AP sales…

[lowlight]

I don’t understand why anyone would purchase a product that tells you upfront they don’t not tie ownership interest into the park access.

Yes, having accommodations close to the parks are nice but they are not mutually exclusive of each other. Buy the tickets to visit or just use your accommodations else where.

I don’t really see lots of people selling DVC just because they can’t access the parks due to lack of AP’s. Tickets are available for purchase and yes they are very expensive if we use them like we would an AP.

Life is all about perspective.

 

[Skywalker3]

We'd be very interested in at least a weekday pass. Just ANY AP would be good. Still holding off buying tickets for our June trip, but will need to make park reservations soon. We have 2 trips planned this year, but not having APs, will affect our decisions. June trip is DD's graduation trip, and bringing a friend. DH and DS will not go if there are no APs. For Oct trip,will shorten if we have to buy regular tickets. Already have APs for Universal, so will shift there if need be some of the time. We've only traveled to Disney w APs since buying DVC in 2011, We dont' want to do Disney with regular, limited number of days. That's just our preference. We'll just go elsewhere. we only have 1 large DVC contract, so not looking to sell...yet. We've never rented out points, but will be looking into that option if APs don't come back. Currently not interested in WDW resort only trips. Have used points at Vero, and hope to at HH, but we'll have way too many points if not frequenting WDW as much. Hopefully they'll offer some sort of AP very soon!

 

[Sandisw]

I don’t think myself or anyone in this thread has said we’re (currently) angry. Disillusioned & a bit disgusted maybe.

There is the sale and then the reality of the product for sure, but then they’ll be just another timeshare whose sales pitch rests heavily on geographic location to the parent company’s theme parks…. Which again brings us to the product they’re marketing and access to those theme parks.

Perhaps the VGF resort studios reflect the new mindset (short visit, drop as much cash as you can and get out) as much as their higher ups’ public disdain for passholders. If that’s the new direction, then it is what it is. There’s a reason they’re highlighting the 1 & 2 bds at VGF 1 to sell VGF2 though….

ETA I think WDW in general is having a bit of an identity crisis.

I wasn’t referring to anyone or any specific post here, but there are plenty of posts here and elsewhere where owners are angry about it and decisions that have been made…some, like this, which has nothing to do with DVC specifically.

That was more my point. We all like getting the extras but we also know that it could change down the road, and to an extent, that we may have to make hard decisions about our trips to WDW.

I admit that I am unique in that I enjoy the area and the resorts as much as I enjoy the parks so if I didn’t have an AP, I would adjust..no more popping in to MK just to take a picture with the castle and shop at Emporium.

 

[lowlight]

I wasn’t referring to anyone or any specific post here, but there are plenty of posts here and elsewhere where owners are angry about it and decisions that have been made…some, like this, which has nothing to do with DVC specifically.

That was more my point. We all like getting the extras but we also know that it could change down the road, and to an extent, that we may have to make hard decisions about our trips to WDW.

I admit that I am unique in that I enjoy the area and the resorts as much as I enjoy the parks so if I didn’t have an AP, I would adjust..no more popping in to MK just to take a picture with the castle and shop at Emporium.

Do you think the existence of the Gold Pass led to an increase of, if not contracts- at the very least, DVC points sold? Disney is like the person in the club selling the champagne rooms apparently.

 

[Madame]

We'd be very interested in at least a weekday pass. Just ANY AP would be good. Still holding off buying tickets for our June trip, but will need to make park reservations soon. We have 2 trips planned this year, but not having APs, will affect our decisions. June trip is DD's graduation trip, and bringing a friend. DH and DS will not go if there are no APs. For Oct trip,will shorten if we have to buy regular tickets. Already have APs for Universal, so will shift there if need be some of the time. We've only traveled to Disney w APs since buying DVC in 2011, We dont' want to do Disney with regular, limited number of days. That's just our preference. We'll just go elsewhere. we only have 1 large DVC contract, so not looking to sell...yet. We've never rented out points, but will be looking into that option if APs don't come back. Currently not interested in WDW resort only trips. Have used points at Vero, and hope to at HH, but we'll have way too many points if not frequenting WDW as much. Hopefully they'll offer some sort of AP very soon!

This sounds similar to us. My plan is to do more couples trips bc DH hates the parks and loves the golf courses… I see this as a win (less money on tix = more trips)

I’m in several non-DVC FB pages and just in the last few weeks there is post after post concerning crazy ticket prices - many of the posters are once in a lifers, some off siters. I don’t know that we’d have ever visited multiple times let alone purchased DVC had ticket prices been so outrageous in 2014.

I don’t really know what the solution is since the parks are so packed, but I miss being able to just spend an hour or two in the parks and the rest of the day lounging at the pool or visiting DS. Now I feel like I need my money’s worth & genie (if you choose to purchase to try to limit park time), ties you to the park all day with the randomly assigned return times.

Maybe an after 4 pass for DVC, or onsite stay only pass - either one of those would appeal to many of us. It just seems they’re disinterested in providing us options after selling many of us on the Disney experience. If I’d bought direct, I would be very regretful…

 

[Sandisw]

Do you think the existence of the Gold Pass led to an increase of, if not contracts- at the very least, DVC points sold? Disney is like the person in the club selling the champagne rooms apparently.

Of course there are some people who bought knowing that the gold AP was offered,

I added my adult kids in 2019 when I bought RIV so they would be blue card owners and have access to that AP.

But I also knew it could go away anytime and so far, only 3 of 9 of us have gotten them. I am certainly not angry about it because I was aware of it and I knew that DVC has no control over any ticket offerings.

So, if they never return, then we gambled and won’t end up with the long term savings we had hoped we would get. They will still get whatever perks there are and that 20% discount on merchandise and 10% off meals most places will be something that they wouldn’t have had we not added them.

Again, I completely get frustration and disappointment but I am just not one who blames Disney for having given me a benefit that I knew was not guaranteed and now find it gone.

 

[wnielsen1]

I admit that I am unique in that I enjoy the area and the resorts as much as I enjoy the parks so if I didn’t have an AP, I would adjust..no more popping in to MK just to take a picture with the castle and shop at Emporium.

You are not unique on this point.

 

[New Mouse]

Sure, they bring up the potential for perks. However, you are given the membership perks document and have to sign off on it when you are buying as part of the closing documents,

Those do clearly say these are incidental and not guaranteed. So, no one buys without being given the information in plain sight and not buried deep in terms and conditions.

I get disappointment and frustration and all that, but I certainly don’t think people should be angry because they were given time to read it all and know what they were getting,

It is why there is the 10 day cancellation given via FL law. To make sure buyers have time to read everything and back out if they don’t feel they are getting what they think.

There is also an expectation in law that what you are advertising is not materially different than what's being provided. I wouldn't be surprised to see Disney lose in court due to sales practices if that ever came about.

Just because something is in a contract doesn't mean it is legal.

 

[Sandisw]

There is also an expectation in law that what you are advertising is not materially different than what's being provided. I wouldn't be surprised to see Disney lose in court due to sales practices if that ever came about.

Just because something is in a contract doesn't mean it is legal.

But I have never had a DVC person tell me anything more than Just that you are eligible for perks and one of them…at that time…was the AP.

I would agree if it was buried in fine print but every time I have talked to sales people about things, it’s always been with words right now, currently. etc.

Sorry, but no one buys DVC without being clearly given the terms of perks and while I agree that something in that is illegal and it would not stand up, and nothing regarding perks is hidden or kept secret from any buyer. I have never seen any advertisement that is deceptive and promises them to buyers.

Simply don’t agree that someone gets to buy, knows the rules, clearly signs, and then wants them changed later. I do not see Disney ever losing this one if it came down to it in court.

IIRC, there is even language in FL Timeshare law that discusses incidental benefits and the rules regarding them.

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

But I have never had a DVC person tell me anything more than Just that you are eligible for perks and one of them…at that time…was the AP.

I would agree if it was buried in fine print but every time I have talked to sales people about things, it’s always been with words right now, currently. etc.

Sorry, but no one buys DVC without being clearly given the terms of perks and while I agree that something in that is illegal and it would not stand up, and nothing regarding perks is hidden or kept secret from any buyer. I have never seen any advertisement that is deceptive and promises them to buyers.

Simply don’t agree that someone gets to buy, knows the rules, clearly signs, and then wants them changed later. I do not see Disney ever losing this one if it came down to it in court.

IIRC, there is even language in FL Timeshare law that discusses incidental benefits and the rules regarding them.

I think that would address the discount on the passes not the complete non existence of the APs.

 

[New Mouse]

But I have never had a DVC person tell me anything more than Just that you are eligible for perks and one of them…at that time…was the AP.

I would agree if it was buried in fine print but every time I have talked to sales people about things, it’s always been with words right now, currently. etc.

Sorry, but no one buys DVC without being clearly given the terms of perks and while I agree that something in that is illegal and it would not stand up, and nothing regarding perks is hidden or kept secret from any buyer. I have never seen any advertisement that is deceptive and promises them to buyers.

Simply don’t agree that someone gets to buy, knows the rules, clearly signs, and then wants them changed later. I do not see Disney ever losing this one if it came down to it in court.

IIRC, there is even language in FL Timeshare law that discusses incidental benefits and the rules regarding them.

I've heard plenty of deceptive practices from DVC staff when trying to close a sale or lure in a prospective buyer as have many on these boards.

Look at the point chart reallocation fiasco.

 

[Sandisw]

I think that would address the discount on the passes not the complete non existence of the APs.

If you read the documents carefully, it says no incidental benefit is guaranteed and can cease to exist at any time.

They don’t even have to have a membership perks program. It specifically mentions these can go away because they are agreements with a third party. I realize others disagree.

 

[Sandisw]

I've heard plenty of deceptive practices from DVC staff when trying to close a sale or lure in a prospective buyer as have many on these boards.

Look at the point chart reallocation fiasco.

Agree to disagree on sales tactics And what is deceptive and what is given to buyers in black and white.

 

[Skywalker3]

DH and I are both pretty pessimistic and very cynical. I tend to expect the worst case scenario most of the time. So we bought DVC knowing no perks were guaranteed, and I understand that. We didn't buy in for perks. We also didn't buy direct, and didn't really listen to any sales pitch.
But, even in my pessimistic mind, I truly never thought all AP sales would totally go away for everyone (DVC or not. I know Florida residents still have options). We are willing to pay the higher, regular price for APs, no DVC discount, if they'd just sell them.
WE've been going to Disney fairly regularly since 2000, and have seen lots of ups and downs for perks, discounts, prices, all of it, so I get this will most likely be temporary. Just hope APs will come back as soon as possible!

 

[New Mouse]

They don’t even have to have a membership perks program. It specifically mentions these can go away because they are agreements with a third party. I realize others disagree.

They do based off of how they use it as a sales tactic.

I can't sell you a Maserati and then put a Ford engine inside it and tell you it was In the contact so too bad.

 

[Sandisw]

They do based off of how they use it as a sales tactic.

I can't sell you a Maserati and then put a Ford engine inside it and tell you it was In the contact so too bad.

Correct, but if you sell me that car, and when I go to sign to buy it, it says you can swap out the engine before I pick it up and I know that, and agree to buy it from you, I can’t complain later when I have issues.

Sorry, we just don’t agree on this and never will.

Now, the lawsuit in CA regarding the AP there has merit in my book because while it did say it was subject to park availability, it did not say that was based on Disney deciding to offer those spots to others, IMO, that was and is deceptive.


ETA: Here is what is published on WDW website when you go to order the DVD…so they don’t appear to be hiding anything when advertising them exactly for what they are.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I'm not ecstatic about AP sales having been suspended. Luckily I still have a valid pass that can be renewed. Having said that, I've never had the understanding that DVC membership comes with the right to purchase reduced-cost tickets, APs, or any other perks for that matter. The DVC literature has always contained disclaimers indicating member perks and add-ons are not guaranteed. Disney changes offerings all of the time.

I do hope that Disney begins selling annual passes again and that there is a program for DVC members to get it at a reduced rate.

 

[Madame]

I'm not ecstatic about AP sales having been suspended. Luckily I still have a valid pass that can be renewed. Having said that, I've never had the understanding that DVC membership comes with the right to purchase reduced-cost tickets, APs, or any other perks for that matter. The DVC literature has always contained disclaimers indicating member perks and add-ons are not guaranteed. Disney changes offerings all of the time.

I do hope that Disney begins selling annual passes again and that there is a program for DVC members to get it at a reduced rate.

We’re not talking exclusively about discounted APs. We’re consumers of a product which encourages spending significant amounts of our vacation time at WDW - locks us in.

We bought into the Disney lifestyle, so it’s not unreasonable to lament a ticket offering which allows some of us to effectively enjoy that product. I don’t think anyone in this thread has mentioned perks (i.e. discounted - can we really call it that anymore anyway? - APs).

 

[tim494]

Legal language is what it is. I think the language is more useful for them to discontinue perks and add perks as things change over the life of the resorts.

I do think it is unrealistic for DVC to expect to continue selling well without perks. So if AP discounts are gone I would expect some different perks to show up.

Yes the reps always tell you the perks are discretionary and to buy on the lifestyle argument, but they always tell you about the current perks. If the perks weren’t needed for sales and customer satisfaction, they would have never started them.

 

[sheilafri]

Correct, but if you sell me that car, and when I go to sign to buy it, it says you can swap out the engine before I pick it up and I know that, and agree to buy it from you, I can’t complain later when I have issues.

Sorry, we just don’t agree on this and never will.

Now, the lawsuit in CA regarding the AP there has merit in my book because while it did say it was subject to park availability, it did not say that was based on Disney deciding to offer those spots to others, IMO, that was and is deceptive.


ETA: Here is what is published on WDW website when you go to order the DVD…so they don’t appear to be hiding anything when advertising them exactly for what they are.

View attachment 656119

I haven’t followed the CA case closely, but I do wonder if it was a factor in suspending AP sales in Florida. They are different states, but still seems like they may want to avoid a copycat suit or at least minimize damages if one is filed anyway.