great way to pump your stock numbers short term though!

 

[DeeBee3]

I don't think anyone needs to worry about prices right now. After yesterday's economic news and the fact that we are in a deep recession, Disney has a lot more to worry about than withholding APs. Average citizens can barely get their gas and groceries so the numbers of people flocking to WDW will sharply decline very soon.

Yes, some people will be able to afford and that's good for them, but the hordes of people enjoying over the summer and other holiday times will sharply decline.

Mark this on the calendar, folks!

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I don't think anyone needs to worry about prices right now. After yesterday's economic news and the fact that we are in a deep recession, Disney has a lot more to worry about than withholding APs. Average citizens can barely get their gas and groceries so the numbers of people flocking to WDW will sharply decline very soon.

Yes, some people will be able to afford and that's good for them, but the hordes of people enjoying over the summer and other holiday times will sharply decline.

Mark this on the calendar, folks!

You ain't wrong.